PipeChat Digest #2232 - Sunday, July 15, 2001
 
HOLLINS
  by "Donald Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com>
Recordings of Liszt "Ad nos, ad salutarum undam"
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Recordings of Liszt "Ad nos, ad salutarum undam"
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
subs and pay scales
  by "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net>
Re: if we DO have to pay singers ...
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: if we DO have to pay singers ...
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Fw: Free Organ
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
singers, preachers, organists
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
sub organists' pay versus sub clergy pay
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: if we DO have to pay singers ...
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
 

(back) Subject: HOLLINS From: "Donald Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 08:04:33 -0400       Most of Hollins' music has been reprinted by Oecumuse, and his autobiography has been reissued by Bardon Enterprises [both in england]. Don   http://www.pandk.com  
(back) Subject: Recordings of Liszt "Ad nos, ad salutarum undam" From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:00:59 EDT     --part1_127.174740b.2882fc1b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   Does anyone have recordings of this work which stand out as particularly = fin=3D e=3D20 in their opinions? I have, on CD, Virgil Fox at the 1979 Riverside = Concert=3D20 (Bainbridge) and Mark Laubach at St. John's Lutheran Church in Allentown, = PA=3D =3D20 (Pro Organo). The Laubach is clearly my favorite. My reasons are because = I=3D =3D20 find Laubach's playing more sensitive and contrasting instead of mere = volume=3D =3D20 and speed. Also, the recording technology when Virgil did his = Riverside=3D20 concert was nowhere near what it is today. This is NOT a Virgil Fox bash, = I=3D =3D20 am a great fan and admirer- I would not be playing today if it weren't = for=3D20 his recordings.=3D20   I believe I have an old LP somewhere with Simon Preston playing it on = one=3D20 side and the Reubke 94th Psalm on the other.   Does anyone know of any good CD recordings of this piece? I believe it = woul=3D d=3D20 make a wonderful selection for the Grande Kilgen.........   SCOTT F. FOPPIANO, Principal Organist and Director of Music and Liturgy THE NATIONAL SHRINE OF THE LITTLE FLOWER, Royal Oak, MI (Geo. Kilgen & Son, St. Louis, MO, Opus 5180, 1933) =3DE2=3D80=3D9CCantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat dicens, fiat cor meum immaculatum ut non confundar.=3DE2=3D80=3D9D     --part1_127.174740b.2882fc1b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#0000a0" SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D3D"0">Does anyone have = recordings of=3D this work which stand out as particularly fine=3D20 <BR>in their opinions? &nbsp;I have, on CD, Virgil Fox at the 1979 = Riverside=3D Concert=3D20 <BR>(Bainbridge) and Mark Laubach at St. John's Lutheran Church in = Allentown=3D , PA=3D20 <BR>(Pro Organo). &nbsp;The Laubach is clearly my favorite. &nbsp;My = reasons=3D are because I=3D20 <BR>find Laubach's playing more sensitive and contrasting instead of mere = vo=3D lume=3D20 <BR>and speed. &nbsp;Also, the recording technology when Virgil did his = Rive=3D rside=3D20 <BR>concert was nowhere near what it is today. &nbsp;This is NOT a Virgil = Fo=3D x bash, I=3D20 <BR>am a great fan and admirer- I would not be playing today if it weren't = f=3D or=3D20 <BR>his recordings.=3D20 <BR> <BR>I believe I have an old LP somewhere with Simon Preston playing it on = on=3D e=3D20 <BR>side and the Reubke 94th Psalm on the other. <BR> <BR>Does anyone know of any good CD recordings of this piece? &nbsp;I = believ=3D e it would=3D20 <BR>make a wonderful selection for the Grande Kilgen......... <BR> <BR><B>SCOTT F. FOPPIANO</B>, Principal Organist and Director of Music and = L=3D iturgy <BR>THE NATIONAL SHRINE OF THE LITTLE FLOWER, Royal Oak, MI <BR>(Geo. Kilgen &amp; Son, St. Louis, MO, Opus 5180, 1933) <BR><I>=3DE2=3D80=3D9CCantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat = dicens, <BR>fiat cor meum immaculatum ut non confundar.=3DE2=3D80=3D9D</I> <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_127.174740b.2882fc1b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Recordings of Liszt "Ad nos, ad salutarum undam" From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:47:32 -0500     --------------74B35958E108576B7040028A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ScottFop@aol.com wrote:   > Does anyone have recordings of this work which > stand out as particularly fine > in their opinions? I have, on CD, Virgil Fox at > the 1979 Riverside Concert > (Bainbridge) and Mark Laubach at St. John's > Lutheran Church in Allentown, PA > (Pro Organo). The Laubach is clearly my > favorite. My reasons are because I > find Laubach's playing more sensitive and > contrasting instead of mere volume > and speed.   My vote would also be for Mark Laubach. IMHO there are no better recordings out there.   John Speller   --------------74B35958E108576B7040028A Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML> ScottFop@aol.com wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT = COLOR=3D"#0000A0"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>Does anyone have recordings of this work which stand out as particularly = fine</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000A0"><FONT = SIZE=3D-1>in their opinions?