PipeChat Digest #2196 - Thursday, July 5, 2001
 
Re: A "Fuller" key
  by "Jeffery Korns" <jakorns@home.com>
Re: A "Fuller" key
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
I'm just an old softy (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: A "Fuller" key
  by "Jeffery Korns" <jakorns@home.com>
Re: Two manual, 30-stop organ
  by "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net>
Re: A "Fuller" key
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: A "Fuller" key
  by <PHarri5833@aol.com>
A "fire-filled" Spanish organ!
  by <PHarri5833@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: "Jeffery Korns" <jakorns@home.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:16:56 -0500   Interesting discussion. Some friends and I were having a discussion about keys and noted that Virgil Fox did his arrangement of the Star Spangled Banner in D flat. J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>   > Not quite, John. > > Different keys do have different colors because of the > physical properties of how the overtones line up > depending on the temperament used in the tuning > process. Even in equal temperament, each key has it's > own color. E-flat sounds different than E major. and > there is a definite difference between D-flat and and > D major. People who don't have perfect pitch can hear > the difference. The Bach Prelude and Fugue in D major > would have a completely different color and sound when > played in D-flat. > > > The perception of key signature, what some call > > "affective key > > characteristics", has interested me for a long time. > > I think that our sense > > of the character or color of a key is largely > > informed by our knowledge of > > the character of the *music* written for that key, > > rather than any inherent > > quality of the pitches composing that key's scale. > > With equal temperament, > > it can't come from the key itself: something written > > in Db and transposed > > up to D will have the same mathematic relationships > > between the notes of > > the scale. > > > > The German poet Christian Schubart wrote about key > > colors in his "Ideen zu > > einer Aesthetik der Tonkunst." (1806). His > > description (in English) of the > > character of various keys can be found here: > > > > http://www.wmich.edu/mus-theo/courses/keys.html > > > > Of Db Major, Schubart says: > > > > "A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. > > It cannot laugh, but > > it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least > > grimace its > > crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and > > feelings can be brought > > out in this key." > > > > The idea of affective key characteristics seems > > somewhat related to the > > phenomenon called "synaesthesia", where the > > stimulation of one sense causes > > a perception in another sense; music provoking the > > sensation of colors > > seems to be the most common. > > > > By the way, Paul, do you have absolute ("perfect") > > pitch? > > > > John A. Panning > > Lake City, Iowa > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > > organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 00:25:33 -0400   Robert Hebble said the reason Fox's arrangement is in Db, is so the lowest notes on of the pedals are heard in that last chord.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: I'm just an old softy (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:30:45 -0700   I started typesetting the Yon "Messa dei Pastori" in '28 Prayer Book English tonight for Christmas ... what a flood of memories THAT brought back ... St. Mary's RC Church, Lorain, OH, 1962 (the first time I ever heard it); Holy Rosary RC Church, Cleveland, OH, 1963-1968 ... I guess my roommate took it to St. James Episcopal Church on 55th Street sometime around then, where it has become a Christmas tradition (THEY get to sing it in LATIN; I don't); I must have lost it when I moved to Cincinnati ... I don't ever remember doing it at Old St. Mary's RC there. Thanks to the organist at St. James, I recovered a copy of the Latin original recently.   If anybody wants a simple, tuneful Kyrie, Sanctus and Agnus Dei for SATB (maybe for Christmas MORNING, when everybody's EXHAUSTED), you're welcome to it ... it's in the public domain. I think I'm going to transpose it down some and make a congregational part, just to keep the Rector happy (grin).   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: "Jeffery Korns" <jakorns@home.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:41:47 -0500   I read that introduction to the arrangement too, but if he'd a put it in C he could have gone one note lower. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 11:25 PM Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key     > Robert Hebble said the reason Fox's arrangement is in Db, is so the = lowest > notes on of the pedals are heard in that last chord. > > Carlo > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Two manual, 30-stop organ From: "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 00:42:29 -0400   Yeah Bruce, a sad loss of trees. But don't be too concerned. It will never be built.   Stan  
(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 00:47:36 -0400   the introduction to that piece actually says 'the biggest pedal notes'.......   Sure, C Major would have been a semi-tone lower, but there must be a = reason why he didn't arrange it in C, and I think I know why. Mixtures break back at certain points. Maybe, with the combination of mixtures and couplers = (sub and super), the lowest pedal note that sounds the lowest notes on = everything (pedal stops & manual stops coupled at 8 & 4) is D flat and not C.   Just a thought...........   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: A "Fuller" key From: <PHarri5833@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 04:50:20 EDT     --part1_3e.df678ea.2875844c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 05/07/01 05:14:05 GMT Daylight Time, jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes:     > of how the overtones line up depending on the temperament used in the = tuning > process. Even in equal temperament, each key has it's own color.     I have often suspected that equal temperament is not truly equal, perhaps = as a result of the beat counting method many tuners use when setting out the basic scale. It would be interesting if a professional tuner could = confirm, or deny, that the methods they use to create an "equal temperament" = results in semitones of different sizes across the scale. Do they believe it would =   create exactly the same scale as a high precision digital tuning aid which =   gave the exactly the same frequency multiples between all semitones?   