PipeChat Digest #2254 - Sunday, July 22, 2001
 
Projections, was Re: Perils of Pianos in church
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
Re: Projections, was Re: Perils of Pianos in church
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Perils of Pianos in church
  by <PHarri5833@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Projections, was Re: Perils of Pianos in church From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:38:56 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0069_01C11235.ED6B8DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   MessageYou know, it's ironic, but the pastor at the church I serve just = =3D brought up this idea this morning during a meeting. I found out later =3D he was referring to the Praise service, which is only once a month. He = =3D felt that use of the screen would get people's eyes up and on the altar = =3D for better interaction. I can't say I disagree, and the savings on =3D paper is another good reason. Personally, I think as long as the people = =3D are coming to worship, that's all that matters. But, Josh, I wouldn't =3D say that church isn't tradition anymore..there are churches that are =3D not, and there are churches that are militantly so. Just depends. =3D Hopefully, there are a majority of pastors that still hold the liturgy =3D as sacred and not to be trifled with.   Jeff   ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Josh Edwards=3D20 To: 'PipeChat'=3D20 Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 8:41 AM Subject: RE: Perils of Pianos in church     Allan,   Our church uses the projection screen to project the hymns on the =3D wall. However, we DO have hymnals in the pews as well. And yes, people = =3D still use the hymnals. I also see this as an act of laziness. Our =3D society is just plain lazy. Projecting the hymns is just another way of = =3D saying, "Well, I don't have to hold that heavy hymnal anymore!" I think = =3D it's a good idea, but when are we going to stop catering to the wants of = =3D the people? I know worship is supposed to be a joint thing, but isn't =3D the pastor supposed to be the leader? I really like tradition, and, =3D well, church isn't tradition anymore.   Josh Edwards   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf = =3D Of Alan Freed Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:09 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Perils of Pianos in church     From: Myosotis51@aol.com Subject: Re: Perils of Pianos in church     At the church where my son attends in California they project the = =3D words and=3D20 when a hymn is up there, the singing, in my opinion, is just plain = =3D better.=3D20     Perhaps that way all the noses aren't buried in the hymnals, and =3D voices=3D20 project.....=3D20     You're right, of course. But I'm a bit concerned about the folks =3D who like to read through the hymns during the prelude (or even earlier) = =3D each Sunday. And/Or meditate on them during communion. I think that =3D you ought to provide hymnals in the pews even IF you project the words =3D on the wall as well. (Which I've never seen done, but it strikes me as = =3D a bit odd. And we couldn't do it anyway; our walls are occupied with =3D other things: windows, paintings, gilt, stencilwork, an organ, banners, = =3D etc.)   Alan=3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0069_01C11235.ED6B8DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>You know, it's ironic, but the pastor = =3D at the church=3D20 I serve just brought up this idea this morning during a meeting.&nbsp; I = =3D found=3D20 out later he was referring to the Praise service, which is only once = a=3D20 month.&nbsp; He felt that use of the screen would get people's eyes up =3D and on=3D20 the altar for better interaction.&nbsp; I can't say I disagree, and the = =3D savings=3D20 on paper is another good reason.&nbsp; Personally, I think as long as =3D the people=3D20 are coming to worship, that's all that matters.&nbsp; But, Josh, I =3D wouldn't say=3D20 that church isn't tradition anymore..there are churches that are not, =3D and there=3D20 are churches that are militantly so.&nbsp; Just depends.&nbsp; =3D Hopefully, there=3D20 are a majority of pastors that still hold the liturgy as sacred and not = =3D to be=3D20 trifled with.