PipeChat Digest #1957 - Monday, March 26, 2001
 
Division of Labor
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: PipeChat Digest #1956 - 03/26/01
  by <StatRussell@aol.com>
Re: Toaster Companys
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Fixing dented pipes
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
New Reader's Digest Recording
  by <Devon3000@aol.com>
Re: Fixing dented pipes
  by "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net>
Re: Fixing dented pipes
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Fritts in Princeton
  by "Joshua Haberman" <joshua@haberman.com>
Re: Division of Labor
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: IRC Reminder
  by "Patricia A. Blissenbach" <pab@inreach.com>
Re: Division of Labor
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Fw: Old technology, was PROBLEM SOLVED
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: IRC Reminder
  by "Patricia A. Blissenbach" <pab@inreach.com>
Re: Personal Experience was: to those "that have had it"
  by <ORGANUT@aol.com>
Re: Division of Labor
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Tracker for sale in Seattle
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Division of Labor From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:57:16 -0400   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1226485856=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" ; format=3D"flowed"   > >Of course, in that church (and in most churches in Quebec), they use the >French system: the organist is responsible for playing the organ. = Someone >else is given the responsibility of conducting the choir. ... > >I'm all for that system, myself. It's called "division of labour". Or >"specialization", if you prefer. Rare, indeed, is the person who is both = a >first-rate organist and a first-rate choral conductor. Why should anyone = be >expected to be both? (As most U.S. churches do seem to expect. = Although, >these days, not at either of the two major cathedrals here in New York = City.) > >Arthur LaMirande   I would be interested in knowing what percentage of you pipe chatters do both choir and organ. It rather depends on the local topography, not only in that some churches have the choir in the balcony and the organist up front and some vice versa, but also in that in some churches it is difficult if not impossible to conduct from the organ bench because of where the organ bench is. Is there anyone out there who conducts from an organ bench that is, like mine, located off to the side so that the choir cannot see your waving arms unless they have pretty good peripheral vision? If so, do you just prepare them extremely well to sing without leading them through every note?   Randy Runyon organist, Immanuel Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati runyonr@muohio.edu --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1226485856=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=3D"us-ascii"   <excerpt>   <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Of course, in that church (and in most churches in Quebec), they use the   French system: the organist is responsible for playing the organ. Someone   else is given the responsibility of conducting the choir. ...     I'm all for that system, myself. It's called "division of labour". Or   "specialization", if you prefer. Rare, indeed, is the person who is both a   first-rate organist and a first-rate choral conductor. Why should anyone be   expected to be both? (As most U.S. churches do seem to expect. Although,   these days, not at either of the two major cathedrals here in New York City.)     Arthur LaMirande   </smaller></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>   </smaller></fontfamily>I would be interested in knowing what percentage of you pipe chatters do both choir and organ. It rather depends on the local topography, not only in that some churches have the choir in the balcony and the organist up front and some vice versa, but also in that in some churches it is difficult if not impossible to conduct from the organ bench because of where the organ bench is. Is there anyone out there who conducts from an organ bench that is, like mine, located off to the side so that the choir cannot see your waving arms unless they have pretty good peripheral vision? If so, do you just prepare them extremely well to sing without leading them through every note?   Randy Runyon   organist, Immanuel Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati   runyonr@muohio.edu   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1226485856=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D--  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #1956 - 03/26/01 From: <StatRussell@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:19:13 EST     --part1_da.3caf0f5.27f10c51_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   There you are desertbob! A pipechat digest just ain't the same without you!!! Also Josh, you must be a pretty classy kid yourself to put up with =   all of us. I wish I could participate in this paintball war of Bob and Arthur. That's got to be more fun than the law allows!!! Alas, I must = pack for the next few nights as I have to move this weekend which should be a challenge as I've not found a place to move to!!! Itseems that nobody = wants an old foggie like me with a cat. Unfortunately, I'm not what one would = call rich.   