&nbsp; I have, on CD, Virgil Fox at the 1979 Riverside = Concert</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000A0"><FONT = SIZE=3D-1>(Bainbridge) and Mark Laubach at St. John's Lutheran Church in Allentown, = PA</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000A0"><FONT = SIZE=3D-1>(Pro Organo).&nbsp; The Laubach is clearly my favorite.&nbsp; My reasons are because I</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000A0"><FONT = SIZE=3D-1>find Laubach's playing more sensitive and contrasting instead of mere = volume</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000A0"><FONT = SIZE=3D-1>and speed.</FONT></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> My vote would also be for Mark Laubach.&nbsp; IMHO there are no better recordings out there. <P>John Speller</HTML>   --------------74B35958E108576B7040028A--    
(back) Subject: subs and pay scales From: "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:54:12 -0400     --------------EF4E35E7AC2B72D6CACDA26C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Someone quoted: Sub organist gets $150 per Sunday for the same schedule; sub pastor gets $150 for two simple masses on weekdays, but $250 for a sung mass on = Sunday.   Actual "scale" for Sunday masses (sub pastor) is $200 here, but we go to $250 just to make it more obviously in excess of what the organist gets.   Well, I guess this is why there are so many inept and mediocre organists = playing services. I'm not out to hurt anyone's precious self esteem but = if the shoe fits wear it. There are a lot of really good organist out = there that have called it quits because of this constant lack of professional consideration for the years of experience, and frankly... = The God Given Talent that it takes to do this job. I had a church that = wanted me to play their Christmas Eve Services because they were between = organists. They were all set on me playing, but I never heard any mention of the money, so I politely called them and told them = that no one has mentioned anything, but my rates are $125.00 per service.. = so do the math at 3 services. We're in the country and this is my normal = rate... well, they told me that they could only go $75.00 per service. (Like I was supposed to say Oh..OK... ). I politely told = them.... Oh well, you're welcome to call anyone else that you'd like. I = enjoyed Christmas with my family at our own church!   The real problem is that (the average) churches do not care enough to = recognize talent when they see it, and it's always a matter of, cheaper is = always better. Is there any wonder why people can't stand to sit in = church any more. I've heard so much of "Oh... it's OK... it's for the glory of God"... I'm sorry, I've heard that line from so many = people coming into my choirs (usually people who can not sing) and want to = just do what ever they want and sound like what ever they want, that I = could throw up! If they want to do something for the Glory of God, they should go teach Sunday School!   Bottom line is, If you don't ask for what you want, you'll never get it, = and asking means being prepared to stand your ground when they won't pay = what you're worth!   Wayne Grauel   --------------EF4E35E7AC2B72D6CACDA26C Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Someone quoted: <br><i>Sub organist gets $150 per Sunday for the same schedule; sub pastor gets</i> <br><i>$150 for two simple masses on weekdays, but $250 for a sung mass on Sunday.</i><i></i> <p><i>Actual "scale" for Sunday masses (sub pastor) is $200 here, but we go to</i> <br><i>$250 just to make it more obviously in excess of what the organist gets.</i><i></i> <p>Well, I guess this is why there are so many inept and mediocre = organists playing services.&nbsp; I'm not out to hurt anyone's precious self esteem but if the shoe fits wear it.&nbsp; There are a lot of really good = organist out there that have called it quits because of this constant lack of = professional consideration for the years of experience, and frankly... The God Given Talent that it takes to do this job.&nbsp; I had a church that wanted me to play their Christmas Eve Services because they were between = organists.&nbsp; They were all set on me playing, but I never heard any mention of the = money, so I politely called them and told them that no one has mentioned = anything, but my rates are $125.00 per service.. so do the math at 3 services. We're in the country and this is my normal rate... well, they told me that they could only go $75.00 per service.&nbsp; (Like I was supposed to say = Oh..OK... ).&nbsp; I politely told them.... Oh well, you're welcome to call anyone else that you'd like.&nbsp; I enjoyed Christmas with my family at our own church! <p>The real problem is that (the average) churches do not care enough to recognize talent when they see it, and it's always a matter of, cheaper is always better.&nbsp; Is there any wonder why people can't stand to sit in church any more.&nbsp;&nbsp; I've heard so much of&nbsp; "Oh... it's OK... it's for the glory of God"... I'm sorry, I've heard that line from so many people coming into my choirs (usually people who can not sing) and want to just do what ever they want and sound like what ever they = want, that I could throw up!&nbsp; If they want to do something for the Glory of God, they should go teach Sunday School! <p>Bottom line is, If you don't ask for what you want, you'll never get it, and asking means being prepared to stand your ground when they won't pay what you're worth! <p>Wayne Grauel</html>   --------------EF4E35E7AC2B72D6CACDA26C--    