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Jeff</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3Dfbcorganist@att.net =3D href=3D3D"mailto:fbcorganist@att.net">Josh=3D20 Edwards</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">'PipeChat'</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 21, 2001 = =3D 8:41=3D20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Perils of Pianos = =3D in=3D20 church</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D550103813-21072001><FONT face=3D3DArial =3D color=3D3D#0000ff=3D20 size=3D3D2>Allan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D550103813-21072001><FONT face=3D3DArial =3D color=3D3D#0000ff=3D20 size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D550103813-21072001><FONT face=3D3DArial =3D color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>Our=3D20 church uses the projection screen to project the hymns on the =3D wall.&nbsp;=3D20 However, we DO have hymnals in the pews as well.&nbsp; And yes, people = =3D still=3D20 use the hymnals.&nbsp; I also see this as an act of laziness.&nbsp; =3D Our=3D20 society is just plain lazy.&nbsp; Projecting the hymns is just another = =3D way of=3D20 saying, "Well, I don't have to hold that heavy hymnal anymore!"&nbsp; = =3D I think=3D20 it's a good idea, but when are we going to stop catering to the wants = =3D of the=3D20 people?&nbsp; I know worship is supposed to be a joint thing, but =3D isn't the=3D20 pastor supposed to be the leader?&nbsp; I really like tradition, and, = =3D well,=3D20 church isn't tradition anymore.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D550103813-21072001><FONT face=3D3DArial =3D color=3D3D#0000ff=3D20 size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D550103813-21072001><FONT face=3D3DArial =3D color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>Josh=3D20 Edwards</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D550103813-21072001><FONT face=3D3DArial =3D color=3D3D#0000ff=3D20 size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=3D3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3D3Den-us dir=3D3Dltr =3D align=3D3Dleft><FONT=3D20 face=3D3DTahoma size=3D3D2>-----Original = Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=3D20 pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] <B>On Behalf Of = =3D   </B>Alan Freed<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:09 =3D AM<BR><B>To:</B>=3D20 PipeChat<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Perils of Pianos in=3D20 church<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><B>From: =3D </B>Myosotis51@aol.com<BR><B>Subject:=3D20 </B>Re: Perils of Pianos in church<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D3D2><FONT face=3D3DArial>At the church where = my =3D son=3D20 attends in California they project the words and <BR>when a hymn =3D is up=3D20 there, the singing, in my opinion, is just plain better.=3D20 <BR></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D3D2><FONT=3D20 face=3D3DArial><BR></FONT></FONT><FONT color=3D3D#0000a0><FONT=3D20 face=3D3D"Comic Sans MS">Perhaps that way all the noses aren't buried = =3D in the=3D20 hymnals, and voices <BR>project.....</FONT></FONT> =3D <BR><BR><BR>You're right,=3D20 of course. &nbsp;But I'm a bit concerned about the folks who like to = =3D read=3D20 through the hymns during the prelude (or even earlier) each = Sunday.=3D20 &nbsp;And/Or meditate on them during communion. &nbsp;I think that =3D you ought=3D20 to provide hymnals in the pews even IF you project the words on the = =3D wall as=3D20 well. &nbsp;(Which I've never seen done, but it strikes me as a bit = =3D odd.=3D20 &nbsp;And we couldn't do it anyway; our walls are occupied with =3D other=3D20 things: &nbsp;windows, paintings, gilt, stencilwork, an organ, =3D banners,=3D20 etc.)<BR><BR>Alan </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0069_01C11235.ED6B8DA0--    
(back) Subject: Re: Projections, was Re: Perils of Pianos in church From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:42:29 EDT     --part1_d1.9b170f7.288ba5a5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   One thing about projections to be mindful of...   IMHO, I find them to be somewhat exclusive-izing (i made that up, sorry). = If a person does not know the tune, he/she may not be able to participate in = the singing as well as if he/she had a hymnal with notes.   Whenever I've gone to a church with screens and projection (and I have a = good ear), I have felt somewhat "left out".   Both/and can be helpful.   