PipeChat Digest #2381 - Monday, September 17, 2001
 
RE: PipeChat Digest #2378 - 09/16/01
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
(no subject)
  by "Ross Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
USA Flags
  by "Daryel Nance" <DNance@svdp-edu.org>
Re: 32 ft Resultants (correction)
  by "Ross Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: PipeChat Digest #2380 - 09/17/01
  by <PHarri5833@aol.com>
Re: Seeking a carol by Paul Edwards
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
RE: the worst in NYC
  by "Joshua F. Edwards" <fbcorganist@att.net>
RE: the worst in NYC
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
RE: the worst in NYC
  by "Joshua F. Edwards" <fbcorganist@att.net>
Re: 32 ft Resultants (correction)
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: the worst in NYC
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #2378 - 09/16/01 From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 17:38:26 -0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000A_01C13F9F.8E8F7200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Nonsense. It's alleged Pakistan has nuclear arms-but I've never once heard nor thought they have long range capability. I understand you need something along the lines of a Saturn rocket -an ICBM- to deliver a nuclear warhead half way around the world. It could be placed on a bomber from Pakistan, = but I don't think they have the ability to get a bomber close enough to North America let alone penetrate the formidable defense now in place. I truly doubt they have bombers capable of flying more than 1000 miles. I doubt = they have any at all. Pakistan's alleged nuclear capability was developed for short range interests, primarily India.       -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of DRAWKNOB@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 4:33 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #2378 - 09/16/01   In a message dated 9/16/2001 6:38:26 PM Central Daylight Time, pipechat@pipechat.org writes:         The speaker also cautioned that we should not create great anxiety over "war as we know it" since this will be a war fought in ways that will be new       And he's probably right, because if not done right it could turn into an = all out nuclear war. IE: Pakistan has long range tactical nukes and if the fundamentalists over throw the moderate government now in power in Islamabad, or the Afghanistan military invades Pakistan guess where those nukes are going.... Then what we saw on Tuesday last would only be minor. So, in my humble opinion I think that Bush and the U.S. armed forces need = to look at all possibilities and proceed with caution, but with determination and strength.   And don't forget that the USSR fought a bloody and costly war in = Afghanistan and left years later with their tails between their legs only after suffering major losses.....   John   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000A_01C13F9F.8E8F7200 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <html xmlns:o=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =3D xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">   <head> <meta http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3D3DProgId content=3D3DWord.Document> <meta name=3D3DGenerator content=3D3D"Microsoft Word 9"> <meta name=3D3DOriginator content=3D3D"Microsoft Word 9"> <link rel=3D3DFile-List href=3D3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C13F9F.8CDB0B40"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> <w:EnvelopeVis/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:16792199 0 0 0 65791 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle15 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family:Arial; mso-hansi-font-family:Arial; mso-bidi-font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head>   <body lang=3D3DEN-US style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>   <div class=3D3DSection1>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><span class=3D3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D3D2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>No= =3D nsense.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><span class=3D3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D3D2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><s= =3D pan style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>It&#8217;s alleged Pakistan has = =3D nuclear arms&#8212;but I&#8217;ve never once heard nor thought they have long range capability. = =3D I understand you need something along the lines of a Saturn rocket &#8211;an ICBM- to = =3D deliver a nuclear warhead half way around the world. It could be placed on a =3D bomber from Pakistan, but I don&#8217;t think they have the ability to get a bomber = =3D close enough to North America let alone penetrate the formidable defense now in =3D place. I truly doubt they have bombers capable of flying more than 1000 miles. I doubt = =3D they have any at all. Pakistan&#8217;s alleged nuclear capability was =3D developed for short range interests, primarily India.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><span class=3D3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D3D2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!= =3D [if =3D !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><span class=3D3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D3D2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!= =3D [if =3D !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal><span class=3D3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D3D2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!= =3D [if =3D !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DTahoma><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =3D pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>On =3D Behalf Of </span></b>DRAWKNOB@aol.com<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, September = =3D 17, 2001 4:33 PM<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =3D pipechat@pipechat.org<br> <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: PipeChat =3D Digest #2378 - 09/16/01</span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D3 =3D face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =3D !