(back) Subject: Re: if we DO have to pay singers ... From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:37:37 -0400   > From: quilisma@socal.rr.com > Subject: Re: if we DO have to pay singers ... > > Well, Alan, I think the difference there is that our hired guns have to = make > two trips: the weekday rehearsal and the Sunday warm-up and Mass ... = travel is > always a BIG issue in SoCal, and EVERYBODY expects to get paid for time = on the > freeways.   You're totally right, of course. Here it's the opposite. Most of our = choir folk are either in performing arts, which makes evening rehearsal (except Monday, when the theatres are dark) out of the question, or they're = between gigs and waiting tables in the restaurants. So Sunday morning is IT. > > I DO find your comment about wanting to make the pay for a sub pastor = MORE > than > the pay for a sub organist kinda quixotic, though ... there's at LEAST = as much > preparation time and skill required to PLAY a high Lutheran liturgy as = there > is to celebrate and preach at one, isn't there?   Well, yes, that is strange. The best defense I can make of it is that the organist (regular or sub) pay was based on local AGO standards, which made the pastor nervous, because he thought HIS subs' pay should be MUCH more than that of a mere MUSICIAN's. (Which, I agree, is childish.)   As for comparative preparation, that'll vary all over the map. We have = very competent clergy subs available to us, whose preparation, therefore, is zilch beyond the homiletics. As sacristan I frequently see the sermon MS = or notes on the pulpit after mass, and occasionally it's dated three or six years ago (triennial lectionary), and I know it's just warmed over from a previous occasion. But much more often it seems (based on internal = evidence such as relevance to the week's events, etc.) that the sermon has been prepared with considerable care (and even imagination) specifically for = this place at this time. At seminary we were taught that a 20-minute sermon = (par at that time) required 20 hours of preparation. Fourteen to sixteen = minutes is par now. But I can honestly say that the sermons we hear here reflect (almost always) quite a bit of careful prep-time. But I'm sure that MANY parishes get a lot LESS well-prepared sermons than we do. Even we've had some pretty sappy presentations from subs, on rare occasion.   Likewise with the music person. Our present usual sub clearly puts a LOT = of care into her work, and does a FINE job of it. She's a Methodist pastor's daughter, so she's working outside her personal milieu; but she's got two doctorates, one in law and one in music. We don't keep her on regular standby basis because she DOESN'T prepare, I can assure you. But (still "likewise") I'm sure there are sub organists who can play a barely = adequate service with little preparation, and see no reason to do better. But they ain't the ones we engage.   Alan        
(back) Subject: Re: if we DO have to pay singers ... From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:49:11 EDT     --part1_de.176c2223.28833197_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     > At seminary we were taught that a 20-minute sermon (par > at that time) required 20 hours of preparation   And delivering a 20-minute sermon is comparable to an 8-hour workday in = other vocations.   Ministry, whether musical or pastoral, takes a lot of time, preparation, = and energy.   Neil Brown       --part1_de.176c2223.28833197_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">At seminary we = were taught that a 20-minute sermon (par <BR>at that time) required 20 hours of preparation</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>And delivering a 20-minute sermon is comparable to an 8-hour workday = in other <BR>vocations. <BR> <BR>Ministry, whether musical or pastoral, takes a lot of time, = preparation, and <BR>energy. <BR> <BR>Neil Brown &nbsp; <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_de.176c2223.28833197_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Fw: Free Organ From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:55:25 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: betty gemelli <gemelli@mediaone.net> To: VEAGUE <dutchorgan@svs.net> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:32 AM Subject: reply email addy?     > Rick > Can't understand the problem as I have received many E Mail messages = with no > problem > gemelli@mediaone.net > > or are you referring to the location address > Dominguez Adobe - call Fr. Pat, Museum Curator 310-631-5981 to see the organ > > 18127 South Alameda St.-- Compton, CA ( 1 mile south of the 91 freeway exit > at Alameda) > > Since we are in process of doing renovation of our adobe museum we feel the > organ is too big for our needs - do not know if it is working order as = we > have only had it on display. A motor was added and the crank is still > attached - > > We would appreciate a donation (tax deductable for Historical Preservation) > to help in our renovation work in exchange for the organ. > Appreciate all you are doing > Betty > > VEAGUE wrote: > > > Hi- > > > > There have been questions concerning the reply email addy. Please make > > sure it is correct and I'll pass it along. > > > > Rick >    
