PipeChat Digest #2194 - Wednesday, July 4, 2001
 
Re: HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!
  by "Stephen Barker" <steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Sibelius help (X-posted)
  by "Bill Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net>
Re: Allen vs. Rodgers vs. two manual trackers
  by <TheOrganst@aol.com>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: A "Fuller" key
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re:Speaker Decay
  by "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net>
Re: Rodgers (Question to list)
  by <ORGANUT@aol.com>
the eternal debate (X-posted from organchat, by request)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Fw: Allen Renaissance
  by "Carl & Grace Snip" <cgscissors@aztec-net.com>
Re:  A "Fuller" key
  by "Panning" <jpanning@cal-net.net>
RE: Allen Renaissance
  by "Dan Gawthrop" <Gawthrop@dunstanhouse.com>
Re: Allen Renaissance
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: A "Fuller" key
  by "V. David Barton" <vdbarton@erols.com>
Re:  A "Fuller" key
  by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY! From: "Stephen Barker" <steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:21:28 +0100   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00AD_01C104CF.49B49F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!As a tribute to all you Americans, Choral =3D Evensong on BBC Radio 3 (from Salisbury Cathedral, UK) thisafternoon had = =3D the Battle Hymn of the Republic as the hymn! Some of you may have heard = =3D of the Director of Music, Simon Lole, for his compositions. This guy =3D has a sense of humour!!   Steve Canterbury UK, listening to the Radio on the way home from work. (Some of us aren't lucky enough to have full time Church jobs!)     ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Russ Greene=3D20 To: PIPORG-L ; PipeChat=3D20 Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 9:07 PM Subject: HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!     I just want to wish all of our U.S. listmembers a happy Fourth of =3D July. I hope all your celebrations are exquisite. My family and I, proud = =3D Canadians all, will be watching "Pops Goes the Fourth" this evening to =3D celebrate with you.   Happy Independence Day,   Russ Greene=3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00AD_01C104CF.49B49F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>As a tribute to all you Americans, = =3D Choral Evensong=3D20 on BBC Radio 3 (from Salisbury Cathedral, UK) thisafternoon had the =3D Battle Hymn=3D20 of the Republic as the hymn!&nbsp; Some of you may have heard of the =3D Director of=3D20 Music, Simon Lole, for his compositions.&nbsp; This guy has a sense = of=3D20 humour!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Steve</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Canterbury UK, listening to the Radio = =3D on the way=3D20 home from work.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>(Some of us aren't lucky enough to = have =3D full time=3D20 Church jobs!)</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3Drggreene2@home.com = href=3D3D"mailto:rggreene2@home.com">Russ =3D Greene</A>=3D20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3DPIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu">PIPORG-L</A> ; <A=3D20 title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org =3D href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">PipeChat</A>=3D20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 04, 2001 = =3D 9:07=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> HAPPY INDEPENDENCE =3D DAY!</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3DHelvetica>I just want to wish all of our = =3D U.S.=3D20 listmembers a happy Fourth of July. I hope all your celebrations = are=3D20 exquisite. My family and I, proud Canadians all, will be watching =3D &#8220;Pops Goes=3D20 the Fourth&#8221; this evening to celebrate with you.<BR><BR>Happy =3D Independence=3D20 Day,<BR><BR>Russ Greene</FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00AD_01C104CF.49B49F80--    
(back) Subject: Re: Sibelius help (X-posted) From: "Bill Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 14:00:10 -0700     --Boundary_(ID_bxLf8RvygNERR6xK2qBwhw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT   At 09:01 AM 7/4/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Is there a reasonably SIMPLE way to do it that a 'puter NON-genius can >find his way through? I've got some big liturgy-cum-music booklets >coming up, and I'm tired of manually pasting the hard copies of the >music into the text booklet master.       Hi Bud - you may not remember me but I sent you a bunch of extra copies of =   church music a couple of years ago.   WordPerfect vs: Sibelius. Hmm. Well, one thing you might look at is a = 3rd party program called CLICKBOOK which will install itself as a virtual printer. When you want to print something from ANY program (like WordPerfect), you simply select this "printer". Then you can customize = how you want it printed; 2-sided, 4 up, 2 up, booklet, whatever.   