PipeChat Digest #2212 - Sunday, July 8, 2001
 
Re: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note Singing
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note Singing
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
New Organ
  by "Michael K. Cronin" <mcronin@iag.net>
Proper 9C at St. Agatha's
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
Re: New Organ
  by "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
Re: New Organ
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Re: New Organ
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Carnegie Hall Rodgers "out of this world" !!! ???
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: New Organ
  by <SProt82850@cs.com>
combo organs
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Casavant # 2268
  by "Randy Terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: New Organ
  by <ahremsen40@aol.com>
Re: combo organs
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Re: analog vs digital
  by <PHarri5833@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note Singing From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 14:02:51 -0400   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --MS_Mac_OE_3077445772_4806641_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit   From: quilisma@socal.rr.com Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:26:46 -0800 To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note Singing   The modal melodies are hauntingly beautiful ... one little-known example that comes to mind is "Kedron", from the Southern Harmony, #81 in the Episcopal Hymnal 1940; another is "Cross of Jesus", which I think I saw in = a recent Methodist hymnal.     Bud, I MUST clean up my old mail boxes.   Question: I'd LOVE to hear some of this stuff. Is it commercially available on a CD anywhere? Or otherwise?   Alan (who really can't manage to trip to Appalachia, e'en tho that'd be = the best way to do it)         --MS_Mac_OE_3077445772_4806641_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note Singing</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <BLOCKQUOTE><B>From: </B>quilisma@socal.rr.com<BR> <B>Reply-To: </B>&quot;PipeChat&quot; &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org&gt;<BR> <B>Date: </B>Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:26:46 -0800<BR> <B>To: </B>PipeChat &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org&gt;<BR> <B>Subject: </B>OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note Singing<BR> <BR> The modal melodies are hauntingly beautiful ... one little-known example = th=3D at comes to mind is &quot;Kedron&quot;, from the Southern Harmony, #81 in = th=3D e Episcopal Hymnal 1940; another is &quot;Cross of Jesus&quot;, which I = thin=3D k I saw in a recent Methodist hymnal. <BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Bud, I MUST clean up my old mail boxes. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> Question: &nbsp;I'd LOVE to hear some of this stuff. &nbsp;Is it = commercial=3D ly available on a CD anywhere? &nbsp;Or otherwise?<BR> <BR> Alan (who really can't manage to trip to Appalachia, e'en tho that'd be = the=3D best way to do it)<BR> <BR> <BR> </BODY> </HTML>     --MS_Mac_OE_3077445772_4806641_MIME_Part--    
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note Singing From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 11:21:26 -0700     --------------08447458059DA313D0AF7825 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Go to   http://fasola.org/   It's ALL there (grin) ... books, recordings, bibliographies, calendar of Sings, etc. etc. etc.   Cheers,   Bud   Alan Freed wrote:   > > > From: quilisma@socal.rr.com > Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:26:46 -0800 > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Subject: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note > Singing > > The modal melodies are hauntingly beautiful ... one > little-known example that comes to mind is "Kedron", from > the Southern Harmony, #81 in the Episcopal Hymnal 1940; > another is "Cross of Jesus", which I think I saw in a recent > Methodist hymnal. > > > > Bud, I MUST clean up my old mail boxes. > > Question: I'd LOVE to hear some of this stuff. Is it commercially > available on a CD anywhere? Or otherwise? > > Alan (who really can't manage to trip to Appalachia, e'en tho that'd > be the best way to do it) > >   --------------08447458059DA313D0AF7825 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Go to <p><A HREF=3D"http://fasola.org/">http://fasola.org/</A> <p>It's ALL there (grin) ... books, recordings, bibliographies, calendar of Sings, etc. etc. etc. <p>Cheers, <p>Bud <p>Alan Freed wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE>&nbsp; <blockquote><b>From: </b>quilisma@socal.rr.com <br><b>Reply-To: </b>"PipeChat" &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org> <br><b>Date: </b>Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:26:46 -0800 <br><b>To: </b>PipeChat &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org> <br><b>Subject: </b>OFF-TOPIC (if you like) - Southern Shape-note Singing <p>The modal melodies are hauntingly beautiful ... one little-known = example that comes to mind is "Kedron", from the Southern Harmony, #81 in the = Episcopal Hymnal 1940; another is "Cross of Jesus", which I think I saw in a recent Methodist hymnal. <br>&nbsp;</blockquote>   <p><br>Bud, I MUST clean up my old mail boxes. <p>Question:&nbsp; I'd LOVE to hear some of this stuff.