PipeChat Digest #2219 - Tuesday, July 10, 2001
 
Re: unit spec
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: stoplists and the literature
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: New Organ
  by "Jim" <bald1@prodigy.net>
Bud's organ specs
  by "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net>
Re: Off Topic: Recording of Southern Shape-note Singing
  by "Matthew J Collins" <mcoll@panix.com>
RE: 'BLACK BEAUTY' TOURING ORGAN
  by "Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net>
III/39 Organ Proposal
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
III/39 Organ Proposal
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Rodgers Organ at Carnegie Hall
  by <Bobmac36@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: unit spec From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:46:12 EDT     --part1_e3.1740f543.287baa54_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/9/01 5:14:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:     > The 5 1/3' Principal would give a species > of resultant 16' principal sound, if used with the 16' Sub Bass or > Gedeckt ... hopefully (grin) ... pretty crude,   I have seen a couple of organs with a 5-1/3 Quint in the pedal and they = were extremely successful, especially if they are independent.   I think this stoplist would allow an organist to play recitals quite well. = There is sufficient colour to provide interest and if the finishing is sensitive it would be quite enjoyable. Just about any organ can be a recital organ is an organist is creative. I used to play monthly = recitals on a 3 stop mechanical action instrument. It was built by Felgemaker: 8 =   Open Diapason, 8 Stopped Flute, 8 Salicional (18-61); 1-17 stopped bass.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_e3.1740f543.287baa54_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/9/01 5:14:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The 5 1/3' = Principal would give a species <BR>of resultant 16' principal sound, if used with the 16' Sub Bass or <BR>Gedeckt ... hopefully (grin) ... pretty crude, </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I have seen a couple of organs with a 5-1/3 Quint in the pedal and = they were <BR>extremely successful, especially if they are independent. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR> <BR>I think this stoplist would allow an organist to play recitals quite = well. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>There is sufficient colour to provide interest and if the finishing is =   <BR>sensitive it would be quite enjoyable. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Just about = any organ can be a <BR>recital organ is an organist is creative. &nbsp;&nbsp;I used &nbsp;to = play monthly recitals <BR>on a 3 stop mechanical action instrument. &nbsp;It was built by = Felgemaker: &nbsp;&nbsp;8 <BR>Open Diapason, 8 Stopped Flute, 8 Salicional (18-61); 1-17 stopped = bass. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_e3.1740f543.287baa54_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: stoplists and the literature From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 17:48:08 -0700     --------------1E24325E19B8473CBE2FDF18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Possibly ... as drawn now, it isn't, though.   Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > Bud, > You mentioned at one point having the Great partially enclosed. Is > that > still an option? > > Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com > with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" > Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi > Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --------------1E24325E19B8473CBE2FDF18 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Possibly ... as drawn now, it isn't, though. <p>Cremona502@cs.com wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font = size=3D-1>Bud,</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>You mentioned at one = point having the Great partially enclosed.&nbsp; Is that</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>still an = option?</font></font> <p><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>Bruce = Cornely&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp; Cremona502@cs.com</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>with the Baskerbeagles = in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!"</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>Visit Howling Acres = at&nbsp;&nbsp; <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/">http://members.tripod.com/Bru= con502/</A></font></font></blockquote> </html>   --------------1E24325E19B8473CBE2FDF18--    
