PipeChat Digest #1884 - Tuesday, March 13, 2001
 
Re: mixtures
  by "Mark Hummel" <mhummel@pcug.org.au>
Re: mixtures
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: mixtures
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
RE: new web page
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Times review
  by <ALamirande@aol.com>
Re: mixtures
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: mixtures
  by "Randy Terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: mixtures
  by "Randy Terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: mixtures
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: mixtures From: "Mark Hummel" <mhummel@pcug.org.au> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:19:07 +1100 (EST)       On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Randy Terry wrote:   > > I am NOT sure what the stoplist will be, now?!!! I had originally = planned on > having actual stops do what sub/super couplers normally do. I still want = unison > couplers only, but I had the Gemshorn at 16' in the Swell (using the 16' > Quintadena pipes for the bass as they are useless for anything and we = really > don't have room to rescale them. The soft 16' pedal flute is a problem, = but > the builder will simply add an octave of small scale wood pipes if = needed - or, > I understand if you go for an electronic 32' Bdn, you can easily have a = soft > lieblich 16'.   Sorry to branch out here, but how do the electronic stops work?   My impression (or my guess, I think I may have read how it works somewhere) is that pipes are somehow artificially combined...   How does the sound of a real 32' pipe compare to an electronic one?   Thanks,   Mark.   P.S Good luck with the new organ!    
(back) Subject: Re: mixtures From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:39:29 +0800   Yes I know which note it sounds, but in all cases I have seen, it was called a Tierce (third) - it is two octaves plus one third. You might be quite right but I can't see it at present. The 12th and 15th are fifth sounding notes one octave and a fifth and two octaves and a fifth respectively. Bob E.   Bob Scarborough wrote: > > At 07:47 AM 3/13/2001 +0800, you wrote: > >Since when was a 17th a fifth?<snip> > > It's the fifth harmonic of the unison. It sounds (approximately) two > octaves and a third above the fundamental. > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE: http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: mixtures From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:07:14 +0800   Sorry I meant the 19th not the 15th B.E.   Bob Elms wrote: > > Yes I know which note it sounds, but in all cases I have seen, it was > called a Tierce (third) - it is two octaves plus one third. You might be > quite right but I can't see it at present. The 12th and 15th are fifth > sounding notes one octave and a fifth and two octaves and a fifth > respectively. > Bob E. > > Bob Scarborough wrote: > > > > At 07:47 AM 3/13/2001 +0800, you wrote: > > >Since when was a 17th a fifth?<snip> > > > > It's the fifth harmonic of the unison. It sounds (approximately) two > > octaves and a third above the fundamental. > > > > DeserTBoB > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE: http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE: http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: RE: new web page From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:16:46 -0600   Randy:   Looks good. Problems: In the Easter children's choir section, the year given for the service is 2000 instead of 2001; your sexton's name is = spelled Wiess under his photo but Weiss in your message to the list; and Mr. Stanley's name is spelled Standley in one senetence of the organ description.   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: Randy Terry [mailto:randyterryus@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 1:15 AM To: PipeChat Subject: new web page     For those of you interested in the life of The Episcopal Church of St. Peter, Redwood City, CA, we finally have our new web page up and going. There = are still kinks to be worked out, but it is getting there.   For those of you who don't know me, click the "people" button. There are pictures of the staff. The photo on the home page was taken by our Sexton = & Verger - Mark Weiss, who has a successful photography business.   Information about the music program is here and there, but the most = complete is the music section in the "Faith" section - Click "Faith, " then "Music Program."   