PipeChat Digest #2248 - Friday, July 20, 2001
 
Re: Shut up and take the money? longish
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: Waaa-deen #1 RESULTS!
  by "Marika E. Buchberger, LRPS" <marika57@earthlink.net>
Re: No more boring organ music!!!!
  by <Pepehomer@aol.com>
Home Depot and other Happy Clappy's
  by "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net>
Re: pianos in church
  by "David Carter" <david_n_carter@hotmail.com>
Re: No more boring organ music!!!!
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Perils of Pianos in church
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Waaa-deen #1 RESULTS!
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Waaa-deen #1 RESULTS!
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Playing fast and circulation
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Why not?( Continuation?)
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Milwaukee Cathedral article?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Perils of Pianos in church
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Shut up and take the money? longish From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:41:03 -0500   I had a wedding recently where the bride wanted piano for the marches - (traditional - Wagner and Mendelssohn) - because organs reminded her of = funerals (I'm not sure how full organ playing wedding marches sounds like a = funeral). But the mother wanted organ for the preservice music and for seating the mothers, and the soloist was to sing with organ. Only the mother = communicated with me prior to the rehearsal, and I explained to her that the piano = would sound particularly anti-climactic at the most "majestic" part of the = wedding after the variety of timbres the organ would present and the way the organ = would "fill the room". So the mother conspired for me to bring the piano music, = but play the organ during the rehearsal of the marches and just not say = anything. If the bride didn't object, we would use the organ. The bride never said = a word.   By the way - she did say "Contemporary" - you could play Schoenberg, Ives, = even some John Cage at the rehearsal. After all, Mozart is "Classical". Then = if she says, no that isn't what she wanted - you could say, oh, you want more = stuff like the Pachelbel? Then you'd have to "resort" to playing Bach, etc. for = the wedding. ;-)   Margo   Charles Peery wrote:   > I'd be interested in knowing if other people have had this experience = and > what your thoughts are. > > Within two weeks, two brides have contacted me about their WAAA-DEENS = (In > these parts, this is how it comes out of a 22-year old) with similar = adamant > demands. > > The peculiar thing is that both of them reserved large, formal = sanctuaries > (one Methodist, where I serve, another one a local Presbyterian church = where > I will be subbing for this one gig) in churches with well-established > traditional music departments YET they are both vehement that they only = want > piano... NO ORGAN. In one case it was, quote "GOD! NO ORGAN!!" > > Both churches have decent organs (two man. Reuter, three man. Moller) = but > rather dull elderly baby grand pianos. > > Twice the bride at my own church has launched unprovoked into a salvo = over > the phone about wanting the piano and absolutely "NO CLASSICAL MUSIC, = ONLY > CONTEMPORARY." Rather than get into the definition of that at the time, = I > changed the subject and asked if she had thought about what she might = like > for her processional. Her immediate response was "Canon in D, I like > totally LOOOVE that". At this point I didn't know whether to ***t or go > blind, as the saying goes. Instead I just changed the subject AGAIN and = set > up a conference to chat in person. (Can't wait...) > > As a next step, I made some points in my usual > speak-slowly-and-calmly-to-the-bride fashion: > > 1) The pianos aren't really big enough for the space, nor are they > particularly beautiful in sound. > > 2) There are moments in a wedding which require a certain amount of = command > and drama (processional being one example) which I feel would be lacking = on > the little pianos. > > 3) I think piano signals a certain informality and casualness which may > play against their other plans for the occasion. Are they intending a > casual service and will that be reflected in what they are wearing, = etc...? > > Their responses were to simply parrot their same opening phrase "no = organ, I > only want piano" and from the one bride "only CONTEMPORARY music". No = sign > of reflection, no consideration of any other viewpoint. Everything is = VERY > CLEAR, except what I should do next! > > I tend to think of things in a cultural context first, so what are we = seeing > here? Innocence? Ignorance? Rebellion? They go to a non-traditional > church but that building wouldn't hold all their guests? A sort of > reverse-snobbery? I guess that serves me right, I can get pretty snobby > with my