PipeChat Digest #1870 - Thursday, March 8, 2001
 
Re: hand pumping
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Picketing of Felix Hell, and the conservatives
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Felix Hell to be picketed in Topeka, Kansas
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
tractors, hand pumps, windmills, and tilting at same (grin)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
God Hates Nobody
  by "DanielW Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
Re: hand pumping
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: tractors, hand pumps, windmills, and tilting at same (grin)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Picketing of Felix Hell, and the conservatives
  by <Mozart609@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: hand pumping From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:03:00 -0800   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_4603464= =3D=3D_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed   At 01:51 PM 3/8/2001 -0500, you wrote: >In a digitally modeled organ WIND is not even possible, much less = unsteady >wind.<snip>   Wrong...again.   >And I can think of better uses for the handle on one of these >digitoids!! ;-) <snip>   Yes...like using it as a crank to turn a permanent magnet generator to power bReWsE's computer, since he eschews electricity otherwise. For big jobs, the handle could be turned by the horses he uses to get around town   DeserTBoB --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_4603464= =3D=3D_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii"   <html> At 01:51 PM 3/8/2001 -0500, you wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica" = size=3D2>In a digitally modeled organ WIND is not even possible, much less unsteady wind.&lt;snip&gt;</font></blockquote><br> Wrong...again.<br> <br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica" = size=3D2>And I can think of better uses for the handle on one of these digitoids!!&nbsp; ;-) &lt;snip&gt;</font></blockquote><br> Yes...like using it as a crank to turn a permanent magnet generator to power bReWsE's computer, since he eschews electricity otherwise.&nbsp; For big jobs, the handle could be turned by the horses he uses to get around town<br> <br> DeserTBoB</html>   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_4603464= =3D=3D_.ALT--    
(back) Subject: Re: Picketing of Felix Hell, and the conservatives From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:08:46 -0800   At 10:56 AM 3/8/2001 -0800, you wrote: >I lay the blame squarely on the doorstep of the Religious "Right" and the >ultra-conservative wing of the Republican Party.<snip>   WooHOO! Go BuuD! Tell it like it is!   Off to search for more pineapple hairdos and other anomalies on TBN,   dB    
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Hell to be picketed in Topeka, Kansas From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:21:52 -0800     --------------FBC3D1607E450910F4474591 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit       Innkawgneeto@cs.com wrote:   > This is highly off topic, but people are people. There are as many > radical > pro-gay as anti.   Perhaps, but I'm not aware of any members of Queer Nation conducting terrorist activities against non-gay people. Can the same be said for the radical Religious Right? I think not.   > There are as many racist African Americans as white. There > are as many musical snobs who love gospel as there are who love > classical. > > People are people. Sin is sin regardless of who does it. Racism is > racism, > regardless of who holds it. Hate is hate, and that is anti-God, > period. God > is love. > > I may not like what you do, but as a Christian I am supposed to love > you. > Love does not mean accepting behavior or attitudes, just accepting the > > person.   Bishop Spong: "I have never known a recipient of this kind of 'love' who didn't feel demeaned and degraded." I agree.   > My conservative views make me no less loving than another person's > views. > And my sin is still sin!! > > A few months ago, some, in this list, were more concerned about organ > pipes > being wielded against a terrorist in a German church than we were > about those > poor parishioners that had to endure that attack!! Pipes can be > replaced, > people cannot. > > I think the teenagers have it right. We need more WWJD in every > aspect of > our lives, mine included.   Our Lord has already told us what He would do in the case of gay people: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Search the Gospels. If He had thought it merited all the attention the Religious "Right" is giving it, surely He would have SAID something about it. He didn't.   For the rest, read the original Hebrew and/or Greek. The purported anti-gay passages are mistranslations at best. Every modern Biblical translator has the agenda of the group funding his work looking over his shoulder. For instance, the "translators" of the New King James Version had to sign a document pledging that they WOULDN'T find any "new" interpretations or translations while doing their work, WHETHER THEY IN FACT DID OR DIDN'T.   A seminary professor: "there are three hundred and something references to heterosexuality in the Bible; there are seven (purported) references to homosexuality; it's not that God loves heterosexuals LESS; He just felt they needed more SUPERVISION." (chuckle)   > I'm done, and ducking. > Neil Brown   I'm glad this topic is airing on PipeChat ... it's high time the organists' community took their heads out of the sand and realized that the activities of the Right AFFECT us and OUR jobs.   