PipeChat Digest #2116 - Wednesday, May 23, 2001
 
RE: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: The Severance Chamber (cross posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by <support@opensystemsorgans.com>
Felix's Conquest of Staten Island
  by "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net>
Re: The Severance Chamber (cross posted)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: The Severance Chamber (cross posted)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Digital Additions To Pipe Organs (x-posted)
  by <Devon3000@aol.com>
Untouched E.M. Skinner For Sale
  by <Devon3000@aol.com>
RE: Untouched E.M. Skinner For Sale
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Digital Additions To Pipe Organs (x-posted)
  by "Stephen Barker" <steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Felix Conquers Staten Island 5/20/01 (xPost)
  by "Ed Brown" <edbroorg@webtv.net>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by <AMADPoet@aol.com>
Re: Felix's Conquest of Staten Island
  by <AMADPoet@aol.com>
Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:01:14 -0500   Peeters's "Sixty Short Pieces" has some gems, too. All readily playable = by less-experienced organists. Peter   -----Original Message----- From: Cremona502@cs.com [mailto:Cremona502@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:27 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas     In a message dated 5/22/01 7:12:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, david_n_carter@hotmail.com writes:         >For kids and really >beginning beginners, I still like Flor Peeters' "Little Organ Book" for = its   >simplicity and ease of use.           Is this Ars Organi??? I used to use this when I was in high school. It =   was quite good, as I recall. I havent' seen it in years, though.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:57:17 +0800   Do you mean "Ars organi"? Bob E.   David Carter wrote: > > I second what DesertBob says about the Peeters - I used it when I was > learning organ.    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:00:05 +0800   I wionder how you can do that? I think I could find a player or two who could fool you! Bob E.     In a message dated 5/22/01 2:51:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes:     I can hear instantly whether an organist comes from a piano background.    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:10:02 +0800   One of my students uses Ars Organi, hence my query in another post. Bob Elms.    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:15:16 -0400   organists don't 'have' to come from a piano background. It's not a MUST. There are lots of great organists in the world who've never studied piano. Sure, it may make studying organ a bit easier, beginning organ studies = isn't necessarily the next logical step after piano studies. The two instruments may have keyboards, but they're not connected. They have very different characters, repertoires, composers, and the techniques are also different. = I mean, think of it this way.....the violin and cello are both stringed instruments. The cello is virtually a large version of the violin, but = would any of you say that an accomplished violinist MUST make the transition to cello, or vice versa? No way.   You can be a great organist without ever having played piano repertoire. I can name you several world famous organists who started on organ. I never took piano............   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: The Severance Chamber (cross posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:32:10 -0700   I was speaking of Cleveland organs (grin) ... Woolsey has TWO 10' Spencers in the basement!   Cheers,   Bud   "Jackson R. Williams II" wrote:   > What about Woolsey Hall? > --- quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: > > > > > > Jeffery Korns wrote: > > > > > I would suggest ear plugs. Even though the organ > > is probably low pressure, > > > sitting for a long time in the chamber while it is > > being played will not do > > > your hearing any good. > > > > > > > An E.M. SKINNER *low* pressure???!!! No WAY, Jose!!! > > That thing has probably > > got a 10' high Spencer cement mixer driving it. > > Severance Hall is the > > quintessential orchestral/symphonic organ, second > > only to the FIVE-manual E.M. > > Skinner languishing in Cleveland's Public Hall. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bud > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > > organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: <support@opensystemsorgans.com> Date: 23 May 2001 09:00:18 -0700   I'm joining the ranks of the dissenters on the question of piano study. = Organ technique is a lot like harpsichord technique, and not much like = piano technique at all. I find harpsichord practice useful, because that = instrument demands really, really precise articulation.   The piano covers that up, and it adds a whole different set of muscle = groups. You don't play the piano with your fingers; you throw your whole = body at the instrument. The differences are more pronounced than the = differences between squash and tennis, which are famously difficult to = alternate.   Dick      
(back) Subject: Felix's Conquest of Staten Island From: "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:15:15 -0400   In a message dated 5/22/01 6:42:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = AMADPoet@aol.com writes:     < ...Why don't you come < play for us, Bruce?       <$$$$$$$$$$ ;-)   <Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com <and all of the dawgs. <BOW! WOW!     ...Too much money, lower it to $$$$$$.   helpfully, Stan  
