PipeChat Digest #2171 - Wednesday, June 27, 2001
 
Off topic question...
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: Strange Preludes
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
RE: Bach Toccata and Fugue in d minor
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re:  Toccata and Fugue in d minor
  by "Ken and Chris Potter" <tracker@j51.com>
Toccata and Fugue in D minor
  by "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net>
Re: Toccata and Fugue in D minor(And Bruce Prince Joseph)
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Toccata and Fugue in d minor
  by <AMADPoet@aol.com>
Re: Toccata and Fugue in D minor(And Bruce Prince Joseph)
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Off topic question...
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Strange Preludes
  by "Caroline Bryan, OSB" <cbryan@benedictine.edu>
Re: Strange Preludes
  by "Robert Ehrhardt" <r_ehrh@bellsouth.net>
Help: Wedding
  by <CdyVanpool@aol.com>
Re: Help: Wedding
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Help: Wedding
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Help: Wedding
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Off topic question... From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:03:52 -0500   Excuse the off-topic request - but I know many of you are into mechanical instruments of other kinds and such.... I need to find someone who repairs Music Boxes. I have an antique music box that I desparately want to have fixed, and I can't believe that there isn't one around since I live in one of the largest metroplexes in the US. So, if any of you around the Dallas/Forth Worth metroplex or any parts within 100 miles of here could tell me anyone who repairs these or of a mailing list or other resource that might have this info.   Please reply privately.   Please excuse the interruption.   Thank you! Thank you! Margo    
(back) Subject: Re: Strange Preludes From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:10:16 EDT   Mike Swaldo writes:     >What are some of the strangest things anyone has done for service music? >Yesterday, I played "Old McDonald had a Farm." I played it in a = "churchy," >chorale prelude style. A few people noticed, but most didn't.<<   Mike, years ago I did "O Where, O Where Has Your Little Dog Gone" on a = dare from other music majors who comprised much of the choir and ended it on a flatted seventh. After the service, a keyboard major waited by the = console until I finished the Postlude, then drew the softest Dulciana and resolved =   the seventh to a major triad. He said it would be torture to carry that chord around in his head all week.   This is about as far as I have pushed the envelope. (But it was a fun = thing to do and I am confident God has forvigen me this frivolity).   Jim Pitts  
(back) Subject: RE: Bach Toccata and Fugue in d minor From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:50:09 -0500   I recall hearing it played at the end of a chapel service when I was a college student (A-S III/65, 1940) by the university organist. I had a bunch of relatives in tow, and we were among the rapt hundreds who stayed through the entire t&f. I can recall the scene and the music from that = day with great detail.   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: Carlo Pietroniro [mailto:organist@total.net] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 6:26 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Bach Toccata and Fugue in d minor     in all the years I've been playing, I've never played it in church. In my eyes, it's a concert piece. I suppose you could get away with playing the fugue, but I'd rather play it in concert, that way the audience is = sitting, and they can enjoy it. If it's played as either a prelude or a postlude, people aren't paying attention, especially if it's a postlude..........   Carlo     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Toccata and Fugue in d minor From: "Ken and Chris Potter" <tracker@j51.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:00:45 -0400   I finally found the perfect Sunday for the T & F: Pentecost! I see absolutely nothing wrong with playing it as a postlude - and loud. I once heard it split with the Toccata played as the prelude and the Fugue played for a postlude at none less than the famous St. Jakobikirche in Hamburg. = It was dazzling on that wonderful Schnitger.   I love to give my congregation something to send them dancing out of the church feeling joy. To me, that's the reason for the postlude. Yesterday we had our annual church picnic, so I sent folks out to the "March in C" = by Lefebure-Wely (from the Oxford Wedding Book). After all, it's summer.   