PipeChat Digest #2209 - Sunday, July 8, 2001
 
Re: stoplists and the literature
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: thaxted
  by "Robert Hanudel" <hanudel@schoollink.net>
Re: stoplists and the literature
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: stoplists and the literature
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: stoplists and the literature
  by "Jeffery Korns" <jakorns@home.com>
Re: being content - was - well, I guess it WON'T
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: stoplists and the literature From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:37:59 -0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0026_01C1072D.17E6A9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Dear Bud, What would be an outstanding stop list American Classic organ. I =3D would be curious as to others replies also. I would like a stop list on = =3D an organ that would be capable of playing Bach Preludes and fugues, Komm = =3D Susser Todt, Dupre, (as played by Virgil Fox with the assumed string =3D celestes) as well as French Romantic. What say you. =3D20 Paul ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: quilisma@socal.rr.com=3D20 To: PipeChat=3D20 Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:12 PM Subject: Re: stoplists and the literature     Cremona502@cs.com wrote:=3D20 My question here is if the concept of the American Classic organ =3D necessarily=3D20 requires it to have the stops necessary to play "all" of the =3D literature, or=3D20 rather is supposed to be a composit instrument that can do justice =3D to all of=3D20 the literature by combining the resources of the complete =3D instrument, sharing=3D20 a 16 reed among all divisions, combining the swell and =3D choir/positive to make=3D20 a French positif, etc. I have seldom seen an American Classic =3D instrument=3D20 that was as complete as Bud suggests (although it would be nice). = =3D Most=3D20 American Classic instruments I've seen, especially A-S, followed =3D Harrison's=3D20 concept of no Great reeds, full principal chorus on the Great only, = =3D Swell=3D20 chorus consisting of 4' and Mixture, and Choir/Positiv of 2' and =3D possibly a=3D20 mixture. Additionally, most reeds were in the Swell, with only a =3D Krummhorn=3D20 on the Positiv. The Pedal division was basically a Principal 16 8 = =3D unit,=3D20 Bourdon 16 - 8 unit, a 4' principal, a mixture, and a 16 reed. =3D Please=3D20 correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to have been the accepted =3D design for=3D20 an American Classic instrument which would "play all the =3D literature," even=3D20 following this pattern to fairly large instruments.=3D20 This is the American Classic concept that I grew up around. =3D Electronic=3D20 manufacturers followed this concept, as well, even without the =3D restrictions=3D20 of space.   That indeed was/is the common conception ... I love GDH's organs, but = =3D I DON'T think they embody an instrument that can do justice to most of =3D the literature.=3D20 In the argument about the proposed changes to St. Mark's, =3D Philadelphia, it was mentioned that, except for a 16' Krumhorn, EVERY =3D SINGLE REED on that organ is a CHORUS TRUMPET.=3D20   Now, my question is this: exactly WHAT organ literature requires a =3D battery of chorus trumpets to the exclusion of all else, and is not this = =3D a deficiency in design, no matter HOW reverently we regard GDH's =3D instruments?=3D20   EVERY historical style of organ-building (except the Italian) has a =3D chorus reed of SOME sort on the Great. I understand Harrison's reasons =3D for building the reedless Great, but are they valid from the standpoint = =3D of the LITERATURE?=3D20   The "augmented" Pedal was built because of restrictions of space and =3D money, but I don't think Harrison (or anybody else, for that matter) =3D regarded it as the norm, or ideal. When the money and space was there, =3D even E.M. Skinner built substantial independent Pedal organs, even =3D during the depths of the orchestral movement.=3D20   My point as regards digital instruments was this: THEY *don't* have =3D the restrictions of space and money; why do they then stay with a design = =3D style that was dictated by those things, and is also (now) widely =3D regarded as inadequate or incomplete? Instead of expanding the stoplist = =3D to include more of the things needed, they seem to multiply celestes and = =3D flavours of stopped flutes and gadgets instead. A digital organ of =3D 75-100 stops SHOULD have a full 8'-based principal chorus, open and =3D stopped flutes, strings, Cornets composed and decomposed, and chorus =3D reeds in every manual division, surely. Virtually NONE of them DO.=3D20   Cheers,=3D20   Bud=3D20     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0026_01C1072D.17E6A9C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Dear Bud,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What would = =3D be&nbsp;an=3D20 outstanding stop list&nbsp;American Classic organ. I would be curious as = =3D to=3D20 others replies also. I would like a stop list on an organ that would be = =3D capable=3D20 of playing Bach Preludes and fugues, Komm Susser Todt, Dupre, &nbsp;(as = =3D played=3D20 by Virgil Fox with the&nbsp;assumed string celestes) &nbsp;as well as =3D French=3D20 Romantic. What say you.