(back) Subject: Re: The Severance Chamber (cross posted) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:55:31 -0700   At 22:09 5/22/2001 -0700, BuuD-by-the-BeacH wrote: >An E.M. SKINNER *low* pressure???!!! No WAY, Jose!!! That thing has >probably got a 10' high Spencer cement mixer driving it. <snip>   BuuD is quite right. E.M. Skinner was NEVER an adherent to low-pressure techniques, and sought to promote high pressure voicing throughout his career. In Skinner's time, "low pressure" was thought to be completely obsolete, a former necessity dictated by a dearth of wind from water = motors and hand feeders. Skinner's embracing of AC driven axial fans and high pressure voicing is quite obvious in both his writings and in his work. = As we've learned after an excessive "knee-jerking" back to ridiculously low pressures again, high pressure voicing does indeed have its place.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: The Severance Chamber (cross posted) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:59:32 -0700   At 00:04 5/23/2001 -0400, you wrote: >The unique aspect of this concert experience is I have been invited >to attend from behind the facade, in the pipe chamber. <snip>   You're joking, right?   >Frankly, I get shiver chills just thinking about feeling the sound waves. =   ><snip>   Bring ear protection, you'll need it. Also, don't plan on hearing much of =   the orchestra, as the organ would be ridiculously out of proportion, as well as lacking of any expression.   >To view the inner workings of the instrument during the dynamics of >performance will be an awesome experience.<snip>   What's to see, except the flapping of the swell shades and the heaving of regulators now and then??   >I invite you all to share this unique adventure with me. <snip>   PASS!   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:05:29 -0700   At 11:15 5/23/2001 -0400, Carlo Ricci wrote: >I never took piano............<snip>   THAT'S obvious!   Sonny Corleone    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:11:04 -0700   At 09:00 5/23/2001 -0700, you wrote: >I find harpsichord practice useful, because that instrument demands >really, really precise articulation. <snip>   I played an "authentic" harpischord (required by a teacher at the time)...once. I found it somewhat like being forced to listen to = bagpipes....   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:14:10 -0400   it's OBVIOUS I never took piano? Big deal!!!   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Digital Additions To Pipe Organs (x-posted) From: <Devon3000@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:30:41 EDT   There has been interesting discussion on a couple lists I belong to about = adding digital stops to an existing pipe organ. I've noticed that the = "purists" attack with a resounding "no!" based on one hearing of some = existing bad installation. I am going to post soon the specification of = our revised Austin of 80 ranks, which will have 40 new digital voices and = a new console by Allen. It seems to me that the success or failure of the = digital additions depends on the quality of the components and = engineering, as well as the final voicing.   In our case, I have told anyone who voices doubts avout this venture that = at any time in the future, we can purchase pipes to replace the digital = voices. I will be very surprised if that happens, once the results from = Allen are heard. And, at any time, the Austin can sound just like it did = before, but I will wager that not one organist will avoid use of the = digital stops, even if he/she can ever figure out which are which.   I am also appalled that anyone would want to restore a pneumatic console = like E.M. Skinner made and use it for present church use. Just to hear = the "kathunk" that the pistons make is ridiculous, considering the = advantages of modern equipment. The expense and maintenance are just not = good stewardship. We need to make many quick changes during our worship = services. Those that just use a very small amount registrational changes = are doing our profession and the spirit of a lively worship service no = good. And I can't think of much use for single memory combination actions = on any large 2 manual or any three manual and up console.   Remember, the praze-bands and worship babes are waiting outside the door. = We need all the creativity and mechanical aids we can use to survive, in a = lot of cases.   Devon Hollingsworth, in Chicago Suburbia  
(back) Subject: Untouched E.M. Skinner For Sale From: <Devon3000@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:35:29 EDT   A 1920's vintage E.M. Skinner four manuals and about 38 ranks is for sale. = The church is in Chicago, and the organ must go.   Please, only serious inquiries. I have no other details, but will refer = you to the person handling the sale. This instrument is totally = "untouched" and undefiled by any rebuilder or digitoid. Help us find it a = new home.   Devon Hollingsworth, in Chicago Suburb  
(back) Subject: RE: Untouched E.M. Skinner For Sale From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:36:51 -0500   Well, there's this Episcopal church in cambridge, MA, deliberating about a new organ.... :-)   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: Devon3000@aol.com [mailto:Devon3000@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 2:35 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org; piporg-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Untouched E.M. Skinner For Sale     A 1920's vintage E.M. Skinner four manuals and about 38 ranks is for sale. The church is in Chicago, and the organ must go.   Please, only serious inquiries. I have no other details, but will refer = you to the person handling the sale. This instrument is totally "untouched" = and undefiled by any rebuilder or digitoid. Help us find it a new home.   Devon Hollingsworth, in Chicago Suburb   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Additions To Pipe Organs (x-posted) From: "Stephen Barker" <steve@ststephenscanterbury.