Dennis   --part1_da.3caf0f5.27f10c51_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>There you are = desertbob! &nbsp;A pipechat digest just ain't the same without <BR>you!!! &nbsp;Also Josh, you must be a pretty classy kid yourself to = put up with <BR>all of us. &nbsp;I wish I could participate in this paintball war of = Bob and <BR>Arthur. &nbsp;That's got to be more fun than the law allows!!! = &nbsp;Alas, I must pack <BR>for the next few nights as I have to move this weekend which should be = a <BR>challenge as I've not found a place to move to!!! &nbsp;Itseems that = nobody wants <BR>an old foggie like me with a cat. &nbsp;Unfortunately, I'm not what = one would call <BR>rich. <BR> <BR>Dennis</FONT></HTML>   --part1_da.3caf0f5.27f10c51_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Toaster Companys From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:09:17 -0800   At 02:24 PM 3/26/2001 -0500, you wrote: >WHY are toaster dealers like used car salesmen!? Why do they trash >perfectly good instruments, when they themselves are organists? Is the >money worth more than the art and the morality? I know of a 4 manual >toaster in a church in Bayonne NJ, where a large 40 rank Kimball sits >dormant in the upper gallery. Well...<snip>   You labor under a misconception that both pipe and pipeless organ firms operate under the same business model. The pipe organ industry still operated in a very traditional, almost non-commercial mode, whereas the makers of electronic organs have always maintained a more commercial, sales-oriented structure. Allen hit the ground running in the regard, making sales an integral part of their business philosophy. Pipe organs were the enemy, much as American car dealers were the enemy to upstart Japanese car makers in the 1970s. Pipe organ builders maintain no highly specialized sales force, as do the electronic makers, and expect customers =   to more-or-less come to them for product, whereas the electronic manufacturers maintain formal "dealer networks" consisting of franchisees. Big pipe builders of the past relied on "representatives", who not only handled the sale and specification of the instrument, but = took on the complex work of installation. Electronic franchisees aren't burdened with nearly the amount of work, as the box is ready-made from the =   factory, the only "work" involved being placement and installation of loudspeakers and power amplifiers.   Thus, the electronic franchisee can concentrate on sales force, rather = than technical and craft forces. This is changing, however, as witnessed by = the recent addition of Reuter to many Allen dealers' product line. Thus, the sales force that has served the electronic organ business so well since after World War II will now finally be available to a pipe builder. This could spell a major turnaround for Reuter, which has been rather down on its heels in recent times. If I were Kim Austin, I'd be a little worried, =   as Allen's dealer franchise network has proven itself effective decade after decade in closing major sales for major money.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Fixing dented pipes From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:43:46 EST   Douglas:   Pipe dents are routinely removed using a mandrel nearly the same diameter of the pipe. You need to be shown how to do this, but once shown you could do this all day without any mishaps. A short flat piece of wood is gently rapped length wise across the dent with the mandrel inside the = pipe. a few gentle raps and the dent is gone. You need to slightly rotate the = pipe while doing this. The Mandrel of course is slid inside the pipe to the = spot where the dent is.   Bud Abbott of Abbott and Seiker showed me how to do this many years ago. He deliberately mangled a new pipe about two feet long and had it back to pristine condition in about two minutes. I was amazed.   Regards,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: New Reader's Digest Recording From: <Devon3000@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:44:41 EST   I just received the finished product. It's called 101 Best-Loved Hymns, = from Reader's Digest. A few months ago Larry Dalton (composer, arranger, = Steinway Artist) asked me to record five hymn arrangements at Christ Church of Oak Brook, in Illinois (80 rank Austin organ, 1978/80/82/86/01). He roughly sketched the arrangements, and told me to do what I usually do on Sundays = (He has performed at Christ Church, and heard me do hymns) and he would adapt = the choir parts to what I played. He played the hymn melodies from a = Clavinova into a headset so I would play the nuances in the music that he wanted. = He took the recordings to Nashville, hired a chorus, and added the choir = parts in the studio. The results are stunning. It's not reality, because I = could never accompany a 20-voice choir with near-full organ. But it sure is thrilling to hear.   I was a bit surprised, but not after I thought about it, to find out that just about all the other selections on this 4-CD set are reissues of = previous Reader's Digest stuff. Patsy Cline, Pat Boone, the Mormon Tabernacle = Choir, and others are simply reissues. I guess the upside of this is that I'll probably be reissued 60 years from now after I'm long gone.   While it's only 5 out of 101 hymns, I think our efforts are the best of = the lot, and as Larry gets to do a lot for Reader's Digest (He has done a lot = of the orchestra arrangements and recordings), I hope to do more work. It = sure was fun.   Anyone wants to order, contact me privately. You may have already seen = the offer in a sweepstakes mailing, if you get those.   Devon Hollingsworth, in freezing Willowbrook (what ever happened to = spring?)  
