PipeChat Digest #2201 - Friday, July 6, 2001
 
Microphones, Singing, and Acoustics
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Rodgers Organ at Carnegie Hall
  by <Posthorn8@aol.com>
Re: Rodgers Organ at Carnegie Hall
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Daniel
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Microphones, Singing, and Acoustics
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Blowers for small organ
  by "William P. Adams" <wpadams1@mindspring.com>
Re: Blowers for small organ
  by "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
 

(back) Subject: Microphones, Singing, and Acoustics From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:04:29 EDT   Dear List Members:   I am following this with interest because I, too, find it troublesome when =   either a soloist or a choir is amplified, especially when unnecessarily = so. I wandered into Saint Patrick's (new) Cathedral in NYC on my lunch break = on Tuesday, and my ears HURT from the over-amplified, blatant female voice coming through the bullhorns. It seemed to me that it might intimidate people from joining in song, rather than serving to lead them. That notwithstanding, the place has an exceptionally liquid acoustic, and I = didn't really see the need for any amplification.   For seven years, in the planning process for the restoration of the Temple =   Emanu-El complex in New York City, I lobbied logically and stoically for = some remedy for the acoustical problems with the room, a vast space which is VISUALLY an eight-second room, but is made of Guastavino AcoustoLith, requiring spoken word and music to be amplified. Even with a full = symphony orchestra on the Bima, and a concert choir, if the room is full, the = violins don't make it past the third bay. During our annual "Masters of the = Baroque" series with the Saint Luke's Chamber Orchestra, I could not hear the harpsichord soloist from the fourth row. It was decided, after discussing =   the options, that the room would remain as-is. The cost of the = scaffolding, the inability to guarantee results, and the discoloration of much of the stenciled work were all considerations.   For organ and choral music, however, we came up with some compromise solutions. First and foremost was that the new organ would be scaled and voiced for the room as its acoustic now stands, learning from the past two =   attempts to make an organ really fill and excite the 2,500-seat nave with = its 90-foot ceilings. We were fortunate enough to have acousticians come in = and take readings all over the room, with various stops and combinations, from =   the existing 32' Open Wood, right up through experimental pipes from all = of the new Mixtures. Scales and metal thicknesses are tremendous -- the = Swell Sesquialtera looks like a bunch of mortar shells.   Next was simply opening up the thick, heavy, sound-blocking drapes between =   the choir tribune and the nave; we did this for one rehearsal, and the results were amazing. The choir could hear the organ, the organist could hear the Cantor and the organ, the Cantor could hear himself in balance = with everybody, NATURALLY, for the first time in his quarter-century tenure. = The Administrative Vice President came to hear the difference, and was amazed. = A decision was made to finally remove those drapes and replace them with something acoustically transparent, minimizing the amplification and microphoning, and putting in a new, more sophisticated sound system to = handle spoken word and singing. When this will be affected I do not know, but we =   are certainly hoping that it occurs before this New Year's Eve service.   Eventually, as things progress (air conditioning has been installed for = the first time since the edifice was built in 1927-29), and the stained glass restorations and mosaic cleanings and stonework is completed, we hope to = have the choir loft remodeled, elevating the choir, and changing the = configuration of the ceiling from a coved formation to a canted, concert hall stage arrangement, for better projection and more direct sound. My one worry is =   that as they clean out seventy years of dirt from the pores of the AcoustoLith, it will be even MORE sound-absorbent.   But in the end, the organ will survive the room, and will not be reliant = upon amplification. The choir will need less amplification, and the Cantor = will be able to sing in better communication with the other musicians. The musical tradition there is still deeply rooted in 19th century Germanic = opera tradition; in fact, the large professional choir is seated in quartets, = as if in an opera chorus on stage, rather than in sections. The repertoire ranges from traditional, centuries-old hymns (piyuttim), to Brahms' "How Lovely is Thy Dwelling Place," and Parry's "I Was Glad" on Rosh Hashana!!!   While I don't know about the Catholic church, in synagogues, Cantors (Chazzanim) are almost always classically trained lyric baritones, used to =   starring roles... The culture of the microphone in modern America is not limited to the lounge singers or rock stars, and is most likely here to = stay, especially as we become more and more used to processed music in videos, = CDs, cinema, and radio.   Sebastian Matthaus Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers Organ at Carnegie Hall From: <Posthorn8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:22:39 EDT     --part1_129.100b7f7.28767aef_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Last I knew it ended up in a theatre in Portland Oregon. Tim   --part1_129.100b7f7.28767aef_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Last I knew it ended up = in a theatre in Portland Oregon. <BR>Tim</FONT></HTML>   --part1_129.100b7f7.28767aef_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers Organ at Carnegie Hall From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:53:13 EDT   It was indeed five manuals. I was an impressionable 14 years old at the time, and went to the dedication, which was the first time I met Virgil. That was also my introduction to the Liszt "Ad Nos ad Salutarem Undam." Don't know what happened to the organ, though. SMG  
