PipeChat Digest #2452 - Thursday, October 25, 2001
 
Re: Piston dependency
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@home.com>
Re: Piston dependency
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Recent concerts in DFW
  by <Bobmac36@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #2451 - 10/24/01
  by "Ken Earl" <ken_earl01@hotmail.com>
Re: Piston dispondency and crescendo ascendency!
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
RE: Piston dependency
  by "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net>
Re: Hammond card for Allen
  by "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net>
Re: The Crescendo Crutch
  by "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net>
Re: Hammond card for Allen
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
crescendo/tutti
  by "Harry E. Martenas" <harrym@epix.net>
reed organ actions
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Organist Position Available
  by "Robert Hanudel" <hanudel@schoollink.net>
RE: Piston dependency
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
Re: Organist Position Available
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
RE: crescendo/tutti
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
Re: Piston dependency
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
Re: Recent concerts in DFW
  by "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com>
piston dependence
  by "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
Re: piston dependence
  by <OrganNYC@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Piston dependency From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@home.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 17:01:53 -0500   I remember vividly my very first organ lesson. It was at All Saints' = Church in Winnipeg in 1959, one week after the installation (finishing actually) = of their brand new Casavant. My teacher had spec'd the organ and supervised = its installation and he was eager to tell me everything about the magnificent beast. After he had gone through his entire "presentation", he pointed to the Crescendo Pedal and told me that I was never, ever, to use it. It was, he indicated, a damnable device that had no place in serious music. In my naivety I asked him why we had one at all (thinking to myself that HE had had control over the instrument's design). He muttered crossly that you always got one whether you wanted it or not, nothing you could do about = it! Except NEVER EVER USE IT!   I've often wondered and never have had it satisfactorily explained - why = do most organists abhor the Crescendo pedal and at the same time why is the Crescendo pedal so commonly installed on instruments spec'd by... = Organists?   Still wondering, Russ Greene   ---------   On 10/24/01 11:40 AM, Emmons, Paul wrote:   > I just think it's funny how the crescendo > pedal (for all that it is a tempting crutch) was totally banned by some > people who professed to teach and insist on total stylistic correctness. > This would exclude a whole major school of composition.    
(back) Subject: Re: Piston dependency From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:22:42 EDT   Dear Russ:   Crescendo pedals have a use, they are not a suprfluous ornament with which to tempt the young. Use it once in a while, but don't tell a soul. :) No one will ever know or suspect you are a crescendo- phile! :) Hehehehehehe!   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Recent concerts in DFW From: <Bobmac36@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:04:47 EDT   Dallas/Fort Worth  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #2451 - 10/24/01 From: "Ken Earl" <ken_earl01@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:29:38 -0700   I've lurked long enuff on this thread!!   Robert wrote>> Both were .....aware ... that by the middle of the last century many organists had come to rely too much on the crescendo ......... producing a very ugly sound,......... << and >>I .. have good "habits" of making use of all the tools available including toe studs and the tutti button.<<   The 'Tutti' "button" is usually programmed on a pipe organ to equal the = last stage of the crescendo pedal. On pipe organs, the crescendo is (usually) fitted with a 'soft stops off' device, so that the louder combinations are pure diapason chorii (with reeds where applicable).   Is this an 'ugly' sound I ask??   Ken      
(back) Subject: Re: Piston dispondency and crescendo ascendency! From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 17:47:40 -0700   Nah! They were sticker, Ron. The rods PUSHED. Trackers PULL. Bob Elms.   RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Even Estey reed organs had a Grande orgue pedal to bring all the stops > on. I believe those organs were tracker action weren't they?    