&nbsp; Is it = commercially available on a CD anywhere?&nbsp; Or otherwise? <p>Alan (who really can't manage to trip to Appalachia, e'en tho that'd be the best way to do it) <br>&nbsp; <br>&nbsp;</blockquote> </html>   --------------08447458059DA313D0AF7825--    
(back) Subject: New Organ From: "Michael K. Cronin" <mcronin@iag.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 13:45:34 -0500   Hi:   Our parish is putting some numbers together for a new organ for our church (seats 1200). We expect to spend in the ballpark of $150M.   100% pipe is out the question. Some combination of pipe/digital is in the picture, and has been recommended by Wicks, Rodgers, and Allen. My question is this. Are the digital sounds Wicks and Rodgers use (Walker, I believe) as good as those used or generated by Allen. Is there a noticeable difference in quality of digital stops based on sampling method or extent of sampling?   Thanks for any help on this. ___________________________ Michael K. Cronin Ormond Beach, FL http://www.iag.net/~mcronin  
(back) Subject: Proper 9C at St. Agatha's From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:32:23 -0500   St. Agatha's Episcopal Church DeFuniak Springs, Florida   Proper 9, Year C Service - Powell/Merbecke   Prelude: My young life hath an end - Sweelinck Cantilene - Pierne Processional Hymn: God of our fathers, whose almighty (National Hymn) - H 718 Sequence Hymn: Lift high the cross, the love of Christ (Crucifer) - H 473 Offertory Hymn: Lord, you give the great commission (Rowthorn) - H 528 Communion music: improvisation on Jerusalem, Land of Rest and Jerusalem = the Golden (Ewing) Closing Hymn: Come, labor on. Who dares stand idle (Ora labora) - H 541 Postlude - The Stars and Stripes Forever (belated, of course)   First Sunday back - nothing had changed. Priest's sermon was the same = one, the only one he knows. Parishioner who substituted last Sunday also = helped himself to my cassock and a wedding yesterday without my knowledge, but apparently with the priest's full blessing.   Home was a jungle when I got home last week, and have spent my time home just trying to catch up with the grass, my hungry plants, and the heat. = It is shore 'nuf hot here, Deon! How one man can disable a tractor finishing mower, a bushhog and a riding lawn mower at the same time in the thick of mowing season is beyond me, so I spent precious money picking up a Snapper riding mower yesterday to work in tandem with the pushmower on the 3-4 cleared acres until the other implements are repaired.   Have thought about telling about my travels and the organs and organists heard, but have just not had the energy to tackle the job. I took reams = of notes every night.   Cheers to all (still waiting for Malcolm to tell us about the grand finale OHS recital),   Glenda Sutton        
(back) Subject: Re: New Organ From: "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:35:52 -0500   HI Michael and list: In my opinion, digital voices are good for low notes, 16' bourdons etc., not for upper work. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael K. Cronin <mcronin@iag.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: New Organ     > Hi: > > Our parish is putting some numbers together for a new organ for our > church (seats 1200). We expect to spend in the ballpark of $150M. > > 100% pipe is out the question. Some combination of pipe/digital is in > the picture, and has been recommended by Wicks, Rodgers, and Allen. My > question is this. Are the digital sounds Wicks and Rodgers use (Walker, > I believe) as good as those used or generated by Allen. Is there a > noticeable difference in quality of digital stops based on sampling > method or extent of sampling? > > Thanks for any help on this. > ___________________________ > Michael K. Cronin > Ormond Beach, FL > http://www.iag.net/~mcronin > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: New Organ From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:40:22 EDT     --part1_10e.235f9a8.287a0316_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi............   Wicks uses electronic voices from Walker Technical Co.. Allen and Rodgers =   each use their own proprietary systems.   