Preludes on the other hand are kept dead serious and prayerful in mood. = In the Episcopal Church it is customary to kneel and pray before the service, and the music should not get in the way of this. However, we go full guns on the recessional hymn, adding the zimbelstern and whatever else. Then I launch full-tilt into the postlude. While the postlude is cranking, our tower bells are wildly pealing English rounds and changes at breakneck speed. The whole purpose is to let people go out feeling dazzled with the joy of being a christian, sending them out into the secular world renewed. I love the sound of coming out of a church while the organ is playing and then being overwhelmed by the overlapping sound of bells. (Not that I'd ever walk out on the postlude!). At weddings, when it is time for the recessional I signal the tower and the bells start rapidly descending rounds. After about four rounds, I launch into the recessional with the bells continuing in changes.   As far as the overfamiliarity of the T & F, I think anything that is immediately and joyously recognized by children big and little, is a good thing. So much of the postludial material that we do has nothing to do = with the experience of children outside of church. As many times as I have = heard the Widor Toccata, It still thrills me to hear it played excitingly. = People react to unfamiliar organ music the same as they do to an unfamiliar hymn. They are just puzzled till they get to know it. They need the occasional very familiar piece.   I'm not into gloom and doom and could never work at a church that = emphasizes guilt and sorrow.   He is risen. Let's celebrate! I am fortunate to play in a church where = not one person has ever suggested that I play too loudly, and I am not afraid = of the sforzando stud.   If you want a great idea for a prelude for the last Sunday before your vacation, try "Offertoire" by Leon Boellman, which is seemingly based on = the old chorale tune "I'll See You In My Dreams."   I am told that Dorothy Papadakos once did an improvisation on "Roll Out = The Barrel" at a Sunday service. Why the heck not?     Ken   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~ Kenneth G. Potter, Organist, Director of Music Home = 845/358-2528 St. Peter's Episcopal Church, Westchester Square Church = 718/931-9270 2500 Westchester Avenue, Bronx, New York 10461 e-mail = tracker@j51.com Austin Op. 2097 at: = http://www.nycago.org/Organs/html/StPetersEpBronx.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~    
(back) Subject: Toccata and Fugue in D minor From: "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:37:47 -0700   >played the Bach Toccata and Fugue in D minor at a service and what were the results.   Now I reveal myself as a true Philistine.   I love the Tocatta and Fugue in D minor. My favorite recording of it is = by Bruce Prince Joseph. I heard the Schwietzer interpretation of it, and = said to myself, "yeah, yeah, that's it!" So when I play it, I hear man = calling, I hear the trumpet, and then I hear as God's plan unfolds in the fugue.   The other day, I was just goofing around while the trustees were working = in the building, and played a bit of the tocatta just to loosen up. One of = the ladies came to me and said, "O, I love that -- when will you play it for a service?"   So I love it, and most people love it. It's fun to play, it sounds BIG. = It may not have the great theological impact of some other pieces, or the technical demands of others, but it is good organ music, and worthy to be played.   Go For IT! But do it well.   Dennis      
(back) Subject: Re: Toccata and Fugue in D minor(And Bruce Prince Joseph) From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:20:14 EDT   Hi List:   I just checked my copy of the Organists Book of Days and Bruce=20 Prince Joseph isn't listed in the index. He was very prominent at one time, and just faded away. Is there anybody that can fill in the gaps? There were some albums of music that he edited that were quite interesting.   Bach himself along with Albert Schweitzer, probably would be considered slow, thoughtful players. European players between those two periods at the very least took great care with articulation, phrasing, ornaments etc. and played organs in buildings where live acoustics reigned. Counter- point becomes a miserable blur at high speeds. and the point of the music entirely missed. You don't jog down a seven course meal in five minutes, why do it to music, except for an ego trip. Schweitzer for all the hits he's taken, and Widor who played his Toccata from the fifth Sym. slow, in a recording were right. The remark made about Widor was that he was old, checking the original makings he was right on target. Scholarship is one thing, and egoship is mostly the opposite.=20   According to E. Power Biggs, and it makes perfect sense to me, used to trot out this particular piece, T&F in D minor, to test the lungs of an orga= n and interplay with the live acoustics of a given building. A totally dead room won't do much with this piece. A nice well temper organ helps too.   