PipeChat Digest #1931 - Wednesday, March 21, 2001
 
Latest embellishment
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Jacksonville Symphony Organ Premiere Review
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Easter in San Francisco
  by "Jonathan Roussos" <jroussos@san.rr.com>
Re: Tracker Organs X POSTED A perspective!
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Easter in San Francisco
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Allen Organs
  by <AMADPoet@aol.com>
Re: Tracker Organs X POSTED A perspective!
  by <AMADPoet@aol.com>
Re: Allen Organs
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Why Little Interest in Learning Organ?
  by "Jenny Setchell" <setchell@paradise.net.nz>
Re: From Indiana
  by "Scott Davis" <stalan@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Chamadeophobia
  by "Scott Davis" <stalan@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Allen Organs
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Allen Organs
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 

(back) Subject: Latest embellishment From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:12:34 EST     --part1_c8.11fe1379.27e99242_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Not sure which list it was, nor which person, but whoever you were:   Thank you for telling me about the "approximatura". That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time and it really brightened up my week.   Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I play more approximaturas than I would like to over the course of a year. I just never knew they were legitimate!! <grin>   If they have a name, they must be legit. No? hehehe   Neil B   --part1_c8.11fe1379.27e99242_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Not sure which list it = was, nor which person, but whoever you were: <BR> <BR>Thank you for telling me about the "approximatura". &nbsp;That's the = funniest <BR>thing I've read in a long time and it really brightened up my week. = &nbsp; <BR> <BR>Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I play more approximaturas = than I <BR>would like to over the course of a year. &nbsp;&nbsp;I just never knew = they were <BR>legitimate!! &lt;grin&gt; <BR> <BR>If they have a name, they must be legit. &nbsp;No? hehehe <BR> <BR>Neil B</FONT></HTML>   --part1_c8.11fe1379.27e99242_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Jacksonville Symphony Organ Premiere Review From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:08:26 -0800   At 08:16 PM 3/20/2001 -0500, you wrote: >a presentation of a silver organ pipe to the chair of the Jacksonville=20 >City Council to recognize the city's role in bringing the organ to=20 >Jacksonville and to acknowledge that the organ is owned by the City of=20 >Jacksonville, thus making it a modern day "Municipal Organ".<snip>   See?? As our competent reviewers have sstated, the Jacksonville Casavant=20 was a rousing success! I believe this further validates my belief that the= =20 future of the organ is in the concert hall, NOT holed up in some stuffy=20 barn cranking out turgid anthems and time worn hymn tunes!   If we could only find a home for the Medinah Austin in such a venue! I'd=20 love to have it in Disney Hall here in LA, but it's not to be...yet. If=20 only I could kidnap Rosales and have Glatter-G=F6tz's shop taken over by=20 wacko Iraqi terrorists!   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Easter in San Francisco From: "Jonathan Roussos" <jroussos@san.rr.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:28:10 -0800   Hi All.   I will be in San Francisco for Easter and am looking for suggestions for Sunday morning services with good instruments with good choirs. R.C. = would be first choice with Latin prefered. Thanks Jon Roussos    
(back) Subject: Re: Tracker Organs X POSTED A perspective! From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:28:24 EST   Hi Cindy and students of the organ:   All organs built before 1870 were some form of tracker action. All connections between the console and the pipe chests were mechanical linkages, rockers and rollerboards. These were usually made of high endurance hard woods, custom crafted for each custom application. The people who indeed built them were wonderful hard working masters of the trade. They did this without any modern tools, using crude homemade tools and passing on to the next generation what they had learned from someone else.   Cabinet making, engineering, physics, trigonometry, careful drafting, metallurgy, knowledge of woods and leathers, and a copy of the book so carefully written by Dom Bedos de Celes during the late 1700's. We owe the concept of the modern pipe organ to monastic priests and clerics of a scientific bent to pioneer this dream. Dom Bedos was a Catholic priest who learned how to build organs well and documented every step of it's completed construction. The Philosophy of pipe sound goes right back to Greek and Roman teachers, philosophers who built on what was known from their past. They were responsible for the Hydralus a water powered powerful organ used in the beginning as an instrument for circuses and the amusement of kings, and Emperors.   The Great Temple had one of these organs during Jesus's time with 70 pipes of silver and gold and could be heard 10 miles away.   I hope this gives some perspective. The first modern church organ was a very crude affair built by the Benedictine Monks for Winchester Cathedral in the year 870. The Halberstadt organ was completed in 1361 by another group of German priests. By this time the die was cast, and organs tracker and otherwise have been the mainstay of church music ever since.   