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:30:39 +0100   Dear list,   I was interested to read the post about adding digital parts to pipe = organs. Have any of you done this already? what was the response? It is something that I have been considering myself recently for several reasons. = Firstly, we don't really have the space for any more pipes... we have 15 ranks of pipes and the case is full. I often find myself wishing for a solo = reed... a 16' Open Diapason on the Pedal (don't have the height for that one either)... a mixture on the Swell... one on the Great too would be nice... = a Celeste on the Swell... the list could go on! The second problem is the positioning of the choir far away from the pipes and not being able to = hear them, without me playing louder, and consequently drowning them out for = the congregation (although the sound is great in the Chancel :-)... I have thought of a seperate 'choir' organ (although, not in the traditional = choir organ sense, more of a sepearte instrument) to accompany the anthems, the psalms and to add to the full organ - it could even be used to give some interesting antiphonal effects - but that is just more for fun really!   So what are your thoughts on this? should I investigate this further? or = is it just a wild fantasy that I should try and forget about? Let me know!   Thanks,   Steve Barker St Stephen's Canterbury UK ----- Original Message ----- From: <Devon3000@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <piporg-L@listserv.albany.edu> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 8:30 PM Subject: Digital Additions To Pipe Organs (x-posted)     > There has been interesting discussion on a couple lists I belong to = about adding digital stops to an existing pipe organ. I've noticed that the "purists" attack with a resounding "no!" based on one hearing of some existing bad installation. I am going to post soon the specification of = our revised Austin of 80 ranks, which will have 40 new digital voices and a = new console by Allen. It seems to me that the success or failure of the = digital additions depends on the quality of the components and engineering, as = well as the final voicing. > > In our case, I have told anyone who voices doubts avout this venture = that at any time in the future, we can purchase pipes to replace the digital voices. I will be very surprised if that happens, once the results from Allen are heard. And, at any time, the Austin can sound just like it did before, but I will wager that not one organist will avoid use of the = digital stops, even if he/she can ever figure out which are which. > > I am also appalled that anyone would want to restore a pneumatic console like E.M. Skinner made and use it for present church use. Just to hear = the "kathunk" that the pistons make is ridiculous, considering the advantages = of modern equipment. The expense and maintenance are just not good stewardship. We need to make many quick changes during our worship services. Those that just use a very small amount registrational changes are doing our profession and the spirit of a lively worship service no = good. And I can't think of much use for single memory combination actions on any large 2 manual or any three manual and up console. > > Remember, the praze-bands and worship babes are waiting outside the = door. We need all the creativity and mechanical aids we can use to survive, in a lot of cases. > > Devon Hollingsworth, in Chicago Suburbia > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Conquers Staten Island 5/20/01 (xPost) From: "Ed Brown" <edbroorg@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:24:21 -0400 (EDT)   Cannot read your blue ink answers, Bruce    
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: <AMADPoet@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:16:59 EDT   In a message dated 5/23/01 11:01:15 AM Central Daylight Time, support@opensystemsorgans.com writes:   << You don't play the piano with your fingers; you throw your whole body = at the instrument. >>   That's one of the main differences I've noticed between the instruments in =   question.   Here's another perspective to the argument: my piano teacher is trying to teach one of her other students to play the organ, and CANNOT get him to = drop some of the PIANO technique and play legato on the organ.   And another: I started on the piano, and from the minute I sat down I was =   unknowingly using an organ technique. My piano teacher just about = strangled me last semester because she CANNOT get me to play like a PIANIST. Since = I'm playing the organ now and getting raves from my organ teacher on how "natural" my technique is, I don't WANT to change anymore, and have given = up the piano for now. It's too frustrating for me to switch back and forth.   Mandy  
(back) Subject: Re: Felix's Conquest of Staten Island From: <AMADPoet@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:18:03 EDT   In a message dated 5/23/01 11:15:41 AM Central Daylight Time, nstarfil@mediaone.net writes:   << ..Too much money, lower it to $$$$$$. helpfully, Stan >>   More like $$. However, the food round these parts is the best in America. = And I know how you men are about food... ;o)   Mandy  
(back) Subject: Re: Easy Bach, Historical Fingering and Other Dilemmas From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:24:09 EDT     --part1_1e.1625ccf0.283da099_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 5/23/01 4:26:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes:     > he > plays it like Glenn Gould! >   Which is good enough for me. I am glad that everyone does not play like that, but I'm sure glad that he does. There have been several players = over the years who used very detached style in their playing; although I can't remember their names, I do remember their playing very well.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_1e.1625ccf0.283da099_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 5/23/01 4:26:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">he <BR>plays it like Glenn Gould! <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Which is good enough for me. &nbsp;&nbsp;I am glad that everyone does = not play like <BR>that, but I'm sure glad that he does. &nbsp;&nbsp;There have been = several players over <BR>the years who used very detached style in their playing; although I = can't <BR>remember their names, I do remember their playing very well. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_1e.1625ccf0.283da099_boundary--