Search on the WEB for CLICKBOOK and you will find it. It is pretty cheap ($50, maybe? been awhile) I use it all the time and it seems to work well for me. Nice thing about =   it is that it lets you do all the fancy stuff from ANY program at all under Windows.   Good luck at the Church-On-The-Shopping mall. One of these days I've got to get up there and hear you before I retire and move out of the area.   Bill   --Boundary_(ID_bxLf8RvygNERR6xK2qBwhw) Content-type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT   <html> <font size=3D3>At 09:01 AM 7/4/2001 -0700, you wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite>Is there a reasonably SIMPLE way = to do it that a 'puter NON-genius can<br> find his way through? I've got some big liturgy-cum-music booklets<br> coming up, and I'm tired of manually pasting the hard copies of the<br> music into the text booklet master.</blockquote><br><br> <br> </font>Hi Bud - you may not remember me but I sent you a bunch of extra copies of church music a couple of<br> years ago.<br><br> WordPerfect vs: Sibelius.&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; Well, one thing you might look at is a 3rd party program called CLICKBOOK<br> which will install itself as a virtual printer.&nbsp;&nbsp; When you want to print something from ANY program (like<br> WordPerfect), you simply select this &quot;printer&quot;.&nbsp; Then you can customize how you want it printed; 2-sided,<br> 4 up, 2 up, booklet, whatever.&nbsp; <br><br> Search on the WEB for CLICKBOOK and you will find it.&nbsp; It is pretty cheap ($50, maybe?&nbsp; been awhile)<br> I use it all the time and it seems to work well for me.&nbsp;&nbsp; Nice thing about it is that it lets you do all the<br> fancy stuff from ANY program at all under Windows.<br><br> Good luck at the Church-On-The-Shopping mall.&nbsp; One of these days I've got to get up there and hear you<br> before I retire and move out of the area.<br><br> Bill</html>   --Boundary_(ID_bxLf8RvygNERR6xK2qBwhw)--  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Rodgers vs. two manual trackers From: <TheOrganst@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:29:59 EDT     --part1_11.16a3e303.2874e4d7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Being the owner of 9 instruments right here in my own home I can safely = and competently comment on the above string. Each one of my instruments has = it's own unique character, sounds, touch, feel, smell, appearance etc. Each one = is capable of performing the music which it was designed to do best and that = in turn is the music that I play on each organ. Weather it be Classical, Baroque, Theatrical, or Romantic. I do not ask a particular organ to = emulate the impossible. However, most organs of any design can do = theatrical-popular music to a degree with very good if not very humorous results. The trick? It's not the organ. It's the organist. I understand the limit's of each instrument.   I have Pipe organs, Electronic organs and Reed organs. If I had to choose = one above the rest, it would be my 2 manual pipe organ. It's real, it goes = out of tune, it has a continuously changing character, and it thrills people = that come over to my house because it IS real.   My two cents. I'm now off to dust my collection.....again!   Kyle B. Irwin   --part1_11.16a3e303.2874e4d7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Being the owner of 9 = instruments right here in my own home I can safely and <BR>competently comment on the above string. Each one of my instruments = has it's <BR>own unique character, sounds, touch, feel, smell, appearance etc. Each = one is <BR>capable of performing the music which it was designed to do best and = that in <BR>turn is the music that I play on each organ. Weather it be Classical, <BR>Baroque, Theatrical, or Romantic. I do not ask a particular organ to = emulate <BR>the impossible. However, most organs of any design can do = theatrical-popular <BR>music to a degree with very good if not very humorous results. The = trick? <BR>It's not the organ. It's the organist. &nbsp;I understand the limit's = of each <BR>instrument. <BR> <BR>I have Pipe organs, Electronic organs and Reed organs. If I had to = choose one <BR>above the rest, it would be my 2 manual pipe organ. &nbsp;It's real, = it goes out <BR>of tune, it has a continuously changing character, and it thrills = people that <BR>come over to my house because it IS real. <BR> <BR>My two cents. I'm now off to dust my collection.....again! <BR> <BR>Kyle B. Irwin</FONT></HTML>   --part1_11.16a3e303.2874e4d7_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:31:55 -0700 (PDT)   Oh Rick, That sounds juicy! What a great idea! --- VEAGUE <dutchorgan@svs.net> wrote: > If I had my druthers, I'd druther take a 3-manual > Aeolean residence > organ -of about 25-30 ranks with cascading stops. It > would have to have > Crawford's sobbing tibias, sizzling strings, fat > strings, orchestral reeds > (to include trombone), and several > differently-voiced diapasons. A few > choice traps and percussions (including a glass > harp). > > Now where'd I put my druthers?! > > Rick > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:32:07 -0700 (PDT)   Oh Rick, That sounds juicy! What a great idea! --- VEAGUE <dutchorgan@svs.net> wrote: > If I had my druthers, I'd druther take a 3-manual > Aeolean residence > organ -of about 25-30 ranks with cascading stops. It > would have to have > Crawford's sobbing tibias, sizzling strings, fat > strings, orchestral reeds > (to include trombone), and several > differently-voiced diapasons. A few > choice traps and percussions (including a glass > harp). > > Now where'd I put my druthers?! > > Rick > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:33:59 -0700 (PDT)   D-flat major is the richest and most mellow key. The slow movement of the Saint-Saens organ symphony is in that key for good reason. JW --- "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> wrote: > I have always been "partial" (pardon the pun) to the > key of D Flat. It > just seems to me to have a "fuller" sound, more > majestic, rounder, etc. Is > this the imagination of an old man, or is there > something to the different > "feelings" evinced by the use of different keys? > > This question was brought to the fore for me > recently at the OHS > Convention, when the hymn tune "San Rocco" (in D > Flat) was used during the > final session of the conference. The tune is #253 > in The Hymnal 1982 > (Episcopal) in D Flat, and is used again in the > hymnal as #604 in the key > of C Major. > > To me, there is a difference in the sound of the two > keys, with the D Flat > more full. > > By the way, I can hardly wait for the CD's of the > OHS Convention, and am > hoping that this hymn will be included. The sound > of 350 people singing > this hymn (and mostly men at that), was wonderful. > > Paul R. Swank > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re:Speaker Decay From: "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:37:16 -0700   >Recently we worked on an instrument with a couple Walker Technical 32' stops that sounded horrible. Upon opening the speaker cabinets, the foam around the edge of the speaker had deteriorated, and the noise was the cone of = the speaker hitting the metal frame. These were only about 10 years old, so we're wondering how many more of these we will encounter in coming = years...     Odds are that nearly every speaker will require replacing at some time . . = ..   I have an AOB that has 46 speakers -- I got it when it was about 15 years old. Since then I have either replaced every 8" speaker or the foam surround rings on all the 12" and 15" speakers. The foam just breaks = down.   D    
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers (Question to list) From: <ORGANUT@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:53:40 EDT   In a message dated 07/04/2001 3:11:39 PM Central Daylight Time, dutchorgan@svs.net writes:   << f I had my druthers, I'd druther take a 3-manual Aeolean residence organ -of about 25-30 ranks with cascading stops. It would have to have Crawford's sobbing tibias, sizzling strings, fat strings, orchestral = reeds (to include trombone), and several differently-voiced diapasons. A few choice traps and percussions (including a glass harp). Now where'd I put my druthers?! Rick >> Right next to your pile of Gold Bullion, (to purchase this rare puppy) !   Phil L.  
(back) Subject: the eternal debate (X-posted from organchat, by request) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 16:28:15 -0700   >   (Regarding the longevity and maintenance of speakers)   > Hmmm ... I've never heard a thorough discussion of this before ... it > sounds to ME like IF you want to maintain an electronic instrument in > tip-top shape on a level AS CLOSE TO a good pipe organ as possible, > you're going to have maintenance costs approaching that of a pipe > organ, > presuming the pipe organ was well-built in the first place and had all > > new leather, etc. when it was installed. > > The average pipe organ will go anywhere from forty to a hundred years > without a major releathering ... if what's being said about speakers > is > generally accurate, that's 4-10 sets of speakers (and/or partial > replacements and/or re-coning, re-foaming, etc.) in the same amount of > time > (not that there ARE any hundred-year-old electronic organs at this > point), not to mention that electronic organ technology will be almost > > certainly be unrecognizable a hundred years from now. > > Hmmm ... I guess that's one point against electronics, and one point > for > ... speakers DO require maintenance/replacement; one WOULD have the > option of "trading up" periodically. > > But here's another point: we're really comparing prunes and persimmons > ... > the off-the-shelf, STOCK electronic organ IS considerably cheaper than > a > comparable pipe organ; BUT, for the most part, there's no such thing > as > an off-the-shelf, stock PIPE organ. True, some pipe builders build > small > instruments in series, with a couple of optional stops, to save on > engineering costs, but they're STILL hand-crafted one-of-a-kind, > nevertheless. > > The full-blown CUSTOM electronic organ, with EVERY note of EVERY stop > TOTALLY independent, voiceable, tuneable, etc., and with the necessary > > array of speakers and amps to approach the power, presence and spatial > > effect of a pipe organ, ALSO approaches