PipeChat Digest #2192 - Wednesday, July 4, 2001
 
RE: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Re: Allen Renaissance
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by <PEsch8@aol.com>
Re: Allen Renaissance
  by "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
RE: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by "Dan Gawthrop" <Gawthrop@dunstanhouse.com>
Video systems
  by "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net>
Speaker Decay (was: Re: Allen Renaissance)
  by "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net>
Re: speakers
  by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net>
Re: Speaker Decay (was: Re: Allen Renaissance)
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Allen Renaissance
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
The One That Everybody Wishes Would Go AWAY (grin)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Sibelius help (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Rodgers (Question to list) From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 03:02:35 -0700 (PDT)   What ever is stashed inside the consoles, all I know is that I much prefer Rodgers to Allen organs. I think they simply sound better.   The Question I pose to the list is as follows: If you were offered a four manual Rodgers (or Allen, if you prefer), or a two manual tracker, which one would you prefer. Don't talk about space or acoustics. This is simply a general question.   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:17:48 EDT   In a message dated 7/4/01 6:03:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes:   << If you were offered a four manual Rodgers (or Allen, if you prefer), or a two manual tracker, which one would you prefer. >> There's no way you can generalize a "two-manual" tracker. It would depend = on the builder and the spec. Some are wonderful, others not. Likewise it = might depend on the intended use -- home or church. Assuming the right builder = and an adequate stoplist, I'd definitely take the tracker. I have a 2m Rodgers = in my apartment, simply because that's all that will fit in the small space = and the price was right. It is perfectly adequate for my needs.   DudelK Washington, DC  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Renaissance From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 20:14:17 +0800   Mice, silverfish, humidity, poling voice coils, spiders in a comfortable home between voice coil and magnet, etc. etc. etc. Bob E.   CVStanford@aol.com wrote: > > Speakers wearing out... > > that is a new one for me............ > > how do they "wear out"......I would be curious to know????? >    
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: <PEsch8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:53:39 EDT     --part1_9b.175e707b.28746bd3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I would choose the tracker, any day. Paul   --part1_9b.175e707b.28746bd3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#000080" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><B>I would choose the = tracker, any day. <BR>Paul </B></FONT></HTML>   --part1_9b.175e707b.28746bd3_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Renaissance From: "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:09:05 -0400       On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:08:23 EDT CVStanford@aol.com writes: > Speakers wearing out... > > that is a new one for me............ > > how do they "wear out"......I would be curious to know????? > > Robert! > The speaker cones ( usually made of paper) simply break down due to movement fatigue, and simple age.     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.  
(back) Subject: RE: Rodgers (Question to list) From: "Dan Gawthrop" <Gawthrop@dunstanhouse.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:25:31 -0400   > The Question I pose to the list is as follows: > If you were offered a four manual Rodgers (or Allen, > if you prefer), or a two manual tracker, which one > would you prefer.   A no-brainer. The vastly greater tonal resources and much lower = maintenance costs of a four manual Allen would win the contest without a second = thought. It's really not even a contest.   Dan Gawthrop    
(back) Subject: Video systems From: "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:42:16 -0400   OK ladies and gentlemen, it's nice to know that everyone has seen a video = system and can tell this guy where they had the cameras pointed, etc., but = unfortunately it did not answer his question, I don't think?   What you propose to do will require some technical expertise, in that you = are looking at a two way system, you want to see them and you want them to = see you. I think if you had a choice of the two you would want them to = see you first.   You have some serious major hurdles to overcome with this (actually very = good) idea.   Video is an up-close medium so depending how far the choir is from the = video monitors, it will have to be a large monitor. The monitors will = have to be out of sight of the congregation or it will be a huge = distraction.   