PipeChat Digest #2475 - Friday, November 2, 2001
 
Re: The uninitiated and the layman audiences (was: Nigel Potts)
  by <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de>
Re: Effect of swell shutter opening on tonality (cross posted)
  by "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net>
The uninitiated and the layman audiences
  by "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #2474 - 11/02/01
  by "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
Church insurance
  by "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
Battle hymns
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: All Saints' Day in Hades, a tiny town next to Perdition
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: membership in the parish--off topic
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
RE: The uninitiated and the layman audiences
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: Effect of swell shutter opening on tonality
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re: The uninitiated and the layman audiences
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: The uninitiated and the layman audiences (was: Nigel Potts) From: <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 13:19:17 +0100 (MET)   You are absolutely right, if we are talking about Nigel Potts beautiful playing, which I heard already from verious orther sources. This part of Dr. Moyers report is ok, and Nigel Potts deserves it.   My point is the neagtive and absolutelty unacceptable classification of audiences. In other words: standing ovations are fine. But if they come from "Layman audiences", what are they worth? We are worrying about getting organ and organmusic back to the people, and someone writes this. For me it's simply arrogant.   I know, whom Dr. Moyer has in mind personally, when talking about the kind of "big deal 'look at me' player, which is another is another arrogant way, to focus an that topic more than on the beautiful playing of Nigel Potts. And, by the way, how much I try I can'T find any word in his posting, which would be suitable to express his respect before the "unitiated" and the "Laymen".   I personally deeply adore our audiences, and it is worth all the hard work, when a person, who never had any idea or experience of the organ and its music, is moved to tears, rather than a parcticipant, who tells you, that he found your ritardando in measureno. 157 a little bit to much, and your pedal articulation in measure no. 83 interesting. This kind of excitement will not save the organ....   Hans-Friedrich Hell   Myosotis51@aol.com schrieb: > Hell-Concerts@t-online.de wrote: > > > > > Don't you feel, Herr Dr. > > Moyer, that your posting regarding > > the "uninitated" and the "layman audiences" calls for > > an > > explanation before the "uninitiated" and the "layman > > audiences". > > I for my part, as a member of one of these groups, feel > > offended, > > especially within the context of your arrogant and > > disparaging > > formulation about the kind of players, you describe. > > Dear Herr Hell, > > My impression of Dr. Moyer's posting was merely that > Nigel Potts isn't > "showy," but rather has a real and substantive presence, > and made the music > the focus of his concert rather than his personality. I > felt that Dr. Moyer > believed that those of solid musianship would truly enjoy > Mr. Potts' > artistry, and that someone with little musical training > would simply enjoy > beautiful music. > > Correct me if I'm wrong? > > Yours, > Victoria Ceruti >  
(back) Subject: Re: Effect of swell shutter opening on tonality (cross posted) From: "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:16:37 -0500   Yes, I'm sure that the effect you hear is real - and, as you imply, it is = a desirable effect. High audio frequencies are absorbed more readily as = they bounce around in a partially closed box. Ed, in Maine   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> To: <SecondTouch@yahoogroups.com>; "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 2:35 AM Subject: Effect of swell shutter opening on tonality (cross posted)     > Is anyone aware of any research, or in lieu of that informed opinion = will > do, of the effect of swell shutter opening on the tonality of the = enclosed > pipe sounds ? My ears tell me that, as the shutters close, the upper > freqencies are attenuated more than the lower or conversely, as they open, > the sound becomes more brilliant. The effect is very evident in the opening > sfzorzando on the recent and excellent Russell Holmes/Solihull Compton = CD.      