(back) Subject: RE: Piston dependency From: "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 17:59:39 -0700   >Ugh!!! Goodness. THE CRESCENDO PEDAL ADDICTION. >SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!!!   >I'd rather die. My teachers instilled in me N-E-V-E-R - N-E-V-E-R use the >crescendo pedal. NEVER   I must'a had the same teachers -- made me wonder why the doggone thing was there. But in my old age (when we are supposedly becoming wiser) I find _judicious_ use of the crecendo pedal can be done artistically.   Of course, on many of the newer organs, the crescendo is programmable from the console just like the pistons, so it can be even more useful.   Dennis    
(back) Subject: Re: Hammond card for Allen From: "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:04:49 -0700   Thanks for the information. I am really interested in the card. Do you know where they can be ordered? Lee   Depending on the series of your organ, as certain organs had somewhat different cards available. I have a list for MDS 15, 25, 35, and 38 = organs and ADC-1100,2100, and 3100. Closest it shows is Tibia clausa A & B or Flute Chorus A (8-4-2-1).   There may be an aftermarket source for those cards, though. I remember seeing an Allen Theatre Organ with a stack of cards 3" thick, many of them on that buff-colored card stock that was common for punch cards.   D      
(back) Subject: Re: The Crescendo Crutch From: "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:31:37 -0500   Yesterday I would jump in and say that I rely heavily on my crescendo pedal and couldn't live without one, and those that feel it should NEVER = be used are wrong, but I heard something today that, while not changing my opinion about the pedal, changed what I'm about to say. This afternoon I was assisting a new organist in getting familiar = with her new all-digital Wicks-Walker organ. She was not what most of us would call a "trained" organist, and she told me she plays mainly by ear. After familiarizing her with her new combination action, transposer, and other such toys, I let her play while I cleaned up. In her playing I heard what one could definitely call Crescendo Pedal Dependency. I should state that it most likely arose out of an unfamiliarity with the stops and registration, but what I heard was using the crescendo pedal to follow melodic lines, to add crescendi and decrescendi to moving lines. I was worried for a second that she might be "pumping" the organ to get the = sound out. For the time being, I'm going to chalk it up to her just getting to know the new organ, and hope that she'll move to the other shoes in the future! So I would say that I rarely if ever use the crescendo pedal in most literature, find it a handy tool in service playing, but most certainly = are not a dependent! Brent Johnson The Organ Web Ring http://www.geocities.com/organwebring The Organ Classifieds http://www.organclassifieds.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:58 PM Subject: The Crescendo Crutch     > I can't imagine playing my service WITHOUT a crescendo pedal ... how = else can > you build up and die away during verses of hymns (grin)? > > The problem with MOST crescendo pedals (alleviated somewhat, I suppose = by > modern programmable ones) is that they aren't set properly. IF mine can = be set, > it always runs: > > all unison couplers ON > softest Choir 8 > softest Swell 8 > softest Great 8 > > and so forth, all the way up to full organ WITHOUT the mixtures and the party > horn (grin). I find that most useful for accompanying. > > It's also very useful for those occasions when the PISTONS decide to = fail > mid-service. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > > "COLASACCO, ROBERT" wrote: > > > Ugh!!! Goodness. THE CRESCENDO PEDAL ADDICTION. > > SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!!! > > > > I'd rather die. My teachers instilled in me N-E-V-E-R - N-E-V-E-R use the > > crescendo pedal. NEVER. Then proceeded to okay it for the opening of > > Franck's III chorale and the finale of Suite Breve Dialogue sur le mixture. > > But NEVER, N-E-V-E-R elsewhere. NEVER. This, mon ami, is much worse = than > > Piston dependency. You can loose your organist friends for this. > > Robert Colasacco > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Hammond card for Allen From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:06:36 -0700   The list IS different for the 300 series ... no 16' stops or celestes = (except for a later model in the series), among other things, and no 4' strings, = as I recall.   I'm not aware of an aftermarket source ... the cards I got for our 300-C = are color-coded plastic, and they came from Allen directly.   