Neil   --part1_d1.9b170f7.288ba5a5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2>One thing about projections to be mindful of... <BR> <BR>IMHO, I find them to be somewhat exclusive-izing (i made that up, = sorry). &nbsp;If <BR>a person does not know the tune, he/she may not be able to participate = in the <BR>singing as well as if he/she had a hymnal with notes. <BR> <BR>Whenever I've gone to a church with screens and projection (and I have = a good <BR>ear), I have felt somewhat "left out". <BR> <BR>Both/and can be helpful. <BR> <BR>Neil</FONT></HTML>   --part1_d1.9b170f7.288ba5a5_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Perils of Pianos in church From: <PHarri5833@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 02:37:30 EDT     --part1_3e.eb97a2b.288bceaa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 21/07/01 21:45:13 GMT Daylight Time, Cremona502@cs.com writes:   > In a message dated 7/21/01 3:29:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > jakorns@home.com > writes: > > >> >> to go look at churches that do not have organs. > > Well DAH! But you make it sound as though small country churches did = not > have organs until appliances entered the scene. There are a goodly = number > of organs in small out of the way places in their original home dating = from > the 1800s. For instance: > ..... and please don't forget this is an international mail list. I guess = here in Lancs UK, I am another person who talking about "east of the = Mississippi", but perhaps also west depending which way round the planet you go to reach =   me. We certainly have plenty of small churches with pipe organs, some good =   and others less so.   A point not so far raised is the general assumption that if a piano is to = be used that it will be us "the organist" who plays it. Whilst I can produce = a form of music from a piano, I do not class myself a pianist. I gave up serious piano study many years ago and if I have any skill at all it is = with the organ. Of course many churches may have only one keyboard musician to play organs, pianos, synthesisers, harpsichords, keyed glockenspiels, harmoniums, American organs (does that term get used in the US?) and = whatever else might be used but very few can be equally proficient with all these = very different skills.   Peter   Peter M Harrison Emmanuel Church, Holcombe Ramsbottom, Lancashire, GB & P H Music tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 fax: +44 (0)1204 853445 web http://user.aol.com/phmusic1/phm.htm   --part1_3e.eb97a2b.288bceaa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 21/07/01 21:45:13 GMT Daylight Time, Cremona502@cs.com <BR>writes: <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">In a message dated = 7/21/01 3:29:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>jakorns@home.com <BR>writes: <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just to stoke the issue, may I suggest that obviously the = OHS is not going <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BLOCKQUOTE = TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <BR>to go look at churches that do not have organs. </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BR>Well DAH! &nbsp;But you make it sound as though small country churches = did not <BR>have organs until appliances entered the scene. &nbsp;&nbsp;There are = a goodly number <BR>of organs in small out of the way places in their original home dating = from <BR>the 1800s. &nbsp;&nbsp;For instance: <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>.... and please don't forget this is an international mail list. I = guess here <BR>in Lancs UK, I am another person who talking about "east of the = Mississippi", <BR>but perhaps also west depending which way round the planet you go to = reach <BR>me. We certainly have plenty of small churches with pipe organs, some = good <BR>and others less so. <BR> <BR>A point not so far raised is the general assumption that if a piano is = to be <BR>used that it will be us "the organist" who plays it. Whilst I can = produce a <BR>form of music from a piano, I do not class myself a pianist. I gave up =   <BR>serious piano study many years ago and if I have any skill at all it = is with <BR>the organ. Of course many churches may have only one keyboard musician = to <BR>play organs, pianos, synthesisers, harpsichords, keyed glockenspiels, <BR>harmoniums, American organs (does that term get used in the US?) and = whatever <BR>else might be used but very few can be equally proficient with all = these very <BR>different skills. <BR> <BR>Peter <BR> <BR>Peter M Harrison <BR>Emmanuel Church, Holcombe <BR>Ramsbottom, Lancashire, GB <BR>&amp; P H Music <BR>tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 <BR>fax: +44 (0)1204 853445 <BR>web http://user.aol.com/phmusic1/phm.htm</FONT></HTML>   --part1_3e.eb97a2b.288bceaa_boundary--