My feeling is that a truly equal temperament could not posses the "key colour" attribute that so many of us sense.   It has been suggested that key colour could be due to association with the =   character of other known pieces in that key. However, I don't claim to = have perfect pitch but can nonetheless sense "key colour" in pieces I hear for = the first time and for which I have never seen the score.     Peter   Peter M Harrison Emmanuel Church, Holcombe Ramsbottom, Lancashire & P H Music tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 fax: +44 (0)1204 853445   --part1_3e.df678ea.2875844c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 05/07/01 05:14:05 GMT Daylight Time, <BR>jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes: <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">of how the = overtones line up depending on the temperament used in the tuning <BR>process. Even in equal temperament, each key has it's own color. = &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BR>I have often suspected that equal temperament is not truly equal, = perhaps as <BR>a result of the beat counting method many tuners use when setting out = the <BR>basic scale. It would be interesting if a professional tuner could = confirm, <BR>or deny, that the methods they use to create an "equal temperament" = results <BR>in semitones of different sizes across the scale. Do they believe it = would <BR>create exactly the same scale as a high precision digital tuning aid = which <BR>gave the exactly the same frequency multiples between all semitones? <BR> <BR>My feeling is that a truly equal temperament could not posses the "key =   <BR>colour" attribute that so many of us sense. <BR> <BR>It has been suggested that key colour could be due to association with = the <BR>character of other known pieces in that key. However, I don't claim to = have <BR>perfect pitch but can nonetheless sense "key colour" in pieces I hear = for the <BR>first time and for which I have never seen the score. <BR> <BR> <BR>Peter <BR> <BR>Peter M Harrison <BR>Emmanuel Church, Holcombe <BR>Ramsbottom, Lancashire <BR>&amp; P H Music <BR>tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 <BR>fax: +44 (0)1204 853445</FONT></HTML>   --part1_3e.df678ea.2875844c_boundary--  
(back) Subject: A "fire-filled" Spanish organ! From: <PHarri5833@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 04:50:27 EDT     --part1_f7.c27095f.28758453_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Kyburz Organ of Santa Maria, Mahon (Mao), Mediterranean Menorca=3D20   Subscribers may be interested to know of a new CD release of the = rarely=3D20 recorded Spanish instrument of Santa Maria in the Balearic = (Mediterranean)=3D20 island of Menorca. The instrument was fortunate to survive the Civil = War=3D20 unlike many other instruments. It was built in 1810 by Kyburz, a Swiss = who=3D20 had settled in Barcelona, bringing many North European ideas but = absorbing=3D20 Spanish influences along the way including the infamous en chamade=3D20 "Trompeter=3DEDa de Batalla". International influences also appear with = the 7=3D20 rank Cornetta Magna as well as the more subtle Cornetta Inglesa and = the=3D20 Campanillas (bells) and gentler sections in the enclosed Recitativo = section=3D20 allow a unique approach to later symphonic music.   This CD shows the chamade reeds in fierce splendour in some = traditional=3D20 Spanish music and also to give a unique attack to the well known = March=3D20 Triomphale 'Nun Danket Alle Gott' by Karg Elert. Other tracks include = pieces=3D =3D20 by Bach, Buxtehude, Couperin, Mestres and L=3DF3pez and also one by the = player=3D ,=3D20 Tom=3DE9 Olives who has studied with Montserrat Torrent, Klemens Schnorr = and=3D20 Marie Clair Alain.   Olives is now titular organist of the Cathedral in Cuitadella and = also=3D20 performs regularly on the Santa Maria organ.   The CD is available internationally for US$20.00 directly from the UK = based=3D20 producer and further details of the tracks, instrument and player and ways = t=3D o=3D20 order are described at http://user.aol.com/phmusic1/organcds.htm.     Peter M Harrison Emmanuel Church, Holcombe Ramsbottom, Lancashire & P H Music tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 fax: +44 (0)1204 853445=3D20   --part1_f7.c27095f.28758453_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2><B>Kyburz Organ of = Santa=3D20=3D Maria, Mahon (Mao), Mediterranean Menorca</B>=3D20 <BR> <BR>Subscribers may be interested to know of a new CD release of the = rarely=3D20 <BR>recorded Spanish instrument of Santa Maria in the Balearic = (Mediterranea=3D n)=3D20 <BR>island of Menorca. The instrument was fortunate to survive the Civil = War=3D =3D20 <BR>unlike many other instruments. It was built in 1810 by Kyburz, a Swiss = w=3D ho=3D20 <BR>had settled in Barcelona, bringing many North European ideas but = absorbi=3D ng=3D20 <BR>Spanish influences along the way including the infamous en = chamade=3D20 <BR>"Trompeter=3DEDa de Batalla". International influences also appear = with th=3D e 7=3D20 <BR>rank Cornetta Magna as well as the more subtle Cornetta Inglesa and = the=3D20 <BR>Campanillas (bells) and gentler sections in the enclosed Recitativo = sect=3D ion=3D20 <BR>allow a unique approach to later symphonic music. <BR> <BR>This CD shows the chamade reeds in fierce splendour in some = traditional=3D20 <BR>Spanish music and also to give a unique attack to the well known = March=3D20 <BR>Triomphale 'Nun Danket Alle Gott' by Karg Elert. Other tracks include = pi=3D eces=3D20 <BR>by Bach, Buxtehude, Couperin, Mestres and L=3DF3pez and also one by = the pl=3D ayer,=3D20 <BR>Tom=3DE9 Olives who has studied with Montserrat Torrent, Klemens = Schnorr a=3D nd=3D20 <BR>Marie Clair Alain. <BR> <BR>Olives is now titular organist of the Cathedral in Cuitadella and = also=3D20 <BR>performs regularly on the Santa Maria organ. <BR> <BR>The CD is available internationally for US$20.00 directly from the UK = ba=3D sed=3D20 <BR>producer and further details of the tracks, instrument and player and = wa=3D ys to=3D20 <BR>order are described at http://user.aol.com/phmusic1/organcds.htm. <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0">Peter M Harrison <BR>Emmanuel Church, Holcombe <BR>Ramsbottom, Lancashire <BR>&amp; P H Music <BR>tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 <BR>fax: +44 (0)1204 853445</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"> </FONT></HTML>   --part1_f7.c27095f.28758453_boundary--