PipeChat Digest #2087 - Sunday, May 6, 2001
 
McGill U.
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Bob's remarks about EM.EP and sliders
  by "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net>
Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood.
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: what's an organist to DO? (grin)
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Rhosymedre...
  by "Colin Hulme" <colin_hulme@lineone.net>
Re: Rhosymedre...
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Rhosymedre...
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
wired EM chests
  by <support@opensystemsorgans.com>
Re: Rhosymedre...
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
sluggish electric pulldowns
  by <support@opensystemsorgans.com>
Re: Carpeting the choir room...
  by "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: Rhosymedre...
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Organ Recital by David Briggs
  by <NAShepherd@aol.com>
Re: sluggish electric pulldowns
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: sluggish electric pulldowns
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: what's an organist to DO? (grin)
  by <ahremsen40@aol.com>
Re: sluggish electric pulldowns
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Easter III - St. Matthew's, Costa Mesa CA (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Carpeting the choir room...
  by "Stephen Barker" <steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: McGill U. From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 07:20:33 -0400   Redpath Hall has a Helmut Wolff tracker. Carlo, please send me again the = 3 Casavants you wanted lookups on. I accidentedly deleted that message = along with the street St. Augustine is on. Thank you. Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: Bob's remarks about EM.EP and sliders From: "Wayne Grauel" <wgvideo@attglobal.net> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 08:25:09 -0400   Bob, I'll agree with you on the advantages of em chests. Much easier to deal with and less trouble. Especially if you now consider MIDI protocol, run an entire division over a cat 5 cable!   On sliders, I would only say that sliders speak differently than any other chest, and are less trouble due to the lack of numbers of moving parts. These chests tend to "breath" more upon speaking. Something, that some people can hear and appreciate when faced with good examples of what that is supposed to sound like. In a dry room I don't think anyone really cares! Stand in the middle of Duke Chapel and listen".... you can really hear it. Also a lot less hardware. one device takes care of all of the like notes ( "C" for example). This adds to the character of the instrument. But here again, each person will have different expectations and what they like or think is pleasing "hear". The big downside of a slider chest that is not hooked to a mechanical action..... loose a magnet or device control here and you're dead in the water for that note on the whole chest, not just one pipe!   As far as playing trackers, yes, some organs do take a little effort, and some are like diving into a swimming pool, the key travels can be excessive, but some are like playing a harpsichord! I've played trackers that were a light as a feather. (Richard Howell.. Epiphany Episcopal Church, Towson MD is a good example) I equate it to playing a grand piano. There are some distinct advantages to having some resistance and this shows up over time in technique. You do acquire a feel for what you're doing. And the biggest advantage is, if you're playing correctly, your technique (or chops) will really be the winner here. One real disadvantage to playing a trackers is... you can't be a sloppy player or it will really turn around and bite you in the tail. Keys slices and poor keyboard technique and fingering really show up on a good mechanical action... Big Time! But to those who have never experienced of both types of actions for any extended length of time.... like a job, or studying for a senior recital on a mechanical instrument in college, one will never really get an understanding as to the differences, and really be able to speak or offer their opinions with authority as to their choice of actions or personal preferences. Ask anyone what they would rather play (just in the action.... not considering the sound).... an acoustic grand piano or a roland or yamaha digital keyboard?   Wayne Grauel    
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuttal to the "pipes last longer" falsehood. From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 07:23:19 -0500   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 08:31 5/5/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >The only repair the von Beckerath at St. Michael's Episcopal Church in= New > >York City had in more than thirty years was rebushing of the pedalboar= d -- > >something that even electronics need!<snip> > > ...usually moreso than the piped prototype. Rodgers was known for some > lousy pedalboards for awhile back in the analog days, to be certain. > > Almost all the examples thus given are old organs, mostly tracker actio= n, > so I can see the claims of reliability as being valid. However, the EP > organ, as mass produced by M=F8ller and others, hasn't fared nearly as > well. Thus, one is confronted with a choice...the unwieldiness of trac= ker, > or improving electric actions by dumping traditional electropneumatic a= nd > going to improved electromechanical. T   The problem with most old electro-pneumatic organs, whether ventil or pit= man, is that they contain far too much leather. In some cases they have fared better than others. The old purple leather Aeolian was using around 1920= has in some cases lasted as long as 75 or 80 years, but that is an exception,= and