(back) Subject: Re: New Organ From: "Jim" <bald1@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:28:59 -0500   Hi Mike   Allen is the number one builder for some reason. I would think that you could an Allen with all of the extras that would price in well within your budget, as well as meet the needs of the church.   In terms of sound, as your question was posed, I still prefer the Allen = over the Rogers. My information may be a little dated, but the sampling rate = of the Allen was considerably higher than that of Rogers.   However, I am a musician and not a technician, so it is my two cents = worth. I also love pipes and digitals equally.   Jim H   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael K. Cronin" <mcronin@iag.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: New Organ     > Hi: > > Our parish is putting some numbers together for a new organ for our > church (seats 1200). We expect to spend in the ballpark of $150M. > > > Thanks for any help on this. > ___________________________ > Michael K. Cronin > Ormond Beach, FL > http://www.iag.net/~mcronin > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Bud's organ specs From: "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 22:26:17 -0400     --------------F5BD88E6F67FB7F8D38C4281 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Bud... you said... The Nachthorn WAS in the Swell originally, as was the 2' Flautino, but it didn't all add up, somehow ... the Nachthorn in particular needs revoiced ... and there were NO principals in the original Moller Swell .... it was very weak, except for the all-obliterating Trompette. So I had to balance getting a principal chorus into the Swell with the need for a 4' flute SOMEWHERE, and I decided the revoiced Nachthorn would sound better out in the open on the Great. The organ WILL have full couplers (grin), so I CAN get a species of 8-4 flutes on the Swell that way ... not ideal, but we're full up space-wise.   Bud... that's exactly what I was talking about a while back when I = mentioned that in many instances (for general use... ) the trumpet could = really be well served on the great where it has a principal chorus to back it up.... why?... look at most of the American organs out = there from years back... they have a pitiful foundation ensemble on the = swell and then this big blaring trumpet that sounds like Hell! OK... you made the point really well here and I thought I'd point out = that this is a huge problem on a lot of organs!     --------------F5BD88E6F67FB7F8D38C4281 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Bud... you said... <br><i>The Nachthorn WAS in the Swell originally, as was the 2' Flautino, but</i> <br><i>it didn't all add up, somehow ... the Nachthorn in particular = needs</i> <br><i>revoiced ... and there were NO principals in the original Moller Swell</i> <br><i>... it was very weak, except for the all-obliterating Trompette. So I</i> <br><i>had to balance getting a principal chorus into the Swell with the need</i> <br><i>for a 4' flute SOMEWHERE, and I decided the revoiced Nachthorn = would</i> <br><i>sound better out in the open on the Great.&nbsp; The organ WILL have full</i> <br><i>couplers (grin), so I CAN get a species of 8-4 flutes on the Swell that</i> <br><i>way ... not ideal, but we're full up space-wise.</i> <p>Bud... that's exactly what I was talking about a while back when I = mentioned that in many instances (for general use... ) the trumpet could really be well served on the great where it has a principal chorus to back it up.... why?...&nbsp; look at most of the American organs out there from years back...&nbsp; they have a pitiful foundation ensemble on the swell and then this big blaring trumpet that sounds like Hell! <br>OK...&nbsp; you made the point really well here and I thought I'd = point out that this is a huge problem on a lot of organs! <br>&nbsp;</html>   --------------F5BD88E6F67FB7F8D38C4281--    
(back) Subject: Re: Off Topic: Recording of Southern Shape-note Singing From: "Matthew J Collins" <mcoll@panix.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 22:56:13 -0400   >>Alan and Bud conversed: >>Bud: ....The modal melodies are hauntingly beautiful ... one = little-known example that comes to mind is "Kedron", >>Alan: Question: I'd LOVE to hear some of this stuff. Is it = commercially available on a CD anywhere? Or otherwise?   If you can find a copy, check out the recording "Rivers of Delight", subtitled "American Folk Hymns from the Sacred Harp Tradition", by the = Word of Mouth Chorus. Copyright 1979 by Elektra/Asylum/Nonesuch Records. Elektra/Nonesuch # 9 713620-2. Available on CD, it includes "Kedron", music attributed to Elkanah Kelsey Dare, in "Repository of Sacred Music, Part Second" (1813). The piece had previously appeared in Amos Pilsbury's "The United States' Sacred Harmony" (1799). Text is by Charles Wesley:   Thou Man of grief, remember me; Thou never canst thyself forget Thy last expiring agony, Thy fainting pangs and bloody sweat.   Oh come and mourn with me awhile, See John and Mary by his side. Ah, look how patiently he hangs, Jesus our Lord is crucified.   The disc also includes my favorite, "Peace and Joy", by Paine Denson (1855-1955). Per the liner notes, over a dozen Denson family members, spanning four generations, contributed to the "Sacred Harp" from 1844 to 1966. ("Sacred Harp" is one of the best collections of tunes from shape-note singing. First published in 1844, and, I believe, still in = print.)   --- M Collins     --- mcoll@panix.com -- http://www.panix.com/~mcoll = ------------------------ Copyright 2001 Matthew J Collins. Reproduction or distribution prohibited except for direct response on Usenet or e-mail. Unsolicited commercial email will be proofread at $174 per message.    
