PipeChat Digest #1795 - Tuesday, January 30, 2001
 
Re: 16' full length en chamades
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
False and Misleading Organ Advertising (X-Post)
  by "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net>
Re: 21 1/3 and 16' full length en chamades
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: I'm going to visit Florida Feb 12-24  any tips?
  by "Nelson Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net>
June
  by "oj" <owenj@bigpond.com>
Johann Christoph Bach
  by "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Re: Johann Christoph Bach
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
RE: 16' full length en chamades
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re: 16' full length en chamades
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Johann Christoph Bach
  by "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Dupre Editions of Bach Works
  by "Stan Guy" <texstan@earthlink.net>
Re: Scale 40 vs Scale 60
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
RE:  16' full length en chamades
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re: 16' full length en chamades
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Re: 16' full length en chamades
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: 16' full length en chamades
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Scale 40 vs Scale 60
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: 16' full length en chamades From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:00:07 -0800   At 04:37 PM 1/29/2001 -0500, you wrote: >a =BD-length 16-foot chamade sounds the same as a full-length? If yes, then >what's the point of having a real full-length? Because it looks good?<snip>   Welcome to Remedial Acoustical Phenomena 1A, which should be a required=20 course for all organists.   The FULL length resonators will support the note's FUNDAMENTAL, whereas=20 HALF length will support only the second harmonic and above. Reeds with=20 FULL length resonators will display a considerably louder fundamental in=20 relation to harmonics.   While we're on the subject, (although I think it has been covered here),=20 full length resonators or pipe bodies really aren't...they're=20 half-wavelength. What a reed's resonator really does is also act as an=20 acoustic transformer to couple the very low mechanical impedance of the=20 reed to the very high mechanical impedance of the atmosphere. This=20 coupling effect works fine down to half wavelength, where the pressure=20 maxima at the reed tongue is accompanied at the same itme by a pressure=20 minima at the "horn's" mouth, or end of the pipe.   Some loud chorus reeds are made "harmonic" (a misnomer) by making them true= =20 full wavelength resonators, wherein a pressure maxima is achieved both at=20 the tongue AND the mouth at the same time. Such examples provide for an=20 even louder fundamental, and can be MOST...uh...persuasive! Thus, at 16'=20 pitch, a full wavelength resonator would be 32' long...approximately. Tune= =20 for best smoke, as always. Another misconception that many organ people=20 have is that it is LENGTH that determines pitch, when it is not...it's AIR= =20 MASS. This was proven for all time in the 20th century, especially in the= =20 design of bass-reflex and resonant port loudspeakers. The size of the box= =20 doesn't matter, but the AMOUNT of air inside it does. In the organ field,= =20 this was known around the end of the 19th century. Robert Hope-Jones had=20 developed "bass cubes" that were merely a box of any given shape loosely=20 coupled to a wind supply. John Compton, of course, parlayed this idea into= =20 a somewhat compact "ocarina" device known as the Compton Cube, most useful= =20 where space is limited.   Many organ wags bemoan the high cost of good lumber in making huge scaled=20 32' pipes, when really all they need is a big BOX! Sure, big tall pipes=20 are more impressive (to some), but it's the SOUND that counts.   There'll be a quiz on Friday.   DeserTBoB          
(back) Subject: False and Misleading Organ Advertising (X-Post) From: "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:33:20 -0800   While browsing through the February issue of the TAO today I noticed some deceptive advertising on Johannus' advertisement on page 23 (gasp!).   The last few weeks I have been preparing my 10 minute long star event (illustrated talk w/posters) on "Advertising: Proceed With Caution", so I couldn't help pointing this one out.   What I am referring to is on page 23, the ad for the $9,995 Opus 10 organ "Jubilee Offer" (which looks great). Only when one looks very close do they see that the actual organ being shown is an Opus 20, not the Opus 10 that carries the cheap price. The FINE PRINT to the left of the bottom of the bench says "opus 20".   After doing all of the star event work I could hardly resist pointing this out. Although this ad probably won't make it to the 20/20 investigative desk like the "Uplight" ads did, now you know before you RUSH out to buy this organ :-)   Have a great day! (I sure did, we got out of school at 9:30 and probably won't have school tomorrow (Tuesday) either (I hope we don't) Great time to practice the organ!!!!)   Paul Soulek, 15  