I see organ builders time after time slavishly build organs with supposedly Baroque scales and voicing, and you guessed it tuned in equal. It makes absolutely no sense. These instruments sound clashy and hard and don't blend very well. Bach organs of the period were tuned in 1/4 Comma Meantone, some in 1/5th and 1/6th. Cone tuning in Equal also seals the fate of most of these Baroque copies. French organs of the 17th and 18th centuries the same, some form of meantone. I guess what I'm saying is, if you're going to build for a specific repertoir, tune it specifically for=20 the best results not standard conventions. We are kidding ourselves otherwise.   The average Joe and Mary, and Orchestral Conductors are Ho Hum at best about our instrument, Why is that? There is an answer? Think about it!   Regards,   Ron Severin     http://www.musicbase.org/E/SEV001.html http://www.churchorgansystems.com.html/products Fax:1-208-439-6781 Church Organ Systems of Orange County J=E4ger und Brommer Orgelbau St. Mary's by the Sea  
(back) Subject: Re: Toccata and Fugue in d minor From: <AMADPoet@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:54:57 EDT   In a message dated 6/26/01 11:59:43 AM Central Daylight Time, = tracker@j51.com writes:   << I'm not into gloom and doom and could never work at a church that emphasizes guilt and sorrow. He is risen. Let's celebrate! >>   Well said! I grew up in the Church of Christ- no organ (or any other instruments, of course) but it seems that in the hardest times we sang the =   loudest. I don't know about the adults, but that's something I remember = from my childhood, and feel grateful for.   Mandy  
(back) Subject: Re: Toccata and Fugue in D minor(And Bruce Prince Joseph) From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:51:02 -0500       RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Hi List: > > I just checked my copy of the Organists Book of Days and Bruce > Prince Joseph isn't listed in the index. He was very prominent at > one time, and just faded away. Is there anybody that can fill in the > gaps?   Dr. Bruce Prince-Joseph is O/CM at "Old" St. Mary's Church in Kansas City, = MO.   ns    
(back) Subject: Re: Off topic question... From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:49:53 -0500   Margo-   I don't know anyone in your area for music boxes, but the Mechanical Music Digest is very good for resources. Key it up on any search engine.   Good luck,   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: Strange Preludes From: "Caroline Bryan, OSB" <cbryan@benedictine.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:55:35 -0500   Not for a prelude, but for offertory a few weeks ago I played "Hole in the Wall", an English country dance tune from my disreputable past. Started softly and worked up to medium soft (our priest has a hearing problem and finds loud organ acutely painful). The Sisters had no idea what it was and loved it. It *is* dainty.   S. Caroline The Mount cbryan@benedictine.edu    
(back) Subject: Re: Strange Preludes From: "Robert Ehrhardt" <r_ehrh@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:33:57 -0500   Well, I used to be infamaous for my Grand Toccata on "Never on Sunday" for the Episcopalians and a sprightly March on "Onward, Christian Soldiers" at the Temple. But please, not a word...   Robert Ehrhardt Noel Memorial UMC Shreveport, LA USA http://members.scorchmusic.com/robertehrhardt      
(back) Subject: Help: Wedding From: <CdyVanpool@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:26:05 EDT   I have a wedding, at the church, I have to play for Saturday night. I do = not know these people very well. They are members of the church but, I am not aquatinted with them. They asked me SUNDAY if I would play for their ceremony. No rehearsal...was sounding okay. Easy $125. WRONG. They want Celtic music before the service. All I know is "SLANE". .....<G> I have searched Scorch....one piece I might could use the melody. Does anybody know of any Celtic music? Where do I get it? We don't have many Celtic stores here in Bowie....<G> Are there any other Celtic hymns? AND I thought this would be easy money..... if all else fails, I can use = that orchestral flute on the expander w/tremulant and just "wander" around and sound mystical....LOL Now I am getting out of control. Weddings........ Van  