own opinions. > > Secondarily, am I just WRONG? Wrong or not, should I just say "this is = not > my kind of gig, find someone else"? > > I belong to the harplist and it's pretty evenly split between those who = say > "Heck, I'll play Elvis tunes, it's the bride's wedding" and those who say > "I'm sorry, but when they hire me, they hire my expertise and taste. = It's > part of the package, like it or not. I won't have anyone thinking that = I > chose tacky music, and that's what people WILL think if I play it." > It's not that I can't play the piano well, though. > > So, do I just play what they want and take the money? A close friend = calls > us (excuse the language) "sluts for Jesus". Just shut up, do what the > customer wants, and take the money, she says. When I hear what brides = (and > clergy!) have actually requested, I admit they stretch the limits of = what > I'd like to hear. On the other hand, how right is it to insert my ego = into > EVERY musical decision? On the other hand, I'm the one playing.... > > What do you all think? > > Chuck Peery > Cincinnati > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Waaa-deen #1 RESULTS! From: "Marika E. Buchberger, LRPS" <marika57@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:45:49 -0400   What is actually rather nifty about organ music for weddings and divorces = is that you'll be assured a lot of repeat clients.. ;)   I used to work for a veterinarian and we had a very special "wet vac" unit = that did the best job at removing everything that could possibly stick to a = wall. Just a suggestion....hehehe....   Glenda, you could also force them to sit through "War of the = Roses"....great movie and to-the-point.....   (runs, ducks and hides)....   Glenda wrote:   > The divorce ceremonies are a little messy for our church, Marika - we = don't > have full-time staff at the church to wash the walls and remove all the > blood, guts, hair and body parts. > > I used to offer a free service to my clients after we completed a > particularly nasty divorce. Limping out of the judge's chambers bruised = and > bleeding, I would tell them that if ever the thought of marriage again > crossed their minds, to make an appointment (they could even tell the > secretary it was an "emergency"), and I would talk them out of it or put = a > gun to their heads and relieve them of the misery to come, free of = charge. > > Glenda Sutton > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: No more boring organ music!!!! From: <Pepehomer@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:59:31 EDT   I actually am starting to see a slight swing in the opposite direction in = my area. It's not a large change, but it suits us well. Here in NW = Georgia, there are SO many contemporary churches that some people are = getting either sick of it or confused on which one to go to.   When some come to my church (LCMS) they find out that our "old" style is = actually quite new and refreshing to them. Most are fascinated that we = have no guitar, no piano (oh, we have one, but no one uses it), no "praise = team" etc. but an organ, which they've never heard other than to back up = the piano. Our attendance has grown from an average of 70 to 100 in about = 3 years - nost say because of the music. We tried a contemporary service = for a while - when attendance dwindled to 3 we decided to scrap it - if = people want contemporary, they have many, MANY alternatives in the area.   Perhaps this is a small counter to the growing warehouse churches popping = up?   Justin Karch Organist, Holy Trinity LCMS Rome, GA  
(back) Subject: Home Depot and other Happy Clappy's From: "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:05:07 -0400   I have a friend who is a Baptist and their center of worship is "praise = band". I have another friend who is a Lutheran Pastor. I remember him = sitting me down to hear the "new Messiah" or what ever it was. (Handel a la Rap). = How disgusting! He is now of the conclusion that most Christian Roak is = not based on scripture but is in fact very secular in nature... Gee, how did he figure = that out?   There is some (if you really look for it) really nice contemporary stuff = out there but the concept of people acting like Mexican jumping beans = every time the name of Jesus is spoken really gets me.   I have explained to my praise band friend that, as a Lutheran, I believe = (in my opinion) worship should be standing before God in humility, and not = jumping up and down in God's face in arrogance!.   Wayne    