Cheers,   Bud Clark       --------------FBC3D1607E450910F4474591 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> &nbsp; <p>Innkawgneeto@cs.com wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font = size=3D-1>This is highly off topic, but people are people.&nbsp; There are as many = radical</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>pro-gay as = anti.</font></font></blockquote> Perhaps, but I'm not aware of any members of Queer Nation conducting = terrorist activities against non-gay people. Can the same be said for the radical Religious Right? I think not. <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font = size=3D-1>&nbsp;There are as many racist African Americans as white.&nbsp; There</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>are as many musical = snobs who love gospel as there are who love classical.</font></font> <p><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>People are people.&nbsp; Sin is sin regardless of who does it.&nbsp; Racism is = racism,</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>regardless of who holds it.&nbsp; Hate is hate, and that is anti-God, period.&nbsp; = God</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>is love.</font></font> <p><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>I may not like what you = do, but as a Christian I am supposed to love you.</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>Love does not mean = accepting behavior or attitudes, just accepting the</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font = size=3D-1>person.</font></font></blockquote> Bishop Spong: "I have never known a recipient of this kind of 'love' who didn't feel demeaned and degraded." I agree. <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>My = conservative views make me no less loving than another person's views.</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>And my sin is still = sin!!</font></font> <p><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>A few months ago, some, = in this list, were more concerned about organ pipes</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>being wielded against a terrorist in a German church than we were about those</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>poor parishioners that = had to endure that attack!!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pipes can be = replaced,</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>people = cannot.</font></font> <p><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>I think the teenagers = have it right.&nbsp; We need more WWJD in every aspect of</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>our lives, mine = included.</font></font></blockquote> Our Lord has already told us what He would do in the case of gay people: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Search the Gospels. If He had thought it merited all the attention the Religious "Right" is giving it, surely He would have SAID something about it. He didn't. <p>For the rest, read the original Hebrew and/or Greek. The purported = anti-gay passages are mistranslations at best. Every modern Biblical translator has the agenda of the group funding his work looking over his shoulder. For instance, the "translators" of the New King James Version had to sign a document pledging that they WOULDN'T find any "new" interpretations or translations while doing their work, WHETHER THEY IN FACT DID OR DIDN'T. <p>A seminary professor: "there are three hundred and something references to heterosexuality in the Bible; there are seven (purported) references to homosexuality; it's not that God loves heterosexuals LESS; He just felt they needed more SUPERVISION." (chuckle) <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>I'm = done, and ducking.</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>Neil = Brown</font></font></blockquote> I'm glad this topic is airing on PipeChat ... it's high time the = organists' community took their heads out of the sand and realized that the = activities of the Right AFFECT us and OUR jobs. <p>Cheers, <p>Bud Clark <br>&nbsp; <br>&nbsp;</html>   --------------FBC3D1607E450910F4474591--    
(back) Subject: tractors, hand pumps, windmills, and tilting at same (grin) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:54:30 -0800   Y'all are so SILLY (grin)!   On a more serious note, once again I plead for this discussion to proceed FROM THE LITERATURE OF THE INSTRUMENT ITSELF.   I don't think many people consider the baroque keyboard literature for the harpsichord/clavichord automatically interchangeable with the piano these days, since fine harpsichords and clavichords are being built again.   ALL organ literature prior to about 1900 was written for the tracker organ (yes, I know, tubular pneumatic action was in use in England, and electric action was starting to be used in the U.S., but 1900 is a good cut-off date, and those innovations hadn't affected the WRITING at that point).   We can debate what Bach would have done with a high-pressure Tuba, or a Wurlitzer trap set, or MIDI until the cows come home; what WON'T change is the fact that Bach DIDN'T have a high-pressure Tuba, or a Wurlitzer trap set, or MIDI. Therefore, he didn't have the SOUND of a Tuba, or traps, or MIDI in his HEAD when he wrote his music.   