Cheers,   Bud   Dennis Goward wrote:   > Thanks for the information. I am really interested in the card. Do you > know > where they can be ordered? Lee > > Depending on the series of your organ, as certain organs had somewhat > different cards available. I have a list for MDS 15, 25, 35, and 38 = organs > and ADC-1100,2100, and 3100. Closest it shows is Tibia clausa A & B or > Flute Chorus A (8-4-2-1). > > There may be an aftermarket source for those cards, though. I remember > seeing an Allen Theatre Organ with a stack of cards 3" thick, many of = them > on that buff-colored card stock that was common for punch cards. > > D > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: crescendo/tutti From: "Harry E. Martenas" <harrym@epix.net> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:08:21 -0400   Ken Earl said:   > The 'Tutti' "button" is usually programmed on a pipe organ to equal the last > stage of the crescendo pedal.   Really? On most organs I've played, the crescendo pedal stops short of = full organ w/all couplers. So the tutti is reserved for that last all-out fortissimo.   > On pipe organs, the crescendo is (usually) > fitted with a 'soft stops off' device, so that the louder combinations = are > pure diapason chorii (with reeds where applicable).   Huh. Have never seen this - but sounds useful. (Although maybe not as = useful as multiple stored crescendo settings...)   /Harry    
(back) Subject: reed organ actions From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:09:55 -0700   Depends, Bob ... there are late model reed organs in the US ... I think Estey made one or two ... I KNOW Vocalion did ... with the reed boxes elevated in the organ-case, rather than directly under the keyboard(s), = and a very normal tracker action with stickers, squares, roller-boards, etc. = ... and they FELT like playing a small tracker pipe organ.   Earlier two-manual reed organs (and virtually all one-manual ones) DID = have direct plunger rods under the keys.   Cheers,   Bud   Bob Elms wrote:   > Nah! They were sticker, Ron. The rods PUSHED. Trackers PULL. > Bob Elms. > > RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: > > > Even Estey reed organs had a Grande orgue pedal to bring all the stops > > on. I believe those organs were tracker action weren't they? > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Organist Position Available From: "Robert Hanudel" <hanudel@schoollink.net> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:27:29 -0400   Full-Time Organist/Minister of Music Position Available at St. John the Baptist Catholic Church in Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina. A town of around 15,000, Roanoke Rapids is located 10 miles from the Virginia state line, close to beautiful Lake Gaston Resort Area, a retirement/recreation area second to none. Anyone interested, please e-mail me privately, and I will put you in touch with Fr. Mark Betti. -Jane Hanudel hanudel@schoollink.net  
(back) Subject: RE: Piston dependency From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:20:49 -0500   RUSS ASKED:   why do most organists abhor the Crescendo pedal and at the same time why = is the Crescendo pedal so commonly installed on instruments spec'd by... = Organists?   I REPLY:   I don't know that most organists abhor it, but I'd say that it doesn't get used much by most. For one thing, if it's not spec'd correctly, (as a previous instrument I had WASN'T, IMHO) then it can be more troublesome = than helpful. I can only think of a couple of pieces I've ever NEEDED it for. Paul Manz has a piece called "Aria", and the GT calls for a crescendo...there's only one way to do it, because your hands are busy, unless you have an assistant. I use it mostly to punch up full to mixture at the end of a piece once in a great while, or if I want the 16' Holzposaune (last stop on the Cresc.), but can't get my hands over to pull the knob.   I can't imagine why an organist having say in the design couldn't leave = the pedal out. To say it's automatic is bull...it's an extra...an un-needed, albeit once in a while helpful...extra. I would think a pipe organ can function perfectly without one.   My tupence.   Jeff    
(back) Subject: Re: Organist Position Available From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:14:55 EDT   What about the organ, the job requirements, the salary, etc. . . . . not = that I'm interested in leaving Washington.   DudelK Washington, DC  
(back) Subject: RE: crescendo/tutti From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:26:07 -0500   Ken Earl said:   > The 'Tutti' "button" is usually programmed on a pipe organ to equal the last > stage of the crescendo pedal.     On my previous position, the original Kilgen console had it set up where Full Organ meant the Crescendo was all the way open. There was no Tutti button. I changed that on the new console in 1998. I also find that the Crescendo pulls everything on...flutes to principals to mixtures = (preferably for me..NO REEDS). Whereas, the Tutti (or Full Organ, or Sfzorzando) = button draws only Principal Chorus + Mixtures + Reeds. The current church I play for has it set up this way, although the 16' Holzposaune is the last position on the Crescendo pedal. I don't mind that. I'm just glad the Trompete 8 and Gross Dulzian 8 are not on there. Also, no subcouplers on either. (We only have one: Chor to Great 16)   Now, I DID have one thing changed IMMEDIATELY: and that was to remove the Terz 1-3/5 from both items. That only belongs on Solo registrations, = IMHO.   Jeff    