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>In a message dated 9/16/2001 6:38:26 PM Central Daylight Time, =3D pipechat@pipechat.org writes: <br> <br> <br style=3D3D'mso-special-character:line-break'> <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =3D style=3D3D'mso-special-character:line-break'> <![endif]></span></font><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack = face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:win= =3D dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   <div style=3D3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in = =3D 0in 4.0pt'>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D style=3D3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3D3D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The speaker also cautioned that we should not create <br> great anxiety over &quot;war as we know it&quot; since this will be a =3D war fought in <br> ways that will be new</span></font><font color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial FAMILY=3D3DSANSSERIF><span =3D style=3D3D'font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   </div>   <p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D3 =3D color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br> </span></font><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial =3D FAMILY=3D3DSANSSERIF><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br> <br> And he's probably right, because if not done right it could turn into an = =3D all out nuclear war. &nbsp;IE: &nbsp;Pakistan has long range tactical nukes = =3D and if the fundamentalists over throw the moderate government now in power in Islamabad, or the Afghanistan military invades Pakistan guess where =3D those nukes are going.... Then what we saw on Tuesday last would only be minor. =3D &nbsp;So, in my humble opinion I think that Bush and the U.S. armed forces need to = =3D look at all possibilities and proceed with caution, but with determination =3D and strength. <br> <br> And don't forget that the USSR fought a bloody and costly war in =3D Afghanistan and left years later with their tails between their legs only after =3D suffering major losses..... <br> <br> John </span></font><font color=3D3Dblack><span =3D style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt: windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   </div>   </body>   </html>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000A_01C13F9F.8E8F7200--    
(back) Subject: From: "Ross Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:59:32 +1200   Hi! I've said virtually nothing about all those terrible events in the USA and have been quite fascinated by the literally dozens of comments on this = List. I am appalled by the attacks, totally appalled, and grieve desperately for everyone involved - I lost a son and his fianc=E9e in a car crash just two years ago (they were driven into by a woman who went to sleep at the = wheel) and know how every parents suffers for ever on the death of a child. And = I'm sure the God of love I worship is also appalled and grieves even more = deeply than I am able to at violence wherever it is, including both Afghanistan = and the USA. What has prompted me to write is that Ron suggested getting hold of Peter Arnett and seemed to be wondering why he's such a good radio journalist. Well, may I say with pride, perhaps it's because he's a fellow New = Zealander and is not therefore able to be pigeon-holed in the way some other folks might be. (I'm only half-joking!) Like it or not, there are silly people everywhere who take note of accents and stereotypes more than they do of the person concerned. When I was in = the Highlands and Western Isles of Scotland on a sabbatical study in 1992, I = was able to talk deeper things with the locals than many others because, as = one elderly fellow on Skye said, "You're neither English nor American". Culture fascinates me, language fascinates me: just as everyone's country has its terrible types, be they terrorists or the kind of folk like = Falwell you complain of, all countries also have a tremendous heap of wonderful people. In my study in the San Francisco area in 1996 and 1997, it was an absolute delight to meet ordinary folks in their shops and homes and work and churches and recreation. I met folks sometimes even for just a few minutes that will remain etched in my heart forever - they were open, decent, welcoming, loving human beings. And long penfriendship with many others hasn't made me bored with them either. In 1963 I taught "English as a Second Language" to Colombo Plan students = at the university here in Wellington. There were folk from North Borneo, Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia. I treasure their photographs still and = the little gifts we exchanged. Dear, dear people to me, never forgotten. I hope you can follow this convoluted long offering: love all people, love them right through, but hate the sin (i.e. the terrorist activities at the moment). I am a total opponent of Bp Jon Spong's so-called garbage = theology, but I like his comment when he says, "Love wastefully". In other words, spread it all around, everywhere, indiscriminately, over all people. Mind you, he doesn't practise this himself, clearly degrading and abusing fundamentalists and those not like himself. But nevertheless the comment = is a good one. If I had one wish about my first 59 years of life it would be this - that = I had loved more. OK, OK, that sounds like platitudes but it isn't, at least for me. And I = am not even remotely suggesting that "they should get away with it" - the terrorists' attacks, and fundamentalist "theology" (what a travesty to use that word!) must be a vast stench in heaven's nostrils. The sources of Islamic hatred need to be found and cured, and that will probably take a great deal of self-examination and soul-searching all = around the world, with a determination never, ever, to let these things happen again. In the meantime, I cry for you all, and for the likely consequences and = more lives hurt and wrecked and destroyed. Ross (The Rev.Dr) New Zealand    
