PipeChat Digest #2468 - Tuesday, October 30, 2001
 
Re[4]: Membership in the parish
  by "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au>
Re: Membership in the parish
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
membership in the parish--off topic, sort of long
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Used consoles free
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
crossing denominational lines
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Halloween Organ
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re: crossing denominational lines
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: New Console Arrives
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Used consoles free
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
RE: Membership in the parish
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re[4]: Membership in the parish From: "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:45:13 +1100     Ross> I'd say the same thing as I'd say to a brilliant actor who could = read a Ross> sermon and prayers beautifully, but didn't believe what he was = saying   Perhaps this is a theological debate better conducted elsewhere.   But let me briefly add:   1. What are you paying the musician to do - make music or believe? Would = you employ a bad but devoted musician?   2. Are you not underestimating God and who God can reach or use?   --   Regards,   Roger       Roger Brown mailto:rbrown7@bigpond.net.au http://rogerbrown.tripod.com      
(back) Subject: Re: Membership in the parish From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:43:32 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0056_01C1610E.31418B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Well, I withdraw, put on hold, and freeze-dry my comments about the =3D desirability of being a member. The membership just chose the three =3D people with the shortest longevity of membership for the vestry (all =3D less than a year, and one not more than a month). The handwriting of a = =3D member who thinke she owns the parish is on the wall, and my job and the = =3D series may very well suffer the ax this year. While I am ecstatic not =3D to be chosen to serve on the vestry (been there, done that, and have the = =3D scars for evidence), I know that without her politicking this would not = =3D have happened, so she is now in control of the vestry. She hates me =3D with a purple passion, because she holds me responsible for the canning = =3D of the priest from hell several years back (although I was not even on =3D the vestry when that happened). =3D20 Those of you who pray please remember my church, and me too. I feel God = =3D will take care of me, but I just don't know about the tiny church and =3D organ. =3D20 My prayers are with Bud, his health, and his dilemma.   Not afraid but dismayed, I remain,   Glenda Sutton (who was just negotiating for a rank of reeds and for =3D Felix Hell to come visit for our first decade)   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0056_01C1610E.31418B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Well, I withdraw, put on hold, and = =3D freeze-dry my=3D20 comments about the desirability of being a member.&nbsp; The membership = =3D just=3D20 chose the three people with the shortest longevity of membership for the = =3D vestry=3D20 (all less than a year, and one not more than a month).&nbsp; The =3D handwriting of=3D20 a member who thinke she owns the parish is on the wall, and my job and =3D the=3D20 series may very well suffer the ax this year.&nbsp; While I am = ecstatic=3D20 not&nbsp;to be chosen to serve on the vestry (been there, done that, and = =3D have=3D20 the scars for evidence), I know that without her politicking this would = =3D not have=3D20 happened, so she is now in control of the vestry.&nbsp; She hates me =3D with a=3D20 purple passion, because she holds me responsible for the canning of the = =3D priest=3D20 from hell several years back (although I was not even on the vestry when = =3D that=3D20 happened).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Those of you who pray please remember = =3D my church,=3D20 and me too.&nbsp; I feel God will take care of me, but I&nbsp;just don't = =3D know=3D20 about the tiny church and organ.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>My prayers are with Bud,&nbsp;his =3D health, and his=3D20 dilemma.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Not afraid but dismayed, I =3D remain,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Glenda Sutton (who was just = negotiating =3D for a rank=3D20 of reeds and for Felix Hell to come visit for our first=3D20 decade)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0056_01C1610E.31418B20--    
(back) Subject: membership in the parish--off topic, sort of long From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 07:44:38 EST     --part1_74.12564f90.290ffab6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   With all the talk of how could a person serve in a church with a different =   theological perspective, it makes me think why would you want to serve in = a church that had a different viewpoint that your own?   I could not serve in a liberal, main-line church, even if it had the most wonderful staff, congregation, musicians, and organ. I am an evangelical =   Protestant.....Pentecostal to be exact, but have served in other = evangelical Protestant churches because the points of difference are so minor to be of = no consequence. But to serve in a church that was radically outside of my = realm would not be enjoyable to me. I served for a year at a large mainline = church while I did a Music Internship immediately following college. I've worked = in a situation when I was outside my realm. I hated my job....and that's = what it was, just a job.   