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=3D20 size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= =3D p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= =3D ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= =3D &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= =3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 Paul</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3Dquilisma@socal.rr.com=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:quilisma@socal.rr.com">quilisma@socal.rr.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">PipeChat</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 07, 2001 = =3D 7:12=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: stoplists and = the=3D20 literature</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><A =3D href=3D3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Cremona502@cs.com</A> wrote:=3D20   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3D"CITE"><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D-1>My question=3D20 here is if the concept of the American Classic organ=3D20 necessarily</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D-1>requires it to have the stops necessary to play "all" of = =3D the=3D20 literature, or</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D-1>rather is supposed to be a composit instrument that can do = =3D justice=3D20 to all of</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D-1>the=3D20 literature by combining the resources of the complete instrument,=3D20 sharing</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D-1>a 16 reed=3D20 among all divisions, combining the swell and choir/positive to=3D20 make</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D-1>a French=3D20 positif, etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have seldom seen an American =3D Classic=3D20 instrument</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D-1>that=3D20 was as complete as Bud suggests (although it would be =3D nice).&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 Most</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D-1>American=3D20 Classic instruments I've seen, especially A-S, followed=3D20 Harrison's</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D-1>concept of no Great reeds, full principal chorus on the = =3D Great only,=3D20 Swell</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D-1>chorus=3D20 consisting of 4' and Mixture, and Choir/Positiv of 2' and = possibly=3D20 a</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D-1>mixture.&nbsp;&nbsp; Additionally, most reeds were in the =3D Swell,=3D20 with only a Krummhorn</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT =3D face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D-1>on the Positiv.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Pedal division was = =3D basically a=3D20 Principal 16 8 unit,</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT =3D face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D-1>Bourdon 16 - 8 unit, a 4' principal, a mixture, and a = 16=3D20 reed.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT=3D20 face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D-1>correct me if I'm wrong, = but =3D this seems=3D20 to have been the accepted design for</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT=3D20 face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D-1>an American Classic =3D instrument which=3D20 would "play all the literature," even</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT=3D20 face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D-1>following this pattern to = =3D fairly large=3D20 instruments.</FONT></FONT>=3D20 <P><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D-1>This is the = American =3D Classic=3D20 concept that I grew up around.&nbsp;&nbsp; = Electronic</FONT></FONT>=3D20 <BR><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D-1>manufacturers =3D followed this=3D20 concept, as well, even without the restrictions</FONT></FONT> =3D <BR><FONT=3D20 face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D-1>of=3D20 space.</FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>That indeed was/is the common =3D conception=3D20 ... I love GDH's organs, but I DON'T think they embody an instrument =3D that can=3D20 do justice to most of the literature.=3D20 <P>In the argument about the proposed changes to St. Mark's, =3D Philadelphia, it=3D20 was mentioned that, except for a 16' Krumhorn, EVERY SINGLE REED on =3D that organ=3D20 is a CHORUS TRUMPET.=3D20 <P>Now, my question is this: exactly WHAT organ literature requires a = =3D battery=3D20 of chorus trumpets to the exclusion of all else, and is not this a =3D deficiency=3D20 in design, no matter HOW reverently we regard GDH's instruments?