Bill   --part1_10e.235f9a8.287a0316_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3>Hi............ <BR> <BR>Wicks uses electronic voices from Walker Technical Co.. &nbsp;Allen = and Rodgers <BR>each use their own proprietary systems. <BR> <BR>Bill</FONT></HTML>   --part1_10e.235f9a8.287a0316_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: New Organ From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:03:08 -0700   Hi, Michael!   First of all, I presume you mean $150K, not $150M ... if you had $150M to spend, well ... (grin). OTOH, if you mean $150M for the BUILDING, *that's* more than the LA cathedral is costing (grin).   You CAN have a pipe organ for $150K, or less, maybe ... and a good one = .... as it happens, there are several good "experienced" pipe organs right = there in Florida that can be had from Organ Clearing House,   http://www.organclearinghouse.com/   The 3m Welte is still in Florida, I believe ... that's a SUPER organ, from all reports.   I looked at the combo option for St. Matthew's, and decided against it.   Here's the problem: the DIGITAL side is decent (for what it is), and the three manufacturers you mentioned are approximately equivalent in DIGITAL sound; the PROBLEM is that the *best* PIPE organ builders won't have anything to DO with combo organs (at least one of the pipe organ builders' guilds FORBIDS it, except for digital 32' stops), so you're not going to get first-class PIPES. And it's going to be difficult to find a pipe organ tech who's WILLING to take care of the pipe side ... most of 'em HATE = combo organs (grin) ... and the electronic techs don't have the expertise, for the most part.   The SECOND problem is that NOBODY has satisfactorily solved the problem of keeping the digital side in tune with the pipe side, since the pipe side drifts with the weather ... at least not to my knowledge. You can tune the digital side to a GIVEN pipe, but you CAN'T tune the digital side to match EACH pipe of EACH rank ... there have been some attempts at "fuzzy logic" systems to DO that, but I've not heard a successful one YET.   My advice, FWIW, would be this: first, explore an "experienced" pipe organ from Organ Clearing House; if you don't have the funds or the space for THAT, then get a first-class ALL-digital instrument, with triple or quadruple the amps and speakers that "come with" from the factory, make sure you have spacious speaker chambers for sound mixing, and let it go at that.   If you're going to go the all-digital route, I'd look at Copeman Hart from England ... they build custom digital organs of VERY high quality. They DO build combo organs, and they might have access to better pipe builders in the UK. They don't have many organs in this country, but they'd be worth looking at:   http://www.copemanhart.co.uk/   COPEMAN HART & COMPANY LIMITED Finedon Road IRTHLINGBOROUGH Northamptonshire ENGLAND NN9 5TZ Tel +44 (0)1933 652600 Fax +44 (0)1933 652288 Email info@copemanhart.co.uk   CONSULTANCIES   COPEMAN HART - America Delaware 19958 Tel Toll Free 1800 773 4858 Fax Toll Free 1800 773 4858 Email CopemanHartUS@aol.com   The exchange rate for imported organs from Britain is very favorable right now, so that more-or-less offsets the increased shipping costs.   If you simply MUST have a combo organ, I'd offer the following: Rodgers = has been doing it for much longer, and has the most experience, but I DON'T know who's making their PIPES these days; Allen's ELECTRONICS and sound = are superior, IMO; they have recently entered into an agreement with Reuter to do their combo organs; Walker probably IS the top-of-the-line digital manufacturer in this country; do you REALLY want WICKS *pipes*? (grin)   Cheers,   Bud-by-the-Beach   "Michael K. Cronin" wrote:   > Hi: > > Our parish is putting some numbers together for a new organ for our > church (seats 1200). We expect to spend in the ballpark of $150M. > > 100% pipe is out the question. Some combination of pipe/digital is in > the picture, and has been recommended by Wicks, Rodgers, and Allen. My > question is this. Are the digital sounds Wicks and Rodgers use (Walker, > I believe) as good as those used or generated by Allen. Is there a > noticeable difference in quality of digital stops based on sampling > method or extent of sampling? > > Thanks for any help on this. > ___________________________ > Michael K. Cronin > Ormond Beach, FL > http://www.iag.net/~mcronin > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Carnegie Hall Rodgers "out of this world" !!! ??? From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:26:57 -0400   Surely something more Italian, like Coci.   Alan   > From: Mattcinnj@aol.com > Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:06:37 EDT > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: Re: Carnegie Hall Rodgers "out of this world" !!! ??? > > Claire Coachie (spelling ???? ....    
