PipeChat Digest #2083 - Saturday, May 5, 2001
 
Re: Carpeting the choir room...
  by "Stephen Barker" <steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood.
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood.
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Carpeting the choir room...
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Rebuttal to the Rebuttal to the rebuttal
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: celeste tuning
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood.
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: Rebuttal to the Rebuttal to the rebuttal
  by "jakorns" <jakorns@home.com>
Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood.
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re:  Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Carpeting the choir room... From: "Stephen Barker" <steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 12:44:11 +0100   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0024_01C0D561.15CD6460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Oh how I wish I had a choir room... *wishing*     Steve Barker Canterbury UK     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0024_01C0D561.15CD6460 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>Oh how I wish =3D I&nbsp;had a choir=3D20 room...&nbsp; *wishing*</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>Steve =3D Barker</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D2>Canterbury</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT = size=3D3D2>UK</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0024_01C0D561.15CD6460--    
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood. From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 20:51:43 +0800   Sorry Bob, but we can beat that. The Wm Hill organ in St John's Church Albany West Australia was built in 1890 and had its first restoration in 1975 after 85 years. One in another church by Kirkland was also built in 1890, had a couple of stops added in 1941 and was restored completely in 1995. Additions were removed.Back like new for about $7000 cost.   A Compton Electronic in a Kalgoorlie Church was installed in 1948 and removed in 1995 - completely out of action and couldn't be fixed for lack of parts.   OK you gave a couple of examples and I have matched them. However the instruments I have mentioned are now 110 years old. How well will that Rodgers be funciotning in another 50 or 60 years?   Bob E.   P/S. Well, I know you can talk your way out of most things Bob so I await your reply with anticipation.     Bob Scarborough wrote: >=20 > This just in from the e-org list. Now, how many 1967 M=F8llers, =C6-Ss= , > Crashavants, what have you, can match THIS record for > reliability? Answer: NONE. Add to this the hundreds of thousands of > kilowatt-hours of electricity saved, and you see why the electronic pos= eur > is taking over ever more. >=20 > Quoting the post: >=20 > "Well, Jan, congratulations on (Rodgers) Model 36C, #35229. This organ= has > been in constant use since 1967 with only a routine maintenance call on= ce a > year. Just one serious failure - a zener diode in the power supply gav= e up > six or seven years ago. In about 1990 we cleaned all the pots and revo= iced > it. Last week all it needed was a couple of small electrolytic caps, a= #19 > bulb, and a little spot tuning. >=20 > Is the organ out of date? Of course. Does the church want to replace > it? Not on your life. It's outlived four organists, uncountable choir > directors and a mess of preachers - and still does a great job of leadi= ng > worship. Its only real weakness is an outsourced Klann combination act= ion > (ka-CHUNK!) that you can hear in the next county." >=20 > Out of date, yes, but I played a Rodgers 36D (same thing, with drawknob= s) > and have to admit it did a FINE job for the "average" church that's not > trying to impress anyone. This isn't a fluke, either, as MANY original= 20 > and 30 series Rodgerses and TC-model Allens crank up reliably every Sun= day > to do their jobs as "church appliances". Not so for as many pipe organ= s! >=20 > To further rub salt in the wound, I know of at least three 1940s Allens > (B-T and W-T models) that are still in regular Sunday service, all with= out > major dollar expenditures over the years for maintenance and > repairs. They've most DEFINITELY disproved the "pipe organs last longe= r" > sales pitch! Someone had better get the heads-up and start modernizing= the > pipe organ for such reliability. >=20 > DeserTBoB >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE: http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood. From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 08:31:46 -0500   The best example of reliability and longevity I have come across in the = USA concerns the 1802 David Tannenberg organ at Hebron Lutheran Church, = Madison, Virginia. This was playing every Sunday for over 190 years until recently = when it was briefly out of commission while being restored by Taylor & Boody. = Even the original leather job on the bellows lasted over 150 years.   We at Quimby Pipe Organs have just shipped out this week a small two = manual Moller organ built in 1894. It came from a church in Cleveland, Ohio, via = the Organ Clearing House and is being installed at All Saints Anglican Church, = Tulsa, Oklahoma, where we are hoping it will play for the first time at tomorrow morning's service. Before we restored it, the instrument appears to have = had almost no repair in its 107 years of existence. The original leather was = still holding wind on the reservoir after 106 years when I took it apart last = October.   Some more recent pipe organs have also proved extremely reliable. The = only repair the von Beckerath at St. Michael's Episcopal Church in New York = City had in more than thirty years was rebushing of the pedalboard -- something = that even electronics need!   