(back) Subject: Re: Fixing dented pipes From: "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:11:45 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0078_01C0B5FE.B0B75760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Hi - there's 2 ways of fixing dents in metal pipes.   1. Get a wooden, or better a metal, mandrel smaller than the pipe. Anchor the mandrel somehow and slip the pipe onto it. Massage the pipe over the mandrel,=3D20 carefully working the dent out - easier on spotted metal than on zinc.   2. Make up a wooden internal expander - 2 pieces of=3D20 1x 1 or so, with an opposite ramp on each one at the=3D20 same end. =3D20   When they're in the pipe, slide the 2 pieces in opposite direction, so the ramps move the pieces apart.   Ed, in Maine ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Orgnplayer@aol.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: Fixing dented pipes     Okay, we've been talking about cleaning and polishing spotted metal=3D20 pipes...does anyone have any ideas about how to remove dents from =3D them? I=3D20 have a used rank that I'm using for facade pipes but a couple of the =3D larger=3D20 pipes have small dents in them. The metal is quite soft and easily =3D pushed=3D20 out of shape at the top edge of the pipe, but I can't seem to rub out = =3D the=3D20 dents from the inside.=3D20   Douglas=3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0078_01C0B5FE.B0B75760 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Hi - there's 2 ways of fixing dents = in =3D metal=3D20 pipes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>1.&nbsp; Get a wooden, or better a = =3D metal, mandrel=3D20 smaller</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>than the pipe.&nbsp; Anchor the = mandrel =3D somehow and=3D20 slip</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>the pipe onto it.&nbsp; Massage the = =3D pipe over the=3D20 mandrel, </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>carefully working the dent out - = easier =3D on spotted=3D20 metal</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>than on zinc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>2.&nbsp; Make up a wooden internal = =3D expander - 2=3D20 pieces of </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>1x 1 or so, with </FONT><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>an=3D20 opposite&nbsp; ramp on each one at the </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>same end.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>When they're in the pipe, slide the 2 = =3D pieces in=3D20 opposite</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>direction, so the ramps move the = pieces =3D   apart.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Ed, in Maine</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = =3D 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A href=3D3D"mailto:Orgnplayer@aol.com"=3D20 title=3D3DOrgnplayer@aol.com>Orgnplayer@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org"=3D20 title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org>pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 26, 2001 = =3D 12:46=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fixing dented =3D pipes</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>Okay, = we've =3D been=3D20 talking about cleaning and polishing spotted metal <BR>pipes...does =3D anyone=3D20 have any ideas about how to remove dents from them? &nbsp;I <BR>have a = =3D used=3D20 rank that I'm using for facade pipes but a couple of the larger =3D <BR>pipes have=3D20 small dents in them. &nbsp;The metal is quite soft and easily pushed =3D <BR>out=3D20 of shape at the top edge of the pipe, but I can't seem to rub out = the=3D20 <BR>dents from the inside. <BR><BR>Douglas</FONT>=3D20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0078_01C0B5FE.B0B75760--    
(back) Subject: Re: Fixing dented pipes From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:07:27 EST   In a message dated 3/26/01 12:48:34 PM EST, Orgnplayer@aol.com writes:   > The metal is quite soft and easily pushed > out of shape at the top edge of the pipe, but I can't seem to rub out = the > dents from the inside. > You didn't say what the pipes are made of, but here are a coupl of things = for your consideration...   If the pipes are made of zinc, and they are fairly old, the metal may have =   crystalized, thbus making dents more of a challenge - but not impossible - = to remove.   If you can find a dowel slightly smaller in diameter than the inside dimention of the pipe you may be able to remove the dents by using a flat piece of wood with a thin (1/8th inch thick) piece of felt glued to the surface to form the pipe around the dowel like was done when the pipe was originally made but the diameter must be pretty colse for this to work. = ALSO you need to stay away from the area of the upper lip if these are speaking =   pipes so that the upper lip is not deformed in the process. I usually round-off the tip of the dowel to make insertion a bit easier. the rounded =   front edge is also useful in working out dents if they are not too far = down the pipe from the top.   If the pipes are painted, you may find that fixing the dents will crack = the paint...that will necessitate re-painting the pipes.   good luck   Rick M Staunton VA  
(back) Subject: Re: Fritts in Princeton From: "Joshua Haberman" <joshua@haberman.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:15:33 -0800   * Oboe32@aol.com (Oboe32@aol.com) wrote: > For those of you who have not looked into, or heard about the new Paul > Fritts organ at the Princeton Seminary, look for it! The organ is > incredible! Joan Lippincott gave the dedicatory three times with > choirs of the Seminary, guests, and a large week of organ study to > follow with major organists and builders from around the world. The > organ is two manuals and roughly 50 ranks.   Wow, that sounds really similar to the organ I play here at the University of Puget Sound. Fritts sure likes to stuff as much as possible into two manuals, huh? :-)   Joshua   -- Joshua Haberman <joshua@haberman.com> University of Puget Sound <joshua@debian.org> http://www.reverberate.org <jhaberman@ups.edu>  
(back) Subject: Re: Division of Labor From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:49:53 -0500   You're describing Saint Luke's pretty well. The organist/choirmaster is maybe two feet from the closest singers, but they're at his back, and he's to the left of them (except the men, who can see him peripherally). He conducts very little. When there's a key cutoff or attack, he'll have one of the sopranos do that right from the front row. It works.   Alan   > From: Randolph Runyon <runyonr@muohio.edu> > Subject: Division of Labor > > Is there anyone out there who conducts from an organ bench that is, like = mine, > located off to the side so that the choir cannot see your waving arms = unless > they have pretty good peripheral vision? If so, do you just prepare = them > extremely well to sing without leading them through every note?    