I saw in the webpage somewhere about the blessing of same-gender committed relationships. I feel really lucky to be at this parish!!!   http://www.stpetersrwc.org/   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Randy Terry Minister of Music, Organist & Choirmaster The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California www.stpetersrwc.org   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Times review From: <ALamirande@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:46:53 EST     --part1_c0.111355bd.27dfb70d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear Pat: I was unable to access the Times review using the URL you supplied. So finally, I just went to the main page of the Times = (http://www.nytimes.com/), clicked there on Arts, scrolled down, and found the review.   Mr. Holland attended Saturday's performance. In my opinion, the review in =   the Cleveland Plain Dealer by Donald Rosenberg (of last Thursday's performance) was a far better and more objective review. Mr. Holland = should stop carping about the Nazis and how they reacted 60 years ago, and judge = the music on its own intrinsic merits, divorced from politics and European history.   And even when he tries to do that, he fails. He compares Schmidt's = oratorio to Elgar's Dream of Gerontius, and finds the latter to be "more modern". Poppycock. I haven't listened to Elgar's oratorio in years, but I remember that I = found it quite boring. (I still have the old LP recording.) Delius was of the same opinion. The Schmidt, on the other hand, is overwhelming in its excitement. Alas, he commited --- in Mr. Holland's view --- the sin of composing in a harmonically conservative style. Heresy, presumably, for = the 1930s! (Actually, some of the harmonic writing is quite daring, as = program annotator Peter Lakki pointed out in his pre-concert lecture --- which, presumably, Holland did not attend.)   He calls Schmidt a "placid reactionary". Believe me: there is nothing = placid about "Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln", and there was nothing placid about = the performance.   Finally, after paragraph after paragraph of put-downs, Holland finally = gets around to saying: "Some of Schmidt's writing is quite beautiful. The Prologue's solo quartet is tender sentiment enriched by remarkable contrapuntal skills. Pictorial effects in the instrumental writing are equally striking."   But then: he just cannot refrain from adding: "On the other hand, there = are unfortunate descents into late Romantic gluttony."   At the end, though, he does feel compelled to note: "The audience at Severance Hall responded with exceptional enthusiasm."   I'll take the public reaction over Mr. Holland's critical sophistication = any day!   Incidentally, in commenting on the enormous forces needed to perform this work, he refers to "an organ console on which Friedmann Winklhofer played Schmidt's elaborate connective passages." It's amusing that, with respect = to the Severance Hall organ, he noticed only the console! Apparently, he = didn't even see the pipes so prominently on display at the back of the stage!   Best regards,   Arthur LaMirande   --part1_c0.111355bd.27dfb70d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dear Pat: <BR>I was unable to access the Times review using the URL you supplied. = &nbsp;So <BR>finally, I just went to the main page of the Times = (http://www.nytimes.com/), <BR>clicked there on Arts, scrolled down, and found the review. <BR> <BR>Mr. Holland attended Saturday's performance. &nbsp;In my opinion, the = review in <BR>the Cleveland Plain Dealer by Donald Rosenberg (of last Thursday's <BR>performance) was a far better and more objective review. &nbsp;Mr. = Holland should <BR>stop carping about the Nazis and how they reacted 60 years ago, and = judge the <BR>music on its own intrinsic merits, divorced from politics and European =   <BR>history. <BR> <BR>And even when he tries to do that, he fails. &nbsp;He compares = Schmidt's oratorio <BR>to Elgar's Dream of Gerontius, and finds the latter to be "more = modern". &nbsp; <BR>Poppycock. <BR>I haven't listened to Elgar's oratorio in years, but I remember that I = found <BR>it quite boring. &nbsp;(I still have the old LP recording.) = &nbsp;Delius was of the <BR>same opinion. &nbsp;The Schmidt, on the other hand, is overwhelming in = its <BR>excitement. &nbsp;Alas, he commited --- in Mr. Holland's view --- the sin of <BR>composing in a harmonically conservative style. &nbsp;Heresy, = presumably, for the <BR>1930s! &nbsp;(Actually, some of the harmonic writing is quite daring, = as program <BR>annotator Peter Lakki pointed