PipeChat Digest #1905 - Friday, March 16, 2001
 
Re: Improvisation vs. playing "by ear"
  by "Cindy Adams" <clavinova98@yahoo.com>
Re: Church Job (was Practice Organ)
  by <AMADPoet@aol.com>
Re: Improvisation vs. playing "by ear"
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: sight reading
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: Setting Goals-Toccata and Fugue
  by "Louis Katz" <Louis.Katz@iris.tamucc.edu>
Re: Organ Voicing
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Re: Philip Moore Workshops & Evensong
  by <AMADPoet@aol.com>
hilariter non licit in tempore Quadrigesimae
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Practice Organ Options
  by "Patricia A. Blissenbach" <pab@inreach.com>
Re: Organ Voicing
  by "mike" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Improvisation vs. playing "by ear" From: "Cindy Adams" <clavinova98@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:23:25 -0800 (PST)   But can't you learn to play by ear? You can't learn to have perfect pitch...   --- mike <mike3247@earthlink.net> wrote: > Mike Gettelman butts in: > > I think there is enough evidence from this > discussion to say that playing > by ear is a natural ability that is similar to the > phenomenon of perfect > pitch, in individuals who possess it. > > Bob Scarborough wrote: > > > At 09:54 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > >Playing by ear is sitting down cold to an > instrument and doing a recital > > >from the top of ones' head -sans sheet > music.<snip> > > > > Wrong. That's playing from memory. "Playing by > ear" has to do with tonal > > memory capability, and being able to translate > such memory into actions to > > play an instrument. Typical example: Pianist > hears a tune on the radio, > > sits down to piano and plays a good-enough > arrangement of it from memory. > > > > DeserTBoB > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Cindy   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Church Job (was Practice Organ) From: <AMADPoet@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:37:58 EST   In a message dated 3/16/01 9:38:31 AM Central Standard Time, Cremona502@cs.com writes:   << Remember, Mandy. Ugly money spends just as easily as handsome money! Besides, if your = richs there's always a pool boy around!! ;-) >>   True true...Bud, if you have any rich relatives, let me know- I can't = swim. hehe   Mandy  
(back) Subject: Re: Improvisation vs. playing "by ear" From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:41:44 -0500   I think we all started off playing by ear when we were kids....sitting at = a piano or organ and picking out melodies.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: sight reading From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:44:31 -0500   I practice a minimum of 3 hours every day....7 days a week, and sight-reading new music is the most important part of my practicing schedule. By improving my sight-reading abilities, learning new music becomes easier and easier, and also the speed in which it's learned. = Thanks to my practicing, it now takes me at least 1/5 the time to learn a piece, = as it did years ago, and that ratio is diminishing with each passing day.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: Setting Goals-Toccata and Fugue From: "Louis Katz" <Louis.Katz@iris.tamucc.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:46:41 -0800   Hi, I am not an organist, other than I play mine. I started fiddling with this piece as a teen on our pump organ. It was fun because much of it was easy. The mistake I made at the time was not begginning to learn the more difficult passages at the same time. Learn good fingering, and don't skip the hard stuff, plug away at it. If you are motivated by it it is good. Louis   Cindy Adams wrote:   > Hi- > > I like a challenge and my goal is to learn "Toccata > and > Fugue in D Minor. i have had one lesson! Am I crazy or > what? > > Is it as difficult as it sounds? > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Cindy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Voicing From: <ManderUSA@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:46:15 EST     --part1_77.119dedd5.27e3ab67_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/16/2001 11:18:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Cremona502@cs.com writes:     > . And if the mechanical people don't do > their work properly, the voicer and finisher can't do their work. > >   And then there is the little matter of scaling, decisions about windpressures, and even something as basic as deciding on a stoplist. = These things generally are done by the person whose name appears on the = instrument - call him the producer. Perhaps the voicer (sometimes also done by the "producer") and the finisher more as directors.   Pretty bad.   Cheers anyway,   Malcolm   --part1_77.119dedd5.27e3ab67_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2>In a message dated 3/16/2001 11:18:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>Cremona502@cs.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. &nbsp;&nbsp;And = if the mechanical people don't do <BR>their work properly, the voicer and finisher can't do their work. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>And then there is the little matter of scaling, decisions about <BR>windpressures, and even something as basic as deciding on a stoplist. = These <BR>things generally are done by the person whose name appears on the = instrument <BR>- call him the producer. Perhaps the voicer (sometimes also done by = the <BR>"producer") and the finisher more as directors. <BR> <BR>Pretty bad. <BR> <BR>Cheers anyway, <BR> <BR>Malcolm</FONT></HTML>   --part1_77.119dedd5.27e3ab67_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Philip Moore Workshops & Evensong From: <AMADPoet@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:49:44 EST   In a message dated 3/16/01 10:04:18 AM Central Standard Time, Cremona502@cs.com writes:   << The blame lies on women who laid around for centuries doing nothing and not contributing anything = to music and worship. >>   Oh dear, you do know you're going to get in trouble for that one, don't = you?   But not with me...I'm too restrained for that. :::evil grin:::   Still, I feel I need remind all of you fired-up males that this was a = SOPRANO speaking...heehee, they're usually a bit out there, you know. I'm sure if Hank Williams had been classically trained he would have written a song = about the soprano who broke his heart.   Mandy  
(back) Subject: hilariter non licit in tempore Quadrigesimae From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:01:49 -0800     --------------D1E2DA216CC7C73B76746ACE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by = laxmls02.socal.rr.com id f2GHwQn08916       ScottFop@aol.com wrote:   > LITURGICALLY yours <giggle> > > SCOTT F. FOPPIANO, Principal Organist and Director of Music > THE NATIONAL SHRINE OF THE LITTLE FLOWER, Royal Oak, MI > (Geo. Kilgen & Son, Opus 5180, 1933) > =3DE2=3D80=3D9CCantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat dicens, > fiat cor meum immaculatum ut non confundar.=3DE2=3D80=3D9D   Harumph! Speaking of liturgical revisionism, giggling is NOT allowed during Lent at St. Matthew's   A Properly Penitentially Prune-Faced Bud     --------------D1E2DA216CC7C73B76746ACE Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by = laxmls02.socal.rr.com id f2GHwQn08916   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> &nbsp; <p>ScottFop@aol.com wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3D3DCITE><font face=3D3D"Arial"><font = color=3D3D"#000000"><fon=3D t size=3D3D+0>LITURGICALLY yours &lt;giggle></font></font></font> <p><font face=3D3D"Arial"><font color=3D3D"#000000"><font = size=3D3D+0><b>SCOTT =3D F. FOPPIANO</b>, Principal Organist and Director of Music</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D3D"Arial"><font color=3D3D"#000000"><font size=3D3D+0>THE = NATI=3D ONAL SHRINE OF THE LITTLE FLOWER, Royal Oak, MI</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D3D"Arial"><font color=3D3D"#000000"><font = size=3D3D+0>(Geo. Ki=3D lgen &amp; Son, Opus 5180, 1933)</font></font></font> <br><i><font face=3D3D"Arial"><font color=3D3D"#000000"><font = size=3D3D+0>&acir=3D c;&euro;=3D9CCantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat dicens,</font></font></font></i> <br><i><font face=3D3D"Arial"><font color=3D3D"#000000"><font = size=3D3D+0>fiat =3D cor meum immaculatum ut non = confundar.&acirc;&euro;=3D9D</font></font></font></=3D i></blockquote> Harumph! Speaking of liturgical revisionism, giggling is NOT allowed = duri=3D ng Lent at St. Matthew's <p>A Properly Penitentially Prune-Faced Bud <br>&nbsp;</html>   --------------D1E2DA216CC7C73B76746ACE--    
(back) Subject: Re: Practice Organ Options From: "Patricia A. Blissenbach" <pab@inreach.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:57:54 -0800   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C0ADFF.9222E500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I have been watching this thread with keen interest since I was given an = =3D old Hammond to practice on at home. It has no operator's manual and I =3D don't know exactly how to make use of the slide bar settings. I'm =3D tolerating its sound less and less as time goes by. It's nice, as some = =3D here have stated, to be able to work out pedaling at home, but I would = =3D like a more musical sounding instrument.   I am in the market for a small pipe organ, but I don't know how to best = =3D find what I'm looking for. I live in northern California. We have =3D remodeled our living room so it is now 30 by 33' and 15' ceiling. I =3D already have two grand pianos in there and would like to compromise with = =3D an organ that has some pipes and the rest digital; full pedal board, of = =3D course. Some woman prefer diamonds. BR, Patty B-bach ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Cremona502@cs.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Practice Organ Options     In a message dated 3/15/2001 8:16:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,=3D20 TubaMagna@aol.com writes:=3D20       The integrity of a small unit pipe organ for practice is really =3D underrated,=3D20 and people spend way too much money on little three-rank trackers, =3D with=3D20 three sets of gedeckts clicking away for the rest of their lives.