(back) Subject: Re: IRC Reminder From: "Patricia A. Blissenbach" <pab@inreach.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:57:31 -0800   How does this work? What do we have to do to participate? Patty B-bach     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Subject: Re: IRC Reminder     > At 12:28 PM 3/26/2001 -0600, you wrote: > >Just a reminder that the PipeChat IRC group will be meeting tonight > >beginning at 9 PM EASTERN time.<snip> >      
(back) Subject: Re: Division of Labor From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:24:29 EST   In a message dated 3/26/01 4:06:36 PM EST, runyonr@muohio.edu writes:   > Is there anyone out there > who conducts from an organ bench that is, like mine, located off to > the side so that the choir cannot see your waving arms unless they > have pretty good peripheral vision? If so, do you just prepare them > extremely well to sing without leading them through every note? I play and conduct from the console. Of course, preparation is paramount, = but when the choir sings the responses, they must face the back corner of the chancel area to see me. The way we solved that problem for the Anthem is = that the choir lines up in 2 rows, men behind the communion rail, ladies in = front, and then the choir is to my back, so they can all see my cues, whether by hand, or a nod of the head, or whatever. FWIW, i'd like to string up the architect who designed this church's sanctuary/chancel. He succeeded in making this place totally non-functional for music logistically and acoustically as well.   Rick M Staunton VA  
(back) Subject: Fw: Old technology, was PROBLEM SOLVED From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:30:55 -0500   I'm GLAD I'm not a kid today (49yo). I well remember roaring steam locos, and I cut my teeth on my dads workbench back home rebuilding gasoline lawnmower engines -AND a go-cart! (my organ teacher had fits about that). Gee, I'm butch.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: <MickBerg@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 2:31 PM Subject: Old technology, was PROBLEM SOLVED     > I would sit for ages, mesmerized by the "clothesline" system installed = in the > North London Drapery Store in Muswell Hill, London. The canisters were > catapulted along the lines at what seemed breakneck speed, hurtling = round > corners and crashing to a stop at the cashier's booth. > > The kids of today, who have never seen anything like this, or a steam > locomotive at full blast, have really missed out, I think, by not seeing this > kind of mechanical technology that can be readily understood. They can keep > their Gameboys, Playstations, etc., as far as I'm concerned! > > A look inside a tracker organ wouldn't be a bad thing! > > Mick Berg. >    
(back) Subject: Re: IRC Reminder From: "Patricia A. Blissenbach" <pab@inreach.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:55:16 -0800   Okay, I figured it out. Guess I'll get to chat with somebody tonight. BR, Patty B-bach   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia A. Blissenbach" <pab@inreach.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 2:57 PM Subject: Re: IRC Reminder     > How does this work? What do we have to do to participate? > Patty B-bach >   >    
(back) Subject: Re: Personal Experience was: to those "that have had it" From: <ORGANUT@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:54:28 EST   In a message dated 03/26/2001 10:23:12 AM Central Standard Time, Pologaptommy@aol.com writes:   << Well, I was there alone, and he and his hateful wife walk in to = practice. We start out, and he just cant get it right, blaming the whole thing on me. = I was just doing exactly as he had commanded. Finally his wife gets up and =   says "honey, give me the keys, I am going to sit in the car, I am not = going to sit in here and put up with this crap any longer (looking in my direction)." I just couldn't take it anymore. His wife was always mean to me after = the pastor left. She would come and monitor me on Saturdays to make sure I = did not steal anything. So my parents (who then loved me) decided to switch churches, and find me = a better position. I will always have a special place in my heart for what that church used = to be, and for what I wish it could still be. I missed it dearly for a long =   time, but finally I have gotten over it, but still fail to find that kind = of happiness in any other church. Thanks for reading my rather windy post. But I want you to know it comes =   from my heart. This is an experience which pierced me deep within, and something I will never, ever forget. Thanks again, Josh >>   Josh, If anyone ever treats you this way again or talks to you this way, = look them straight in the eye, tell them to go straight to HELL and to auto impregnate themselves on the way. They will know never to dump on you = again. People will treat you this way only if you let them. I'm pullin for ya!    