(back) Subject: USA Flags From: "Daryel Nance" <DNance@svdp-edu.org> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:50:08 -0500   Hi All!   As U.S. Flags have long since disappeared from stores, here is a site from which you can print out a full size 8 1/2 x 11 to smaller sizes - assuming that you have a color printer. You can also save the graphic image for on-computer flags. Note: if you want to print out a flag that is longer = than 8 1/2 ", you have to click on "landscape" in the properties window from = your print window ...otherwise the flag is chopped off at paper's edge.     the URL is: http://www.usflag.org/     If you should forget the link, you can access it through my www.church-organist.com or www.daryeln.com .       Peace and God's blessings on us all,   Daryel           Daryel Nance, St.Vincent's, Houston mailto:dnance@svdp-edu.org; www.dompaulbenoit.com; www.church-organist.com; www.daryeln.com     "...the only ones among you who will really be happy are those who sought and found how to serve." Albert Schweitzer    
(back) Subject: Re: 32 ft Resultants (correction) From: "Ross Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:02:04 +1200   Resultants No, not true, you could never hear the effect of a 32ft resultant at home, as the standing-wave of a 32ft pipe is about 40ft - you need to be that distance away to hear the bottom note! The only way to hear a 32ft = resultant is in a large building - then it can be quite devastating. Ross -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Miles <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 18 September 2001 09:33 Subject: 32 ft Resultants (correction)     >Sorry, got it wrong. Herewith the right version. > >Apropos some messages on the subject of 32 ft resultants 2 or 3 weeks = ago, >you >can hear the effect of adding a sub-quint 10.2/3 ft to a pedal = combination >by going to my website www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk/misc and clicking on the >'Resultant' link. >You do need a good speaker/amplifier set up to hear it properly. > >Regards, > >Bruce Miles > >mail to:- bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk >website:- www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #2380 - 09/17/01 From: <PHarri5833@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:04:37 EDT     --part1_4f.115f592a.28d7cd75_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 17/09/01 22:41:51 GMT Daylight Time, = pipechat@pipechat.org writes:   > My choir director thinks he's heard a work called "Small wonder a > star", by Paul Edwards. Does anybody know it? Who publishes it > and who's the distributor for the UK?   I don't recognise that title, but I do have other compositions by Paul Edwards, all published by Oecumuse (as spelled in Yellow Pages) at 52a = Broad St., Ely, Camb, CB7 4AH, tel 01353 663252 Good luck, Peter M Harrison Emmanuel Church, Holcombe Ramsbottom, Lancashire, GB & P H Music tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 fax: +44 (0)1204 853445 web www.phmusic.co.uk   --part1_4f.115f592a.28d7cd75_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 17/09/01 22:41:51 GMT Daylight Time, pipechat@pipechat.org writes: <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">My choir director = thinks he's heard a work called "Small wonder a <BR>star", by Paul Edwards. &nbsp;Does anybody know it? &nbsp;Who = publishes it <BR>and who's the distributor for the UK?</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I don't recognise that title, but I do have other compositions by Paul = Edwards, all published by Oecumuse (as spelled in Yellow Pages) at 52a = Broad St., Ely, Camb, CB7 4AH, tel <B>01353 663252</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D1 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"arial" = LANG=3D"0"></B> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Good luck, <BR>Peter M Harrison <BR>Emmanuel Church, Holcombe <BR>Ramsbottom, Lancashire, GB <BR>&amp; P H Music <BR>tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 <BR>fax: +44 (0)1204 853445 <BR>web www.phmusic.co.uk</FONT></HTML>   --part1_4f.115f592a.28d7cd75_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Seeking a carol by Paul Edwards From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:30:20 -0500     --------------0375D4F1C55D69392C4F3213 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit       Mark Harris wrote:   > My choir director thinks he's heard a work called "Small wonder a > star", by Paul Edwards. Does anybody know it? Who publishes it > and who's the distributor for the UK?   There may be more than one Paul Edwards, but the music of the one I am most familiar with is published by Oecemuse. I don't have his address handy at the moment; I obtained it from the British Music Information Center.   ns   --------------0375D4F1C55D69392C4F3213 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> &nbsp; <p>Mark Harris wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE>My choir director thinks he's heard a work called "Small wonder a <br>star", by Paul Edwards.&nbsp; Does anybody know it?&nbsp; Who = publishes it <br>and who's the distributor for the UK?</blockquote> There may be more than one Paul Edwards, but the music of the one I am most familiar with is published by Oecemuse.&nbsp; I don't have his = address handy at the moment; I obtained it from the British Music<i> = </i>Information Center. <p>ns</html>   --------------0375D4F1C55D69392C4F3213--    
(back) Subject: RE: the worst in NYC From: "Joshua F. Edwards" <fbcorganist@att.net> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:10:36 -0400   Please remember that this is a list for organists, not gays.... please = take your gay pride elsewhere. I still believe God hates the gay lifestyle. Afterall, isn't that what Soddom and Gomorrah were destroyed for???      