=3D20     The sets of gedeckts is a poorly designed practice organ. IMHO, it's = =3D not an=3D20 organ until it has an 8' Principal (at least from tenor g). I would = =3D much=3D20 rather have a Diapason, Flute and String to practice on than the same = =3D three=3D20 ranks unified to 25 stops, thus "necessitating" pistons etc. A =3D three-stop=3D20 practice instrument has no need for a "console", but only keyboard(s), = =3D pedal=3D20 board, and drawknobs extending from the case.=3D20       Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com =3D20 with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, = Bohawow!"=3D20 Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/=3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C0ADFF.9222E500 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I have been watching this thread with = =3D keen interest=3D20 since I was given an old Hammond to practice on at home.&nbsp; It has no = =3D   operator's manual and I don't know exactly how to make use of the slide = =3D bar=3D20 settings.&nbsp; I'm tolerating its sound less and less as time goes =3D by.&nbsp;=3D20 It's nice, as some here have stated, to be able to work out pedaling = at=3D20 home,&nbsp; but I would like a more musical sounding =3D instrument.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I am in the market for a small pipe = =3D organ, but I=3D20 don't know how to best find what I'm looking for.&nbsp; I live in =3D northern=3D20 California.&nbsp; We have remodeled our living room so it is now 30 by =3D 33' and=3D20 15' ceiling.&nbsp; I already have two grand pianos in there and would =3D like to=3D20 compromise with an organ that has some pipes and the rest digital; full = =3D pedal=3D20 board, of course.&nbsp; Some woman prefer diamonds.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>BR,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Patty B-bach</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3DCremona502@cs.com=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Cremona502@cs.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 16, 2001 = =3D 7:36=3D20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Practice Organ =3D Options</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>In a =3D message dated=3D20 3/15/2001 8:16:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:TubaMagna@aol.com">TubaMagna@aol.com</A> writes: =3D <BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=3D20 TYPE=3D3D"CITE">The integrity of a small unit pipe organ for practice is = =3D really=3D20 underrated, <BR>and people spend way too much money on little =3D three-rank=3D20 trackers, with <BR>three sets of gedeckts clicking away for the rest = =3D of=3D20 their lives. </FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#000000 = =3D size=3D3D3=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 =3D face=3D3DArial=3D20 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>The sets of = gedeckts =3D is a poorly=3D20 designed practice organ. &nbsp;IMHO, it's not an <BR>organ until it =3D has an 8'=3D20 Principal (at least from tenor g). &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I would much =3D <BR>rather=3D20 have a Diapason, Flute and String to practice on than the same three =3D <BR>ranks=3D20 unified to 25 stops, thus "necessitating" pistons etc. = &nbsp;&nbsp;A=3D20 three-stop <BR>practice instrument has no need for a "console", but =3D only=3D20 keyboard(s), pedal <BR>board, and drawknobs extending from the = case.=3D20 <BR><BR><BR><BR>Bruce &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ =3D &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com=3D20 &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, = =3D   Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres at=3D20 &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT>=3D20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C0ADFF.9222E500--    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Voicing From: "mike" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:08:31 -0500     --------------A65FC70B66A4D61BCD0F0981 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Bruce,   I may be somewhat ignorant yet as to the division of technical positions in an organ building business, but it would seem like a voicer who spends so much time selecting the correct equipment to create a specific tonality, would want to also be the person who finishes and brings that design to it's ultimate success.   I suppose I began my hero-worship of voicers when I began to learn why different pipes, combinations, and mixtures sound the way they do. The correct combination of fundamental tone, overtones, and natural harmonics seem to define organ sound. The mastery of the theory along with it's application through the mechanics, physics, and other dynamics of organ building would seem to point towards the voicer as the "superintendent" responsible for the tonal success of the organ. As long as the pipe makers, woodworkers, and other building techs "stick to the print" and do so with a high level of craftsmanship and pride, the voicer's efforts can then dictate the success of the organ's sound within the acoustic of it's environment, and the purpose to it's design.   