(back) Subject: Re: Help: Wedding From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:40:01 EDT     --part1_8c.891bb55.286aaf91_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Welcome to the WackyWorld'oWeddings!!!   There is a really neat Celtic site at < http://www.worshipmusic.com >   There are bunches of Celtic hymns, such as Be Thou My Vision (Slane), The King of Love My Shepherd Is (St. Colomba), Jesus, Lover of My Soul (Aberystwyth); Morning Has Broken (Bunessan); I Heard the Voice of Jesus =   Say (Kingsfold); All Things Bright and Beautiful (Royal Oak); Let All = Things Now Living (Ash Grove); I Sing the Mighty Power of God (Forest Green); = Once to Every Man and Nation (Ton y Botel); and Amazing Grace.   There is a wonderful video put out by Brentwood Music which you might be = able to find at your public library. It has the above hymns played on period instruments which would be helpful to you in creating your own = arrangements (no music to buy!!!), meanwhile you get to look at beautiful Irish = scenery. I recommend buying it to have at home. It's really a very soothing and wonderful video.   Actually, this wedding sounds like it could be a very easy $125!!   Good luck, and let us know what happens.       Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_8c.891bb55.286aaf91_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Welcome to the = WackyWorld'oWeddings!!! <BR> <BR>There is a really neat Celtic site at &lt; http://www.worshipmusic.com = &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp; <BR> <BR>There are bunches of Celtic hymns, such as Be Thou My Vision (Slane), = The <BR>King of Love My Shepherd Is (St. Colomba), &nbsp;Jesus, Lover of My = Soul <BR>(Aberystwyth); Morning Has Broken (Bunessan); &nbsp;&nbsp;I Heard the = Voice of Jesus <BR>Say (Kingsfold); All Things Bright and Beautiful (Royal Oak); Let All = Things <BR>Now Living (Ash Grove); I Sing the Mighty Power of God (Forest Green); = Once <BR>to Every Man and Nation (Ton y Botel); and Amazing Grace. <BR> <BR>There is a wonderful video put out by Brentwood Music which you might = be able <BR>to find at your public library. &nbsp;&nbsp;It has the above hymns = played on period <BR>instruments which would be helpful to you in creating your own = arrangements <BR>(no music to buy!!!), meanwhile you get to look at beautiful Irish = scenery. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;I recommend buying it to have at home. &nbsp;It's really a very = soothing and <BR>wonderful video. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR> <BR>Actually, this wedding sounds like it could be a very easy $125!! <BR> <BR>Good luck, and let us know what happens.</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> = <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_8c.891bb55.286aaf91_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Help: Wedding From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:41:14 EDT   Hi Van:   Celtic Bagpipers might be in order, at a bit extra cost. Danny Boy a bit tacky but in a pinch.....go for it! Only if you are despirate, Wild Irish=20 Rose! There are Celtic flute players around, but it is a specialty. Most are playe= d in minor, or in modes. Harp player also might work. If a Liturgical Service like a Eucharist, The Haugen Celtic Mass. St Patrick's Breast Plate tune also comes to mind 7 verses, combines several different tunes in one hymn. If Catholic: The three hymn specialty, Mother dearest Mother Fairest,=20 The May crowning hymn, and Holy God, We Praise thy Name. Oh and=20 don't forget Ave Maria, Schubert or Bach/Gounod. I think this covers the Orange and the Green. Have fun, charge $50.00 more for short notice, and have fun.   Regards,   Ron Severin   http://www.musicbase.org/E/SEV001.html http://www.churchorgansystems.com.html/products Fax:1-208-439-6781 Church Organ Systems of Orange County J=E4ger und Brommer Orgelbau St. Mary's by the Sea  
(back) Subject: Re: Help: Wedding From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:52:38 -0700   If you're near a BIG library, check for "Old Irish Hymns", published by McLaughlin & Reilly. If you're DESPERATE, give me a fax number ... I think = I can still find my copy, MAYBE.   Cheers,   Bud   CdyVanpool@aol.com wrote:   > I have a wedding, at the church, I have to play for Saturday night. I do = not > know these people very well. They are members of the church but, I am = not > aquatinted with them. They asked me SUNDAY if I would play for their > ceremony. No rehearsal...was sounding okay. Easy $125. > WRONG. > They want Celtic music before the service. All I know is "SLANE". = .....<G> > I have searched Scorch....one piece I might could use the melody. Does > anybody know of any Celtic music? Where do I get it? > We don't have many Celtic stores here in Bowie....<G> > Are there any other Celtic hymns? > AND I thought this would be easy money..... if all else fails, I can use = that > orchestral flute on the expander w/tremulant and just "wander" around = and > sound mystical....LOL > Now I am getting out of control. Weddings........ > Van > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org