(back) Subject: Re: New Organ From: <SProt82850@cs.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:49:31 EDT     --part1_21.e1232f0.287a134b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear Michael,   I strongly suggest you go hear instruments by each "builder" and judge for =   yourself. Each one of us on this list will have a different opinion as = to which electronic (IF ANY) creates sounds that are suitable for our ears = and ultimately you have to live with the choice you make Sunday after Sunday. = Be sure to listen to combination instruments and notice if pipe and = simulate sounds blend and if pipework is properly scaled and voiced for the rest of =   the instrument.   Personally, with a 150K budget and assuming there is adequate room, my own =   approach would be to look for a used pipe organ either through the professional journals or through the Organ Clearing House. If you know = what you are looking for, there are some fantastic used organs waiting for a = new home out there.   Steven   --part1_21.e1232f0.287a134b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dear Michael, <BR> <BR>I strongly suggest you go hear instruments by each "builder" and judge = for <BR>yourself. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Each one of us on this list will have a = different opinion as to <BR>which electronic (IF ANY) creates sounds that are suitable for our = ears and <BR>ultimately you have to live with the choice you make Sunday after = Sunday. &nbsp;Be <BR>sure to listen to combination instruments &nbsp;&nbsp;and notice if = pipe and simulate <BR>sounds blend and if pipework is properly scaled and voiced for the = rest of <BR>the instrument. <BR> <BR>Personally, with a 150K budget and assuming there is adequate room, my = own <BR>approach would be to look for a used pipe organ either through the <BR>professional journals or through the Organ Clearing House. &nbsp;If = you know what <BR>you are looking for, there are some fantastic used organs waiting for = a new <BR>home out there. <BR> <BR>Steven</FONT></HTML>   --part1_21.e1232f0.287a134b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: combo organs From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 13:04:19 -0700   Another point that was made VERY STRONGLY to me by our local Allen rep: if you DO go the combo route, be SURE the DIGITAL side DOES have at LEAST quadruple speakers and amps (more, if the church is large), so that it at least *approaches* the "weight" and "presence" of the pipe side, and also that it's utilizing the MAXIMUM spread of separate channels ... with Allen, at least, some organs can be played through as few as four channels, or as many as 30+, depending on the internal configuration.   That was a common problem with early Rodgers combos ... the pipes were VERY aggressive, and the electronics sounded like they were in the next parish over by comparison (grin).   And be sure the pipe side is properly housed in a reflective enclosure (case), rather than planted on naked "window-boxes" (grin).   Now ... everybody chant together (in Tone 8g):   "Go to Organ CLEAR-ing-house; * Go to OR-gan Clear-ing-house."   (grin) ... maybe OCH should film a COMMERCIAL with that jingle (chuckle). Guess I've been watching Cal Worthington too long (grin).   Cheers,   Bud-By-The-Beach-in-So-Cal, where Cal Worthington is an advertising LEGEND            
(back) Subject: Re: Casavant # 2268 From: "Randy Terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:10:07 -0700 (PDT)   --- Carlo Pietroniro <organist@total.net> wrote: > here's the specs for an organ I play frequently. It was re-built twice, = and got a new > console from a church that was demolished in 1972. The original organ = had 4 manuals, but > in 1972, the 4th manual (echo division) was removed. Like I said, this = organ lives and > breathes on it's couplers. In my opinion, it desperately needs a 16-foot = manual stop > somewhere, and maybe even a "Great Sub". It would also be better if = there was "Choir Sub" > and "Choir Super". > > S. R. Warren 1852 > Casavant 1895 > Providence Organ 1972 > Console: 1955 Casavant, No. 2268   Well it looks like it has been tinkered with too much! Nix the 1-1/3 and = Cymbal in the choir! Depending on how it all sounds (since stoplists and the fact that an = instrument is "cobbled" do not always indicate "bad" when it may look that way. I could do quite = nicely with it!!   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Randy Terry Minister of Music, Organist & Choirmaster The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California www.stpetersrwc.org   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: New Organ From: <ahremsen40@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:15:01 EDT   Dear Mike & Bud,   There's no question that Walker makes the finest digital sounds. I have played the combo organs that Wicks has in their factory and they were = quite a surprise. I found them to be excellent, and very well blended and = balanced. Bud, I think we have had this discussion before but Wicks is no longer the =   company you remember and hated for good reason (didn't we all). I don't = know when they had their "turnaround", but the organs they are building now are =   very good instruments. They did build very bad instruments once (except during the Willis period), now they are building, dare I say it, fine instruments, and NO, I am not a Wicks rep. Mike, for all it's worth, I = find Rogers instruments to be rather cheaply built, compare an Allen and a = Rogers console and you will see what I mean. Personally I would go with the = company that knows the most about PIPES, and that would be Wicks. Now I await the =   insulting letters. The last time I wrote about Wicks having become a good =   builder someone from this list e-mailed me to tell me either I couldn't = hear or didn't know what to listen for. Don't you just love organists!   Good luck, Mike, in finding the organ that will answer your churches = needs.   Best, Allan Remsen  