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Carpeting the choir room... From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 08:42:10 -0500     --------------BE6D1F5875684C32F78F706F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I agree with Bruce. A little reverberation helps the choir to listen to each other, and get to hear pitch and blend better. Our rehearsal space -- the parish house (we alas don't have a choir room) -- is a little less reverberant than the church, but still very nice. My advice: stick to lino, especially when beagles are around.   John Speller, St. Mark's, St. Louis.Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > In a message dated 5/4/01 4:20:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Oboe32@aol.com > writes: > > > >> , >> A church I know is puting new all-purpose carpeting in >> and wanted >> to >> know if they should carpet their little 16 by 20 choir room >> or leave it >> with >> linoleum. Anyone have any suggestions? >> >> > > I would say NO! Although you don't want a really live small > room for > rehearsals, singing in a room deadened with carpet is very > strenuous because > it's so hard to hear yourself or anyone around you because the > sound cannot > travel. I would leave the linoleum, regardless of ugliness, > and do whatever > acoustic control you want with adjustable draperies. > > In my opinion, carpet is ALWAYS a cop-out!   --------------BE6D1F5875684C32F78F706F Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML> I agree with Bruce.&nbsp; A little reverberation helps the choir to listen to each other, and get to hear pitch and blend better.&nbsp; Our rehearsal space -- the parish house (we alas don't have a choir room) -- is a little less reverberant than the church, but still very nice.&nbsp; My advice: stick to lino, especially when beagles are around. <P>John Speller, <BR>St. Mark's, St. Louis.Cremona502@cs.com wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE><FONT FACE=3D"arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>In = a message dated 5/4/01 4:20:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, = Oboe32@aol.com</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>writes:</FONT></FONT> <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><FONT = FACE=3D"arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>,</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"arial,helvetica"><FONT = SIZE=3D-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A church I know is puting new all-purpose carpeting in and = wanted</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>to</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>know if they should = carpet their little 16 by 20 choir room or leave it</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>with</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>linoleum. Anyone have = any suggestions?</FONT></FONT> <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>   <P><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>I would = say NO!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Although you don't want a really live small room for</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000"><FONT = SIZE=3D-1>rehearsals, singing in a room deadened with carpet is very strenuous = because</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>it's so = hard to hear yourself or anyone around you because the sound = cannot</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000"><FONT = SIZE=3D-1>travel.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would leave the linoleum, regardless of ugliness, and do = whatever</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>acoustic = control you want with adjustable draperies.</FONT></FONT></FONT> <P><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000"><FONT SIZE=3D-1>In my = opinion, carpet is ALWAYS a cop-out!</FONT></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>   --------------BE6D1F5875684C32F78F706F--    
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuttal to the Rebuttal to the rebuttal From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 11:08:59 EDT     --part1_d9.13f76292.2825718b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 5/4/01 9:37:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, = jakorns@home.com writes:     > Not to beat a dead horse Bruce, but I wasn't commenting on the merits of =   > moving the organ. Bob's original rebuttal concerned the economics of > electronics versus pipe repair. The second rebuttal was concerned with = how > cheaply a group moved a pipe organ. My rebuttal was based solely on the =   > economic argument of Bob's rebuttal. >   But if the long-range results of the acuisition are not considered then = the point is moot. It would be even cheaper to move a stereo in. So stereos =   beat digitoids! The first priority should be the quality of sound = produced, not quantity or cheapness. I really worries me when organists seem to ignore this and make public statements that may be read by the = impressionable novices who might me lurking on the list.   As an organist, I feel bound to support the highest quality in organ sound =   (which just happends to come out of pipes IMHO!).   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_d9.13f76292.2825718b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 5/4/01 9:37:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jakorns@home.com <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Not to beat a dead = horse Bruce, but I wasn't commenting on the merits of <BR>moving the organ. &nbsp;Bob's original rebuttal concerned the = economics of <BR>electronics versus pipe repair. The second rebuttal was concerned with = how <BR>cheaply a group moved a pipe organ. &nbsp;My rebuttal was based solely = on the <BR>economic argument of Bob's rebuttal. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>But if the long-range results of the acuisition are not considered = then the <BR>point is moot. &nbsp;&nbsp;It would be even cheaper to move a stereo = in. &nbsp;So stereos <BR>beat digitoids! &nbsp;The first priority should be the quality of = sound produced, <BR>not quantity or cheapness. &nbsp;&nbsp;I really worries me when = organists seem to <BR>ignore this and make public statements that may be read by the = impressionable <BR>novices who might me lurking on the list. <BR> <BR>As an organist, I feel bound to support the highest quality in organ = sound <BR>(which just happends to come out of pipes IMHO!). <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_d9.13f76292.2825718b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: celeste tuning From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 11:10:24 EDT     --part1_e2.1435a291.282571e0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 5/4/01 9:39:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, organist@total.net writes:     > Everyone can have an opinion, > as long as they're not mean and nasty about it. > >   Oh, for Pete's sake,. Even mean and nasty is occasionall refreshing.. = Too much saccharine sweet makes me wanna puke! ;-)   That's why DeSseRtBoOb and I get along so well! ;-)   BBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA   teeheeheehee   etc...   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_e2.1435a291.282571e0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 5/4/01 9:39:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>organist@total.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Everyone can have = an opinion, <BR>as long as they're not mean and nasty about it. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Oh, for Pete's sake,. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Even mean and = nasty is occasionall refreshing.. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>Too much saccharine sweet makes me wanna puke! &nbsp;&nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR>That's why DeSseRtBoOb and I get along so well! &nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR>BBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <BR> <BR>teeheeheehee <BR> <BR>etc... <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_e2.1435a291.282571e0_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood. From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 08:13:43 -0700 (PDT)   Personally, I really don't think we need to get into the old pipes vs. electronic thread again. It's a waste of time at this point. I've heard excellent and awful pipe organs, and excellent and awful electronic organs. A great artist can make almost any instrument sound wonderful.     --- Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> wrote: > This just in from the e-org list. Now, how many > 1967 M=F8llers, =C6-Ss, > Crashavants, what have you, can match THIS record > for > reliability? Answer: NONE. Add to this the > hundreds of thousands of > kilowatt-hours of electricity saved, and you see why > the electronic poseur > is taking over ever more. > > Quoting the post: > > "Well, Jan, congratulations on (Rodgers) Model 36C, > #35229. This organ has > been in constant use since 1967 with only a routine > maintenance call once a > year. Just one serious failure - a zener diode in > the power supply gave up > six or seven years ago. In about 1990 we cleaned > all the pots and revoiced > it. Last week all it needed was a couple of small > electrolytic caps, a #19 > bulb, and a little spot tuning. > > Is the organ out of date? Of course. Does the > church want to replace > it? Not on your life. It's outlived four > organists, uncountable choir > directors and a mess of preachers - and still does a > great job of leading > worship. Its only real weakness is an outsourced > Klann combination action > (ka-CHUNK!) that you can hear in the next county." > > Out of date, yes, but I played a Rodgers 36D (same > thing, with drawknobs) > and have to admit it did a FINE job for the > "average" church that's not > trying to impress anyone. This isn't a fluke, > either, as MANY original 20 > and 30 series Rodgerses and TC-model Allens crank up > reliably every Sunday > to do their jobs as "church appliances". Not so for > as many pipe organs! > > To further rub salt in the wound, I know of at least > three 1940s Allens > (B-T and W-T models) that are still in regular > Sunday service, all without > major dollar expenditures over the years for > maintenance and > repairs. They've most DEFINITELY disproved the > "pipe organs last longer" > sales pitch! Someone had better get the heads-up > and start modernizing the > pipe organ for such reliability. > > DeserTBoB > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuttal to the Rebuttal to the rebuttal From: "jakorns" <jakorns@home.com> Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 10:15:39 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0010_01C0D54C.558CDE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Ah, but Bruce have you heard that wonderful Gulbransen digital hymnal? = =3D20 No organist needed, just push a button. I'ts the next best thing to an 8 = =3D track!(grin) Jeff=3D20 Bruce wrote: "But if the long-range results of the acuisition are not considered =3D then the=3D20 point is moot. It would be even cheaper to move a stereo in. So =3D stereos=3D20 beat digitoids!" Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com =3D20     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0010_01C0D54C.558CDE60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>Ah, but Bruce have you heard that = =3D wonderful=3D20 Gulbransen digital hymnal?&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>No organist needed, just push a = =3D button. I'ts the=3D20 next best thing to an 8 track!(grin)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>Jeff </FONT><FONT =3D face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#000000>Bruce wrote:</FONT><BR>"But if the long-range results = =3D of the=3D20 acuisition are not considered then the <BR>point is moot. =3D &nbsp;&nbsp;It would=3D20 be even cheaper to move a stereo in. &nbsp;So stereos <BR>beat=3D20 digitoids!"<BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~=3D20 &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 <BR></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0010_01C0D54C.558CDE60--    