Forget Sams Club, you need (A) good CCD camera(s) with a wide angle lens, = and extreme low light capability, and auto iris and auto gain. The Gain = of a camera is something that electronically cranks up the picture in low = light. A good camera will see you in candle light, Anything else will be useless. You will need a good wide = angle lens because you need to have the camera close to you or your = resolution and imaging capability will drop off at logarithmic proportions = as the distance increases from the camera to the subject (you). And they need to see you which is the whole idea   As for the choir, the monitors will have to be pretty large, the average = 13 inch monitor will not cut it unless you have a number of them rather = close to the choir. As far as you watching them... it's going to get = pretty crowded at the console with more than one monitor and to do more than one camera on the choir, you'll need a = switching system or a rack of monitors. This will really effect your = "night vision", and it will get pretty warm too!     So, do yourself a huge favor and find a cctv (closed circuit TV) company = (or three) and seek some competent advise on what your expectations of the = system are and what the limitations and the cost will be. I think the = mirrors will start to look pretty good when it's all said and done (at least for them seeing you)   Wayne Grauel Eminent USA www.eminent-usa.com    
(back) Subject: Speaker Decay (was: Re: Allen Renaissance) From: "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 08:45:06 -0500   Recently we worked on an instrument with a couple Walker Technical 32' = stops that sounded horrible. Upon opening the speaker cabinets, the foam around the edge of the speaker had deteriorated, and the noise was the cone of = the speaker hitting the metal frame. These were only about 10 years old, so we're wondering how many more of these we will encounter in coming = years... Brent Johnson The Organ Web Ring http://www.organwebring.com The Organ Classifieds http://www.organclassifieds.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Allen Renaissance     > > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:08:23 EDT CVStanford@aol.com writes: > > Speakers wearing out... > > > > that is a new one for me............ > > > > how do they "wear out"......I would be curious to know????? > > > > Robert! > > > The speaker cones ( usually made of paper) simply break down due to > movement fatigue, and simple age. > > > Douglas A. Campbell > Skaneateles, NY > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: speakers From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 10:03:55 -0700   I have worked on three Allen organs of the mid 70's and all three have had =   the foam speaker surrounds deteriorate on the big woofers. Luckily, I = have been able to rescue them with the help of Parts Express replacement = surrounds.   I believe this discussion of speaker surrounds was on one of the lists recently.   Paul R. Swank   you wrote: >Advent Speakers of 70s vintage had the foam attached to the cone = deteriorate. >The sound produced was intolerable! >http://www.speakersupply.com/repair.htm >Stan    
(back) Subject: Re: Speaker Decay (was: Re: Allen Renaissance) From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:11:43 EDT   In a message dated 7/4/01 9:45:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brentmj@swbell.net writes:   << the foam around the edge of the speaker had deteriorated, >>   Believe it or not, this is actually caused by a fungus. It is a fairly = common problem. The part around the edge of the cone is called the surround. The surround can be made of pleated paper, doped cloth, butyl rubber, non-foam =   synthetic or foam. When the surround deteriorates it allows the voice coil = to bang into the magnet. The voice coil is the electrical part of the = speaker, it is a coil of enamel coated wire wound around a thin aluminum (or = 'Kapton') bobbin. Once this happens it is usually better to recone the speaker or replace it entirely rather than replace the surround as the voice coil has =   been damaged. Modern speakers are made from a wide variety of materials = that will probably hold up to the elements better than speakers made in the = past. Of course, cheap bottom end speakers are still made from the same old junk =   and won't hold up.   Cheers:   Alan B  
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:19:37 EDT   In a message dated 7/4/01 5:03:35 AM EST, jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com = writes:   > > The Question I pose to the list is as follows: > If you were offered a four manual Rodgers (or Allen, > if you prefer), or a two manual tracker, which one > would you prefer. Don't talk about space or > acoustics. My answer is that I would want to know the specs of the tracker before I = made this choice. A well-designed, well built 2 manual tracker might be = preferred >>IF<< it is a well-rounded spec that would allow for a reasonable representation of ALL periods of the organ literature realm to be played. = I am not a 17th century specialist and would want ANY organ that I play to = be able to play Howells, Vierne, Franck, and American composers AS WELL AS = Bach, Buxdehude, and others like Mendelsohn, et al.   Would I be allowed to design the 4-manual (preferrably Rodgers)? or do I = have to take an off-the-shelf instrument?   Rick in VA  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Renaissance From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:24:17 EDT   In a message dated 7/4/01 7:23:10 AM EST, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:   > Speakers wearing out... > > > > that is a new one for me............ > > > > how do they "wear out"......I would be curious to know????? > > > The do indeed wear out. The materials from which they are made become both =   stiff and brittle with age and no longer accurately transform the electrically-induced excursions into the audible sound waves intended by = the builder (maker). The Allen at the church where I play has 16 cabinets full = of "worn-out" speakers, and over the last few years the sound coming out of = them has become quite harsh and distorted.   Rick in VA  