(back) Subject: RE: 'BLACK BEAUTY' TOURING ORGAN From: "Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:17:27 -0500   If it was the Worth/Crow Duo -- "Worth Crowin' About" -- then it, indeed, was Black Beauty with the black consoled 3-manual theatre organ that was a travelling companion when Ted toured.   > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > John Vanderlee > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 1:40 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: RE: 'BLACK BEAUTY' TOURING ORGAN > > > >Hello List - > >My first organ concert, that planted the 'organ' bug in me for > life, was a > >Worth/Crow organ duo concert, sponsored by the Community Concerts > >organization in Salinas CA at the Salinas High School auditorium. I > >thoroughly enjoyed the concert, at the tender age of 10 or 11. > The concert > >took place in the early 70's (72, 73 perhaps??). > > > >I'm not sure if the organ was "Black Beauty." > > It was a Rodger's Theatre organ, not Black Beauty, I'm quite > sure. It's all > in " Virgil Fox, The Dish" > > John V > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: III/39 Organ Proposal From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:57:56 EDT   Dear PipeChatters:   While we are discussing smaller and mid-range organs, I thought I might = post a three-manual design of 39 ranks which we currently have out to bid for = an Episcopal Church. They were exceptionally tight on space, and while I was =   forced to employ extensions for the two 16' manual doubles, as well as extension work in the Pedal department, it is generally a decent design = for the liturgy and literature presented at their services. I have put an asterisk next to the vintage pipework that is salvageable from the present =   mess in the organ. If no builder is given for the vintage pipework, it = means that we could not identify the maker. Notice that there was no attempt to =   make the Choir division anything other than a Choir division...   GREAT ORGAN, manual II, unenclosed   16' Bourdon, 12 pipes, poplar and walnut, extension of 8' Stopped = Diapason 8' Open Diapason, 61 pipes*, slotted 30% tin, 17 zinc in facade = (Hutchings) 8' Stopped Diapason, 61 pipes, poplar and walnut 8' Harmonic Flute, 50 pipes*, Hoyt's metal, #1-#11 from Stopped Diapason 4' Principal, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 5 zinc (Hutchings) 4' Night Horn, 61 pipes*, open pine (Skinner) 2-2/3' Twelfth, 61 pipes*, 50% tin (Hutchings) 2' Fifteenth, 61 pipes*, 50% tin (Hutchings) IV-V Chorus Mixture, 268 pipes, 50% tin 8' Tromba, 61 pipes, zinc and 50% tin, English shallots, harmonic from F-sharp 31     SWELL ORGAN, manual III, enclosed   8' Open Diapason, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 12 new zinc basses 8' Chimney Flute, 61 pipes, 50% tin, 12 stopped pine basses 8' Salicional, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 12 new zinc basses (Hutchings) 8' Voix Celeste, 49 pipes*, 50% tin 4' Principal, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 5 zinc (Hutchings) 4' Traverse Flute, 61 pipes*, planed tin, harmonic from C25 (Hutchings) 2-2/3' Nasard, 61 pipes, 50% tin 2' Piccolo, 61 pipes*, planed 30% tin, harmonic from C13 1-3/5' Tierce, 56 pipes (C1-G56), 50% tin II-IV Mixture, 191 pipes, 50% tin 16' Bassoon, 12 pipes, full length, double-taper, new extension of Oboe 8' Trumpet, 61 pipes*, zinc & 50% tin, not harmonic, English shallots (Campbell) 8' Oboe, 61 pipes*, zinc stems, 30% tin uppers, scrolled from top Tremulant   CHOIR ORGAN, manual I, enclosed   8' Erzahler, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 1-7 zinc, not original (Skinner) 8' Vox Mystica, 56 pipes*, 50% tin, tuned sharp 8' Bourdon, 61 pipes,* stopped wood (Hutchings) 4' Principal, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 5 zinc 4' Nason Flute, 61 pipes*, 37 stopped wood, 24 open 50% tin (Hutchings) 2' Recorder, 61 pipes*, 30% tin, tapered 8' Clarinet, 61 pipes*, 56 reeds, (Skinner) 8' Oboe, 61 notes, by transmission from Swell unit chest Tremulant     PEDAL ORGAN   16' Double Open Diapason, 32 pipes*, open wood, (27 Hutchings, 5 new) 16' Subbass, 32 pipes*, stopped wood (27 Hutchings, 5 new) 16' Bourdon (by transmission from Great) 10-2/3' Contraquint (by transmission from Great) 8' Principal Bass, 32 pipes, zinc and 50% tin 8' Bourdon (by transmission from Great) 4' Choral Bass, 12 pipes, 50% tin, extension of Principal Bass 16' Trombone, 32 pipes*, zinc with tickside-out lead uppers 16' Bassoon (by transmission from Swell) 8' Trumpet, 12 pipes*, extension of Trombone 8' Bassoon (by transmission from Swell) 4' Clarion, 12 pipes, extension of Trumpet    