out in his pre-concert lecture --- = which, <BR>presumably, Holland did not attend.) <BR> <BR>He calls Schmidt a "placid reactionary". &nbsp;Believe me: there is = nothing placid <BR>about "Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln", and there was nothing placid = about the <BR>performance. <BR> <BR>Finally, after paragraph after paragraph of put-downs, Holland finally = gets <BR>around to saying: &nbsp;"Some of Schmidt's writing is quite beautiful. = &nbsp;The <BR>Prologue's solo quartet is tender sentiment enriched by remarkable <BR>contrapuntal skills. &nbsp;Pictorial effects in the instrumental = writing are <BR>equally striking." <BR> <BR>But then: he just cannot refrain from adding: &nbsp;"On the other = hand, there are <BR>unfortunate descents into late Romantic gluttony." <BR> <BR>At the end, though, he does feel compelled to note: "The audience at <BR>Severance Hall responded with exceptional enthusiasm." <BR> <BR>I'll take the public reaction over Mr. Holland's critical = sophistication any <BR>day! <BR> <BR>Incidentally, in commenting on the enormous forces needed to perform = this <BR>work, he refers to "an organ console on which Friedmann Winklhofer = played <BR>Schmidt's elaborate connective passages." &nbsp;It's amusing that, = with respect to <BR>the Severance Hall organ, he noticed only the console! = &nbsp;Apparently, he didn't <BR>even see the pipes so prominently on display at the back of the stage! <BR> <BR>Best regards, <BR> <BR>Arthur LaMirande</FONT></HTML>   --part1_c0.111355bd.27dfb70d_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: mixtures From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:03:58 EST     --part1_bc.1195ceb3.27dfbb0e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I agree with you about the duplexing, but even more important is the unification. You mentioned wanting real strings. Luckily, they are very cheap these days. My thought would be to take the Gemshorn Celeste and = use it for a 2' stop, possibly rescaling to get a broader sound. Then use = the Gemshorn 8 for a unison stop on the Great only. I would remove the 2' extension of the 8 Principal. Then you could have = the 8 Principal properly voiced with ascending trebles. This would really = help in hymn playing clarity. I would eliminate the Sharp IV extension. This would allow the Mixture IV = to be properly voiced in the treble. I would replace the Gemshorn in the Swell with recycled strings. If = chest space is a problem, the Gemshorn 8 and 2 could be placed on an unenclosed chest with the great principal and octave. Actually, I would also = include the Koppelflute 4 as well. However, preferably would be to place all of the great on new chests = outside of the swell box, except for the reeds. Just "because", I would rename the 8' flute! I would omit the 2' extension of the swell principal and have it voiced = with ascending trebles. I would omit the Oboe 4. I've never seen one that worked. You might = make preparations for adding a 4' Holzregal for your baroque indulgences. = They're really cute, although I'd rather have an 8'. In the Pedal I would use the 8 Octave as the top of the Subbass, and the Gedeckt as the top of the 16 Bourdon, using the low 12 as common. I would =   also add a 5-1/3 Quinte taken from the 8' Octave. This gives incredible strength when you lack a true 16 Principal. I'd also omit the 2' Octave, there's really no need and it needlessly compromises the 4'. I would use the Quintadena at 8'. They are really fun, weird as they = are!! Good luck with your project! I'm anxious to hear how it comes out.     Great: (exposed)   16' Gemshorn (Quintadena bass) 8' Diapason 8' Hohlflute (1915 Austin, restored and revoiced, flt/princ. hybrid) 8' Gemshorn 4' Octave 4' Koppelflote (bottom 10 caps) 2-2/3' Nasard 2' Waldflote (old Gemshorn Celeste) 1-1/3' Larigot (ext. Nasard) IV Mixture (1-1/3' regulated) (enclosed) 16' Double Trumpet (smooth English reed, medium scale) 8' Trumpet (ext) 8' Oboe 4' Clarion (ext) Chimes Cymbelstern Swell to Great 16 8 4   SWELL:   8' Principal (bass from pedal Bdn) 8' Gedeckt (1928 Aeolian, nicks filled with wax, no other changes) 8' Salicional (recycled) 8' Voix Celeste (TC) (recycled) 8' Quintadena (old) 4' Principal (new) 4' Rohrflote (former 2-2/3, bottom 7 pipes wood chimney flts.) 4' Voix Celeste II (ext) 2-2/3' Nasard (recent German pipes 2' - Tom Anderson made bass) 2' Blockflote (ext. Koppelflote or 8' Gedeckt) 1-3/5' Tierce (existing rescaled) 1' Sifflote (ext. Koppelflote or 8 Gedeckt, top 8ve repeats) IV Mixture 1-1/3' 16' Contra Oboe (tc) 8' Trumpet 