PipeChat Digest #2118 - Thursday, May 24, 2001
 
Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were
  by <Mozart609@aol.com>
Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:04:29 EDT   Dear List:   The argument about playing an organ without a combination action is ludicrous. Tracker organs had no combinations at all, which is true. The liturature was of a terraced dynamic type, and until the early 19th Century swell boxes were not standard equipment either. Even at that, for fast stop changes two assistants were sometimes necessary to accomplish the task.   The nineteenth and twentieth century composers for the organ changed all that forever. Swell boxes were added, Aristide Caville Coll added ventiles for reeds, mixtures etc. by deliberately cutting off available wind to certain stops already drawn. This made the expressive symphonic approach of Franck and others possible. You still needed one or two assistants to help manage registrations.   The Casavants, E.M. Skinner etc. changed that forever too with electric assists and actions and expanding the capability to manage organ registrations with pistons. By the 60's and 70's it was possible for multiple memories for each piston. Now you can have as many memories for pistons as you can afford. This is a good, and wonderful thing.   The Aeolian/Skinner major opus of GDH in Salt Lake City, is a shining example of up grading old pneumatic pistons with a single memory to over 100 memories. What utter nonsense to say that they should be happy with one saved pneumatic memory. Rediculous! Balderdash! Usually people that make these outlandish statements play on electronic organs or small pipe organs with no registrational help or pistons. In my book, if you have the cash, the more memories the better.   Regards,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were From: <Mozart609@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 02:10:31 EDT     --part1_35.158a2326.283dffd7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hot everyone is a Thomas Murray and I am sure that the YALE organ has = plenty of pistons on it...I come from the school where it is believed that one = takes advantage of current tech. of today. Skinner was a person who used in HIS = day the best that there was.   Sorry....I am NOT a purest when it comes to consoles. They are like computers. They need to be friendly in today's world.   Mitch Weisiger   --part1_35.158a2326.283dffd7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#800040" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><B>Hot everyone is a = Thomas Murray and I am sure that the YALE organ has plenty <BR>of pistons on it...I come from the school where it is believed that = one takes <BR>advantage of current tech. of today. Skinner was a person who used in = HIS day <BR>the best that there was. <BR> <BR>Sorry....I am NOT a purest when it comes to consoles. They &nbsp;are = like <BR>computers. They need to be friendly in today's world. <BR> <BR>Mitch Weisiger</B></FONT></HTML>   --part1_35.158a2326.283dffd7_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:50:15 -0700     --------------15A1603A6AB35DC4DEF11F84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Actually, as I recall, the Yale organ has only 8 or 12 generals, not all of which are duplicated by toe studs ... and, of course, there aren't multiple memories.   Skinner brought THAT technology to perfection. The Yale combination action is very fast and very quiet.   Cheers,   Bud   Mozart609@aol.com wrote:   > Hot everyone is a Thomas Murray and I am sure that the YALE organ has > plenty > of pistons on it...I come from the school where it is believed that > one takes > advantage of current tech. of today. Skinner was a person who used in > HIS day > the best that there was. > > Sorry....I am NOT a purest when it comes to consoles. They are like > computers. They need to be friendly in today's world. > > Mitch Weisiger   --------------15A1603A6AB35DC4DEF11F84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Actually, as I recall, the Yale organ has only 8 or 12 generals, not all of which are duplicated by toe studs ... and, of course, there aren't = multiple memories. <p>Skinner brought THAT technology to perfection. The Yale combination action is very fast and very quiet. <p>Cheers, <p>Bud <p>Mozart609@aol.com wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font = color=3D"#800040"><font size=3D+0>Hot everyone is a Thomas Murray and I am sure that the YALE organ has = plenty</font></font></font></b> <br><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font color=3D"#800040"><font = size=3D+0>of pistons on it...I come from the school where it is believed that one = takes</font></font></font></b> <br><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font color=3D"#800040"><font = size=3D+0>advantage of current tech. of today. Skinner was a person who used in HIS = day</font></font></font></b> <br><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font color=3D"#800040"><font = size=3D+0>the best that there was.</font></font></font></b> <p><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font color=3D"#800040"><font = size=3D+0>Sorry....I am NOT a purest when it comes to consoles. They&nbsp; are = like</font></font></font></b> <br><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font color=3D"#800040"><font = size=3D+0>computers. They need to be friendly in today's world.</font></font></font></b> <p><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font color=3D"#800040"><font = size=3D+0>Mitch Weisiger</font></font></font></b></blockquote> </html>   --------------15A1603A6AB35DC4DEF11F84--    
