PipeChat Digest #2469 - Tuesday, October 30, 2001
 
RE: Membership in the parish
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: Re[2]: Membership in the parish
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: crossing denominational lines
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re:membership in the parish--off topic, sort of long
  by "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com>
Re: Re[4]: Membership in the parish
  by "Ross Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: Membership in the parish
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re[4]: Membership in the parish
  by "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au>
Re: Re[4]: Membership in the parish
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Membership in the parish From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:00:42 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C1613A.8CDF81E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   -----Original Message----- From: Ross Wards [mailto:TheShieling@xtra.co.nz] Subject: Re: Membership in the parish I could not have someone whose beliefs and outlook were not compatible, e.g. Mormon or Christian Science or Jewish. I cannot accept, you see, that the first two are Christian at all, and the latter denies the divinity of Christ. How do people find as Christians that they can play the organ in a synagogue, or how do Jews play in churches? I am really curious, as the music is so much part of the worship that it is far more than just a job or a way of earning money. Love, Ross Wards (in New Zealand) Ross, I'm in total agreement with you. Though our own organist (a thoroughly devout Lutheran) also plays in a synagogue. And the organist at Temple Emmanuel on Fifth Ave. (one of the most prominent temples on earth) is (as I recall) a Presbyterian. And this is very common in the USA. Alan   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C1613A.8CDF81E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html xmlns:v=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =3D xmlns:o=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =3D xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">   <head> <meta http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3D3DProgId content=3D3DWord.Document> <meta name=3D3DGenerator content=3D3D"Microsoft Word 10"> <meta name=3D3DOriginator content=3D3D"Microsoft Word 10"> <link rel=3D3DFile-List href=3D3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C1613A.7FDC3560"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:RelyOnVML/> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState> <w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState> <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> <w:EnvelopeVis/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:553679495 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-ansi-font-size:12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:blue; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none; text-underline:none; text-decoration:none; text-line-through:none;} span.GramE {mso-style-name:""; mso-gram-e:yes;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */=3D20 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D3D"edit" spidmax=3D3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D3D"edit" data=3D3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head>   <body bgcolor=3D3Dwhite lang=3D3DEN-US link=3D3Dblue vlink=3D3Dblue =3D style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>   <div class=3D3DSection1>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DTahoma><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Ross Wards [mailto:TheShieling@xtra.co.nz<span class=3D3DGramE>] <br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject</span></b></span><b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>:</span></b> Re: Membership in the =3D parish</span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D3 =3D face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span = =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt'>I could not have someone whose beliefs and outlook were not =3D compatible, e.g. Mormon or Christian Science or Jewish. I cannot accept, you see, =3D that the first two are Christian at all, and the latter denies the divinity of =3D Christ. How do people find as Christians that they can play the organ in a =3D synagogue, or how do Jews play in churches? I am really curious, as the music is so = =3D much part of the worship that it is far more than just a job or a way of =3D earning money.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>   </div>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span = =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt'>Love,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>   </div>   <div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span = =3D style=3D3D'font-size: 10.0pt'>Ross Wards (in New Zealand)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>   </div>   <blockquote style=3D3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =3D 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblue = face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>= =3D <o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></b></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D3 color=3D3Dblue face=3D3D"Times New = =3D Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>Ross, I&#8217;m in total agreement = =3D with you. <span style=3D3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span><span =3D class=3D3DGramE>Though our own organist (a thoroughly devout Lutheran) also plays in a =3D synagogue.</span><span style=3D3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>And the organist at Temple =3D Emmanuel on Fifth Ave. (one of the most prominent temples on earth) is (as I recall) = =3D a Presbyterian. <span style=3D3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span>And this is = =3D very common in the USA.<span style=3D3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; =3D </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D3 color=3D3Dblue face=3D3D"Times New = =3D Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>= =3D     <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D3 color=3D3Dblue face=3D3D"Times New = =3D Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>Alan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   </blockquote>   </div>   </body>   </html>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C1613A.8CDF81E0--    
