PipeChat Digest #2112 - Tuesday, May 22, 2001
 
Re: Lorenz / more stuff for Matt
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Easy Bach, historical fingerings and other dilemmas.
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Lorenz / more stuff for Matt From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 00:47:36 EDT     --part1_e4.15606d7d.283b4968_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   > Old Ellen Jane knew what she was doing <snip> > All of this reminds me of the comment that Ms. Lorenz made at a party when =   introduced to a "fan." The young woman said, "Ms. Lorenz, I have played =   your music for years." Dear Ellen Jane humbly replied, "Oh, my dear, I =   hope you won't hold that against me." In reading her obituary several years ago, I was amazed at the calibre of training she had undergone. I would have loved to have heard her play the organ.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_e4.15606d7d.283b4968_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Old Ellen Jane = knew what she was doing &lt;snip&gt; <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>All of this reminds me of the comment that Ms. Lorenz made at a party = when <BR>introduced to a "fan." &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The young woman said, "Ms. = Lorenz, I have played <BR>your music for years." &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Dear Ellen Jane humbly = replied, "Oh, my dear, I <BR>hope you won't hold that against me." &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;In reading her = obituary several <BR>years ago, I was amazed at the calibre of training she had undergone. = &nbsp;&nbsp;I <BR>would have loved to have heard her play the organ. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_e4.15606d7d.283b4968_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, historical fingerings and other dilemmas. From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 21:48:09 -0700   At 22:04 5/21/2001 -0400, you wrote: >It should be said though, that I do have an organ teacher, problem is, = he's >more into theatre style stuff and jazz. I want to find somebody to teach = me >classical technique etc.as well as keeping with the theatre stuff (I >really do like theatre organs). <snip>   There's nothing wrong with (and probably a lot to be said FOR) learning both mediums at the same time. Composer/organist Dale Wood supplemented his income from his position at All Saints Lutheran Church in Riverside, = CA by playing a Gulbransen Rialto "K" at the La Paloma Restaurant three nights a week. His theater organ stylings were quite good, and he was indeed popular locally for them. I've found that the two can actually compliment each other quite well.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:40:09 -0700 (PDT)   It may be the sixth edition. Read the preface to see if Miss Crozier discusses the imposition of early fingerings.   --- Robert Hanudel <hanudel@schoollink.net> wrote: > Mr. Williams, > Hi.............was interested in what you > wrote about the Gleason > book. Which edition has those fingerings of > Catherine Crozier? I have > the sixth edition, and, too, am very much a beginner > in studying the > organ.........by myself! > Thanx in advance for your reply! > -Jane Hanudel > > > Even athough you feel that the Leupold and Gleason > book > > are dificult starting points, they are in reality > > excellent methods on which to build a sound organ > > technique. Secondly, you should study piano > > intensively if you really intend to become a > really > > fine organist. You'll wish you had down the road. > It > > makes the difference between a great organist and > one > > with just an average technique. > > > > Don't use the Gleason edition wih Catherine > Crozier's > > early fingerings: They're not relevant to someone > who > > is a beginner or in building a firm techniue that > can > > be used in all periods of repertoire. Miss > Crozier's > > use of those early fingerings and pedalings > reflected > > a trend at the time of publication--and a > dangerous > > and highly limited trend it was, too. > > > > But please study the piano with a good teacher. > It > > will make you the best organist and you will have > a > > facility and sense of control over the instrument > that > > will do you well over the years ahead. > > JW > > > > --- Matt Steinkraus <hat77@operamail.com> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > I don't know if anyone remembers me, but I > posted a > > > couple of months ago about > > > pedaling and things, Anyway, I'm a beginning > organ > > > student and I've run into > > > dilemmas. When I mean beginning, though, I mean > > > beginning. The organ is my > > > first keyboard instrument, I tried to get > through a > > > beginning piano book > > > before I started playing, but about half way > through > > > it I realized how much I > > > disliked the pianoand got an organ instead. So > now > > > I've been playing for > > > about 5 months, and I've worked through a > beginning > > > organ course from the > > > seventies (Out of print). What is frustrating > me is > > > that there is a total > > > lack of intermediate organ music that will > > > facilitate the switch to a > > > classical style . I just finished learning the > Bach > > > prelude in F (little) but > > > it was a heck of a learning curve,from the > beginning > > > books to the little > > > preludes and fugues, even the easiest one.So in > > > everyone's opinion,where > > > should I go next? The little preludes and > fugues > > > are too difficult and I'm > > > also afraid to continue with anything like bach > > > without the proper fingerings. > > > I have the Leupold organ book and the Gleason, > but > > > both are still a little > > > difficult as a starting point, so my question > is, > > > where do I go from here. I > > > really can't go back to the piano (I don't have > one > > > anymore), so any help > > > would be appreciated. > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > > The Fastest Browser on Earth now for FREE!! > > > Download Opera 5 for Windows now! Get it at > > > http://www.opera.com/download/ > > > ------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > > > organs & related topics > > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:41:37 -0700 (PDT)   I believe ot is the sixth or seventh edition. She replaced her husbands fingerings with early fingering. --- AMADPoet@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/21/01 12:06:54 PM Central > Daylight Time, > jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes: > > << Don't use the Gleason edition wih Catherine > Crozier's > early fingerings: They're not relevant to someone > who > is a beginner or in building a firm techniue that > can > be used in all periods of repertoire. >> > > Hey JW- I don't normally use fingerings provided in > any music, but out of > curiosity which edition of Gleason are you referring > to? > > Mandy > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:50:42 -0700 (PDT)   One does not develop an "organ technique" at the piano, but rather a comprehensive technique that can be used on all keyboard instruments. One develops a far greater sense of control and touch from the piano. Also, one just simply becomes a better, richer musician from having learned the piano repertoire and playing chamber music and accompanying the beautiful art song from as well. Isn't that what it's all about--living a rich, musical and well rounded life as a musician? I can hear instantly whether an organist comes from a piano background.   --- "Stephen F. P. Karr" <karr_sf@acadmn.mercer.edu> wrote: > I inject myself in this discussion, knowing full > well that many or most > of you will disagree with me, but I must say my > piece. > > Nearly everyone in posting to this particular > discussion has argued that > developing piano technique (and repertoire) is vital > to developing good > organ technique. If you will, please indulge me. . > . > > How many french horn players do you know who have > been told that they > must develop technique and repertoire on the trumpet > in order to be a > good horn player? How many double bassists are told > to practice their > 'cello, otherwise they'll never be any good? > Saxophone and clarinet, > recorder and tin whistle, etc. > > These pairs of instruments are far more similar to > each other in terms > of specialized techniques to the instrument with > which it was paired > than are the piano and the organ. Yes, they both > have keyboards, but as > we so often remind others, that is where the > similarities *end*. I will > concede that piano practice is very useful in *some* > areas of the > repertoire (I do most of my early practicing for > 19th and 20th century > music on the piano). However, I had (and still do, > from a solo > perspective) a laughably small piano repertoire. My > piano technique and > repertoire have both been developed through > accompanying, which I began > long after organ study. > > I am in no way arguing that I am a great organist; > that is for others to > judge. However, my organ repertoire does contain > quite a few "hard > songs" and in learning them, I have not at all been > impeded by my lack > of piano repertoire (and technique). For me, it is > totally irrelevant. > > Some will choose to develop their organ technique at > the piano. If that > works, fine. If it doesn't work (for any reason, > including that one > wishes not to play the piano), then by all means, > develop organ > technique at the organ! That does make sense, > doesn't it? > > -Stephen Karr > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/