(back) Subject: singers, preachers, organists From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:14:35 -0700     --------------5CA0AFBAC2A31B8D41605F8F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Agreed.   Likewise, my choir sings ... oh, maybe 20 pages of music a week, which I arrange or compose. I know for a FACT that just the act of ENGRAVING it takes approximately 1 hour per page ... fortunately, like Mozart (grin), I usually write the stuff in my head first, and don't have to make sketches before I engrave the final version ... or I can go from whatever I'm arranging straight to the final version at sight, without making sketches. And now, after a year of using Sibelius, I DO have templates for the chants that repeat with different texts.   Now, I will admit that much writing IS somewhat unusual, but I don't think it REALLY is for someone with a full-time o/c job, at least not in the Anglican Church.   But I think saying that an organist only works for a couple of hours on Sunday is like saying a priest, minister, or rabbi only works for the couple of hours a week people see him/her in services. The clergy do counseling, hospital visitation, home visitation, staff meetings, sermon preparation, planning, church board meetings, etc. etc. etc., and, HOPEFULLY, SOMEWHERE in there have time to PRAY.   Likewise the organist does anthem selection, hymn selection (well, *I* do, anyway), preparation of the service leaflets and liturgy booklets, directs volunteers in the music library, makes house calls to rehearse with absent choir members, or for special solos (I've found that to be VERY effective ... if you don't show up at choir practice, *I* show up on your doorstep) (grin). They're rather come to choir than have to clean house (grin); and, hopefully, SOMEWHERE in there have time to PRAY *and* practice the organ (grin).   I spend an average of six hours a day, five or six days a week, at the computer, doing church stuff ... two in the morning, two in the afternoon, and two in the evening ... I have to rest in between these days. THEN, if I have the ENERGY, I walk the two feet between the computer and my practice organ and at least turn it on and THINK about what I'm going to play next Sunday (grin).   Of course, I AM full-time, and every year when I take the month of July OFF, it DAWNS on them just how much I REALLY do (grin).   Cheers,   Bud-by-the-Beach, who has a HUGE funeral next Thursday, vacation or no vacation   Innkawgneeto@cs.com wrote:   > > >> At seminary we were taught that a 20-minute sermon (par >> at that time) required 20 hours of preparation > > And delivering a 20-minute sermon is comparable to an 8-hour workday > in other > vocations. > > Ministry, whether musical or pastoral, takes a lot of time, > preparation, and > energy. > > Neil Brown >   --------------5CA0AFBAC2A31B8D41605F8F Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> Agreed. <p>Likewise, my choir sings ... oh, maybe 20 pages of music a week, which I arrange or compose. I know for a FACT that just the act of ENGRAVING it takes approximately 1 hour per page ... fortunately, like Mozart = (grin), I usually write the stuff in my head first, and don't have to make = sketches before I engrave the final version ... or I can go from whatever I'm = arranging straight to the final version at sight, without making sketches. And now, after a year of using Sibelius, I DO have templates for the chants that repeat with different texts. <p>Now, I will admit that much writing IS somewhat unusual, but I don't think it REALLY is for someone with a full-time o/c job, at least not in the Anglican Church. <p>But I think saying that an organist only works for a couple of hours on Sunday is like saying a priest, minister, or rabbi only works for the couple of hours a week people see him/her in services. The clergy do = counseling, hospital visitation, home visitation, staff meetings, sermon preparation, planning, church board meetings, etc. etc. etc., and, HOPEFULLY, SOMEWHERE in there have time to PRAY. <p>Likewise the organist does anthem selection, hymn selection (well, *I* do, anyway), preparation of the service leaflets and liturgy booklets, directs volunteers in the music library, makes house calls to rehearse with absent choir members, or for special solos (I've found that to be VERY effective ... if you don't show up at choir practice, *I* show up on your doorstep) (grin). They're rather come to choir than have to clean house (grin); and, hopefully, SOMEWHERE in there have time to PRAY *and* practice the organ (grin). <p>I spend an average of six hours a day, five or six days a week, at the computer, doing church stuff ... two in the morning, two in the afternoon, and two in the evening ... I have to rest in between these days. THEN, if I have the ENERGY, I walk the two feet between the computer and my = practice organ and at least turn it on and THINK about what I'm going to play next Sunday (grin). <p>Of course, I AM full-time, and every year when I take the month of July OFF, it DAWNS on them just how much I REALLY do (grin). <p>Cheers, <p>Bud-by-the-Beach, who has a HUGE funeral next Thursday, vacation or no vacation <p>Innkawgneeto@cs.com wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font = face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>At seminary we were taught that a 20-minute sermon (par</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>at that time) required = 20 hours of preparation</font></font></blockquote>   <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>And = delivering a 20-minute sermon is comparable to an 8-hour workday in = other</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font = size=3D-1>vocations.