(back) Subject: Re: Daniel From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:15:53 EDT     --part1_c4.16b598b4.28768769_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/5/01 8:05:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca writes:     > If Joseph McCabe is reading this, Please send me an email. I cant find = your > Email Address > > Here's Joe's e-mail addy.....   jmmccabe@acsu.buffalo.edu   Sorry... I wuz eavesdrippin!     Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_c4.16b598b4.28768769_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/5/01 8:05:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">If Joseph McCabe = is reading this, Please send me an email. I cant find your <BR>Email Address <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Here's Joe's e-mail addy..... <BR> <BR> jmmccabe@acsu.buffalo.edu <BR> <BR>Sorry... I wuz eavesdrippin! <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_c4.16b598b4.28768769_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Microphones, Singing, and Acoustics From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:47:48 EDT     --part1_3b.16f58f7d.28768ee4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In our relatively live, yet not quite reverberant worship space, I = generally do not use any electronic amplification for our choirs. We do, however, = use it for spoken word and for solo singing (most times). My reasoning for = mics for soloists is so that the folks can better understand the words = (especially since most of the listeners have less than optimal hearing -- am I being diplomatic enough? <grin>).   I have attempted to teach our choirs to allow the room to work for us, and =   that pretty much works, even for our youngest children.   Now, in our informal (i.e. contemporary) service, of course we use mics = and electronic sounds, because that is the style.   A successful sound system does its job without bringing undue attention to =   itself.   Neil B       --part1_3b.16f58f7d.28768ee4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2>In our relatively live, yet not quite reverberant worship space, = &nbsp;I generally <BR>do not use any electronic amplification for our choirs. &nbsp;We do, = however, use <BR>it for spoken word and for solo singing (most times). &nbsp;My = reasoning for mics <BR>for soloists is so that the folks can better understand the words = (especially <BR>since most of the listeners have less than optimal hearing -- am I = being <BR>diplomatic enough? &lt;grin&gt;). <BR> <BR>I have attempted to teach our choirs to allow the room to work for us, = and <BR>that pretty much works, even for our youngest children. <BR> <BR>Now, in our informal (i.e. contemporary) service, of course we use = mics and <BR>electronic sounds, because that is the style. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>A successful sound system does its job without bringing undue = attention to <BR>itself. <BR> <BR>Neil B <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_3b.16f58f7d.28768ee4_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Blowers for small organ From: "William P. Adams" <wpadams1@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:23:03 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_008E_01C105A9.7011A120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Hello all,   I imagine this topic has come up in the past but I am looking for a =3D small blower for a 4 rank Peter Collins box organ. I understand that the = =3D Laukhuff blowers are good and near silent but hard to get for a private = =3D individual. Currently it has a (British organ blowers (B.O.B.) blower =3D which makes a muted roar, which is a bit much as the instrument's sound = =3D is quite delicate. It was made as a one off in the late 70's and has 8' = =3D 4' 2' flues all in wood even the tiny ones. Also a regal at 16' pitch. =3D By having the fluework all in wood means that the little pipes do not =3D shriek and drown the 8' so the sound is well balanced. The pressure with = =3D US electricity with the blower is 80mm. It has a British motor running =3D through a transformer, but as the rpm is dictated by frequency it is =3D running at 6/5th the correct speed. I did some experiments and think =3D that at the correct frequency the pressure is nearer 70mm. The target =3D Laukhuff blowers from their catalog have pressures of 70mm or 80mm - not = =3D quite sure which one to go for. That will help get it down to pitch - it = =3D is not possible to tune some of the open pipes to A440 in a St. Louis =3D summer, with good tone, as they have just little flaps of pipe metal at = =3D the top to bend over. I think they are tuned at 65degF which is a =3D moderately warm day in Britain! Tracker organ supplies claim to have = =3D Laukhuff's but their e-mail address seems to be non-functional. I will =3D try and call some time. Their web site is discouraging to =3D non-professional builders.   William P. Adams (transplanted Brit) St. Louis MO   ------=3D_NextPart_000_008E_01C105A9.7011A120 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Hello all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>I imagine this topic has come up in the past but I = =3D am looking=3D20 for a small blower for a 4 rank Peter Collins box organ. I understand =3D that the=3D20 Laukhuff blowers are good and near silent but hard to get for a = private=3D20 individual. Currently it has a (British organ blowers (B.O.B.) blower =3D which=3D20 makes a muted roar, which is a bit much as the instrument's sound is =3D quite=3D20 delicate. It was made as a one off in the late 70's and has 8' 4' 2' =3D flues all=3D20 in wood even the tiny ones. Also a regal at 16' pitch. By having the =3D fluework=3D20 all in wood means that the little pipes do not shriek and drown the 8' =3D so the=3D20 sound is well balanced. The pressure with US electricity with the blower = =3D is=3D20 80mm. It has a British motor running through a transformer, but as the =3D rpm is=3D20 dictated by frequency it is running at 6/5th the correct speed. I did =3D some=3D20 experiments and think that at the correct frequency the pressure is =3D nearer 70mm.=3D20 The target Laukhuff blowers from their catalog have pressures of 70mm or = =3D 80mm -=3D20 not quite sure which one to go for. That will help get it down to pitch = =3D - it is=3D20 not possible to tune some of the open pipes to A440 in a St. Louis =3D summer, with=3D20 good tone, as they have just little flaps of pipe metal at the top to =3D bend over.=3D20 I think they are tuned at 65degF which is a moderately warm day in=3D20 Britain!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tracker organ supplies claim to have =3D Laukhuff's but=3D20 their e-mail address seems to be non-functional. I will try and call =3D some time.=3D20 Their web site is discouraging to non-professional =3D builders.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>William P. Adams (transplanted Brit)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>St. Louis MO</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_008E_01C105A9.7011A120--    