(back) Subject: Re: Division of Labor From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:24:21 -0800   While that IS the French system in LARGE churches, I encountered smaller = churches in France where the (presumably) ONLY organist descended from the = Grand Orgue for the High Mass and played the front organ and directed the = choir ... the front organ was often a harmonium.   The old British system, of course, was Organist and Master of the = Choristers, with Organ Scholars doing the playing when the Organist needed = to conduct. It's only recently that some cathedral posts in the British = Isles have been divided.   I would say the VAST majority of American Episcopal and Anglican churches = still have Organist/Choirmasters, with the occasional assistance of = someone else to do the playing when needed.   I am O/C, and we're in the back; we'll be in the back in the new interim = church; I'm TOYING with the idea of pushing for a chancel choir in stalls = in the eventual permanent main church, mostly because we will have a = seminary attached with the daily obligation of the Offices, so we'd be = singing festal Evensong a lot more.   I grew UP with O/Cs playing and directing in divided chancels up front, = and I know how to DO it ... it's just easier to throw hymn-books at the = sopranos if we're in the west gallery (grin).   Also, it was a REAL pain in most places to find room for instrumentalists = in the front ... at St. Paul's Cathedral in San Diego, they used to put = the orchestra BEHIND the decani side of the choir, in the south transept = (St. Paul's was never finished ... the chancel is in the crossing ... = there is no Great Quire) ... not very satisfactory. At the last revision = of the chancel, the choir was put across the east wall behind the = free-standing altar, but that still doesn't leave much room for = instrumentalists.   My west gallery will be big enough to play soccer, even in the interim = church (grin).   At present, I sit foursquare in the middle of the choir, which is arranged = in a semi-circle around me; we'll have the same arrangement in the interim = building.   *I* have never found divided responsibilities to be satisfactory. If I'm = conducting, I can't convey to the organist quickly enough what to do if = the sopranos come in a beat early, or what to do to cover some glitch in = the ceremonial up front. Ours is the most complex liturgy in the Western = Church ... a separate conductor or organist would HAVE to know as much = about it as I do (grin). I can see that divided responsibilities would be = less of a problem in non-liturgical churches.   Cheers,   Bud   Randolph Runyon wrote:   > Of course, in that church (and in most churches in Quebec), they = use the > French system: the organist is responsible for playing the organ. = Someone > else is given the responsibility of conducting the choir. ... > > I'm all for that system, myself. It's called "division of labour". = Or > "specialization", if you prefer. Rare, indeed, is the person who is = both a > first-rate organist and a first-rate choral conductor. Why should = anyone be > expected to be both? (As most U.S. churches do seem to expect. = Although, > these days, not at either of the two major cathedrals here in New = York City.) > > Arthur LaMirande > > I would be interested in knowing what percentage of you pipe chatters do = both choir and organ. It rather depends on the local topography, not only = in that some churches have the choir in the balcony and the organist up = front and some vice versa, but also in that in some churches it is = difficult if not impossible to conduct from the organ bench because of = where the organ bench is. Is there anyone out there who conducts from an = organ bench that is, like mine, located off to the side so that the choir = cannot see your waving arms unless they have pretty good peripheral = vision? If so, do you just prepare them extremely well to sing without = leading them through every note? > Randy Runyon > organist, Immanuel Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati > runyonr@muohio.edu    
(back) Subject: Re: Tracker for sale in Seattle From: <JKVDP@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:33:14 EST   Hello Tuba: The Bosch organ is still available, but several people are interested. = What about you? Thanks. Jerry van der Pol