(back) Subject: The uninitiated and the layman audiences From: "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:47:48 -0500       On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 01:48:08 EST Myosotis51@aol.com writes: > Dear Herr Hell, > > My impression of Dr. Moyer's posting was merely that Nigel Potts > isn't "showy," but rather has a real and substantive presence, and made > the music the focus of his concert rather than his personality. I felt that > Dr. Moyer believed that those of solid musianship would truly enjoy Mr. Potts' > artistry, and that someone with little musical training would simply > enjoy beautiful music.   I can see your point, but I also see Hans'. I felt that Dr. Moyer's unfortunate choice of words left me somewhat insulted as well. Since I am not an organist, I took his comments to mean that I wouldn't have enough musical sense to appreciate it.   I may not be an organist, but I have been to far too many "dry, academic" recitals that frankly, bored me to death. (And people wonder why the organ fails to get attendance at recitals and concerts???) The future of the performance organ has got to be to reach out to the "laymen and uninitiated" or there simply won't be enough "professional" people left in the country to HAVE a recital for !   Perhaps this "academic" style performance is better suited for an AGO convention, but from reading the reviews on this list from such AGO gatherings, it seems that, even there, the more "exciting" performances were the ones that receive the best reviews.   With organ student enrollments "falling off a cliff", don't you think that something, somehow, somewhere MUST be done to get this music OUT to the masses ?   I do, and I think that the Felix Hell's and Ken Cowan's of the organ world are the ones to do it. Thirty years ago this very same issue was at hand- each side championed by a prominent organist. The FOX - BIGGS debate waged rampant for years, gradually becoming more and more devisive. I can only tell you that I know of countless persons that have organ music in their record (CD) libraries BECAUSE of Virgil Fox. In just the few short years that Virgil did the "Heavy Organ" series, he singlehandedly developed a whole new population of organ affectionatos. I would even venture to propose that those people - who are now "middle-aged" are some of the people that are fueling the rebuilding and new instruments that we are seeing today.   The AGO is telling us that there will be a SEVERE organist shortage in the next 10 years, and the LAST thing the organ community should be doing is criticizing those who DO appeal to the wider population.       Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #2474 - 11/02/01 From: "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:16:04 -0400   Here is a very important Article about the Church that burned. In the = article it says "The church, which is insured, is assessed at $450,900. = But officials estimate it could cost $5 million to rebuild."   http://canada.com/halifax/dailynews/story.asp?id=3D{D61E04AD-5588-4206-8BEA= -9F8CEC421849}    
(back) Subject: Church insurance From: "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:16:17 -0400   Here is a very important Article about the Church that burned. In the = article it says "The church, which is insured, is assessed at $450,900. = But officials estimate it could cost $5 million to rebuild."   http://canada.com/halifax/dailynews/story.asp?id=3D{D61E04AD-5588-4206-8BEA= -9F8CEC421849}    
(back) Subject: Battle hymns From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:01:51 -0500   >>> I served a church where the pastor wouldn't let anyone sing "Battle = Hymn of >> the Republic" at any Patriotic because the composer was a Unitarian.   >Presumably he wouldn't let you sing "Nearer, my God, to thee",   Maybe it wasn't a he, and/or the Unitarian connexion was just an excuse.   I used to know a priestess who disparaged this hymn in terms like "if we *must* sing this yankee war whoop..."   It is part of the progressive emasculation of the church (see _The Church Impotent_, by Leon Podles) that not only this hymn specifically, but all hymns using military imagery, are shunned by the politically correct leadership. I recall the rector of my youth encouraging us choristers to process down the aisle like soldiers, not like refugees, and describing = the Pre-Lenten season as the time of the church year that concentrated on developing us as Christian soldiers. That season has completely = disappeared from the calendar!   And then they wonder (or some do) why churches in America, as they have = long been in Europe, are turning into women's clubs with nary a male to be = found inside, especially during the week.   Freemasonry is undergoing a revival, and looking better all the time. = They have organists, too.   Paul Emmons    
(back) Subject: Re: All Saints' Day in Hades, a tiny town next to Perdition From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:34:34 EST     --part1_53.dc22281.2914251a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   It sure sounds serious. Good luck with it. Just remember to smile at = the jury and wink at the one's paying attention!! ;-)   Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi     --part1_53.dc22281.2914251a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>It sure sounds serious. = &nbsp;Good luck with it. &nbsp;&nbsp;Just remember to smile at the jury = and wink at the one's paying attention!! &nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_53.dc22281.2914251a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: membership in the parish--off topic From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:37:30 EST     --part1_f6.11abf102.291425ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/2/01 12:18:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, markkoontz@yahoo.com writes:     > Otherwise, I'm not sure that it makes much difference if you are = actually a > member of the church or not. I've seen it be pleasant either way. And = if > they > won't serve you communion, BYOB&W. Offer yours to everybody else. Or = ask, > "If > Jesus was willing to serve Judas, why aren't you willing to serve me?" >   Good post, Mark..... and welcome.   What a funny image of an alternative communion station over next to the console for the disenfranchised.   Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi     --part1_f6.11abf102.291425ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 11/2/01 12:18:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, markkoontz@yahoo.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Otherwise, I'm not = sure that it makes much difference if you are actually a <BR>member of the church or not. &nbsp;I've seen it be pleasant either = way. &nbsp;And if they <BR>won't serve you communion, BYOB&amp;W. &nbsp;Offer yours to everybody = else. &nbsp;Or ask, "If <BR>Jesus was willing to serve Judas, why aren't you willing to serve me?" <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Good post, Mark..... and welcome. <BR> <BR>What a funny image of an alternative communion station over next to = the console for the disenfranchised. <BR> <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_f6.11abf102.291425ca_boundary--  