(back) Subject: Re: Blowers for small organ From: "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:56:05 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002E_01C105A5.ABED8FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   HI, After you get your blower you can make or have made a sound =3D deading box in which to place the blower. I have a 1 horse blower for =3D my residence organ and it is in a blower box, much quieter now. I =3D thought that may help. Gary ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: William P. Adams=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:23 PM Subject: Blowers for small organ     Hello all,   I imagine this topic has come up in the past but I am looking for a =3D small blower for a 4 rank Peter Collins box organ. I understand that the = =3D Laukhuff blowers are good and near silent but hard to get for a private = =3D individual. Currently it has a (British organ blowers (B.O.B.) blower =3D which makes a muted roar, which is a bit much as the instrument's sound = =3D is quite delicate. It was made as a one off in the late 70's and has 8' = =3D 4' 2' flues all in wood even the tiny ones. Also a regal at 16' pitch. =3D By having the fluework all in wood means that the little pipes do not =3D shriek and drown the 8' so the sound is well balanced. The pressure with = =3D US electricity with the blower is 80mm. It has a British motor running =3D through a transformer, but as the rpm is dictated by frequency it is =3D running at 6/5th the correct speed. I did some experiments and think =3D that at the correct frequency the pressure is nearer 70mm. The target =3D Laukhuff blowers from their catalog have pressures of 70mm or 80mm - not = =3D quite sure which one to go for. That will help get it down to pitch - it = =3D is not possible to tune some of the open pipes to A440 in a St. Louis =3D summer, with good tone, as they have just little flaps of pipe metal at = =3D the top to bend over. I think they are tuned at 65degF which is a =3D moderately warm day in Britain! Tracker organ supplies claim to have = =3D Laukhuff's but their e-mail address seems to be non-functional. I will =3D try and call some time. Their web site is discouraging to =3D non-professional builders.   William P. Adams (transplanted Brit) St. Louis MO   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002E_01C105A5.ABED8FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>HI,&nbsp; After&nbsp; you get your = =3D blower you can=3D20 make or have made a sound deading box in which to place the blower. I =3D have=3D20 a&nbsp; 1 horse blower for my residence organ and it is in a blower box, = =3D much=3D20 quieter now.&nbsp; I thought that may help.&nbsp; Gary</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = =3D 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A href=3D3D"mailto:wpadams1@mindspring.com" =3D title=3D3Dwpadams1@mindspring.com>William=3D20 P. Adams</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org"=3D20 title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org>pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 05, 2001 = =3D 11:23=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Blowers for small =3D organ</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Hello all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>I imagine this topic has come up in the past but I = =3D am=3D20 looking for a small blower for a 4 rank Peter Collins box organ. I =3D understand=3D20 that the Laukhuff blowers are good and near silent but hard to get for = =3D a=3D20 private individual. Currently it has a (British organ blowers (B.O.B.) = =3D blower=3D20 which makes a muted roar, which is a bit much as the instrument's =3D sound is=3D20 quite delicate. It was made as a one off in the late 70's and has 8' =3D 4' 2'=3D20 flues all in wood even the tiny ones. Also a regal at 16' pitch. By =3D having the=3D20 fluework all in wood means that the little pipes do not shriek and =3D drown the=3D20 8' so the sound is well balanced. The pressure with US electricity =3D with the=3D20 blower is 80mm. It has a British motor running through a transformer, = =3D but as=3D20 the rpm is dictated by frequency it is running at 6/5th the correct =3D speed. I=3D20 did some experiments and think that at the correct frequency the =3D pressure is=3D20 nearer 70mm. The target Laukhuff blowers from their catalog have =3D pressures of=3D20 70mm or 80mm - not quite sure which one to go for. That will help get = =3D it down=3D20 to pitch - it is not possible to tune some of the open pipes to A440 =3D in a St.=3D20 Louis summer, with good tone, as they have just little flaps of pipe =3D metal at=3D20 the top to bend over. I think they are tuned at 65degF which is a =3D moderately=3D20 warm day in Britain!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tracker organ supplies claim to = =3D have=3D20 Laukhuff's but their e-mail address seems to be non-functional. I will = =3D try and=3D20 call some time. Their web site is discouraging to non-professional=3D20 builders.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>William P. Adams (transplanted Brit)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>St. Louis =3D MO</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002E_01C105A5.ABED8FA0--