(back) Subject: The One That Everybody Wishes Would Go AWAY (grin) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 07:26:06 -0700   Do we REALLY have to get all wrapped around the axle about this AGAIN?   It TOTALLY depends on the circumstances of the individual or church ... space available, funds available, what kind of music program, etc. etc. etc.   I could have a WHOLE lot of Allen or Copeman Hart for what we're contemplating spending on a rebuilt 20-stop pipe organ; the church has the money; they want a pipe organ; we're getting a pipe organ. End of discussion. An electronic organ as a PERMANENT instrument has NEVER been a consideration, from the moment I walked in the door, and before. Oh, I dallied with the combo idea briefly, but nah.   Now, if for some reason that 20 stops got reduced to the original 11 stops of Moller that we bought last January, that would be another story, and I'd rethink an electronic or a combo organ.   In ANOTHER situation, I accompanied a really FUN music program on a three-manual analog Rodgers, and it was quite satisfactory ... it was an historic church with absolutely NO space for a pipe organ, had never HAD one, and no, a 3-stop positive wouldn't have cut it. They had a large choir that did big oratorios and cantatas.   Folks, the battle is already lost, in case you haven't noticed ... it's a VERY rare small or medium-sized church that will plunk down upwards of $200K for 20 stops of rebuilt work, or upwards of $400K for 20 stops of new work ... I have nothing against small pipe organs ... I'm getting one, God willing ... but much below 15-20 stops REALLY limits what you can do, at least in the kind of service I play. And they're NOT going to change the service just to accommodate a one-manual English chamber organ of half a dozen stops (grin).   Cheers,   BBTB    
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:16:51 -0700 (PDT)   All right, folks: The tracker would be about 20-25 ranks, the 4-manual electronic would have the equivalent of about 110 ranks with a complete solo division as well. Forget about questions of space and such. Just decide your instrument of preference. Simple question. Let's begin again.   --- RMaryman@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/4/01 5:03:35 AM EST, > jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > The Question I pose to the list is as follows: > > If you were offered a four manual Rodgers (or > Allen, > > if you prefer), or a two manual tracker, which > one > > would you prefer. Don't talk about space or > > acoustics. > My answer is that I would want to know the specs of > the tracker before I made > this choice. A well-designed, well built 2 manual > tracker might be preferred > >>IF<< it is a well-rounded spec that would allow > for a reasonable > representation of ALL periods of the organ > literature realm to be played. I > am not a 17th century specialist and would want ANY > organ that I play to be > able to play Howells, Vierne, Franck, and American > composers AS WELL AS Bach, > Buxdehude, and others like Mendelsohn, et al. > > Would I be allowed to design the 4-manual > (preferrably Rodgers)? or do I have > to take an off-the-shelf instrument? > > Rick in VA > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Sibelius help (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:01:31 -0700   Summer is the only time I have to stop, catch my breath, and learn new things. Last summer, I learned Sibelius; this summer, I need to learn how to import Sibelius files into WORDPERFECT.   Sibelius is set up to import into WORD, but WORD won't bookletize; in any case, the Rector won't allow things to be done for the church in anything but WORDPERFECT. Nope, not gonna go THERE (grin) ... that's simply the way life is.   So ... doing it as a bitmap looks terrible; I haven't gotten any further than that. Sibelius tech help tried to explain to me how to do it as PDF files (I think), but I got totally lost.   Is there a reasonably SIMPLE way to do it that a 'puter NON-genius can find his way through? I've got some big liturgy-cum-music booklets coming up, and I'm tired of manually pasting the hard copies of the music into the text booklet master.   If anybody has the time to do step-by-step hand-holding, I'd really appreciate it. I CAN follow step-by-step instructions (I THINK) ...   THANKS!   Bud-by-the-Beach    