(back) Subject: RE: Re[2]: Membership in the parish From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:17:23 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000C_01C1613C.D5DE9230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   -----Original Message----- From: Roger Brown [mailto:rbrown7@bigpond.net.au] Subject: Re[2]: Membership in the parish So let me put a hypothetical. Roger, I'm a bit surprised at your hypothetical. I've served on a couple of organist-selection committees in various parishes, and cannot IMAGINE starting the evaluation process with his or her "play[ing] a trial service." Surely we'd know a LOT about this person before he/she ever sat on the bench--by conversation, by professional and ecclesiastical reputation, by references, by curriculum vitae, etc. Alan What would be your position if someone came to your church to play a trial service. And the person played beautifully and with every sensitivity and respect for the service. And you were about to tell the person they had the job and they said "Well one thing you should know is that I am an atheist/Mormon/Christian Scientist/Jew/whatever <name your sect>. Would you then show them the door or might you say "God has found this person who CAN help God's work in this place even if the person may not yet have found God in the way I would wish"?   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000C_01C1613C.D5DE9230 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <html xmlns:o=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =3D xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">   <head> <meta http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3D3DProgId content=3D3DWord.Document> <meta name=3D3DGenerator content=3D3D"Microsoft Word 10"> <meta name=3D3DOriginator content=3D3D"Microsoft Word 10"> <link rel=3D3DFile-List href=3D3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C1613C.D47453D0"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:RelyOnVML/> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState> <w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState> <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> <w:EnvelopeVis/> <w:DrawingGridHorizontalSpacing>6 pt</w:DrawingGridHorizontalSpacing> =3D <w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>2</w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEve= =3D ry> =3D <w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>2</w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; 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mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> </head>   <body lang=3D3DEN-US link=3D3Dblue vlink=3D3Dpurple =3D style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>   <div class=3D3DSection1>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br> From: Roger Brown [mailto:rbrown7@bigpond.net.au] <br> <span style=3D3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span>Subject: <span =3D class=3D3DGramE>Re[</span>2]: Membership in the parish<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>So let me put a =3D hypothetical.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3D"Times = New =3D Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p= =3D >   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3D"Times = New =3D Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p= =3D >   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><b style=3D3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font = =3D size=3D3D3 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black; font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Roger, I'm a bit surprised = =3D at your hypothetical. <span style=3D3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span>I've = =3D served on a couple of organist-selection committees in various parishes, and cannot = =3D IMAGINE starting the evaluation process with his or her &quot;play[<span =3D class=3D3DSpellE>ing</span>] a trial service.&quot;<span style=3D3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; =3D </span>Surely we'd know a LOT about this person before he/she ever sat on the bench--by conversation, by professional and ecclesiastical reputation, by =3D references, by curriculum vitae, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><b style=3D3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font = =3D size=3D3D3 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black; font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f= =3D ont></b></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><b style=3D3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font = =3D size=3D3D3 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black; font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>Alan<o:p></o:p></span></fon= =3D t></b></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>What would be your position if someone came = =3D to your church to play a trial<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>service. And the person played beautifully = =3D and with every sensitivity and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>respect for the =3D service.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>And you were about to tell the person they = =3D had the job and they said &quot;Well one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>thing you should know is that I am an atheist/Mormon/Christian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Scientist/Jew/whatever &lt;name your =3D sect&gt;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Would you then show them the door or might = =3D you say &quot;God has found this person<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>who CAN help God's work in this place even if = =3D the person may not yet have found<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'>God in the way I would =3D wish&quot;?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>   </div>   </body>   </html>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000C_01C1613C.D5DE9230--    
(back) Subject: Re: crossing denominational lines From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:46:59 EST   Neil writes:     >I could not, with integrity, work in a Christian Science or Mormon or >Unitarian place. I just couldn't. Because my beliefs and theirs do not >agree. <<   My relationship with a Christian Science congregation lasted about three months. The quality of music was excellent but we were poles apart on theological issues. The Gospel of Mary Baker Eddy did not fit in my traditional framework and I was quite up front with the personnel = committee chairman to whom I submitted my resignation. To my surprise I was invited = to serve them again when their organist left the area, but I declined.   I am not comfortable being a contributor or participant in activities, religious or otherwise, which call upon me to make concessions in my core beliefs. As I am now retired from full-time service, not a week goes by without a call to substitute for other organists. There are some requests =   which are declined based on my rather unyielding convictions for which I = feel apologies are not required.   I have never played for a LDS service.   Best wishes, Jim Pitts  
(back) Subject: Re:membership in the parish--off topic, sort of long From: "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:50:22 -0600   Monty Bennett wrote   > To me, church work is more than just a job....it is a ministry. I just = would > not be happy if I had to repress my own religious convictions. I would > suspect that a person of more liberal thought would not enjoy working in = an > Evangelical church, just as I did not enjoy working for a liberal one. > There's no right or wrong here. It's just a matter of what you believe = and > how deeply you believe it. >   As an organ afficianado I have no direct experience with this situation. = However I do know that the organists in both my current church and my last = church (both UCC, both mainline liberal protestant and that's the way I = like them) also served as organists in local Synagogues. Obviously there = are significant theological differences at play here (though communion is = not an issue at the temple) and I'm curious if other list members who = similarly working two jobs? If so what issues do come up surrounding their = double employment?   While I'm tempted to speculate, I won't. I would like to hear from people = who have done this or are doing it now.   Steve Chandler    