IMHO next to the organist, the voicer/finisher would seem to me the most important technical person involved in the production of fine organ music. Indeed, many others are involved, but no other is held more accountable.   Cheers Mike Gettelman   Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > In a message dated 3/16/01 6:47:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!, > mike3247@earthlink.net writes: > > > >> , >> >> I believe the Voicer is the most talented musician in the >> organic >> scheme of things. His decisions determine how close an instrument >> comes to >> sounding as designed, or duplicates a chosen style. It is upon his >> ear >> that falls the responsibility for a successful sounding instrument. > > It's very dangerous to lay the success of an instrument on one person, > unless > that personal does all of the work. The voicer's art is often > almost lost > if the finisher does not do his work. And if the mechanical people > don't do > their work properly, the voicer and finisher can't do their work. > > It's a team effort. > > Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com > with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" > Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --------------A65FC70B66A4D61BCD0F0981 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Hi Bruce, <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I may be somewhat ignorant yet as to the division of technical positions in an organ building business, but it would seem like a voicer who spends so much time selecting the correct equipment to create a specific tonality, would want to also be the person who finishes and brings that design to it's ultimate success. <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I suppose I began my hero-worship of voicers when I began to learn why different pipes, combinations, and mixtures sound the way they do. The correct combination of fundamental tone, overtones, and natural harmonics seem to define organ sound. The mastery of the = theory along with it's application through the mechanics, physics, and other = dynamics of organ building would seem to point towards the voicer as the = "superintendent" responsible for the tonal success of the organ. As long as the pipe = makers, woodworkers, and other building techs "stick to the print" and do so with a high level of craftsmanship and pride, the voicer's efforts can then dictate the success of the organ's sound within the acoustic of it's = environment, and the purpose to it's design. <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IMHO next to the organist, the voicer/finisher would seem to me the most important technical person involved in the production of fine organ music. Indeed, many others are involved, but no other is held more accountable. <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cheers <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mike Gettelman <p>Cremona502@cs.com wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>In = a message dated 3/16/01 6:47:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!,</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>mike3247@earthlink.net = writes:</font></font> <br>&nbsp; <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font = face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>,</font></font> <p><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I = believe the Voicer is the most talented musician in the organic</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>scheme of things. His = decisions determine how close an instrument comes to</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>sounding as designed, = or duplicates a chosen style. It is upon his ear</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>that falls the = responsibility for a successful sounding instrument.</font></font></blockquote>   <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>It's very = dangerous to lay the success of an instrument on one person, = unless</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>that = personal does all of the work.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The voicer's art is often almost lost</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>if the = finisher does not do his work.&nbsp;&nbsp; And if the mechanical people don't = do</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>their = work properly, the voicer and finisher can't do their work.</font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>It's a = team effort.</font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font = size=3D-1>Bruce&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp; Cremona502@cs.com</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>with the = Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!"</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Visit = Howling Acres at&nbsp;&nbsp; <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/">http://members.tripod.com/Bru= con502/</A></font></font></font></blockquote> </html>   --------------A65FC70B66A4D61BCD0F0981--