I know of Mollers from the 1960's that failed after as few as 20 years, whi= ch is quite unacceptable. If I can be forgiven for blowing our own trompette-en-chamade a little, what we have done for most of our new orga= ns at Quimby's is to adopt the Blackinton-Johnson slider chest with pneumatic pallets. Besides a small square primary for each note, there is only a s= ingle small pneumatic pallet for each note on a channel, with the result that t= he total amount of leather per pipe is only perhaps 1/10 of what it is in a = pitman chest. Using high quality chrome tanned leather we hope that the leather= will have a lifespan of several decades more than we were getting out of the o= ld tan pneumatic leather of the sixties. Furthermore, the table, sliders and toeboards are made of stable materials and designed to be self-compensat= ing, so that the sliders should never need refitting and the table is proof ag= ainst just about anything except roof leaks. While we only have a track record= of around ten years so far with this design of chest, we are confident that = they will prove a lot less expensive to maintain than either traditional pitma= n, ventil or slider chests. These slider chests with electro-pneumatic pall= ets also have the advantage of being faster in operation than either a tradit= ional slider chest with electro-pneumatic pulldowns, or a slider chest with ele= ctric pulldowns -- although they have the advantage of not containing leather,= the latter tend to be rather sluggish in the bass. Furthermore the slider ch= ests with electro-pneumatic pallets have the advantage of the traditional trac= ker over either pitman chests or direct electric action that all the pipework= is on a common channel, and thus the chorus speaks more coherently.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: what's an organist to DO? (grin) From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 07:28:11 -0500   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > Bob Scarborough wrote: > > A question that's never been answered to my satisfaction: how much space = per > rank does a slider chest require as compared to e/m or e/p? Is the space = saved > with slider chests significant? >   In the 1960's when skinny scales were the fashion, slider chests were = considerably more compact than pitman chests, since pouches take up a fair amount opf = space. Today, however, when many stops are of quite substantial scale (at QPO we = are using scale 42 Diapasons in a number of our current instruments and even a scale = 38 for the First Diapason on one large instrument we are building), it is fitting = the pipes onto the chest that is the main factor that determines its size, so = basically any type of chest will occupy the same space.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Rhosymedre... From: "Colin Hulme" <colin_hulme@lineone.net> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 14:00:11 +0100       Bob Scarborough wrote: > > I > pronounced that Anglican national anthem, Hyfrydol, as "HIGH-fry-doll", > until some welsh cleric roundly bopped me for doing so...it's > "HUH-fruh-dahl"! Welsh...go figure! > Known where I sometimes play as "Hydrofoil"   Cheers,   Colin >  
(back) Subject: Re: Rhosymedre... From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 08:52:54 -0500   That's how the BBC used to pronounce it too, in the good old days when there was quite a bit of organ music on the radio.   John Speller   Stan Yoder wrote:   > Well, I once asked an aged Welshman that, and he said: > > ROSS-meh-DRAY. > > If memory serves, the initial R was slightly rolled, and perhaps there > was a tiny bit of the Y (short-I sound) at the end of the "ross".    
(back) Subject: Re: Rhosymedre... From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 21:53:37 +0800   > Bob Scarborough wrote: > pronounced that Anglican national anthem, Hyfrydol, as "HIGH-fry-doll", = until some welsh cleric roundly bopped me for doing so...it's   Anglican? I thought it was Welsh Methodist with the most commonly sung words by Chas. Wesley. Have never heard it sung in an Anglican Church but have played it many thousands of times in a Methodist Church.   Bob Elms.    
(back) Subject: wired EM chests From: <support@opensystemsorgans.com> Date: 6 May 2001 07:09:28 -0700   On Sat, 05 May 2001, Bob Scarborough wrote:   > the beauty of EM over EP/pitman is its > inherent flexibility. An EM chest is an EM chest. It can be wired any = way > you WANT it...unit, duplexed, straight...whatever, all at the relay, if = one > is installed. Try THAT on a pitman outfit!   If you're opting for an EM chest, why not take it a step farther and do = the "wiring" in software? Why should there be any custom hardware beyond = the labels on the stop tabs and the pipes, themselves? Just wire the = console for MIDI.   The console could still be as fancy as you like; you could still use those = fancy tracker-touch wooden keyboards if that's what you want. But = internally, things would get a lot cheaper and even more flexible. And = for the cost of an amplifier and a set of headphones, you'd get a practice = instrument that was silent to everybody except the organist (great for = keeping the fingers warm during those long sermons).   Dick      
(back) Subject: Re: Rhosymedre... From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 09:12:10 -0500   Bob Elms wrote:   > Anglican? I thought it was Welsh Methodist with the most commonly sung > words by Chas. Wesley.   Actually Charles Wesley was an Anglican and the Wesley family still are. = I was at school with one of them, a great-grandson of Samuel Sebastian. You may recall John Wesley's memorable words, "I live and die = a member of the Church of England." The only exception was Samuel Sebastian's father Samuel, who for a while was a Roman Catholic.   John Speller Also an Anglican ...      