(back) Subject: Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 00:01:54 -0700   OK, Ron, but the limitations defined the registration. That's like the old argument about whether or not Bach would use a Tuba Mirabilis today. Bach is not alive today; he didn't have a Tuba Mirabilis in the period 1685-1750, so we shouldn't use one either when we play his music. For good or for ill, Bach didn't have the SOUND of a Tuba Mirabilis in his head when he wrote his music.   I have played French romantic music on organs with no registration aids other than ventil pedals ... no registration assistants were needed.   Bach Preludes and Fugues require NO registration aids ... you simply set the plena, and throw the coupler and the pedal reed on or off ... real simple. Of course, you have to be playing a GOOD organ in order for that approach to work.   And no, I haven't always presided over a Hammond or an elderly Allen (grin) ... I have presided over large three and four manual organs, both tracker and electric action ... most had a minimum (by today's standards) of registration aids ... didn't bother me ... I grew up playing organs like that. I don't feel a need to load the registration of every piece I play into multiple memories. Besides, I seldom use the same registration twice (grin).   I suppose I'll have all the toys on the new organ at St. Matthew's, simply because they "come with" the multiplex package, and whoever succeeds me will probably expect them to be there. But I don't NEED them, beyond a fair number of generals because of the complexity of our particular service.   Cheers,   Bud   RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Dear List: > > The argument about playing an organ without a combination > action is ludicrous. Tracker organs had no combinations at all, > which is true. The liturature was of a terraced dynamic type, and > until the early 19th Century swell boxes were not standard > equipment either. Even at that, for fast stop changes two > assistants were sometimes necessary to accomplish the task. > > The nineteenth and twentieth century composers for the organ > changed all that forever. Swell boxes were added, Aristide Caville > Coll added ventiles for reeds, mixtures etc. by deliberately cutting > off available wind to certain stops already drawn. This made the > expressive symphonic approach of Franck and others possible. > You still needed one or two assistants to help manage registrations. > > The Casavants, E.M. Skinner etc. changed that forever too with > electric assists and actions and expanding the capability to manage > organ registrations with pistons. By the 60's and 70's it was possible > for multiple memories for each piston. Now you can have as > many memories for pistons as you can afford. This is a good, and > wonderful thing. > > The Aeolian/Skinner major opus of GDH in Salt Lake City, is a > shining example of up grading old pneumatic pistons with a single > memory to over 100 memories. What utter nonsense to say that > they should be happy with one saved pneumatic memory. > Rediculous! Balderdash! Usually people that make these outlandish > statements play on electronic organs or small pipe organs with no > registrational help or pistons. In my book, if you have the cash, > the more memories the better. > > Regards, > > Ron Severin > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Keeping Skinner Combination Actions as they were From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:45:32 +0800   Wait a minute Ron. Let's get these remarks of yours corrected. A man called Jordan built the first English swell box in 1712. However it was found later that he was not the first, as a Spanish builder had built one in an organ in 1703.You said "standard". I know the early English organ might have had a Chaire organ rather than a swell, but I think the invention of the swell box changed that long before the 19th Century. As for your remark that tracker organs had no combinations at all, that is not correct. The first combination pedals in English organs dated from 1660 (shifting movements moving the sliders but not the stop knobs). I have played a number of tracker organs from the 19th Century which had a number of combination pedals. Even the 6 stop 1890 Wm Hill single manual organ in the local Anglican Church has two combination pedals. Ask for your remark that building (organs) without combination systems is ludicrous, I agree absolutely. You said "playing" but the organist cannot determine that. Bob Elms.     RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: > > Dear List: > > The argument about playing an organ without a combination > action is ludicrous. Tracker organs had no combinations at all, > which is true. The liturature was of a terraced dynamic type, and > until the early 19th Century swell boxes were not standard > equipment either. Even at that, for fast stop changes two > assistants were sometimes necessary to accomplish the task. > > The nineteenth and twentieth century composers for the organ > changed all that forever. Swell boxes were added, Aristide Caville > Coll added ventiles for reeds, mixtures etc. by de