(back) Subject: Re: combo organs From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:04:00 EDT     --part1_5f.178d1a78.287a24c0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   One additional comment about combo instruments.   Part of the success is how well the pipe work is done and many ranks. = What I mean is...................2 ranks of pipes hooked to a 4 manual electronic =   console just will not get the job done in a 1200 seat church.   Also $150,000 may be a thin budget for the stated need.   Bill   --part1_5f.178d1a78.287a24c0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3>One additional comment = about combo instruments. <BR> <BR>Part of the success is how well the pipe work is done and many ranks. = &nbsp;What I <BR>mean is...................2 ranks of pipes hooked to a 4 manual = electronic <BR>console just will not get the job done in a 1200 seat church. <BR> <BR>Also $150,000 may be a thin budget for the stated need. <BR> <BR>Bill</FONT></HTML>   --part1_5f.178d1a78.287a24c0_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: analog vs digital From: <PHarri5833@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:07:24 EDT     --part1_8a.91b8802.287a258c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 06/07/01 12:48:11 GMT Daylight Time, dutchorgan@svs.net =   writes:   > Re: Early electronic voice samples > > WurliTzer back in the 50s used actual pipes with oscilloscope = measurements > of tone. I remember seeing a sales brochure picturing a (WurliTzer) > lab-worker taking such measurements.     Early attempts to build electronic organs which replicated the sound of = pipe instruments did analyse the harmonic structure and wave envelope of pipe sounds as Rick describes.   However, the analysis was limited to the simple techniques available using =   manual methods with oscilloscopes, graph paper and hand computed calculations. This rudimentary data was used to assist the artificial synthesis of pipe organ tone from tone generators giving various wave = shapes and other electronic signals and passing different combinations of signal mixes through various filters.   The technology to record actual pipe sounds then reproduce them under = organ keyboard control did not exist until the late 1960s. At that time, the storage capacity within these instruments meant there was space for only a =   relatively small number of pipe samples. The overuse of limited numbers of =   samples meant the results for some stops were an improvement over those = from earlier designs using "synthesised" signals. However, other areas (e.g. mixtures) often sounded worse!   Today's cheap digital storage means that many more different pipe samples = can be stored in instruments based on this technique and the results are obviously much more successful.   Other modern instruments are not based on the reproduction of stored = samples, though pipe samples are used at an earlier stage. This type of instrument does not store the pipe sample itself but instead contains data derived = from a sophisticated analysis on an original pipe sound. This data is then used = to reconstruct the sound when it is required. This technique also allows the data from the pipe analysis to be adjusted in a variety of ways to give a high degree of control to "voice" an individual instrument.     Peter   Peter M Harrison   Emmanuel Church, Holcombe Ramsbottom, Lancashire, GB & P H Music tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 fax: +44 (0)1204 853445 web http://user.aol.com/phmusic1/phm.htm   --part1_8a.91b8802.287a258c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 06/07/01 12:48:11 GMT Daylight Time, dutchorgan@svs.net <BR>writes: <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">Re: &nbsp;Early electronic voice samples &gt; <BR>WurliTzer back in the 50s used actual pipes with oscilloscope = measurements <BR>of tone. I remember seeing a sales brochure picturing a (WurliTzer) <BR>lab-worker taking such measurements.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BR>Early attempts to build electronic organs which replicated the sound = of pipe <BR>instruments did analyse the harmonic structure and wave envelope of = pipe <BR>sounds as Rick describes. <BR> <BR>However, the analysis was limited to the simple techniques available = using <BR>manual methods with oscilloscopes, graph paper and hand computed <BR>calculations. This rudimentary data was used to assist the artificial <BR>synthesis of &nbsp;pipe organ tone from tone generators giving various = wave shapes <BR>and other electronic signals and passing different combinations of = signal <BR>mixes through various filters. <BR> <BR>The technology to record actual pipe sounds then reproduce them under = organ <BR>keyboard control did not exist until the late 1960s. At that time, the <BR>storage capacity within these instruments meant there was space for = only a <BR>relatively small number of pipe samples. The overuse of limited = numbers of <BR>samples meant the results for some stops were an improvement over = those from <BR>earlier designs using "synthesised" signals. However, other areas = (e.g. <BR>mixtures) often sounded worse! <BR> <BR>Today's cheap digital storage means that many more different pipe = samples can <BR>be stored in instruments based on this technique and the results are <BR>obviously much more successful. <BR> <BR>Other modern instruments are not based on the reproduction of stored = samples, <BR>though pipe samples are used at an earlier stage. This type of = instrument <BR>does not store the pipe sample itself but instead contains data = derived from <BR>a sophisticated analysis on an original pipe sound. This data is then = used to <BR>reconstruct the sound when it is required. This technique also allows = the <BR>data from the pipe analysis to be adjusted in a variety of ways to = give a <BR>high degree of control to "voice" an individual instrument. <BR> <BR> <BR>Peter <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Peter M Harrison <BR> <BR>Emmanuel Church, Holcombe <BR>Ramsbottom, Lancashire, GB <BR>&amp; P H Music <BR>tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 <BR>fax: +44 (0)1204 853445 <BR>web http://user.aol.com/phmusic1/phm.htm</FONT></HTML>   --part1_8a.91b8802.287a258c_boundary--