(back) Subject: Re: Re[4]: Membership in the parish From: "Ross Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:13:03 +1300   Roger, Yes, this is a debate that can go on forever and I, being a Celt by ancestry, will argue the opposite of something for the fun of it - what = the Scots call being "thrawn," i.e. someone who enjoys being difficult. Seriously, though, I tend to be a person who will make very strong principles and then make excuses for people who don't (rather, "can't") = live up to them. [Grin, grin, grin] Luckily, I've never paid anyone as a musician in the parishes I have served - all have said they would be insulted if offered anything at all. Their comments have always been - "Well, the florists and the Sunday = School teachers, the Treasurer, the Youth Group leaders, none of them ever get a cent, why should I?" Similarly fortunately, I've never had to use a bad musician, as I've had fairly-to-very good musicians all along. When our choirmistress resigned I took over myself, and have always played at the first Sunday Service and at the midweek Communion as well. And, believe me, I am only too well aware that if the Lord can call = someone like me into the ordained ministry, he can use anyone at all... And, in answer to your implication, I've seen the Lord use no-hopers in all kinds = of areas, and also the non-committed become committed to Christ. Against = that, bad musicians are sometimes better replaced by silence altogether... We could carry this on off-List if you wish, but you can see where I'm coming from, from my own past circumstances. Regards, Ross -----Original Message----- From: Roger Brown <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 30 October 2001 23:48 Subject: Re[4]: Membership in the parish     > >Ross> I'd say the same thing as I'd say to a brilliant actor who could = read a >Ross> sermon and prayers beautifully, but didn't believe what he was = saying > >Perhaps this is a theological debate better conducted elsewhere. > >But let me briefly add: > >1. What are you paying the musician to do - make music or believe? Would you >employ a bad but devoted musician? > >2. Are you not underestimating God and who God can reach or use? > >-- > >Regards, > >Roger > > > >Roger Brown >mailto:rbrown7@bigpond.net.au >http://rogerbrown.tripod.com > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: RE: Membership in the parish From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:40:17 -0500   >. How do people find as Christians that they can play the organ in a synagogue, or how do Jews play in churches? I am really curious, as the music is so much part of the worship that it is far more than just a job = or a way of earning money.   I don't know what the problem is. The Jews have no scriptures that we don't, and the denial of Christ's divinity is not explicit in their liturgies. So what is it that a Christian can't accept? If their forms = of worship are traditional, then they were Our Lord's, too.   I'm glad when I hear of a Jew's freely and without pressure converting to Christianity, but I also greatly respect their culture and what they have gone through over the past 2000 years (largely, alas, because of Christians). As artistic and musical as they tend to be, I'm not sure why they often call on Christians as their organists, but if they call on me = to play for them, it seems to me that the least I can do by way of atonement = is to respond to that call. If there were an issue of not wishing to co-operate with a religion that I believe is false, at least emotionally I would be likelier to object to some Christian sects than a synagogue. The fact also helps that synagogue duties do not interfere with going to = church on Sunday, whereas if one is engaged to play for Sunday services that one doesn't agree with, it's more objectionable because it is also liable to co-opt one's own obligations time-wise as well.   I have worked (especially in my younger days) for a variety of other denominations, and have always had good working relationships-- better, in fact, than I sometimes do in my own church. Perhaps this is because it is easiest to just do as one is told, take the, money, and run. Caring is expensive and dangerous. The love of fine church music can easily go unrequited.   Paul Emmons    
(back) Subject: Re[4]: Membership in the parish From: "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:07:24 +1100   Hello PipeChat   Wednesday, October 31, 2001, 4:17:23 AM, you wrote:   Alan> Roger, I'm a bit surprised at your hypothetical. I've served on a = couple of organist-selection committees in various parishes, and cannot = IMAGINE Alan> starting the evaluation process with his or her "play[ing] a trial = service." Surely we'd know a LOT about this person before he/she ever sat = on the Alan> bench--by conversation, by professional and ecclesiastical = reputation, by references, by curriculum vitae, etc.   Sure - I agree that the hypothetical is not entirely realistic in that = regard.   But it was put to make a point. I've seen far too many fine sensitive performances from people who professed to be of little or no faith to = place too much importance on professed belief.   Respect for the worship and its traditions - yes. Professed belief - no.   I think it's God's job to see the secret heart and no-one else's. If the musician can do the job and doesn't get involved in any public activity = inimical to the image of the church then that's it so far as I am concerned.     --   Regards,   Roger       Roger Brown mailto:rbrown7@bigpond.net.au http://rogerbrown.tripod.com      
(back) Subject: Re: Re[4]: Membership in the parish From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:16:08 EST     --part1_141.3d73110.29109cc8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     > If the musician can do the job and doesn't get involved in any public > activity inimical > to the image of the church then that's it so far as I am concerned   Yes and no. Church music is more than a job. It's more than music. It's =   also being sensitive to God's leading in a particular worship experience. =     If the particular congregation is satisfied with a person simply filling = the job, playing nicely, that's fine. Then the musician does not need to subscribe to the congregation's belief system.   If, however, the congregation wants more than that, then other attributes besides nice playing are warranted and needed.   Neil Brown Barnegat, NJ USA   --part1_141.3d73110.29109cc8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">If the musician = can do the job and doesn't get involved in any public activity inimical <BR>to the image of the church then that's it so far as I am = concerned</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Yes and no. &nbsp;Church music is more than a job. &nbsp;It's more = than music. &nbsp;It's also being sensitive to God's leading in a = particular worship experience. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>If the particular congregation is satisfied with a person simply = filling the job, playing nicely, that's fine. &nbsp;Then the musician does = not need to subscribe to the congregation's belief system. <BR> <BR>If, however, the congregation wants more than that, then other = attributes besides nice playing are warranted and needed. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>Neil Brown <BR>Barnegat, NJ USA</FONT></HTML>   --part1_141.3d73110.29109cc8_boundary--