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 10:13:37 EDT   In a message dated 5/6/01 10:02:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:   << Have never heard it sung in an Anglican Church but have played it many thousands of times in a Methodist Church. >> I've played it many, many times in Episcopal churches, usually to the = text, "Alleluia, Sing to Jesus." (Haven't checked but I presume it's in the = "new" hymnal. I still cling tenaciously to the 1940.)   DudelK Washington, DC  
(back) Subject: sluggish electric pulldowns From: <support@opensystemsorgans.com> Date: 6 May 2001 07:18:04 -0700   On Sun, 06 May 2001, "John L. Speller" wrote:     > a slider chest with electric > pulldowns -- although they have the advantage of not containing = leather, the > latter tend to be rather sluggish in the bass.   Forgive my ignorance, but why are they sluggish?   Dick      
(back) Subject: Re: Carpeting the choir room... From: "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 21:10:52 -0400   Pete, If you use it for rehersals ( or even warm-ups) than NO !   If you don't sing in there at all - then, Why not ?     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY     On Fri, 4 May 2001 19:19:19 EDT Oboe32@aol.com writes: > Hey All, > A church I know is puting new all-purpose carpeting in and > wanted to > know if they should carpet their little 16 by 20 choir room or leave > it with > linoleum. Anyone have any suggestions? > > -Pete Isherwood > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.  
(back) Subject: Re: Rhosymedre... From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 10:59:23 -0400   I would like a "tanner" for every time I have sung Hyfrydol in my High Anglican church back home in London.   I don't think that this hymn is limited to Welsh Methodists at all!   Bob Conway   At 09:53 PM 5/6/01 +0800, you wrote: > > Bob Scarborough wrote: > > pronounced that Anglican national anthem, Hyfrydol, as > "HIGH-fry-doll", until some welsh cleric roundly bopped me for doing = so...it's > >Anglican? I thought it was Welsh Methodist with the most commonly sung >words by Chas. Wesley. Have never heard it sung in an Anglican Church >but have played it many thousands of times in a Methodist Church. > >Bob Elms. >    
(back) Subject: Organ Recital by David Briggs From: <NAShepherd@aol.com> Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 11:45:49 EDT     --part1_d3.1444ed28.2826cbad_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   St John The Baptist, Keynsham UK -=3D20   We had a super organ recital last night by David Brigs, organist (for = the=3D20 next year anyway) at Gloucester Cathedral. - If you haven't heard David = play=3D =3D20 (or improvise) get hold of one of his recordings! His programme was as = below=3D :   Grand Choeur Dialogue Eugene GIGOUT=3D20   Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C, BWV 564 JS BACH=3D20   Andante in F W A MOZART=3D20   Hungarian March (from =3DE2=3D80=3D98The Damnation of = Faust=3DE2=3D80=3D99), Hector BER=3D LIOZ (arr. DJB)=3D20   Clair de Lune (from =3DE2=3D80=3D98Suite Bergamasque=3DE2=3D80=3D99) = Claude Debussy(arr.=3D Cellier)=3D20   Flight of the Bumble-bee, Nicholas Rimsky-Korsakoff (arr.Nagel)=3D20   Arabesque (24 pieces en style libre) Louis VIERNE=3D20   Toccata (Suite Opus 5) Maurice DURUFLE=3D20   Interval=3D20   Suite Gothique Leon BOELLMAN=3D20   Improvisation: Suite Improvisee Prelude Andante cantabile Scherzo Adagio Variations=3D20   The improvisation was based on themes submitted by the audience.   NEIL SHEPHERD Organist and Director of Music, St John The Baptist, Keynsham Principal, West of England School of Music 6 Priory Road, Keynsham, Bristol BS31 2BX Telephone/Fax 0117 908 2567 Website: www.zyworld.com.stjohnchoir                                                             --part1_d3.1444ed28.2826cbad_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D3D"#ffff80"><FONT = COLOR=3D =3D3D"#800000" SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" = LANG=3D3D"0">St=3D John The Baptist, Keynsham UK -=3D20 <BR> <BR>We had a super organ recital last night by David Brigs, organist (for = th=3D e=3D20 <BR>next year anyway) at Gloucester Cathedral. - If you haven't heard = David=3D20=3D play=3D20 <BR>(or improvise) get hold of one of his recordings! His programme was as = b=3D elow: <BR> <BR>Grand Choeur Dialogue = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=3D bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eugene GIGOUT<I>=3D20 <BR></I> <BR>Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C, BWV 564 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=3D bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= ;=3D &nbsp;JS BACH<I>=3D20 <BR> <BR></I>Andante in F<I> = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=3D p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W A MOZART=3D20 <BR></I> <BR>Hungarian March (from =3DE2=3D80=3D98The Damnation of = Faust=3DE2=3D80=3D99), &nbsp;<=3D