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:57:27 -0400   I would take the 4-manual Rodgers. I'm not a purist, so I don't care about real pipes. A 4-manual Rodgers would be much more versatile than a = 2-manual tracker.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:58:46 EDT     --part1_be.16d1ae52.2874a546_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/4/01 6:02:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes:     > The Question I pose to the list is as follows: If you were offered a = four > manual Rodgers (or Allen, if you prefer), or a two manual tracker, which = one > would you prefer.   I would take the two-manual tracker, because I not only prefer the live sound, but also need the visual contact for inspiration. As I play I = think about the various shapes of pipes making a particular sound, and in = combining stops consider their construction and how they "work" together. In addition, at time when I'm not playing the organ I like to just look = inside and marvel at the workmanship, time and love that went in to making the instrument. This is especially exciting if the instrument is either old = or built by people I know personally. I also want an instrument that I can make adjustments to myself and have the enjoyment of tuning myself. = Every time a pipe speaks, I marvel at the beauty.   For me, there is just no substitute.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_be.16d1ae52.2874a546_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/4/01 6:02:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The Question I = pose to the list is as follows: &nbsp;If you were offered a four <BR>manual Rodgers (or Allen, if you prefer), or a two manual tracker, = which one <BR>would you prefer. &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I would take the two-manual tracker, because I not only prefer the = live <BR>sound, but also need the visual contact for inspiration. = &nbsp;&nbsp;As I play I think <BR>about the various shapes of pipes making a particular sound, and in = combining <BR>stops consider their construction and how they "work" together. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;In <BR>addition, at time when I'm not playing the organ I like to just look = inside <BR>and marvel at the workmanship, time and love that went in to making = the <BR>instrument. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This is especially exciting if the = instrument is either old or <BR>built by people I know personally. &nbsp;&nbsp;I also want an = instrument that I can <BR>make adjustments to myself and have the enjoyment of tuning myself. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Every <BR>time a pipe speaks, I marvel at the beauty. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>For me, there is just no substitute. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_be.16d1ae52.2874a546_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:03:57 EDT     --part1_7b.170cb9d5.2874a67d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/4/01 7:18:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DudelK@aol.com =   writes:     > There's no way you can generalize a "two-manual" tracker. It would = depend on > the builder and the spec.   This is another reason I would prefer a tracker as opposed to a = substitute. Pipe organs are all different and unique. Bad ones can be improved, = good ones can be altered to be made better.   I think the question held that insuation that the insruments would be of "equal" quality.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_7b.170cb9d5.2874a67d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/4/01 7:18:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DudelK@aol.com <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">There's no way you = can generalize a "two-manual" tracker. It would depend on <BR>the builder and the spec.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>This is another reason I would prefer a tracker as opposed to a = substitute. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;Pipe organs are all different and unique. &nbsp;&nbsp;Bad ones = can be improved, good <BR>ones can be altered to be made better. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR> <BR>I think the question held that insuation that the insruments would be = of <BR>"equal" quality. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_7b.170cb9d5.2874a67d_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:06:27 EDT     --part1_6c.c84d758.2874a713_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/4/01 9:33:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gawthrop@dunstanhouse.com writes:     > A no-brainer. The vastly greater tonal resources and much lower = maintenance > costs of a four manual Allen would win the contest without a second = thought. > It's really not even a contest. >   I agree... definitely an indication of NO BRAINS>   BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA   Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding..... Believe me, I thought of using the same phrase in my response, but knew that some snert would jump on it!! = ;-)   Yours, Snert!!     Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_6c.c84d758.2874a713_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/4/01 9:33:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>Gawthrop@dunstanhouse.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A no-brainer. The = vastly greater tonal resources and much lower maintenance <BR>costs of a four manual Allen would win the contest without a second = thought. <BR>It's really not even a contest. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I agree... definitely an indication of NO BRAINS&gt; <BR> <BR>BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <BR> <BR>Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding..... &nbsp;&nbsp;Believe me, &nbsp;I = thought of using the <BR>same phrase in my response, but knew that some snert would jump on = it!! &nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR>Yours, <BR>Snert!! <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_6c.c84d758.2874a713_boundary--