OK, Bach DID write some "absolute" music, principally the Art of Fugue; but MOST of what he wrote was practical, everyday (what an understatement!) music for immediate consumption, either in church or in some minor German noble's court. So the vast MAJORITY of his output WAS written for the forces he had at hand -- vocal, instrumental, AND organ.   We can also debate whether he prefered Schnitger or Silbermann's organs from now till Judgment Day, but the fact remains that he was familiar with BOTH; BOTH serve equally well as a vehicle for Bach ... Schnitger perhaps better for the Preludes and Fugues; Silbermann perhaps better for the Chorale Preludes, but that's more a matter of the listener's TASTE ... BOTH are equally POSSIBLE on BOTH kinds of instruments.   There is a MODEST body of literature for the electric-action organ, principally Sowerby and the American School of the earlier part of the 20th century; there's probably MORE music written (or improvised) specifically for the HAMMOND organ, which has become a virtually indispensable part of gospel, rock and jazz music. And on THAT front, synthesizers and digitally-sampled ersatz Hammonds have NOT been able to displace the B-3 as the instrument of choice.   See my point?   Cheers,   Bud        
(back) Subject: God Hates Nobody From: "DanielW Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:08:00 -0400   God does not hate anybody Please read John 3:16 that says it all I dont see hate in that verse   If God hated people ,why did he send Jesus Again read John 3:16 The term World in that verse ,didnt mean the globe, It meant the people well I hope my view makes sence my 2 cents worth I guess   sincerely Danielwh '2000' E. Power Biggs Fellow    
(back) Subject: Re: hand pumping From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:10:09 -0800   At 11:14 AM 3/8/2001 -0800, you wrote: >I flunked physics (grin), but it has been explained to me that it has to=20 >do with the higher static pressure produced by an electric blower.<snip>   I got straight As in physics all though school, so allow me to explain.   >"Flexible" wind does NOT mean "unsteady" wind, as some of the respondents= =20 >on this list would have us believe. As long as the reservoir is raised,=20 >whether by hand or by blower, the wind is THERE. The difference is that=20 >the organ tends to "breathe" with hand-pumping, as it takes slightly=20 >longer to completely refill the reservoir after a big chord (for=20 >instance).<snip>   "Flexible" wind is a term bandied about by the unscientific to explain a=20 number of phenomena. It can describe and organ whose builder "cheated" on= =20 windlines (M=F6ller in the '60s and '70s was notorious for this), and thus= =20 there's a noticeable pressure drop on heavy demand, or it can describe the= =20 effect that comes from a chest fed by a large regulator that has, at least= =20 partially, inert mass controlling the kinetic energy of the wind it=20 contains. As I've already described, gravity acting upon the interia of=20 regulator "weights" will lag the need for the regulator top to descend and= =20 thus provide exacting pressure regulation. Following this further, once=20 desired pressure is attain, "weights" will "overreact" by continuing to=20 compress the enclosed gas further (a "spring effect", if you will), and a=20 period of hysteresis will occur, with the kinetic energy of the enclosed=20 gas thus acting to then raise the "weights", which will again "overreact"=20 by raising too high. In an organ being played, the weighted reservoir will= =20 never achieve perfectly regulated wind, because of the lagging of interial= =20 forces of the weights as they're attracted by gravity.   This is obviously not a tough problem to figure out, and Hope-Jones finally= =20 did it by countering the kinetic force of enclosed gas with the stored=20 kinetic force of a simple spring. Huge improvements in regulation were=20 then made, and sprung regulators became the norm, advanced strongly by=20 Ernest M. Skinner. This isn't to say that addition of a certain amount of= =20 dead weight isn't beneficial. An interesting pressure rise phenomena can=20 occur under heavy demand, such as large, heavily registered chords, which=20 can heighten musical effect if done properly. However, I'd opine that the= =20 overdone "wheezebag" wing heard on many of these "retro-fad" organs is=20 hardly musical, but rather, an annoyance to be avoided. Sure, there's a=20 difference between organs with blowers and those with "feeders"...the ones= =20 with blowers are more often on pitch! As far as "retro-fad" organs with=20 both, they're usually improperly regulated to start with, which will make=20 the more copious wind supplied by an electric blower sound bad due to the=20 phenomena already mentioned.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: tractors, hand pumps, windmills, and tilting at same (grin) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:42:08 -0800   At 12:54 PM 3/8/2001 -0800, BuuD-by-the-Beach wrote: >There is a MODEST body of literature for the electric-action organ, >principally Sowerby and the American School of the earlier part of the >20th century<snip>   This is Fesperman's theory on why we should be be saddled with trackers and= =20 be held captive by the "orgelbunghole". It's strictly a reactionary stance= =20 used to advance a preference. Due to the development of the modern=20 orchestra and other musical forms since Bach, of course there's a dearth of= =20 "modern" organ literature: the instrument simply does NOT hold sway like it= =20 did back during the Baroque...there's simply TOO much competition! But I=20 hardly think that returning to these outsized accordions with fireplace=20 bellows stuck on them is wise. It would stifle modern composition even=20 further for the organ, and I'm quite sure would bury the organ for all time= =20 as a performance medium.   >there's probably MORE music written (or improvised) >specifically for the HAMMOND organ, which has become a virtually >indispensable part of gospel, rock and jazz music. And on THAT front, >synthesizers and digitally-sampled ersatz Hammonds have NOT been able to >displace the B-3 as the instrument of choice.<snip>   Wrong. The new "clones", such as the Korg CX-3 and even Hammond's new=20 XB-3M have narrowed the gap so much that even the experts have a tough time= =20 telling one from the other. Of course, amongst Hammond enthusiasts,=20 there's a cadr=E9 of hard core believers that will accept NOTHING other than= =20 tonewheels, while many others are finally realizing there's no wisdom to=20 having all the old wood and steel to haul around with them to=20 "gigs". Issues of "Ham-burger" temperament, "keyclick", crosstalk and all= =20 the other ingredients to the "Hammond sound" are being increasingly=20 replicated digitally, just like "flexible wind" can be replicated=20 digitally. Proof of this is that black churches, in increasing numbers,=20 are tossing their old, worn-out Hammonds (yes, black churches TRASH=20 Hammonds...abuse that would kill ANY pipe organ in short order!) with new=20 "clones", including the XB-3A and 3M. Of course, BuuD's "Le Grande=20 Hammond" 825 doesn't replicate much of anything, so isn't fodder for cannon= =20 in this discussion!   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Picketing of Felix Hell, and the conservatives From: <Mozart609@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:52:20 EST     --part1_ac.11a55996.27d95914_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi ALL!   As I sit and have read the e-mails about this creep called Phelps. I think =   that every body has hit this issue on the head. We should ignore this = piece of White Trailor-park trash. It is very clear to me that this scalawag has =   nothing better to do than to pick on someone or in this case something = that he has not a clue about.   I think that a law should be past that states: Groups such as the "Phelps" =   crowd can have their opinions BUT cannot not use word like "fag ." I'm not =   just saying this only about the homosexual community but also other groups =   such as African-Americian, Mexican and so on and so on. People have come = up with some nasty names for people in the history of mankind. Frankly it = should stop. I took notice of the fact that on just about every church that was = to be picketed, the name of the church had "FAG" in it. I find that TOTALLY unacceptable and quite offensive.   I am a professional church musician and have been doing this for about 20 years and it just makes me sick to me stomach to hear this kind of crap.   I think that if this man and his "disciples" keep this term "FAG" = up...they should be fined or go to Jail. Freedom of speech is one thing but when it = is abused to the point where it hurts someone.....then that is when the LAW needs to step in.   I know that I am not a great writer and sometimes cannot get my points = always across clearly but I think you will get my point on this.   Enough said on my part!   Mitch Weisiger Lawrenceville, NJ   --part1_ac.11a55996.27d95914_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><B>Hi ALL! <BR> <BR>As I sit and have read the e-mails about this creep called Phelps. I = think <BR>that every body has hit this issue on the head. We should ignore this = piece <BR>of White Trailor-park trash. It is very clear to me that this scalawag = has <BR>nothing better to do than to pick on someone or in this case something = that <BR>he has not a clue about. <BR> <BR>I think that a law should be past that states: Groups such as the = "Phelps" <BR>crowd can have their opinions BUT cannot not use word like "fag ." I'm = not <BR>just saying this only about the homosexual community but also other = groups <BR>such as African-Americian, Mexican and so on and so on. People have = come up <BR>with some nasty names for people in the history of mankind. Frankly it = should <BR>stop. I took notice of the fact that on just about every church that = was to <BR>be picketed, the name of the church had "FAG" in it. I find that = TOTALLY <BR>unacceptable and quite offensive. <BR> <BR>I am a professional church musician and have been doing this for about = 20 <BR>years and it just makes me sick to me stomach to hear this kind of = crap. <BR> <BR>I think that if this man and his "disciples" keep this term "FAG" = up...they <BR>should be fined or go to Jail. Freedom of speech is one thing but when = it is <BR>abused to the point where it hurts someone.....then that is when the = LAW <BR>needs to step in. <BR> <BR>I know that I am not a great writer and sometimes cannot get my points = always <BR>across clearly but I think you will get my point on this. <BR> <BR>Enough said on my part! <BR> <BR>Mitch Weisiger <BR>Lawrenceville, NJ</B></FONT></HTML>   --part1_ac.11a55996.27d95914_boundary--