I>Hector BERLIOZ (arr. DJB)</I>=3D20 <BR> <BR>Clair de Lune (from =3DE2=3D80=3D98Suite Bergamasque=3DE2=3D80=3D99) = <I>Claude Debus=3D sy(arr. Cellier)</I>=3D20 <BR> <BR>Flight of the Bumble-bee, <I>Nicholas Rimsky-Korsakoff = (arr.Nagel)=3D20 <BR> <BR></I>Arabesque (24 pieces en style libre) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Louis = VIERNE<=3D I>=3D20 <BR></I> <BR>Toccata (Suite Opus 5) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maurice DURUFLE<I>=3D20 <BR> <BR>Interval=3D20 <BR></I> <BR>Suite Gothique &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Leon = BOELLMAN<I>=3D20 <BR></I> <BR>Improvisation: Suite Improvisee <BR>Prelude <BR>Andante cantabile <BR>Scherzo <BR>Adagio <BR>Variations=3D20 <BR> <BR>The improvisation was based on themes submitted by the audience. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#800000" SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" = FACE=3D3D"Comic=3D Sans MS" LANG=3D3D"0"><B>NEIL SHEPHERD</B> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#800000" SIZE=3D3D1 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" = FACE=3D3D"Comic=3D Sans MS" LANG=3D3D"0"><I>Organist and Director of Music, St John The = Baptist,=3D Keynsham <BR>Principal, West of England School of Music</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#800000=3D " SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" = LANG=3D3D"0"></I> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#800000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" = FACE=3D3D"Comic=3D Sans MS" LANG=3D3D"0">6 Priory Road, Keynsham, Bristol BS31 2BX <BR>Telephone/Fax 0117 908 2567 <BR>Website: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<U>www.zyworld.com.stjohnchoir <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></U></FONT></HTML>   --part1_d3.1444ed28.2826cbad_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: sluggish electric pulldowns From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 12:00:28 -0500   support@opensystemsorgans.com wrote:   > On Sun, 06 May 2001, "John L. Speller" wrote: > > > a slider chest with electric > > pulldowns -- although they have the advantage of not containing = leather, the > > latter tend to be rather sluggish in the bass. > > Forgive my ignorance, but why are they sluggish?   They just don't magnetize fast enough to pull open large valves, so you = tend to get rather poor note repetition. Of course if really fast note repetition is = what you want you can't beat a Wurly theatre organ chest. Skinner's pitman chests = are not far behind.   John.    
(back) Subject: Re: sluggish electric pulldowns From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 11:20:22 -0700   At 07:18 5/6/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Forgive my ignorance, but why are they sluggish?<snip>   Past practice has been to NOT use EM for basses, due to this problem. Larger surface area against chest pressure, more energy needed = to break the valve's seal, more current drain, and so on. However, if a = large EM valve, using the "pilot valve" principle were used in basses, chest pressure would actually do most of the work of opening the valve, thus comparing favorably in speed with the best EP actions. In this scenario, the solenoid actually only performs the work of opening a pilot valve, creating both a partial vacuum and opening a path to atmostphere, thus setting up the path for chest pressure to actually do the work.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: what's an organist to DO? (grin) From: <ahremsen40@aol.com> Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 14:39:36 EDT   Desert Bob & All,   I think it might be a good idea to hear a new Wicks before you do anymore tonal bashing. I was, quite frankly, shocked how good they have become. =   Play a new one and see what you think. Best, Allan Remsen  
(back) Subject: Re: sluggish electric pulldowns From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 13:55:36 -0500   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 07:18 5/6/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >Forgive my ignorance, but why are they sluggish?<snip> > > Past practice has been to NOT use EM for basses, due to this > problem. Larger surface area against chest pressure, more energy needed = to > break the valve's seal, more current drain, and so on. However, if a = large > EM valve, using the "pilot valve" principle were used in basses, chest > pressure would actually do most of the work of opening the valve, thus > comparing favorably in speed with the best EP actions. In this = scenario, > the solenoid actually only performs the work of opening a pilot valve, > creating both a partial vacuum and opening a path to atmostphere, thus > setting up the path for chest pressure to actually do the work. >   It is interesting that this is basically the same principle as the relief pallets used on some Victorian trackers to lighten the touch by lessening = the pluck.   John.    