8' Oboe 4' Clarion General Tremolo   PEDAL:   32' Resultant 16' Subbass (24 pipes, uppers from 8 Octave) 16' Bourdon (24 pipes, Aeolian Ged.) 8' Octave 8' Gedeckt (sw) 8' Gemshorn 5-1/3 Quinte (from 8' Octave 4' Super Octave (gt 8') 4' Flute (32 pipes, 1913 Murray Harris) IV Mixture 1-1/3' 16' Double Trumpet 8' Trumpet 4' Clarion 4' Oboe Great to Pedal Swell to Pedal     Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_bc.1195ceb3.27dfbb0e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>I agree with you about = the duplexing, but even more important is the <BR>unification. &nbsp;You mentioned wanting real strings. &nbsp;Luckily, = they are very <BR>cheap these days. &nbsp;My thought would be to take the Gemshorn Celeste and use <BR>it for a 2' stop, possibly rescaling to get a broader sound. = &nbsp;&nbsp;Then use the <BR>Gemshorn 8 for a unison stop on the Great only. <BR>I would remove the 2' extension of the 8 Principal. &nbsp;&nbsp;Then = you could have the <BR>8 Principal properly voiced with ascending trebles. &nbsp;This would = really help <BR>in hymn playing clarity. <BR>I would eliminate the Sharp IV extension. &nbsp;This would allow the = Mixture IV to <BR>be properly voiced in the treble. <BR>I would replace the Gemshorn in the Swell with recycled strings. = &nbsp;&nbsp;If chest <BR>space is a problem, the Gemshorn 8 and 2 could be placed on an = unenclosed <BR>chest with the great principal and octave. &nbsp;&nbsp;Actually, I = would also include <BR>the Koppelflute 4 as well. <BR>However, preferably would be to place all of the great on new chests = outside <BR>of the swell box, except for the reeds. <BR>Just "because", I would rename the 8' flute! <BR>I would omit the 2' extension of the swell principal and have it = voiced with <BR>ascending trebles. <BR>I would omit the Oboe 4. &nbsp;I've never seen one that worked. = &nbsp;&nbsp;You might make <BR>preparations for adding a 4' Holzregal for your baroque indulgences. = &nbsp;They're <BR>really cute, although I'd rather have an 8'. <BR>In the Pedal I would use the 8 Octave as the top of the Subbass, and = the <BR>Gedeckt as the top of the 16 Bourdon, using the low 12 as common. = &nbsp;I would <BR>also add a 5-1/3 Quinte taken from the 8' Octave. &nbsp;This gives = incredible <BR>strength when you lack a true 16 Principal. &nbsp;I'd also omit the 2' = Octave, <BR>there's really no need and it needlessly compromises the 4'. <BR>I would use the Quintadena at 8'. &nbsp;&nbsp;They are really fun, = weird as they are!! <BR>Good luck with your project! &nbsp;&nbsp;I'm anxious to hear how it = comes out. <BR> <BR> <BR>Great: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(exposed) <BR> <BR>16' &nbsp;Gemshorn (Quintadena bass) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Diapason &nbsp; <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Hohlflute &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(1915 Austin, = restored and revoiced, flt/princ. hybrid) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Gemshorn &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Octave &nbsp; <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Koppelflote (bottom 10 caps) &nbsp; <BR>2-2/3' Nasard <BR>2' &nbsp;&nbsp;Waldflote (old Gemshorn Celeste) &nbsp; <BR>1-1/3' Larigot (ext. Nasard) <BR>IV &nbsp;&nbsp;Mixture (1-1/3' regulated) <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(enclosed) <BR>16' &nbsp;Double Trumpet (smooth English reed, medium scale) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Trumpet (ext) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Oboe <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Clarion (ext) <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Chimes <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Cymbelstern <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Swell to Great &nbsp;16 8 4 <BR> <BR>SWELL: <BR> <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Principal (bass from pedal Bdn) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Gedeckt (1928 Aeolian, nicks filled with wax, no other = changes) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Salicional &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(recycled) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Voix Celeste (TC) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(recycled) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Quintadena &nbsp;(old) <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Principal (new) <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Rohrflote (former 2-2/3, bottom 7 