This in response to young students inquiring about the inner workings of the tracker pipe organ. I provided a thumbnail sketch as it were to = make it interesting, and promote further study into this wonderful instrument we call the pipe organ. A thirst for knowledge is a very good thing!   Regards to all,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Easter in San Francisco From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:44:26 EST   Hi Jon:   The churches in SF are very close together, in fact standing in front one you could probably see two or three others close by. There is a Basilica or Marion Shrine I believe on Market St. that may still have a Latin Mass. Look up Una Voce website they list every RC church that has the Mass in Latin in the US. The Archdiocese of San Francisco would also display this information on their website. The biggest Gothic Cathedral on the West coast is the Episcopalian Grace Cathedral on Nob Hill across from the Mark Hopkins Hotel on California Street. Go see it too, It's beautiful! Take particular note of the bronze west end doors. The blue in the stained glass is called Chartres blue. The formula was rediscovered and lost again after these windows were made.   Have a good time in SF church hunting,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Allen Organs From: <AMADPoet@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:46:24 EST   Howdy-   My teacher and I were stewing over something yesterday: I found an Allen organ I was considering buying that was built in 1969. My teacher said = that he had an organ that was built in the same year and the pedals were thin width wise, which kind of annoyed him. Does anyone know if this was the = norm for a certain model or time period? The organ I referred to looks very similar to the Protege, but I don't know how long that model has been = around so I can't be sure that's what it was.   Many thanks, Mandy   "The notes are right, but if I listened they would be wrong." ~Eugene = Ormandy  
(back) Subject: Re: Tracker Organs X POSTED A perspective! From: <AMADPoet@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:01:24 EST   In a message dated 3/21/01 1:30:46 AM Central Standard Time, RonSeverin@aol.com writes:   << I provided a thumbnail sketch as it were to make it interesting, and promote further study into this wonderful instrument we call the pipe organ. A thirst for knowledge is a very good thing! >>   Indeed it is...Ron, your post was a humbling read. I don't think we give = the folks who came before us enough credit for their brains, just because they =   didn't have email and espresso machines. I've been reading up on the inner =   workings of both tracker and ep organs and I'm amazed that they were = invented at all. They truly are ingenius instruments, and to think they have a = range of sounds and pitch comparable to those of an entire orchestra! Every time = I hear or play a pipe organ I'm amazed at how different each individual stop =   is, and how many wild sounds you can get out of one instrument. Quite a creature! It seems a shame that more people do not realize what a gift it = is to have something that glorious in our little world.   Mandy  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Organs From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:07:09 EST   Hi Mandy:   1969 Allens are analog but are or were good organs. Make sure everything works, and don't pay over $500. The pedals he was talking about were found on the TC-12and TC-15's They only produced flute and Diapason sounds. There were stops like Flutes softer and Diapasons become Strings. They were the cheap low end. The Diapason stops had green lettering and the Flutes black lettering. On the TC-12 or 15 don't give over $150.00   If the organ is one of the more custom two manual organs, make sure you have room for the analog equipment. They usually come in custom cabinets and the speakers are rather large.   Also think ahead when you wish to buy a better organ. Will I be able to sell it? Will I have to give it away? If the price is right, and you get your use out of it, perhaps it won't matter much! How much to fix it? At that age, if it needs repair, don't go there or do that! Keep looking!   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Why Little Interest in Learning Organ? From: "Jenny Setchell" <setchell@paradise.net.nz> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:15:15 +1200   Hi Cindy,   Hope the organ lesson went well!! Bet you find it hard to get to sleep the night after!   To your question about how do any of us interest children in the organ - = yes,we do try here in our town hall in Christchurch, New Zealand, where the Rieger organ installed in 1997 was the first concert organ in the city ever (and the only "continental" one in the country). It had been built after 25 years fundraising by almost every child and adult so the people of the city feel it is all theirs! We have tried to have lunchtime concerts for schools by getting a retired headmaster (looking for something to occupy himself) to co-ordinate dozens of buses to bring pupils in from around the city and outside in the country areas - then making the concerts both educational (without seeming to be!) with a mix of humour, visuals, and solid, uncompromising listening. We have enlisted the help of the local TV idol, who hid in the organ case and emerged after the first piece with his hands over his ears, reeling, to the wild screams and yells of the 2500 children in the hall - it was a din I'll never ever forget; and who then went on to help Martin discover the organ pipes and so on. They actually "played" - in a frolicking sense - with the organ, showing that as majestic and stunning as it looked, it was an instrument to be learned and enjoyed like any other.   