(back) Subject: Re: pianos in church From: "David Carter" <david_n_carter@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:24:46   Well said, Bud! I was thinking along your lines, but couldn't come up with =   how I wanted to say it. In my congregation (LDS), we have both piano and organ. Most often, the piano is used to accompany the choir, as the pieces =   the choir performs work better with the piano. Often times, the choir accompanist is not an organist, another reason for using the piano. When I =   sub for the organist, I always use the organ for hymn accompaniment, = except for one hymn which just works better with the piano.   David Carter By-The-American-River in Sacramento     >From: quilisma@socal.rr.com >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: pipechat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: pianos in church >Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:06:19 -0700 > >I had a piano in the organ-loft at Old St. Mary's in Cincinnati, and we >had a professional choir who sang Solemn Mass every Sunday in Latin >(grin). > <SNIP> >every once in awhile we'd do something that went better with the piano, >so I'd use it during Mass. And, of course, the Hamsucki failed with >predictable regularity, so we NEEDED something by way of backup. > >We also had SEVERAL lovely services by candlelight with the piano when >the power failed. > >After I had the stroke, there were Sundays when my legs wouldn't work, >and/or I couldn't sit at the organ without toppling over (grin) ... >still happens occasionally. > >Or we'll sing something that really NEEDS "gospel" stylings, so I'll >play the piano. <SNIP> >Gregorian Psalms with soft piano arpeggios under the reciting notes >sound quite nice (grin). > >Like guitars, I don't think it's the INSTRUMENT that's offensive, but >rather the choice of MUSIC and the style of PLAYING that CAN be. > >Cheers, > >Bud     _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp    
(back) Subject: Re: No more boring organ music!!!! From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:49:38 EDT   Hi Justin:   IMHO you will continue to see a return to tradition, if ministers, and = worship committees have the backbone to communicate the purpose of religiosity in the first instance. Plumbing the world for answers in profane persuits wears thin after a while. Warehouse worship is symptomatic. Remember Jesus story of the seeds? Seeds on barren ground don't produce the desired results do they? No matter how flashy!   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Perils of Pianos in church From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:36:57 EDT   Dear List:   A secular instrument introduced into a worship service may be idiomatic of a much deeper affect. Could it be, a fear of one's own mortality, and lack of trust in that which is unseen? This by people relatively = unchurched or unsynagoged. I have a very strong feeling that it is. To surround one's self with familiar, worldly, and the profane shows a lack in the Faith end of theology, or untaught all together. I also believe it self defeating to = try to attract people on this basis. Knowledge is power, to communicate it adequately is an entirely other thing. In this age of being afraid to = offend anyone, the communication is stymied. People need to know the unvarnished truth. Platitudes just don't work very well.   I hope you see the core of where I'm going with this,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Waaa-deen #1 RESULTS! From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:03:00 EDT     --part1_12e.1b0caa1.2889be44_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/20/01 4:24:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cepeery@earthlink.net writes:     > Yes, Neil, I recently HAVE had someone ask to stop the waa-deen so they = can > play their favorite song on CD.   I quit doing that after a funeral in which the son of the deceased = requested a particular rock song be played from a CD for the recessional. I = explained that I was not comfortable doing this, mainly because I didn't trust electronic equipment. I finally, with the permission of the priest, = agreed to play this song. Time came for the recessional and I hit the button = and the WRONG song began. Not only was it the wrong song but it was one about = a prostitute or real trampy woman. I tried to restart it three times, then gave up and went for the organ. After the funeral the son came up to = get the boombox. I apologized for the problem and suggested he try it. It malfunctioned for him, too (thank heaven!!!).   If they want it, I allow it. But I ain't gunna run the machine!!!   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_12e.1b0caa1.2889be44_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/20/01 4:24:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>cepeery@earthlink.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Yes, Neil, I = recently HAVE had someone ask to stop the waa-deen so they can <BR>play their favorite song on CD.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I quit doing that after a funeral in which the son of the deceased = requested <BR>a particular rock song be played from a CD for the recessional. = &nbsp;&nbsp;I explained <BR>that I was not comfortable doing this, mainly because I didn't trust <BR>electronic equipment. &nbsp;&nbsp;I finally, with the permission of = the priest, agreed <BR>to play this song. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Time came for the recessional and = I hit the button and <BR>the WRONG song began. &nbsp;Not only was it the wrong song but it was = one about a <BR>prostitute or real trampy woman. &nbsp;I tried to restart it three = times, then <BR>gave up and went for the organ. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;After the funeral = the son came up to get <BR>the boombox. &nbsp;I apologized for the problem and suggested he try = it. &nbsp;It <BR>malfunctioned for him, too (thank heaven!!!). <BR> <BR>If they want it, I allow it. &nbsp;But I ain't gunna run the = machine!!! <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_12e.1b0caa1.2889be44_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Waaa-deen #1 RESULTS! From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:03:50 EDT     --part1_c0.176521e4.2889be76_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/20/01 4:29:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marika57@earthlink.net writes:     > Do you guys do divorce ceremonies? You really should consider it for = extra > income. >   Good idea. We could make special arrangements of wedding music, playing them backward!   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_c0.176521e4.2889be76_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/20/01 4:29:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>marika57@earthlink.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Do you guys do = divorce ceremonies? &nbsp;You really should consider it for extra <BR>income. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Good idea. &nbsp;&nbsp;We could make special arrangements of wedding = music, playing <BR>them backward! <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_c0.176521e4.2889be76_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Playing fast and circulation From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:05:26 EDT     --part1_129.1b547a5.2889bed6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/20/01 7:03:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RMB10@aol.com =   writes:     > . I don't like Bigg's playing, I > prefer Virgil's style. To each his or her own. That doesn't make me = right > or wrong. I was merely stating an opinion. I find Newman's playing a = bit > too fast for my taste sometimes, but on certain pieces, it's kind of > exciting. >   Just checking..... do these opinions, like dead fish, stink??? ;-)   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_129.1b547a5.2889bed6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/20/01 7:03:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RMB10@aol.com <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. &nbsp;I don't = like Bigg's playing, I <BR>prefer Virgil's style. &nbsp;To each his or her own. &nbsp;That = doesn't make me right <BR>or wrong. &nbsp;I was merely stating an opinion. &nbsp;I find Newman's = playing a bit <BR>too fast for my taste sometimes, but on certain pieces, it's kind of <BR>exciting. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Just checking..... &nbsp;do these opinions, like dead fish, stink??? = &nbsp;&nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_129.1b547a5.2889bed6_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Why not?( Continuation?) From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:19:34 EDT   Hi Dennis:   And your major point of the day is................?   Ron  
(back) Subject: Re: Milwaukee Cathedral article? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:31:28 EDT     --part1_b7.10f568d1.2889c4f0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/20/01 9:21:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, afreed0904@earthlink.net writes:     > Well, Bruce, it's hardly "the theme of the day." When M. Luther was > replying to requests from small-town clergy for advice on "what to do on =   > Sunday morning," he responded that the mass should be in the vernacular, =   > should include singing of hymns and preaching--and (paraphrasing) "one = more > thing: we should pull the altar out from against the wall so the = celebrant > can stand behind it, facing the people, as was done in ancient times. = But > that can wait a while." >   Thanks, Alan. But I'm not Lutheran and don't like to worship in that way. = I'm happy that Lutherans now can, but many Anglicans don't like it.   I'm happy that "it" did wait a very long while, at least giving me the opportunity to worship for many years without having to stare down the = priest.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_b7.10f568d1.2889c4f0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 7/20/01 9:21:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>afreed0904@earthlink.