=3D20 <P>EVERY historical style of organ-building (except the Italian) has a = =3D chorus=3D20 reed of SOME sort on the Great. I understand Harrison's reasons for =3D building=3D20 the reedless Great, but are they valid from the standpoint of the =3D LITERATURE?=3D20 <P>The "augmented" Pedal was built because of restrictions of space =3D and money,=3D20 but I don't think Harrison (or anybody else, for that matter) regarded = =3D it as=3D20 the norm, or ideal. When the money and space was there, even E.M. =3D Skinner=3D20 built substantial independent Pedal organs, even during the depths of = =3D the=3D20 orchestral movement.=3D20 <P>My point as regards digital instruments was this: THEY *don't* have = =3D the=3D20 restrictions of space and money; why do they then stay with a design =3D style=3D20 that was dictated by those things, and is also (now) widely regarded =3D as=3D20 inadequate or incomplete? Instead of expanding the stoplist to include = =3D more of=3D20 the things needed, they seem to multiply celestes and flavours of =3D stopped=3D20 flutes and gadgets instead. A digital organ of 75-100 stops SHOULD =3D have a full=3D20 8'-based principal chorus, open and stopped flutes, strings, Cornets =3D composed=3D20 and decomposed, and chorus reeds in every manual division, surely. =3D Virtually=3D20 NONE of them DO.=3D20 <P>Cheers,=3D20 <P>Bud </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0026_01C1072D.17E6A9C0--    
(back) Subject: Re: thaxted From: "Robert Hanudel" <hanudel@schoollink.net> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 22:26:43 -0400   Carlo Pietroniro wrote: > > I put this on one of the lists I'm on, and I thought I'd offer it to = everyone. I scanned > the hymn "Thaxted" out of one of my hymnals, set to the words "O God = Beyond All Praising". > If anyone'd like a copy, let me know. > > c.p. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   I would very much like a copy. Could you FAX the copy to me? I will provide my FAX number if you could do this with no trouble. -Thank you, Jane Hanudel  
(back) Subject: Re: stoplists and the literature From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 21:58:50 -0700     --------------5D1D84F8B7A20993586931EA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit       Paul Valtos wrote:   > Dear Bud, What would be an outstanding stop list American Classic > organ. I would be curious as to others replies also. I would like a > stop list on an organ that would be capable of playing Bach Preludes > and fugues, Komm Susser Todt, Dupre, (as played by Virgil Fox with > the assumed string celestes) as well as French Romantic. What say > you. Paul   OK, Paul, we haven't had a good flame war for awhile (grin). I'll do it by families within divisions:   GREAT - 10/11 stops   8' Principal 4' Octave 2' Super Octave 1 1/3' Mixture IV or VI   16' Bourdon 8' Harmonic Flute or Open Flute 2 2/3' Mounted Cornet III, or III-V, depending on space and money   8' Trumpet   8' Violoncello [8' Gemshorn, if there's space and money]   SWELL - 10/11 stops   8' Open Diapason 4' Octave 2' Mixture III or V   8' Stopped Flute or Double Flute   16' Bassoon 8' Trumpet 8' Oboe [8' Vox Humana, if there's space and money] 4' Clarion   8' Viola 8' Viola Celeste   CHOIR or POSITIVE (unenclosed or enclosed -- your choice) - 11/13 stops   8' Diapason 4' Octave 2' Super Octave 1' Mixture IV   8' Chimney Flute or Stopped Flute [4' Flute, if there's space and money] 2 2/3' Nazard [2' Flute, if there's space and money] 1 3'5 Tierce   8' Small Trumpet 8' Cremona, Cromorne or Clarinet   8' Salicional 8' Unda maris II   PEDAL - 8/11 stops   16' Principal 8' Octave 4' Super Octave 2' Mixture III - 2 - 1 1/3 - 1, no breaks   [32' Contra Bourdon - 12 pipes - ext. 16' Sub Bass - if there's money and space] [32' Resultant - 12 pipes - bottom octave to be quint with 16' Sub Bass;   balance to play 16' Sub Bass an octave lower, if no true 32' Bourdon available] 16' Sub Bass [8' Open Flute - if there's space and money] [4' Flute - if there's space and money]   16' Trombone 8' Trumpet [4' Clarion or Schalmei - if there's space and money]   OK, that's a three manual organ of 39/46 speaking stops.   There ARE a few omissions:   A 16' Sub Principal would be useful on the Great ... it might be advisable to have one, with notes 1-12 transmitted from the Pedal 16' Principal.   There's no stopped flute at 8' on the Great, but it can be gotten by playing the 16' Bourdon up an octave.   There is no decomposed Cornet on the Great, and the mounted Cornet isn't a full V rank Cornet until middle c, IF there's room and money for that.   Some might argue that having a 16' or 4' reed on the Great is more important that having a Gemshorn; that's valid ... I just happen to play in an Anglican church that requires LOTS of flexible, softer accompaniment stops (grin).   The Swell probably has fewer flutes and soft stops and more principals and reeds than most people are accustomed to seeing, but that IS the FIRST function of the Swell in both English and French romantic music: Full Swell to Reeds, supported by PLENTY of 8' flue sound, hence the 8' Diapason and the low-pitched mixture. The full Swell should be able to make itself felt against the coupled full Great and full Choir with the box open OR closed.   