pipes wood chimney = flts.) <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Voix Celeste II (ext) <BR>2-2/3' Nasard (recent German pipes 2' - Tom Anderson made bass) <BR>2' &nbsp;&nbsp;Blockflote (ext. Koppelflote or 8' Gedeckt) <BR>1-3/5' Tierce (existing rescaled) <BR>1' &nbsp;&nbsp;Sifflote (ext. Koppelflote or 8 Gedeckt, top 8ve = repeats) <BR>IV &nbsp;&nbsp;Mixture 1-1/3' <BR>16' &nbsp;Contra Oboe (tc) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Trumpet <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Oboe <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Clarion <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;General Tremolo <BR> <BR>PEDAL: <BR> <BR>32' &nbsp;Resultant <BR>16' &nbsp;Subbass (24 pipes, uppers from 8 Octave) <BR>16' &nbsp;Bourdon (24 pipes, Aeolian Ged.) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Octave <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Gedeckt (sw) <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Gemshorn <BR>5-1/3 Quinte &nbsp;(from 8' Octave <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Super Octave (gt 8') <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Flute (32 pipes, 1913 Murray Harris) <BR>IV &nbsp;&nbsp;Mixture 1-1/3' <BR>16' &nbsp;Double Trumpet <BR>8' &nbsp;&nbsp;Trumpet <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Clarion <BR>4' &nbsp;&nbsp;Oboe <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Great to Pedal <BR> &nbsp;Swell to Pedal <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_bc.1195ceb3.27dfbb0e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: mixtures From: "Randy Terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:25:07 -0800 (PST)     --- Cremona502@cs.com wrote: > I agree with you about the duplexing, but even more important is the > unification. You mentioned wanting real strings. Luckily, they are = very > cheap these days. My thought would be to take the Gemshorn Celeste and = use > it for a 2' stop, possibly rescaling to get a broader sound. Then use = the > Gemshorn 8 for a unison stop on the Great only. > I would remove the 2' extension of the 8 Principal. Then you could = have the     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Randy Terry Minister of Music, Organist & Choirmaster The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California www.stpetersrwc.org   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: mixtures From: "Randy Terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:29:51 -0800 (PST)   Good comments, Bruce. However, if I got Strings they would have to be = brand new special order Tom Anderson and voiced by John Hendriksen if he is still working! AND I LOVE my Gemshorns, so no strings!! But some of your other ideas are more where my thinking is going......Nothing will happen till we = can prder the Peterson anyway....   --- Cremona502@cs.com wrote: > I agree with you about the duplexing, but even more important is the > unification. You mentioned wanting real strings. Luckily, they are = very > cheap these days. My thought would be to take the Gemshorn Celeste and = use > it for a 2' stop, possibly rescaling to get a broader sound. Then use = the > Gemshorn 8 for a unison stop on the Great only. > I would remove the 2' extension of the 8 Principal. Then you could = have the     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Randy Terry Minister of Music, Organist & Choirmaster The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California www.stpetersrwc.org   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: mixtures From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:26:24 -0800   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_3103209= =3D=3D_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"; format=3Dflowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   At 08:39 PM 3/13/2001 +0800, t'other BawB wrote: >Yes I know which note it sounds, but in all cases I have seen, it was >called a Tierce (third) - it is two octaves plus one third. You might be >quite right but I can't see it at present. <snip>   You're confusing numeration of harmonics with intervals. The = Seventeenth=3D20 sounds, as its fundamental, the fifth harmonic of the unison series. = It=3D20 speaks as a third-sounding stop and is usually called the=3D20 "tierce". However, when equating mutations to their corresponding place = in=3D =3D20 the unison harmonic train, one usually would note that the = seventeenth=3D20 indeed sounds the fifth harmonic of the unison. To wit:   At unison pitch:   8' =3D3D fundamental =3D3D unison 4' =3D3D 2nd harmonic =3D3D octave 2 2/3' 3rd harmonic =3D3D nazard 2' =3D3D 4th harmonic =3D3D superoctave 1 3/5' 5th harmonic =3D3D tierce 1 1/3' 6th harmonic =3D3D larigot 1 1/7' 7th harmonic =3D3D septi=3DE8me (apx flatted 21st) 1' =3D3D 8th harmonic =3D3D siffl=3DF6te 7/8' =3D3D 9th harmonic =3D3D (approx D) 3/4' =3D3D 10th harmonic =3D3D (approx E) 5/8' =3D3D 11th harmonic =3D3D (VERY approx F) 1/2' =3D3D 12th harmonic =3D3D (approx G)   ....and so on into inaudibility.   