The kids are the most thrilling participants and audience - they enter = into everything so fully and with so little restraint and yet will give their undivided attention if they really want to. We have run colouring in pictures competitions for the little kids, (cds of the organ as prizes - they probably wanted pop cds = ;-)))))))))!)and school teachers have run their own parallel education sessions before and after coming to the concerts in their droves. The teachers enjoy the = chance to get out of a morning's teaching, as well! It has happened on several occasions that kids have returned for the = evening "adult" concert, bringing their parents.   It's only a very small start but we have to tread carefully to build up trust and fascination. Our main problem is the small population base of the (city 300,000 roughly?) and no tradition of organ music in what is otherwise a highly musically active city. And if any kid, at any time, shows the slightest interest - we make sure they are allowed to investigate anything they want, and ask questions until they and we are blue in the face. The community as a whole is interested because they have grown with the instrument so to speak so bit by bit we are hoping to feed in more and more organ literature, and - cross fingers - it seems to be working. Sorry - a bit long, all this. My message is: trust kids - they are better equipped to enjoy organ music than we often realise.... Jenny mailto:setchell@paradise.net.nz Look out for the latest exciting CD from the Christchurch Rieger: Bonbons for Organ!. See www.nzorgan.com for details      
(back) Subject: Re: From Indiana From: "Scott Davis" <stalan@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:28:53 -0600   Congratulations to you, Jonathan, for being in the final "stages" of completing your DMA!   > spring foliage in Indiana! The hills are covered with hundreds > of thousands of dogwoods, intercut with redbud trees -- long, > willowy haikus of purple blossoms across the white.   Yes, absolutely gorgeous, Ach... sneeze... please forgive my allergies... sneeze... As a <native> of Indiana, the southern part of the state is it's most beautiful, especially the quaint towns named such as French Lick and Santa Claus... ;-)   > hardly really got to know the two recital instruments   In "my time" at I.U. those were the "407" Schantz, and the "Auditorium" Schantz. I remember when the console at the Auditorium was moved from the "crow's nest" down to the main floor. And several in my class were responsible for putting soap-powder in the Fountain and changing the marquee at organ recitals, to read "orgasm", albeit required using the "M" in P.M., much to the chagrin of our teacher, and quite adeptly avoiding the campus police.   > We give degree recitals on the 1987 Dobson tracker > The Rosales in Auer Hall is actually nearing completion   I've read of the Rosales in letters to alumni, and the Dobson was after "my time". Alas, the only tracker we had "back then" (either Walker or Holtkamp was it?) on the third floor (organ floor) was what we called the "African Queen", because it looked liked a steamboat and was in front of a wall of heavy, red velvet curtain. However, your class has organs that we never dreamed possible. "Back then" we had "407", the Auditorium, and SURELY you recall the Reuter in "204"? Are the walls still lined with Conns in "204"? That's where we did church music class, i.e. "grab-a-Conn". Ozzie Ragatz taught us how to "slither" on those... ;-)   > This isn't a snooty school   Highly competitive.   > Bloomington and the IU School of Music are cosmopolitan, > world-class places to live and study.   One would not be able to imagine such a thing amid the corn fields of southern Indiana until being there. However, the "town" of Bloomington was pretty "back-woods" when I was there in the '70's. As for cosmopolitan, yes, as the University (not just the school of music) has many persons from all over the globe teaching and studying. <But>, these same "cosmopolitans" have access to the airport and use it regularly... ;-)   > The school is huge - about 1700 students   The school of music was quite large when I was there, but I think it had even more students twenty years ago. The MAC (Musical Arts Center) houses opera productions and the voice department with a stage only second in size to the MET. The choirs and orchestras were numerous, and undergrad lecture classes normally were of 300, and above, students.   > the largest organ department in the country (world?) > fifty organists   Alas, I've not kept up with the enrollments of organ majors in organ departments in the U.S. universities. But, at the time I was in school at Indiana, there was a higher number of organ "majors". During my time, <fifty> majors would have been the enrollment in only two of the three organ studios, not counting those "non" majors studying with grad assistants. The organ studios were "huge" by today's standards, and that only leads to the <other> discussion of why enrollment is less. But if, I.U. is among, or the largest organ department in the U.S., that would only speak to professors like Marilyn Keiser. Heck, I got to study piano with Pressler, listen to the Beaux-Arts Trio in rehearsal, rehearse choirs for Robert Shaw and Helmuth Rilling, play in the studio of Eileen Farrell... attend the "pool" parties of Charles Webb... ;-)   > I never went swimming in a quarry   Oh no! Say it's not so! One cannot "truly" be considered a grad of I.U. unless you've done same... BTW - requires a "birthday-suit" and great daring!   > Bloomington is a marvelous town, and I will miss it. If you > have never visited, rent "Breaking Away" as it is filmed here   "Townies" and "slackers"... or it was in the seventies very much like that movie. You've been to the little 500? Interestingly, haven't been back since graduation, but the memories are wonderful, as would be anyone's "college" experience.   Hasn't Diane Bish taken up residence in Bloomington with the professor of harp? At least is what I had heard, she and she are quite the item.   > "town versus gown" is not anything like the way the movie > makes it out   Was when I was there.   > arrival of sushi restaurants and two more gay bars, > both signs of progress IHMO   WOW!!! We had only Bear's on third, and a wonderful Greek place on fifth?... then the Kirkwood bar... WOW!!!   Thanks for the trip down memory lane, and CONGRATS!!!   Scott Austin, Texas      