The Choir organ lacks flutes at 4' and 2' ... which means that the decomposed Cornet isn't authentic, since there isn't a wide-scale 2' ... that's a judgment call ... personally I'd take the 8' Small Trumpet and the 8' Salicional (in that order), rather than the flutes.   The Pedal is pretty basic ... I'd prefer the 12 quint pipes for the Resultant to a DIGITAL 32', but that's my taste. Again, I'd have a 4' reed before I'd have a 4' flute. If a softer 16' is needed, the Bourdon can be coupled from the Great. If a softer 16' reed is needed, it can be coupled from the Swell.   None of the manual divisions have the complete "four fonds", but they all have the string at 8' to bridge the dynamic/harmonic gap between the flute and the principal.   It WOULD be desirable to have open, harmonic, or double flutes AND stopped or chimney flutes at 8' on each manual; I've contented myself with a selection.   Now ... I'm presuming some things here: all straight stops, except perhaps a Great 16' Sub Principal and the Pedal Resultant/Sub Bass, electric action to slider chests, except maybe for the Pedal Principal and Sub Bass, encasement, generous scales all round, reasonable wind pressures; and, just as important, FULL COUPLERS, and I do mean FULL.   I'm a little weary of builders objecting to that because people might "abuse" them. If it salves your consciences, guys, wire 'em not to affect the mixtures or be drawn with the crescendo pedal or the full organ pedal, but if you're gonna build an organ for ME, they're gonna be there.   Ditto a transposer ... I'm too OLD to transpose Schubert's 23rd Psalm to G Flat at sight, and I HAVE to if my choir's gonna be able to sing it, 'cause they can't reach the high notes in A Flat.   I think I know after fifty years of doing it what's required to accompany my service, and I'm omitting some things from the spec because they CAN be gotten with couplers ... notably flutes 8-4 on the Swell.   End of sentence, end of paragraph, end of discussion.   Do you get the sense I feel strongly about having full couplers? (grin)   Did I mention this is a design for a church organ? (grin)   OK ... flame away (grin).   Cheers,   Bud-by-the-Beach       --------------5D1D84F8B7A20993586931EA Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> &nbsp; <p>Paul Valtos wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><style></style> <font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D-1>Dear Bud,</font></font><font face=3D"Arial"><font = size=3D-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What would be an outstanding stop list American Classic organ. I would be curious as to others replies also. I would like a stop list on an organ that would be capable of playing Bach Preludes and fugues, Komm Susser Todt, Dupre,&nbsp; (as played by Virgil Fox with the assumed string = celestes)&nbsp; as well as French Romantic. What say you.</font></font>&nbsp;<font = face=3D"Arial"><font = size=3D-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Paul</font></font></blockquote> OK, Paul, we haven't had a good flame war for awhile (grin). I'll do it by families within divisions: <p>GREAT - 10/11 stops <p>8' Principal <br>4' Octave <br>2' Super Octave <br>1 1/3' Mixture IV or VI <p>16' Bourdon <br>8' Harmonic Flute or Open Flute <br>2 2/3' Mounted Cornet III, or III-V, depending on space and money <p>8' Trumpet <p>8' Violoncello <br>[8' Gemshorn, if there's space and money] <p>SWELL - 10/11 stops <p>8' Open Diapason <br>4' Octave <br>2' Mixture III or V <p>8' Stopped Flute or Double Flute <p>16' Bassoon <br>8' Trumpet <br>8' Oboe <br>[8' Vox Humana, if there's space and money] <br>4' Clarion <p>8' Viola <br>8' Viola Celeste <p>CHOIR or POSITIVE (unenclosed or enclosed -- your choice) - 11/13 stops <p>8' Diapason <br>4' Octave <br>2' Super Octave <br>1' Mixture IV <p>8' Chimney Flute or Stopped Flute <br>[4' Flute, if there's space and money] <br>2 2/3' Nazard <br>[2' Flute, if there's space and money] <br>1 3'5 Tierce <p>8' Small Trumpet <br>8' Cremona, Cromorne or Clarinet <p>8' Salicional <br>8' Unda maris II <p>PEDAL - 8/11 stops <p>16' Principal <br>8' Octave <br>4' Super Octave <br>2' Mixture III - 2 - 1 1/3 - 1, no breaks <p>[32' Contra Bourdon - 12 pipes - ext. 16' Sub Bass - if there's money and space] <br>[32' Resultant - 12 pipes - bottom octave to be quint with 16' Sub Bass; <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; balance to play 16' Sub Bass an octave lower, if no true 32' Bourdon available] <br>16' Sub Bass <br>[8' Open Flute - if there's space and money] <br>[4' Flute - if there's space and money] <p>16' Trombone <br>8' Trumpet <br>[4' Clarion or Schalmei - if there's space and money] <p>OK, that's a three manual organ of 39/46 speaking stops. <p>There ARE a few omissions: <p>A 16' Sub Principal would be useful on the Great ... it might be = advisable to have one, with notes 1-12 transmitted from the Pedal 16' Principal. <p>There's no stopped flute at 8' on the Great, but it can be gotten by playing the 16' Bourdon up an octave. <p>There is no decomposed Cornet on the Great, and the mounted Cornet = isn't a full V rank