Mutations were devised to coincide with the natural harmonics of the = unison=3D =3D20 (or, most oft in the pedal, subunsion) pitch. They are harmonic=3D20 corroborating stops, originally designed to reinforce = naturally-occurring=3D20 harmonics of the unison with their own fundamentals. In the chart, = the=3D20 modern numerical name of each harmonic is given as is its approximate=3D20 speaking length, along with its "ancient" name.   DeserTBoB --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_3103209= =3D=3D_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <html> At 08:39 PM 3/13/2001 +0800, t'other BawB wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3D3Dcite class=3D3Dcite cite>Yes I know which note it = sounds, but in all cases I have seen,&nbsp; it was<br> called a Tierce (third) - it is two octaves plus one third. You might be<br> quite right but I can't see it at present.=3D20 &lt;snip&gt;</blockquote><br> You're confusing numeration of harmonics with intervals.&nbsp; The Seventeenth sounds, as its fundamental, the fifth harmonic of the unison series.&nbsp; It speaks as a third-sounding stop and is usually called the &quot;tierce&quot;.&nbsp; However, when equating mutations to their corresponding place in the unison harmonic train, one usually would note that the seventeenth indeed sounds the fifth harmonic of the unison.&nbsp; To wit:<br> <br> At unison pitch:<br> <br> <tt>8'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;= &nb=3D sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>fundamental<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p=3D ;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= ;=3D </x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>uniso= n<b=3D r> 4'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>2nd harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>octave<br> 2 2/3'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>3rd harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>nazard<br> 2'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>4th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>superoctave<br> 1 3/5'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>5th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>tierce<br> 1 1/3'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>6th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>larigot<br> 1 1/7'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>7th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>septi=3DE8me (apx flatted 21st)<br> 1'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>8th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>siffl=3DF6te<br> 7/8'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp=3D ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>9th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>(approx D)<br> 3/4'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp=3D ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>10th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>(approx E)<br> 5/8'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp=3D ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>11th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>(VERY approx F)<br> 1/2'<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp=3D ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>12th harmonic<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=3D3D<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&=3D nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>(approx G)<br> <br> ....and so on into inaudibility.<br> <br> Mutations were devised to coincide with the natural harmonics of the unison (or, most oft in the pedal, subunsion) pitch.&nbsp; They are harmonic corroborating stops, originally designed to reinforce naturally-occurring harmonics of the unison with their own fundamentals.&nbsp; In the chart, the modern numerical name of each harmonic is given as is its approximate speaking length, along with its &quot;ancient&quot; name.<br> <br> DeserTBoB</html>   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_3103209= =3D=3D_.ALT--