the COST of a pipe organ. > You'll > get more stops, perhaps, but it'll take up almost as much ROOM, IF you > > build proper sound mixing chambers, etc. > > So we're REALLY not talking about the same animal, the tone producing > portion aside. > > If I want a new PIPE organ, it's going to be designed more-or-less > from > scratch, with EXACTLY the voices and scales I want, and be matched > EXACTLY to the church. > > Here's a cautionary note: IF electronic organ makers and installers > approached the manufacture and installation of THEIR instruments with > the SAME care as a fine pipe organ builder, this argument could get a > LOT more interesting (grin). But 99% of them DON'T, except for the > occasional custom organ, which forms a very small part of the total > output of ANY of the electronic organ makers. And the simple reason is > because THEN their costs WOULD be comparable to that of a good pipe > organ (grin), which would leave us back where we STARTED (chuckle) > > Cheers, > > Bud        
(back) Subject: Fw: Allen Renaissance From: "Carl & Grace Snip" <cgscissors@aztec-net.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:35:09 -0400     On July the first, Devon Hollingsworth posted the following:   " The funeral parlor organ you described was probably voiced to the = owner's liking. Having voiced several of these in people's homes (quite similar = in acoustics), it takes a lot of high frequency voicing to compensate for the dead rooms." - - quote ends.   titter...titter...snicker, snicker, snort, then an outright guffaw!!   Haw! Haw! Dead rooms in funeral parlors!!! That's a good one!!!   Stop it, you're killing me!   I'm laughin' so hard I'm dyin'!   LMBFBO... (laughing my bench-flattened behind off)   ...and as the ache in my ribcage subsides, I remember I have a serious question to ask:   Do Allen Renaissance models deliver the best sound if the speakers bounce their sound off of the ceiling, walls, or out of chambers? If this is the case, our congregatation has gone to some worthless trouble having an = Allen rep come to our church and "voice" our recently-acquired used Allen. I = was not present for any of the voicing sessions, but I heard no report from = any churchmembers hearing the Allen rep saying that the aiming of our speakers directly down the length of the sanctuary was not the optimum way to go. Our worship space has a high "A" frame design for its full length (seats about 400), and there's a fellowship hall directly behind the sanctuary = and open to it where overflow chairs can be set up.   Plans are afoot to re-do the entire podium-pulpit area, and I want to be sure that optimum speaker placement is included with the remodelling = plans.   cheers, all!   Carl Snip, catching up after several days away      
(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: "Panning" <jpanning@cal-net.net> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:10:04 -0500   Paul Swank wrote:   > I have always been "partial" (pardon the pun) to the key of D Flat. It > just seems to me to have a "fuller" sound, more majestic, rounder, etc. > Is this the imagination of an old man, or is there something to the > different "feelings" evinced by the use of different keys?   The perception of key signature, what some call "affective key characteristics", has interested me for a long time. I think that our = sense of the character or color of a key is largely informed by our knowledge of the character of the *music* written for that key, rather than any = inherent quality of the pitches composing that key's scale. With equal temperament, it can't come from the key itself: something written in Db and transposed up to D will have the same mathematic relationships between the notes of the scale.   The German poet Christian Schubart wrote about key colors in his "Ideen zu einer Aesthetik der Tonkunst." (1806). His description (in English) of the character of various keys can be found here:   http://www.wmich.edu/mus-theo/courses/keys.html   Of Db Major, Schubart says:   "A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, but it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be brought out in this key."   The idea of affective key characteristics seems somewhat related to the phenomenon called "synaesthesia", where the stimulation of one sense = causes a perception in another sense; music provoking the sensation of colors seems to be the most common.   By the way, Paul, do you have absolute ("perfect") pitch?   John A. Panning Lake City, Iowa      