(back) Subject: Re: 21 1/3 and 16' full length en chamades From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:39:45 -0500   The latest issue of Tracker shows a small Spanish cabinet organ with the enchamade staring the organist right in the face. Betchyabygollywow!   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: I'm going to visit Florida Feb 12-24 any tips? From: "Nelson Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:54:02 -0500   The three pairs of long underwear don't come off till June around here. Fla's not cold! > 1) The Tampa Theatre with its 3m12r Wurli is always a crowd-pleaser. Movies > are nightly and more on weekends. Call first to confirm. > > 2) Bring a warm coat. Fla's still cold. > > Rick      
(back) Subject: June From: "oj" <owenj@bigpond.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:58:17 +1100   "JUNE" George Wright include this tune in one of latest cd's.   It is quite catchy. I heard it elsewhere, at the end of a Canadian movie = (I think) about bears. It was played by an orchestra in a slow tempo- very beautiful.   Has anyone heard of this melody and where can I get a copy.   Thanks   Owen in OZ    
(back) Subject: Johann Christoph Bach From: "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:34:27 -0500 (EST)     There are two Johan Christoph Bach composers:   1. older brother of J. S. Bach; 22 Febg 1671, Erfurt - 25 Aug 1693, Arnstadt   2. son of J. S. Bach, whose complete (?) name was Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach (21 June 1732, Leipzig - 26 Jan 1796, Bueckeberg)   Kalmus publishes a colelction of chorale preludes by one or the other. They are very short, relatively simple pieces, generally countrapuntal. Can anyone establish which of the two above J. C. Bachs wrote these pieces?   Thanx. Cordially,   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA   (The Guy Who "Cant Wait" For Pitchers and Catchers To Report, Including Jamie Moyer)    
(back) Subject: Re: Johann Christoph Bach From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:41:40 -0500   funny.......   the ONLY Johann Christoph Bach I have was born on December 8th, 1642, and died on March 31st, 1703. He was the uncle of the "great" J. S. Bach. I don't know of any other J. C. Bachs......   Carlo    
(back) Subject: RE: 16' full length en chamades From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:46:28 EST   DeserTBob writes:     >Welcome to Remedial Acoustical Phenomena 1A, which should be a required >course for all organists.<<   I take it that "Here endeth the lesson." OK, sign me up as I have room = for an elective. Don't know if I'll be ready for the Friday quiz. How many = cuts do you get in this class?   But now an after class question, seriously. This is not a challenge but = an effort to fully understand the statement about mass vs length. If I = follow your analogy and I probably have it confused, am I to understand that an = 8' flue of say, scale 40, would be shorter in length than an 8' flue at scale =   60, assuming they are the same voice, say a Great Principal? Have I = chased the wrong academic rabbit here as the volume in 40 scale would be greater than in the 60?   Help me here, professor.   Jim Pitts Class of '05  
(back) Subject: Re: 16' full length en chamades From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:01:14 EST   In a message dated 1/29/01 10:47:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Wurlibird1@aol.com writes:   << But now an after class question, seriously. This is not a challenge but = an effort to fully understand the statement about mass vs length. If I = follow your analogy and I probably have it confused, am I to understand that an = 8' flue of say, scale 40, would be shorter in length than an 8' flue at = scale 60, assuming they are the same voice, say a Great Principal? Have I = chased the wrong academic rabbit here as the volume in 40 scale would be greater =   than in the 60? >>   A good way to understand this concept is to look in a chamber (or inside a =   case) where there are strings and Diapasons (Principals). Compare the = lengths of the skinny strings to the fatter foundations. Now lets think about cone =   tuning just to make it even more complicated.   Alan B   Alan B  
(back) Subject: Re: Johann Christoph Bach From: "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:05:56 -0500 (EST)   My thanks to Carlo, who has opened the door toward my answer. > > the ONLY Johann Christoph Bach I have was born on December 8th, 1642, = and > died on March 31st, 1703. He was the uncle of the "great" J. S. Bach.   Not quite. The J. C. Bach to whom Carlo refers was a son of Heinrich Bach (1615 - 1692), who was a brother of Christoph Bach (1613 - 1661); thus Carlo's J.C. Bach was a first cousin with J. S. Bach's father Ambrosius. He is yet different from either of the J. C. Bachs I asked about.   HOWEVER, Carlo led me to my answer! _Baker's Biographical Dictionary_ refers to "44 Chorale Preludes" for organ, the title of the Kalmus publication I have. So thanx to Carlo for his help.   My, but the Bach family is complex!   Cordially,   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA    
(back) Subject: Dupre Editions of Bach Works From: "Stan Guy" <texstan@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:19:30 -0600   The Marcel Dupre Editions of Bach are for sale on eBay. To see them either search seller: "texstan@earthlink.net" or put "organ music" in the title line. The Dupre edition of Liszt works is also there.   Best Regards,   Stan    
(back) Subject: Re: Scale 40 vs Scale 60 From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:38 EST   Fill both theoretical tubes with water. Dump each into an equal-sized container. Compare. Voila! (viola?)  