(back) Subject: Re: Chamadeophobia From: "Scott Davis" <stalan@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:33:42 -0600   > I can think of several examples of 'chamadeophobia' most are in > medium to small churches   Well, another example of "chamadeophobia" happened in The Church of St. John the Divine, Houston, Texas. The O/C at the time was Richard Forrest Woods, a consummate musician, respected by all, who had an horizontal trumpet to be mounted on the back wall in the balcony of St. John's. Said horizontal trumpet was spared no expense in it's creation. Yet, a warning was issued, play only a one note melody at first to give those balcony sitting parishioners a chance to get accustomed to the new voice of the "holy spirit" directly behind them. As it happened, at the "unveiling" the organist got very inspired and proceeded to play "chords" upon the new "pontifical" device, One lady, who happened to be one of great influence and money, ensconcing herself in the balcony to escape anything "loud", was so overcome by the entrance of the "pontifical" trumpet, that she lost control of her hymnal, flung it over the balcony, only to hit another lady of great influence and money squarely on her well healed noggin.   At a meeting with the rector, after mass, the ultimatum was put forth, that either that "thing" goes, or our money. Of course, the "thing" went, from off the back wall to the organ chamber, directly behind the rector's throne. Not to be daunted, the organist again proceeded to play "chords", without warning, upon the newly relocated (and no longer "en chamade" device) thereby blowing the unsuspecting rector out of his seat. At the next meeting with said rector in no loss for words, this, very expensive, no longer "en chamade" device, was ordered to be removed from the church. Yet, the organist, being as "we" are highly creative, had the once highly celebrated, expensive, formerly "en chamade" (removed twice,) pontifical voice, relegated to back wall of the organ, behind a pedal 16' reed. And while speaking upwards to the heavens, the organist dared not play anything but a single note upon same, and even that could hardly be heard.   True story...   Scott Austin, Texas    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Organs From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:28:55 -0800   At 02:46 AM 3/21/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I was considering buying that was built in 1969.<snip>   Analog, silicon TC-series, possibly a TC-1S?   >My teacher said that he had an organ that was built in the same year and >the pedals were thin width wise, which kind of annoyed him.<snip>   Not if it's one of the larger models...Allen pedalboards are pretty close to standard AGO/RCO in dimensions there. However, a number of models, including the TC-1 and earlier T and S series organs, were in the Allen "princess" console, with attendant "princess" pedals. Although concavity and radiation were up to snuff, the pedals were compressed slightly and = the sharp were shorter than standard and flattened on the top. Perhaps that's =   what he's referring to.   For someone versed in electronics and with some Allen experience, these = are excellent practice organs for the home, and can be had fairly inexpensively. The larger consoles are better (more ranks of generators with a reed rank) but were primarily designed for church installation, so they take up more room. You'll play hell getting a large 3 manual console =   into any home, of course, as standard door widths wont allow it. However, =   you can always remove a window, as I did!   Get some model information and I can tell you more. It's inside the = console.   dB    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Organs From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:13:35 -0800   At 03:07 AM 3/21/2001 -0500, you wrote: >The pedals he was talking about were found on the TC-12and TC-15's They >only produced flute and Diapason sounds.<snip>   Ron's right about the model numbers here. The -12 and -15 were successors =   to the original TC-1 and TC-1S.   >On the TC-12 or 15 don't give over $150.00<snip>   That's pretty low for ANY Allen, but I'd agree. Although they're good enough organs for practice, they'll need maintenance (learn to tune yourself!) now and then. I'd opt for a larger console just to get the = reed rank.   Of course, as Ron points out, maintenance is the question on ANY old e-org. Allen backs EVERY model they ever made, but you pay for that priviledge. Still, you're better off than with some BaWLd-One 5 that only =   a few old cranks like me still know how to work on! Anything digital, except the nasty sounding MOS-1 organs from the early '70s, are going to = be expensive. As far as maintenance costs, I'd take analog over very early digital anyday, inasfar as cost versus performance ratio goes.   DeserTBoB