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood. From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 11:18:48 EDT     --part1_38.15a5d733.282573d8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 5/4/01 9:50:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RonSeverin@aol.com writes:     > It's down right ludicris to place a pipe organ in a > dead room.   I totally disagree. Christ Church Cathedral--Houston is a perfect = example. The room is dead as a doornail, but the organ was designed with this in = mind and sounds fabulous, albeit without lavish warmth and reverberation. But = an electrodigitoid would sound even worse, ESPECIALLY with phakoreverb erb = erb erb erb erb!   Most 19th century builders voiced and finished according to the rooms the organs would be heard in and the results were most often wonderful. If = the premise is that pipe organs ONLY sound good in good rooms and if the room = is not good then a pipe organ should not be place therein, there would be = dang few pipe organs in this country, especially in recital halls which are = always geared to the almost dead acoustics that orchestras seem to enjoy.     > pipe organ going > in to speak through wool and lots of it. Artificial reverberation is to = be > applied.   I think the problem here is that the "powers that be" are too impressed = with technology for technolog's sake and have subscribed to the "if it moves = mike it; if it doesn't move carpet it" philosophy which glorifies comfort over everything else. Ruin the room acoustically and then make all desired corrections artifically. It doesn't work and after a few years they will =   realize it and try to correct that problem with yet another sound system, until someday someone walks in with a bucket-load of credentials and says, =   "Well, if you just take up the damn carpet....."   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_38.15a5d733.282573d8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 5/4/01 9:50:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>RonSeverin@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It's down right = ludicris to place a pipe organ in a <BR>dead room. </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I totally disagree. &nbsp;Christ Church = Cathedral--Houston is a perfect example. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>The room is dead as a doornail, but the organ was designed with this = in mind <BR>and sounds fabulous, albeit without lavish warmth and reverberation. = &nbsp;&nbsp;But an <BR>electrodigitoid would sound even worse, ESPECIALLY with phakoreverb = erb erb <BR>erb erb erb! <BR> <BR>Most 19th century builders voiced and finished according to the rooms = the <BR>organs would be heard in and the results were most often wonderful. = &nbsp;&nbsp;If the <BR>premise is that pipe organs ONLY sound good in good rooms and if the = room is <BR>not good then a pipe organ should not be place therein, there would be = dang <BR>few pipe organs in this country, especially in recital halls which are = always <BR>geared to the almost dead acoustics that orchestras seem to enjoy. <BR> <BR> <BR> There is a new assembly hall going up that has a massive <BLOCKQUOTE = TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">pipe organ going <BR>in to speak through wool and lots of it. Artificial reverberation is = to be <BR>applied. </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I think the problem here is that the "powers that be" are too = impressed with <BR>technology for technolog's sake and have subscribed to the "if it moves mike <BR>it; if it doesn't move carpet it" philosophy which glorifies comfort = over <BR>everything else. &nbsp;&nbsp;Ruin the room acoustically and then make = all desired <BR>corrections artifically. &nbsp;&nbsp;It doesn't work and after a few = years they will <BR>realize it and try to correct that problem with yet another sound = system, <BR>until someday someone walks in with a bucket-load of credentials and = says, <BR>"Well, if you just take up the damn carpet....." <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_38.15a5d733.282573d8_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 11:39:44 EDT   Jackson Williams writes:     >Personally, I really don't think we need to get into >the old pipes vs. electronic thread again. It's a >waste of time at this point. I've heard excellent and >awful pipe organs, and excellent and awful electronic >organs. A great artist can make almost any instrument >sound wonderful.<<   Let me know if you decide to run for office, Jack. I'll vote for you if = for no other reason than the above statement.   If anyone is keeping score, the pipes/electronic argument started as a = draw and is still a draw and will remain a draw ad infinitum. Despite the = lavish waste of bandwidth on the subject, not a single mind has changed and by = now we all know each other's stand on the subject. As to the tender ears of neophytes, it is doubtful that any of us will have a profound effect on = their eventual preferences.   On to more productive things!! Bruce, how delightful. You can tee again. = :)   >teeheeheehee<< (snip)   Jim P