Cornet until middle c, IF there's room and money for that. <p>Some might argue that having a 16' or 4' reed on the Great is more = important that having a Gemshorn; that's valid ... I just happen to play in an = Anglican church that requires LOTS of flexible, softer accompaniment stops (grin). <p>The Swell probably has fewer flutes and soft stops and more principals and reeds than most people are accustomed to seeing, but that IS the FIRST function of the Swell in both English and French romantic music: Full = Swell to Reeds, supported by PLENTY of 8' flue sound, hence the 8' Diapason and the low-pitched mixture. The full Swell should be able to make itself felt against the coupled full Great and full Choir with the box open OR closed. <p>The Choir organ lacks flutes at 4' and 2' ... which means that the = decomposed Cornet isn't authentic, since there isn't a wide-scale 2' ... that's a judgment call ... personally I'd take the 8' Small Trumpet and the 8' = Salicional (in that order), rather than the flutes. <p>The Pedal is pretty basic ... I'd prefer the 12 quint pipes for the Resultant to a DIGITAL 32', but that's my taste. Again, I'd have a 4' reed before I'd have a 4' flute. If a softer 16' is needed, the Bourdon can be coupled from the Great. If a softer 16' reed is needed, it can be = coupled from the Swell. <p>None of the manual divisions have the complete "four fonds", but they all have the string at 8' to bridge the dynamic/harmonic gap between the flute and the principal. <p>It WOULD be desirable to have open, harmonic, or double flutes AND = stopped or chimney flutes at 8' on each manual; I've contented myself with a = selection. <p>Now ... I'm presuming some things here: all straight stops, except = perhaps a Great 16' Sub Principal and the Pedal Resultant/Sub Bass, electric = action to slider chests, except maybe for the Pedal Principal and Sub Bass, = encasement, generous scales all round, reasonable wind pressures; and, just as = important, FULL COUPLERS, and I do mean FULL. <p>I'm a little weary of builders objecting to that because people might "abuse" them. If it salves your consciences, guys, wire 'em not to affect the mixtures or be drawn with the crescendo pedal or the full organ pedal, but if you're gonna build an organ for ME, they're gonna be there. <p>Ditto a transposer ... I'm too OLD to transpose Schubert's 23rd Psalm to G Flat at sight, and I HAVE to if my choir's gonna be able to sing it, 'cause they can't reach the high notes in A Flat. <p>I think I know after fifty years of doing it what's required to = accompany my service, and I'm omitting some things from the spec because they CAN be gotten with couplers ... notably flutes 8-4 on the Swell. <p>End of sentence, end of paragraph, end of discussion. <p>Do you get the sense I feel strongly about having full couplers? (grin) <p>Did I mention this is a design for a church organ? (grin) <p>OK ... flame away (grin). <p>Cheers, <p>Bud-by-the-Beach <br>&nbsp; <br>&nbsp; </body> </html>   --------------5D1D84F8B7A20993586931EA--    
(back) Subject: Re: stoplists and the literature From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:00:50 -0400   looks good to me Bud...........   c.p.    
(back) Subject: Re: stoplists and the literature From: "Jeffery Korns" <jakorns@home.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:11:12 -0500   Yeah, but where is the xylophone or bird whistle? hehehe Actually, your specs and reasonings make sense. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>   > looks good to me Bud........... > > c.p. > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: Re: being content - was - well, I guess it WON'T From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:01:19 EDT     --part1_c9.1256ab09.2879512f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/7/01 8:57:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, randyterryus@yahoo.com writes:     > Bruce, I have several versions. I will send you the "current" one using = the > present Klann console >   Actually, I'm more interested in what ranks are there, rather than what = names are on the console. So maybe just a list of ranks by division with an indication as to what is unified or borrowed. I hope it would be of interested to the whole list for discussion. THanks.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_c9.1256ab09.2879512f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/7/01 8:57:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>randyterryus@yahoo.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Bruce, I have = several versions. I will send you the "current" one using the <BR>present Klann console <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Actually, I'm more interested in what ranks are there, rather than = what names <BR>are on the console. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;So maybe just a list of = ranks by division with an <BR>indication as to what is unified or borrowed. &nbsp;I hope it would be = of <BR>interested to the whole list for discussion. &nbsp;THanks. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_c9.1256ab09.2879512f_boundary--