(back) Subject: RE: Allen Renaissance From: "Dan Gawthrop" <Gawthrop@dunstanhouse.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:02:06 -0400   > Do Allen Renaissance models deliver the best sound if the speakers = bounce > their sound off of the ceiling, walls, or out of chambers?   Yes. Absolutely.   > If this is the case, our congregatation has gone to some > worthless trouble having an Allen rep come to our church > and "voice" our recently-acquired used Allen.   If you acquired a "used" Allen then it is unlikely to be a Renaissance model, as that line was only introduced in 1997. Earlier models, to my = ears, are somewhat less sensitive to this approach to speaker placement.   > I heard no report from any churchmembers hearing the Allen rep saying > that the aiming of our speakers directly down the length of the > sanctuary was not the optimum way to go.   Assuming you have an older model this makes sense, especially if the speakers are placed high up in your A-frame. My personal opinion is that nearly all digital instruments benefit from having listeners in a = reflected sound field, but Renaissance models benefit much more than earlier ones.   > Plans are afoot to re-do the entire podium-pulpit area, and > I want to be sure that optimum speaker placement is included > with the remodelling plans.   So how does the organ sound? If you're pleased with it, all is well. If it sounds at all harsh or aggressive you may want to experiment with other options.   Yours faithfully,   Dan Gawthrop    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Renaissance From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 08:28:18 +0800   Well that's what I inferred "poling voice coils". Been there! Bob Elms.   DEMPAR1@aol.com wrote: > > Don't forget deteriorating paper cones that let voice coils shift and = rub on the magnet until they go "poof". >    
(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: "V. David Barton" <vdbarton@erols.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:50:13 -0400   Of course, having written in 1806, Schubart couldn't possibly have had = equal temperament in mind, as that was still a number of decades off in the future. His remarks, though somewhat fanciful for my taste. could very reasonably apply to an instrument tuned to some unequal temperament. All keys sound alike (apart from pitch, of course) in equal temperament; it cannot be otherwise.     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Panning" <jpanning@cal-net.net> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 8:10 PM Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key     > Paul Swank wrote: > > > I have always been "partial" (pardon the pun) to the key of D Flat. = It > > just seems to me to have a "fuller" sound, more majestic, rounder, = etc. > > Is this the imagination of an old man, or is there something to the > > different "feelings" evinced by the use of different keys? > > The perception of key signature, what some call "affective key > characteristics", has interested me for a long time. I think that our sense > of the character or color of a key is largely informed by our knowledge = of > the character of the *music* written for that key, rather than any inherent > quality of the pitches composing that key's scale. With equal = temperament, > it can't come from the key itself: something written in Db and = transposed > up to D will have the same mathematic relationships between the notes of > the scale. > > The German poet Christian Schubart wrote about key colors in his "Ideen = zu > einer Aesthetik der Tonkunst." (1806). His description (in English) of = the > character of various keys can be found here: > > http://www.wmich.edu/mus-theo/courses/keys.html > > Of Db Major, Schubart says: > > "A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, = but > it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its > crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be = brought > out in this key." > > The idea of affective key characteristics seems somewhat related to the > phenomenon called "synaesthesia", where the stimulation of one sense causes > a perception in another sense; music provoking the sensation of colors > seems to be the most common. > > By the way, Paul, do you have absolute ("perfect") pitch? > > John A. Panning > Lake City, Iowa > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 20:53:24 -0700   I don't have perfect pitch, but I can sense a difference in the fullness = of the tone between a C Major chord and a D Flat Major chord. Maybe the aesthetic is in my mind, but for me, it is there. I agree that scientifically, when the organ has a transposer turned up one-half step, the relationships between notes are the same and a C Major chord becomes a =   D Flat Major chord. Somehow, the D Flat Major chord seems richer in tonal quality. Of course, =   all these aesthetic terms such as richness of tone, fullness of tone, are subjective.   you wrote:   >The perception of key signature, what some call "affective key >characteristics", has interested me for a long time. I think that our = sense >of the character or color of a key is largely informed by our knowledge = of >the character of the *music* written for that key, rather than any = inherent >quality of the pitches composing that key's scale. With equal = temperament, >it can't come from the key itself: something written in Db and transposed >up to D will have the same mathematic relationships between the notes of >the scale. > >The German poet Christian Schubart wrote about key colors in his "Ideen = zu >einer Aesthetik der Tonkunst." (1806). His description (in English) of = the >character of various keys can be found here: > >http://www.wmich.edu/mus-theo/courses/keys.html > >By the way, Paul, do you have absolute ("perfect") pitch? > >John A. Panning >Lake City, Iowa