(back) Subject: RE: The uninitiated and the layman audiences From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:36:54 -0500   Perhaps something unfortunate happened or was said behind the scenes that = we don't know about. But from simply reading Mr. Moyer's review, Hans is inferring things in it that weren't there. There are "look at me" organists, but I don't think that Felix is one, either in his bearing or = in his playing. I have been impressed with the smoothness and suppleness of his technique ever since I first observed him aged 13. "Technique =3D the elimination of wasted motion" my teacher used to say.   > Organ music, or any endeavor, would have little to offer if its > attractions are entirely accessible and on the surface. In fact, it is > deep enough that we can speak of "acquired tastes." We each, = presumably, > have music that will move us to tears today. If we grow, additional = music > will move us to tears ten years from now. This is largely a matter of > cultural experience and individual background. > > Frescobaldi (whom I know Hans admires) is reported to have moved crowds = to > tears by the thousands in Rome during his lifetime. I doubt that he = would > move them to tears by the thousands today, even if he and the = instruments > he played came back from the dead. Yet it is certainly not = inconceivable > that one could *acquire the taste* for Frescobaldi, such that he would > move one that greatly again. When Tagliavini plays Frescobaldi, he can > come close to that for me. But Tagliavini, like Nigel Potts, probably > would not "bring down the house" of a lay audience, especially with that > repertoire. > > Surely there is room for such an observation without insulting anyone. > > Paul >  
(back) Subject: Re: Effect of swell shutter opening on tonality From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:39:09 EST   Bruce Miles writes:   >Is anyone aware of any research, or in lieu of that informed opinion will >do, of the effect of swell shutter opening on the tonality of the = enclosed >pipe sounds ? My ears tell me that, as the shutters close, the upper >freqencies are attenuated more than the lower or conversely, as they = open, >the sound becomes more brilliant. <<   Your ears are not deceiving you. Bruce. The physics of why this occurs = would take pages and really doesn't belong on pipechat. The fact that we hear = it sustains its actual happening and our ears recognize that the sound = becomes much, much brighter before it becomes louder as the shades are opened from =   fully closed, and conversely the high frequencies are the last of the spectrum to be diminished.   Your analogy of a volume control on EORG's is also right on. Upper end = EORG builders emulated this effect to a degree by adding capacitance on the = swell shoe. When the shoe was slightly depressed, the attenuated high = frequencies were returned to the sound field before any noticeable decibel increase = was heard. It gave a more realistic pipe organ approach of swell boxes = through speaker cabinets. This is not at all difficult to do on a physical organ = but I must defer to your expertise in the virtual computer organ. My = electronics skills outstrip my programming skills, and my advancing age is causing = both to wane increasingly.   Allow me to congratulate you on your creation of the computer organ. I = was very impressed with your progress and intend to someday incorporate some = of the voices in my old Artisan. Alas, a computer crash wiped out most of = what I downloaded but I did manage to salvage your site address and can = retrieve them from your web site. If you can add this phenomenon to your sound font spectrum, it will add = even more realism to the final product. Good luck with the project.   Very best wishes, Jim Pitts    
(back) Subject: Re: The uninitiated and the layman audiences From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:46:28 -0500   (That came out looking as though 1/3 were mine and the rest was regurgitation. I don't know how/why this happened in the editing process. Thanks, Bill Gates! Please let me try again. The post should look like this:)   ------------------------------------------------------   Perhaps something unfortunate happened or was said behind the scenes that = we don't know about. But from simply reading Mr. Moyer's review, Hans is inferring things in it that weren't there. There are "look at me" organists, but I don't think that Felix is one, either in his bearing or = in his playing. I have been impressed with the smoothness and suppleness of his technique ever since I first observed him aged 13. "Technique =3D the elimination of wasted motion" my teacher used to say.   Organ music, or any endeavor, would have little to offer if its = attractions are entirely accessible and on the surface. In fact, it is deep enough = that we can speak of "acquired tastes." We each, presumably, have music that will move us to tears today. If we grow, additional music will move us to tears ten years from now. This is largely a matter of cultural experience and individual background. Frescobaldi (whom I know Hans admires) is reported to have moved crowds to tears by the thousands in Rome during his lifetime. I doubt that he would move them to tears by the thousands today, even if he and the instruments = he played came back from the dead. Yet it is certainly not inconceivable = that one could *acquire the taste* for Frescobaldi, such that he would move one that greatly again. When Tagliavini plays Frescobaldi, he can come close = to that for me. But Tagliavini, like Nigel Potts, probably would not "bring down the house" of a lay audience, especially with that repertoire.   Surely there is room for such an observation without insulting anyone.   Paul