(back) Subject: RE: 16' full length en chamades From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:20:48 EST   Alan B writes:     >A good way to understand this concept is to look in a chamber (or inside = a >case) where there are strings and Diapasons (Principals). Compare the lengths >of the skinny strings to the fatter foundations. Now lets think about = cone >tuning just to make it even more complicated.<<     Sounds vaguely familiar - refer to your text. Don't have one yet, my = grant check has not been released by the Registrar's office and the bookstore = won't take my check.   But that's OK, Alan, I follow your thought here. With regard to cone = tuning, I have no first hand experience with it but previous discussion on list regarding the subject, I can see where you are going with the method and = its effect. I'm not ready for prime time in cone tuning.   Just as one gets bored with subjects on this and other lists, something profound surfaces which makes one think and ultimately learn. That's the only reason I subscribe here and it has been quite beneficial.   Thanks to all who take time to help neophytes learn more about pipes.   Jim Pitts  
(back) Subject: Re: 16' full length en chamades From: <JKVDP@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:01:34 EST   In a message dated 01-01-29 20:14:03 EST, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << John Compton, of course, parlayed this idea into a somewhat compact "ocarina" device known as the Compton Cube, most = useful where space is limited. Many organ wags bemoan the high cost of good lumber in making huge scaled =   32' pipes, when really all they need is a big BOX! Sure, big tall pipes are more impressive (to some), but it's the SOUND that counts. >>   Are any builders using this device today? Examples - - - - Jerry  
(back) Subject: Re: 16' full length en chamades From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:49:42 -0800   Nope, and most of the cubes have been replaced with pipes or electronics. Holtkamp built a few, but they weren't really successful.   Cheers,   Bud   JKVDP@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 01-01-29 20:14:03 EST, desertbob@rglobal.net writes: > > << John Compton, of course, parlayed this idea into > a somewhat compact "ocarina" device known as the Compton Cube, most = useful > where space is limited. > > Many organ wags bemoan the high cost of good lumber in making huge = scaled > 32' pipes, when really all they need is a big BOX! Sure, big tall = pipes > are more impressive (to some), but it's the SOUND that counts. >> > > Are any builders using this device today? Examples - - - - > Jerry > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: RE: 16' full length en chamades From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:07:28 -0800   At 10:46 PM 1/29/2001 -0500, you wrote: >am I to understand that an 8' flue of say, scale 40, would be shorter in >length than an 8' flue at scale 60, assuming they are the same voice, say =   >a Great Principal?<snip>   Well, as scale "slenderized", harmonic production increases, thus making the former principal somewhat "stringy'. But, yes, the thinner pipe will be longer for the same note. Audsley (and many others) documented this well, but refused to speculate as to why.   dB    
(back) Subject: Re: Scale 40 vs Scale 60 From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:48:27 EST   In a message dated 1/29/01 11:20:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes:   << Fill both theoretical tubes with water. Dump each into an equal-sized container. Compare. Voila! (viola?) >>   I hear my favorite meteorologist Loyd Linsey Young: "Science!"   AAB