(back) Subject: III/39 Organ Proposal From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:01:36 EDT   Dear PipeChatters:   While we are discussing smaller and mid-range organs, I thought I might = post a three-manual design of 39 ranks which we currently have out to bid for = an Episcopal Church. They were exceptionally tight on space, and while I was =   forced to employ extensions for the two 16' manual doubles, as well as extension work in the Pedal department, it is generally a decent design = for the liturgy and literature presented at their services. I have put an asterisk next to the vintage pipework that is salvageable from the present =   mess in the organ. If no builder is given for the vintage pipework, it = means that we could not identify the maker. Notice that there was no attempt to =   make the Choir division anything other than a Choir division...   GREAT ORGAN, manual II, unenclosed   16' Bourdon, 12 pipes, poplar and walnut, extension of 8' Stopped = Diapason 8' Open Diapason, 61 pipes*, slotted 30% tin, 17 zinc in facade = (Hutchings) 8' Stopped Diapason, 61 pipes, poplar and walnut 8' Harmonic Flute, 50 pipes*, Hoyt's metal, #1-#11 from Stopped Diapason 4' Principal, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 5 zinc (Hutchings) 4' Night Horn, 61 pipes*, open pine (Skinner) 2-2/3' Twelfth, 61 pipes*, 50% tin (Hutchings) 2' Fifteenth, 61 pipes*, 50% tin (Hutchings) IV-V Chorus Mixture, 268 pipes, 50% tin 8' Tromba, 61 pipes, zinc and 50% tin, English shallots, harmonic from F-sharp 31     SWELL ORGAN, manual III, enclosed   8' Open Diapason, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 12 new zinc basses 8' Chimney Flute, 61 pipes, 50% tin, 12 stopped pine basses 8' Salicional, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 12 new zinc basses (Hutchings) 8' Voix Celeste, 49 pipes*, 50% tin 4' Principal, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 5 zinc (Hutchings) 4' Traverse Flute, 61 pipes*, planed tin, harmonic from C25 (Hutchings) 2-2/3' Nasard, 61 pipes, 50% tin 2' Piccolo, 61 pipes*, planed 30% tin, harmonic from C13 1-3/5' Tierce, 56 pipes (C1-G56), 50% tin II-IV Mixture, 191 pipes, 50% tin 16' Bassoon, 12 pipes, full length, double-taper, new extension of Oboe 8' Trumpet, 61 pipes*, zinc & 50% tin, not harmonic, English shallots (Campbell) 8' Oboe, 61 pipes*, zinc stems, 30% tin uppers, scrolled from top Tremulant   CHOIR ORGAN, manual I, enclosed   8' Erzahler, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 1-7 zinc, not original (Skinner) 8' Vox Mystica, 56 pipes*, 50% tin, tuned sharp 8' Bourdon, 61 pipes,* stopped wood (Hutchings) 4' Principal, 61 pipes*, 50% tin, 5 zinc 4' Nason Flute, 61 pipes*, 37 stopped wood, 24 open 50% tin (Hutchings) 2' Recorder, 61 pipes*, 30% tin, tapered 8' Clarinet, 61 pipes*, 56 reeds, (Skinner) 8' Oboe, 61 notes, by transmission from Swell unit chest Tremulant     PEDAL ORGAN   16' Double Open Diapason, 32 pipes*, open wood, (27 Hutchings, 5 new) 16' Subbass, 32 pipes*, stopped wood (27 Hutchings, 5 new) 16' Bourdon (by transmission from Great) 10-2/3' Contraquint (by transmission from Great) 8' Principal Bass, 32 pipes, zinc and 50% tin 8' Bourdon (by transmission from Great) 4' Choral Bass, 12 pipes, 50% tin, extension of Principal Bass 16' Trombone, 32 pipes*, zinc with tickside-out lead uppers 16' Bassoon (by transmission from Swell) 8' Trumpet, 12 pipes*, extension of Trombone 8' Bassoon (by transmission from Swell) 4' Clarion, 12 pipes, extension of Trumpet    
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers Organ at Carnegie Hall From: <Bobmac36@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:39:35 EDT   After reading Scott Foppiano's question about Black Beauty and Malcolm Wechsler's response, I wrote to Harry Littman of Denver for further information. Harry purchased Black Beauty in 1983 from Altenberg's Pianos (Rodgers = dealer) of Elizabeth, New Jersey. The organ was delivered to Harry's home in = Aurora, Colorado. When Harry moved to a loft apartment in Denver, the organ was placed (on loan) in a Roman Catholic seminary in the area. When the = seminary closed, Harry advertised the organ in The Diapason and TAO and sold it to = a member of First Presbyterian Church, San Diego in 1990. The buyer said = that it would be the "third organ" at that church. While Harry owned the = organ, he made two additions - a nameplate with Virgil Fox' signature, and a = Choir to Pedal toe stud. Harry and his wife also signed their names to the under-side of the rolltop. Since selling the organ, Harry has never = heard from the purchasers. (For whatever it's worth).