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">Well, Bruce, it's hardly "the theme of the day." &nbsp;When M. Luther = was <BR>replying to requests from small-town clergy for advice on "what to do = on <BR>Sunday morning," he responded that the mass should be in the = vernacular, <BR>should include singing of hymns and preaching--and (paraphrasing) "one = more <BR>thing: &nbsp;we should pull the altar out from against the wall so the = celebrant <BR>can stand behind it, facing the people, as was done in ancient times. = &nbsp;But <BR>that can wait a while." &nbsp; <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Thanks, Alan. &nbsp;But I'm not Lutheran and don't like to worship in = that way. &nbsp; <BR>I'm happy that Lutherans now can, but many Anglicans don't like it. <BR> <BR>I'm happy that "it" did wait a very long while, at least giving me the =   <BR>opportunity to worship for many years without having to stare down the = priest. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_b7.10f568d1.2889c4f0_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Perils of Pianos in church From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:58:35 EDT   SMG writes:     >Another thing we must continue to re-examine and evaluate is why DO = people >have such intensely violent reactions to even the THOUGHT of organ music? = >Who and what is creating the experiences that LEAD to the abject horror = at >the mere MENTION of the organ? It's NOT a "plot." It IS cause and = effect. >And until we figure it out, and CHANGE it, those reactions will continue = to >hit us like a ton of bricks at the least expected and least desirable moments. <<   Sebastian has a good point that we should examine and evaluate. But I = fear the results will not yield universal, perhaps not even continental, = answers. In metro-America, a stronger presence of higher liturgical churches is and =   has been found for ages. In my region of the South and Southwest, the predominate influence was and is the more "evangelical" presence, particularly Baptist, AG, Pentecostal, etc. Apart from more strict = Catholic liturgy, even Methodist's and Presbyterian's in the South embraced a more relaxed liturgy for years (some still do).   Population centers such as New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc., had = larger churches with more parishoiners/members/congregants/worshipers, = substantial organs and trained organists. In my region of the country our heritage is = an agricultural base which resulted in a scattered populous with many small towns and many small churches. Organs were virtually nonexistent in most = of these country churches (and there were and are thousands of them) until electronic substitutes began to appear. To be sure, the "First (insert = here denomination here) Church" probably had a legitimate instrument in the = larger towns and cities, but even so the cultural preferences among us was considerably different from those in the industrialized regions. Of financial necessity or congregational preference, the piano dominated in worship settings for a preponderance of Southern churches.   Eluding again to Southern culture, funerals were more than a memorial to = the dead. They were social events which demanded attendance from the = community. For many, the only time they heard an organ (or darkened the church door) = was at funerals. These country church organists had little if any training = and the dominant stop was <VIBRATO>. Thus, the funereal association with the organ down south. This is further exacerbated by the current trend of funeral home chapels = in preference to church-sited funerals. Those who preside over the funeral = home organs in my area do little to enhance the popularity of the instrument. Rock of Ages, Abide With Me, How Great Thou Art, and Amazing Gracie with Wurlitzer-like Tibia = tremulants ablaze do little to dispel this myth that organs must sound funereal. = (For my fellow theatre organ enthusiasts, this is NOT a slam of theatre organs. = I luv 'em).   As a final point, more and more churches "down South" are adopting the Praze-Band musical influence. Those of the dominate marrying age were = raised on this (how can I be kind) stuff and associate it as the norm. Since = this is their lineage, are we to be overly surprised at their nuptial requests? = Even with a fairly extensive musical underpinning, I find it rather impossible to separate Christian-Rock from the non-hyphenated variety. = Among many of the younger set, I question whether they know a difference exists.   I do not consider the piano an affront in church settings. The Ole 88 has =   faithfully served many for years and should not be condemned for being = what it really is. As with all things, its the way it is employed that = determines its worth and value. If it were not for the piano many, many churches = would have had no instrument at all.   Here's a sobering thought. Roll the clock ahead about ten to fifteen = years when all the clergy will have come from this same rock culture base. Will =   our concerns for propriety even have an audience then?   I hope so.   Begging forgiveness for the length of this post,   Jim Pitts