(back) Subject: Re: Piston dependency From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:23:58 -0400   Friends:   Having grown up playing a Robert Morton 2/4 Theater Organ at a Catholic church [since abandoned and rescued, refinished and totally restored with a loving owner now] without a piston in sight, the Crescendo Pedal came in very handy. With the advent of piston-mania, and having studied with George Markey who was a master of the art of piston registration, I abandoned the use of the Crescendo and hopped onto the piston bandwagon. A recent Rodgers console design has dual expression pedals, no crescendo, possibly a sign of things to come. This particular instrument does however permit configuring the instrument for use with an exposed Great division of pipes [or digital for practice in preparation for performing on an exposed Great instrument], assigning the Swell to the Left Expression Pedal...and the right becomes a Crescendo. So it's not completely gone.   noel jones, aago gedeckt@usit.net   www.frogmusic.com Rodgers Organ Users Group  
(back) Subject: Re: Recent concerts in DFW From: "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:48:16 -0700   Roy Redman wrote:   > Tues Nov. 6 Dr. Thomas Brown on our organ at TWU 8:00 free   Hi Roy,   Around 1962, I took some classes at TWU. At the time there was a Hilgreen-Lane organ in the auditorium. Is it still there or has it been enlarged or replaced?   Thanks,   Blaine Ricketts  
(back) Subject: piston dependence From: "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:25:20 -0500   Hi List, I am giving an organ recital this coming Sunday on a 1922 Henry Pilcher Son's organ that has been rebuilt by Howell Pipe Organs. There is absolutely no console assistance what so ever. I do have a console assistant however and we do quite well with out pistons etc. Would it be a nice feature to have all of the pistons etc.? Yes, but I am making do with what is there. The music seems to "breathe" too in places that the registrations are changed. Rests are a great place to do this and goes with the music. See you all later. Gary    
(back) Subject: Re: piston dependence From: <OrganNYC@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 02:27:15 EDT     --part1_119.69b4670.29090ac3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Pistons, like sequencers and crescendo pedals and CATV monitors, are = devices which can make our job of making music easier. They can also get in the = way. Many of us are of a "certain age" where we remember having only 6-8 generals, or none at all (for many EM Skinners). And how many of us, = having had jobs with Hammonds, figured out how to rewire the "preset" = reverse-color keys for our own (better) version of generals?   I spent 5 long years on an awful 1923 3-manual Moller where the pistons barely worked, depending, I think, on the humidity. I learned to register =   everything quickly by hand. The new organ, a 2-manual tracker, had a mechanical combination pedal (semi-settable within the case for degrees of =   plenum) for each division; otherwise, I registered by hand 99% of the time =   and got along just fine. Now, I play a huge 5-manual organ with all the pistons and gadgets one could want and 256 levels of memory. I love the sequencer and use it frequently, but for service playing, I most usually add/subtract stops or couplers by hand. I keep one memory level for = general service playing, with Generals 1-12 going from ppp to fff in the "American =   Classic" sound; 13-18 take over from Piston 7 for the "English Cathedral" growl, and 19-24 are extras for whatever I need for that service. Another =   memory level is used exclusively for anthems and organ voluntaries each = week. Still, I find that, with all the gadgets at my disposal, I rely MOST = heavily on the Swell pistons, divisional nameplates which act as Cancels, and registering by hand. For me, it's the best and surest way to keep in = touch with a large instrument. Nothing beats knowing EXACTLY where that coupler = or specific drawknob is located, and being able to find it in a nano-second.   