(back) Subject: Easter III - St. Matthew's, Costa Mesa CA (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 12:54:14 -0700   Voluntary - Prelude in F - Dubois Setting - Willan/Scottish Chant/Russian Pascha nostrum Proper - Jubilate Deo - Gregorian & fauxbourdons Anthems Behold A Great Priest - J. Singenberger/Clark The Lord Has Sworn (Thou Art A Priest Forever) - C. Rossini/Clark Hymns He Is Risen - Neander The Strife Is O'er - Victory Jesus Christ Is Risen Today - Easter Hymn Voluntary - Agincourt Hymn - Dunstable   Pulled it off, with 2-2-2-2 ... 3 from the parish choir and 5 hired guns. Everybody else was sick or away. This was SUPPOSED to have been Father Richard's First Mass, so we carried on as if it WAS (grin).   The Allen sounds GREAT with the extra alterable voices ... all it needed was the wooden Clarinet, a Harmonic Flute, and a Phonon (!) Diapason (grin).   GOOD church today!   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Carpeting the choir room... From: "Stephen Barker" <steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:16:19 +0100   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C0D671.CB570460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Nice idea - it wouldn't work for our morning service because the =3D preceeding service doesn't finish until 15 mins before! I did try the =3D same thing before Evensong when I first went to the church but got so =3D many complaints from choristers because "they never had to do this =3D before" Some turned up and moaned - others just didn't turn up so I =3D gave up on that idea after a while.   Steve   ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Cremona502@cs.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 1:51 AM Subject: Re: Carpeting the choir room...     In a message dated 5/5/01 9:13:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,=3D20 steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk writes:=3D20       ... Our vestry space is very small and cramped too - try robing =3D between 30=3D20 and 40 choristers in a 12 foot square room (actually the base of the = =3D tower)=3D20 together will flower arrangers, servers, and lost congregation...     In one parish I served which had only a small robing room, the =3D choristers met=3D20 in the choir stalls 30 minutes before service time. Their folder and = =3D their=3D20 vestments were waiting for them in the stalls. It took less time =3D for me to=3D20 move them than it did for the choristers to crawl over each other to =3D find=3D20 them.=3D20   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com =3D20 with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, = Bohawow!"=3D20 Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi=3D20 Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/=3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C0D671.CB570460 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Nice idea - it wouldn't work for our = =3D morning=3D20 service because the preceeding service doesn't finish until 15 mins=3D20 before!&nbsp; I did try the same thing before Evensong when I first went = =3D to the=3D20 church but got so many complaints from choristers because "they never =3D had to do=3D20 this before"&nbsp;&nbsp; Some turned up and moaned - others just didn't = =3D turn up=3D20 so I gave up on that idea after a while.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Steve</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3DCremona502@cs.com=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Cremona502@cs.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 06, 2001 1:51 = =3D AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Carpeting the =3D choir=3D20 room...</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>In a =3D message dated=3D20 5/5/01 9:13:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR><A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"mailto:steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk">steve@ststephe= =3D nscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk</A>=3D20 writes: <BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=3D20 TYPE=3D3D"CITE">... &nbsp;Our vestry space is very small and cramped too = =3D - try=3D20 robing between 30 <BR>and 40 choristers in a 12 foot square room =3D (actually=3D20 the base of the tower) <BR>together will flower arrangers, servers, =3D and lost=3D20 congregation...</FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#000000 =3D size=3D3D3=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 =3D face=3D3DArial=3D20 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>In one parish I = =3D served which had=3D20 only a small robing room, the choristers met <BR>in the choir stalls =3D 30=3D20 minutes before service time. &nbsp;&nbsp;Their folder and their =3D <BR>vestments=3D20 were waiting for them in the stalls. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It took less =3D time for=3D20 me to <BR>move them than it did for the choristers to crawl over each = =3D other to=3D20 find <BR>them. <BR><BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~=3D20 &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the =3D Beagle's Nest=3D20 ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, =3D Molly,=3D20 and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at=3D20 &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT>=3D20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C0D671.CB570460--