To me, church work is more than just a job....it is a ministry. I just = would not be happy if I had to repress my own religious convictions. I would suspect that a person of more liberal thought would not enjoy working in = an Evangelical church, just as I did not enjoy working for a liberal one. There's no right or wrong here. It's just a matter of what you believe = and how deeply you believe it.   At the church where I am a member, communion is open to those Christians = who have had a "born-again" experience. I know that there are many people = that visit the church who can't partake, but how is that different when I go to =   visit some of my Catholic relatives and I can't go to communion with them because I'm not Catholic?   I have always been a member of the churches where I played....at a few churches, it was expected, at others it was my own choice. I have been a substitute at a large (approx. 4500 members) Baptist church in Charlotte, = NC for over a year now. I have been to all sorts of activities at the church = do things outside of church with members who have become friends, etc. I = feel like I am a part of the church. However, I also do have my home church, = with which I participate as much as I can. I have not joined the Baptist = church because I am not going to take the full-time job, much as it has been = offered to me. I don't want to commit back to being stuck to a bench all the = time. I like the flexibility of only playing a few times a month, since I have a =   secular full-time job as a funeral director. I would be comfortable being = a member of this church because they border on Pentecostal and the basic doctrinal beliefs are quite similar. Again, I pose the question, why = would a person want to work in a situation that was radically different from what they believe? To me, it seems that all it would do would bring = frustration to all the parties involved because the whole mindset would be on opposite =   sides of the page.   Just some random thoughts.........     Monty Bennett   --part1_74.12564f90.290ffab6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">With = all the talk of how could a person serve in a church with a different = theological perspective, it makes me think why would you want to serve in = a church that had a different viewpoint that your own?<BR> <BR> I could not serve in a liberal, main-line church, even if it had the most = wonderful staff, congregation, musicians, and organ.&nbsp;&nbsp; I am an = evangelical Protestant.....Pentecostal to be exact, but have served in = other evangelical Protestant churches because the points of difference are = so minor to be of no consequence.&nbsp; But to serve in a church that was = radically outside of my realm would not be enjoyable to me.&nbsp; I served = for a year at a large mainline church while I did a Music Internship = immediately following college.&nbsp; I've worked in a situation when I was = outside my realm.&nbsp; I hated my job....and that's what it was, just a job.<BR> <BR> To me, church work is more than just a job....it is a ministry.&nbsp; I = just would not be happy if I had to repress my own religious = convictions.&nbsp; I would suspect that a person of more liberal thought = would not enjoy working in an Evangelical church, just as I did not enjoy = working for a liberal one.&nbsp; There's no right or wrong here.&nbsp; = It's just a matter of what you believe and how deeply you believe it.<BR> <BR> At the church where I am a member, communion is open to those Christians = who have had a "born-again" experience.&nbsp; I know that there are many = people that visit the church who can't partake, but how is that different = when I go to visit some of my Catholic relatives and I can't go to = communion with them because I'm not Catholic?&nbsp; <BR> <BR> I have always been a member of the churches where I played....at a few = churches, it was expected, at others it was my own choice.&nbsp; I have = been a substitute at a large (approx. 4500 members) Baptist church in = Charlotte, NC for over a year now.&nbsp; I have been to all sorts of = activities at the church do things outside of church with members who have = become friends, etc.&nbsp; I feel like I am a part of the church.&nbsp; = However, I also do have my home church, with which I participate as much = as I can.&nbsp; I have not joined the Baptist church because I am not = going to take the full-time job, much as it has been offered to me.&nbsp; = I don't want to commit back to being stuck to a bench all the time.&nbsp; = I like the flexibility of only playing a few times a month, since I have a = secular full-time job as a funeral director.&nbsp; I would be comfortable = being a member of this church because they border on Pentecostal and the = basic doctrinal beliefs are quite similar.&nbsp; Again, I <BR> Just some random thoughts.........<BR> <BR> <BR> Monty Bennett</FONT></HTML>   --part1_74.12564f90.290ffab6_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Used consoles free From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:48:47 -0500   Dear Blaine, Do you still have those manual cheeks. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 10:29 PM Subject: Re: Used consoles free     > Hi Paul, > > Yes, I can do that. I think I have two manuals with Walnut cheeks from > a vintage with the removable plastic front keys MOS I. I think I also > have two cheeks from a Theatre Deluxe analog organ where the wood used > is a kind of medium blonde color. Which one might be best? Where do > you live? I'm not sure what to charge you other than labor to pack and > ship them. What happened to the cheeks on your keyboards? > > Blaine Ricketts > > Paul Valtos wrote: > > > > Dear Blaine, > > Would you be interested in selling the manual cheeks from one of the > > Allen consoles.That's the piece of wood right next to low an high C. = If you > > do, let me know what you want for them. > > Paul > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: crossing denominational lines From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 07:25:08 -0800   The two times I strayed beyond the Roman Catholic / Anglican / Missour Synod Lutheran orbit were unmitigated disasters. We simply didn't speak the same language as regarded liturgy, music, propriety, etc. ... never MIND belief systems ... AND I found I simply couldn't WORSHIP with them.   I withdrew my name from consideration at a Methodist church that had a FINE three-manual Holtkamp tracker in the French classic/romantic style for the same reason. I substituted there for a time ... the Sunday they had communion, in defiance of Wesley, they "consecrated" the elements without saying the WORDS, much LESS the prayer of consecration in the current Methodist hymnal.   There were other problems ... they went for quite a few years after that with interim music directors, organists and pastors.   I am less concerned about social issues ... I believe what I believe; I do what I do; I contribute to the organizations of my choice. I care not a FIG for the POLITICAL stances of my present parish, but they have traditional music and liturgy, and pay me a living wage. I ignore the rest. And nobody hassles me, at least not in THAT regard.   *I* won't set foot in a modern RC Mass, or a Rite II ECUSA Mass (grin).   As to the PRACTICALITY of crossing denominational lines, it would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE for someone who WASN'T raised a traditionalist anglo-catholic to do MY particular job, but parishes like mine are few and far between these days ... most people with a decent liturgical library could navigate the present RC / Anglican / Lutheran liturgies without too much trouble.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Halloween Organ From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:32:20 EST   Hello to all,   Frequently we debate how to interest youngsters in the organ and I want to =   share with you a very positive event that is happening at Baylor = University tonight. Students of Dr. Joyce Jones, et al, will present a Halloween concert for youngsters who have been invited to campus for a supervised = trick or treat festivity (explanation follows).   The music will include Bach's T&F in Dmin, also Saint-Saen's Danse Macabre =   with dancing skeletons and other spooky effects, plus other selected compositions in keeping with the theme. The organ will be the 3/67 = Rufatti in Roxy Grove Hall on campus.   Baylor is opening its dorms for trick or treaters tonight in order to = provide youngsters with a supervised safe environment. Traditional neighborhood door-to-door candy collection is being discouraged due to national events = and terrorist alerts.   This is a neat idea and many children will get an exposure to organ music which, as I am told, will not be all classical. Are there any other = similar events planned that can be shared on list?   Very best wishes, Jim Pitts  
(back) Subject: Re: crossing denominational lines From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:22:11 EST     --part1_32.1d15ec2e.29102db3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     > the Sunday they had communion, in defiance of Wesley, they "consecrated" = the > elements without saying the WORDS, much LESS the prayer of consecration = in > the current Methodist hymnal. >   One of the blessings (or are is it a bane) of the Methodist denomination = is that there are so many, many, many different stripes and ilks. Here, in = our congregation, we do the words of institution every time we have communion, =   even in our Informal Worship.   In our Methodist Church, we can still say the name "Jesus", but I know of many congregations where they would just as soon not ever hear his name (I =   exaggerate, but I hope the point is not lost).   All denominations are almost always in a state of flux, some of which is good. As long as the basic doctrines and tenets of the respective denom's = are unshakeable, and unshaken (although often questioned); as long as the worship = experience is authentic to the particular congregation, and true to the heritage; as long as Jesus is uplifted, then I can worship there.   In terms of working, that's quite another issue. I do feel that were the opportunity given me to work in a more liturgical setting that I would be able to adapt and learn the ropes, and make beautiful music in the = process.   I could not, with integrity, work in a Christian Science or Mormon or Unitarian place. I just couldn't. Because my beliefs and theirs do not agree.   That's me.   Neil     --part1_32.1d15ec2e.29102db3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">the Sunday they = had communion, in defiance of Wesley, they "consecrated" the elements = without saying the WORDS, much LESS the prayer of consecration in the = &nbsp;current Methodist hymnal. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>One of the blessings (or are is it a bane) of the Methodist = denomination is that there are so many, many, many different stripes and = ilks. Here, in our congregation, we do the words of institution every time = we have communion, even in our Informal Worship. <BR> <BR>In our Methodist Church, we can still say the name "Jesus", but I know = of many congregations where they would just as soon not ever hear his name = (I exaggerate, but I hope the point is not lost). <BR> <BR>All denominations are almost always in a state of flux, some of which = is good. As long as the basic doctrines and tenets of the respective = denom's are unshakeable, <BR>and unshaken (although often questioned); as long as the worship = experience is authentic to the particular congregation, and true to the = heritage; as long as Jesus is uplifted, then I can worship there. <BR> <BR>In terms of working, that's quite another issue. &nbsp;I do feel that = were the opportunity given me to work in a more liturgical setting that I = would be able to adapt and learn the ropes, and make beautiful music in = the process. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>I could not, with integrity, work in a Christian Science or Mormon or = Unitarian place. &nbsp;I just couldn't. &nbsp;Because my beliefs and = theirs do not agree. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>That's me. <BR> <BR>Neil <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_32.1d15ec2e.29102db3_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: New Console Arrives From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:23:43 EST     --part1_113.6d9d9b7.29102e0f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 10/30/01 1:42:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, LLWheels@aol.com writes:     > http://www.webphotos.iwon.com/list_photos.asp?mi=3D3&smi=3D1&a=3D35588 >   Thanks for the photos.... What an exciting. It seems as though = architects subconsciously know the dimensions of organ consoles and make door and = stairs barely wide enough for entry. i remember when the A-S was brought to Trinity Church - St. Augustine FL. They had to CUT two inches of molding =   from the 18-- building to get the console in the West door. It takes up almost half of the north choir. Amazing..... a 3/42 for a building that =   seats about 200 skinny people!!!   I'm enjoying following your rebuild saga. Thanks for including me.   Please visit the NEWLY RENOVATED Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi     --part1_113.6d9d9b7.29102e0f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 10/30/01 1:42:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, LLWheels@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">http://www.webphotos.iwon.com/list_photos.asp?mi=3D3&amp;smi=3D1&amp;a= =3D35588 <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Thanks for the photos.... What an exciting. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It seems = as though architects subconsciously know the dimensions of organ consoles = and make door and stairs barely wide enough for entry. &nbsp;&nbsp;i = remember when the A-S was brought to Trinity Church - St. Augustine FL. = &nbsp;&nbsp;They had to CUT two inches of molding from the 18-- building = to get the console in the West door. &nbsp;&nbsp;It takes up almost half = of the north choir. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Amazing..... a 3/42 for a building = that seats about 200 skinny people!!! <BR> <BR>I'm enjoying following your rebuild saga. &nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks for = including me. <BR> <BR>Please visit the NEWLY RENOVATED Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_113.6d9d9b7.29102e0f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Used consoles free From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:27:14 EST     --part1_6.1e521fb6.29102ee2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 10/30/01 10:00:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, chercapa@enter.net writes:     > Dear Blaine, > Do you still have those manual cheeks. > Paul >   MERCY! Such a personal question!!! heeheehee Please visit the NEWLY RENOVATED Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi     --part1_6.1e521fb6.29102ee2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 10/30/01 10:00:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, chercapa@enter.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Dear Blaine, <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Do you = still have those manual cheeks. <BR> = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>MERCY! &nbsp;&nbsp;Such a personal question!!! &nbsp;&nbsp;heeheehee <BR>Please visit the NEWLY RENOVATED Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_6.1e521fb6.29102ee2_boundary--  
(back) Subject: RE: Membership in the parish From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:33:46 -0500   Interesting, Noel. I'll ask my pastor in the next few hours and see what he says. I believe you're right about the (U)LCA, too. And I recognize that there is a theological slant on this as well, but I can't put my finger on it. As an ALC pastor, I was ex officio member of everything, and totally a member of the congregation. But, true, ex official member of committees, council, etc., meant voice but no vote. I'll get back to you when I find out what my pastor says; he's the kind of guy who'll know. He grew up LCMS, so knows their system, too, which is more congregational than we are. (I'll keep it brief, as I just realized we're on pipechat, and neither of us wants to offend.)   Alan   -----Original Message----- From: Noel Stoutenburg [mailto:mjolnir@ticnet.com] Subject: Re: Membership in the parish   This was the practice in the LCA, too, IIRC. The nickel answer is that the shepherd is not part of the flock. There may be a bit of "anticlericalism" in this, as since the Pastor is not part of the congregation, the Pastor is not supposed to vote in Council / Vestry meetings, or in other policy groups. (Worship and music, or "organ [purchase] committee"--to keep this on topic)   ns