Interestingly enough, when this string on pistons began, I was learning Sowerby's "Land of Rest" from his Communion Settings. I had always wanted = to learn this piece, but never had the appropriate organ for that repertoire. = Great piece -- a keeper! I was amazed at how many registration changes = were required, and wondered if he was able to do it alone, or whether he needed = an assistant. (The call for a "Celesta" on one variation makes me think = these pieces were written while he was involved at Washington Cathedral -- and = not at St. James' in Chicago.) I was able to register the piece with "only" = 12 generals (using the sequencer's "Next" toe stud), but still needed a page turner to manage the 8 pages. With a sequencer, of course, one doesn't = need to use manual pistons or reversibles so much; instead a general piston is used. Still, I needed to manually change pedal and manual couplers here = and there; although I have pistons and toe studs for these couplers, they are never where one can reach them while playing Sowerby. In short, this was = one of those pieces where one really couldn't do things on the fly without pistons and a good selection of reversibles.   As for crescendo pedals, the organ I now play has 4 levels for the CP. = Three of them are programable. Our "default" setting is ok, but I would never = use it; instead, I have set Level C to be an "orchestral" crescendo pedal (no mixtures, some use of 4' couplers), and use it now and then when = appropriate for anthems and solos. A few weeks ago, we had a big service where a parishioner, who is a Met Opera singer, sang a movement from the Brahms Requiem with the choir and, later, the Malotte "Lord's Prayer." For the latter, I used the Orchestral Crescendo Pedal for the big buildup to great =   effect. It did everything that pushing successful general and manual = pistons would have done, but quicker and easier. Why not?!   Steve   --part1_119.69b4670.29090ac3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#030025" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Verdana" LANG=3D"0">Pistons, like sequencers and = crescendo pedals and CATV monitors, are devices which can make our job of = making music easier. &nbsp;They can also get in the way. &nbsp;Many of us = are of a "certain age" where we remember having only 6-8 generals, or none = at all (for many EM Skinners). &nbsp;And how many of us, having had jobs = with Hammonds, figured out how to rewire the "preset" reverse-color keys = for our own (better) version of generals? <BR> <BR>I spent 5 long years on an awful 1923 3-manual Moller where the = pistons barely worked, depending, I think, on the humidity. &nbsp;I = learned to register everything quickly by hand. &nbsp;The new organ, a = 2-manual tracker, had a mechanical combination pedal (semi-settable within = the case for degrees of plenum) for each division; otherwise, I registered = by hand 99% of the time and got along just fine. &nbsp;Now, I play a huge = 5-manual organ with all the pistons and gadgets one could want and 256 = levels of memory. &nbsp;I love the sequencer and use it frequently, but = for service playing, I most usually add/subtract stops or couplers by = hand. &nbsp;I keep one memory level for general service playing, with = Generals 1-12 going from ppp to fff in the "American Classic" sound; 13-18 = take over from Piston 7 for the "English Cathedral" growl, and 19-24 are = extras for whatever I need for that service. &nbsp;Another memory level is = used exclusively for anthems and organ voluntaries each week. & <BR> <BR>Interestingly enough, when this string on pistons began, I was = learning Sowerby's "Land of Rest" from his Communion Settings. &nbsp;I had = always wanted to learn this piece, but never had the appropriate organ for = that repertoire. &nbsp;Great piece -- a keeper! &nbsp;I was amazed at how = many registration changes were required, and wondered if he was able to do = it alone, or whether he needed an assistant. &nbsp;(The call for a = "Celesta" on one variation makes me think these pieces were written while = he was involved at Washington Cathedral -- and not at St. James' in = Chicago.) &nbsp;I was able to register the piece with "only" 12 generals = (using the sequencer's "Next" toe stud), but still needed a page turner to = manage the 8 pages. &nbsp;With a sequencer, of course, one doesn't need to = use manual pistons or reversibles so much; instead a general piston is = used. &nbsp;Still, I needed to manually change pedal and manual couplers = here and there; although I have pistons and toe studs for <BR> <BR>As for crescendo pedals, the organ I now play has 4 levels for the CP. = &nbsp;Three of them are programable. &nbsp;Our "default" setting is ok, = but I would never use it; instead, I have set Level C to be an = "orchestral" crescendo pedal (no mixtures, some use of 4' couplers), and = use it now and then when appropriate for anthems and solos. &nbsp;A few = weeks ago, we had a big service where a parishioner, who is a Met Opera = singer, sang a movement from the Brahms Requiem with the choir and, later, = the Malotte "Lord's Prayer." &nbsp;For the latter, I used the Orchestral = Crescendo Pedal for the big buildup to great effect. &nbsp;It did = everything that pushing successful general and manual pistons would have = done, but quicker and easier. Why not?! <BR> <BR>Steve</FONT></HTML>   --part1_119.69b4670.29090ac3_boundary--