</font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Ministry, = whether musical or pastoral, takes a lot of time, preparation, = and</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font = size=3D-1>energy.</font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Neil = Brown</font></font></font> <br>&nbsp;</blockquote>   </body> </html>   --------------5CA0AFBAC2A31B8D41605F8F--    
(back) Subject: sub organists' pay versus sub clergy pay From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:29:22 -0700   > Bud wrote: > > > > I DO find your comment about wanting to make the pay for a sub pastor = MORE > > than > the pay for a sub organist kinda quixotic, though ... there's = at LEAST as > much > > preparation time and skill required to PLAY a high Lutheran liturgy as = there > > is to celebrate and preach at one, isn't there?   Alan responded:   > Well, yes, that is strange. The best defense I can make of it is that = the > organist (regular or sub) pay was based on local AGO standards, which = made > the pastor nervous, because he thought HIS subs' pay should be MUCH more > than that of a mere MUSICIAN's. (Which, I agree, is childish.)   Watch that "MERE musician" s***, buster (grin).   I just had to make sure YOU didn't agree with his thinking.   > As for comparative preparation, that'll vary all over the map. We have = very > competent clergy subs available to us, whose preparation, therefore, is > zilch beyond the homiletics. As sacristan I frequently see the sermon = MS or > notes on the pulpit after mass, and occasionally it's dated three or six > years ago (triennial lectionary), and I know it's just warmed over from = a > previous occasion. But much more often it seems (based on internal = evidence > such as relevance to the week's events, etc.) that the sermon has been > prepared with considerable care (and even imagination) specifically for = this > place at this time.   I have subbed VERY little in recent years ... I used to swap benches with = my LCMS friend in the summers, just to have a change of pace. THERE I would put in = a LOT of prep time, because (1) it was a different service, requiring LOTS of = improvised chorale-preludes, and partitias on the Communion chorales, and (2) it was = a FABULOUS organ in a FABULOUS space, and I could do things I COULDN'T do on my tiny = Moller in my tiny Episcopal Church; likewise HE had fun directing our all-paid men's = choir, tiny church and organ notwithstanding.   At that LCMS church, I was paid EXACTLY the same as a substitute pastor: = $200 per service. And my friend was paid the same at MY church.   But years ago when I DID sub around, I DID tend to play my standard = repertoire that I could do in my sleep, since (1) they'd likely never heard it before (my = standard repertoire is like NOBODY else's standard repertoire) (grin), and (2) it = was the safest thing to do on a strange organ in a strange service.   Around these parts, I've never found a sub who was more than barely = adequate, i.e. hymns and Willan (if we were lucky) ... and my choir still regularly tells = me my absences are the occasions of "liturgical adventures" (grin). The one = summer they tried to have High Mass while I was gone convinced them NEVER to try THAT = again (grin).   I have put everything into a format very similar to the organist's edition = of the various Lutheran liturgies ... prayers and music integrated ... but you = still have to know what a Kyrie IS (grin).   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: if we DO have to pay singers ... From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:37:14 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C10D33.41F2AA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I agree with Neil, if you add the word "good" in front of that sentence.   And I might join Alan's church if it wasn't such a long commute, just to = =3D hear some well-prepared and good sermons!   Glenda Sutton   Ministry, whether musical or pastoral, takes a lot of time, =3D preparation, and=3D20 energy.=3D20   Neil Brown =3D20       ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C10D33.41F2AA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I agree with Neil, if you add the = word =3D "good" in=3D20 front of that sentence.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>And I might join Alan's church if it = =3D wasn't such a=3D20 long commute, just to hear some well-prepared and good =3D sermons!</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Glenda Sutton</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = =3D 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=3D20 face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT color=3D3D#000000 face=3D3DArial = lang=3D3D0 =3D size=3D3D2=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">Ministry, whether musical or pastoral, takes a = =3D lot of time,=3D20 preparation, and <BR>energy. <BR><BR>Neil Brown &nbsp;=3D20 <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C10D33.41F2AA00--