(back) Subject: RE: the worst in NYC From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:21:59 -0500   >Please remember that this is a list for organists, not gays.... please = take >your gay pride elsewhere. I still believe God hates the gay lifestyle. >Afterall, isn't that what Soddom and Gomorrah were destroyed for???   Joshua   You may not realize it but there is a very high percentage of gay men and lesbian women in the United States that are organists. So as far as i am concerned it is VERY on-topic especially right now.   And i think you had better learn your Bible a bit better - someone more versed in biblical interpretation can answer better than I can but that is not what Soddom and Gomorrah were all about! if you think that God hates the gay lifestyle point out to me where Jesus condemns it - you can't because He doesn't anywhere in the Gospels.   David  
(back) Subject: RE: the worst in NYC From: "Joshua F. Edwards" <fbcorganist@att.net> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:34:59 -0400   I don't know which Bible you are reading, but here is an article I found dealing with this issue...   "The lack of record in the Gospels of a statement from Christ on homosexuality does not mean that He never addressed it during His earthly ministry. According to John, if the Gospel writers had attempted to record all the works of Christ, the world could not contain all the books (Jn 21:25).   Moreover, the recorded teachings of Christ in the Gospels are not the Christian's only source of authority. "All Scripture"--from Genesis to Revelation--constitutes the normative authority. The fact that one section of the Bible says nothing explicitly on a subject does not mean the other sections are silent.   Furthermore, it is incorrect to say that Jesus is silent on homosexuality. As we pointed out earlier, Christ's statement in Matthew 19:3-8 and Mark 10:2-9 ("Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave father = and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?") reveals that God's intention at Creation regarding human = sexuality--namely, a monogamous, heterosexual relationship--is the only context for human sexual expression."     "Sodom was destroyed because of pride, inhospitality, and/or gang rape, = not because of homosexuality" Pro-gay advocates argue that when the men of Sodom demanded of Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them" (Gen 19:5), the men of Sodom were only violating the ancient rules of hospitality. Some assert that the Hebrew word yada`, = which is translated "have sex with" (or "know" in KJV) appears 943 times in the Old Testament, and carries sexual meaning only about 10 times. They thus argue that the men of Sodom had no sexual intentions towards Lot's = visitors; they only wanted to "get acquainted" with them or interrogate them, = fearing that they were foreign spies being harbored by Lot, himself a foreigner. Furthermore, even if they had sexual intentions, the judgment on their action would condemn only homosexual gang rape, not a consensual homosexuality as such.   Response Indeed, Sodom was destroyed because of pride and inhospitality (cf. Ezek 16:49, 50; Jer 23:14; Lk 17:28, 29). But separating inhospitality from sexual sin makes a false distinction. What the men of Sodom sought to do = was another form of inhospitality. Also, inhospitality and pride were not the only reasons the Bible gives for Sodom's destruction. The city was = punished also because of its "abomination" (Ezek 16:50), a veiled reference to its sexual deviations. The Bible describes various things as "abomination," a word of strong disapproval, meaning literally something detestable and = hated by God. But since the word is used in the so-called "inhospitality = passages" of Ezekiel 16 to describe sexual sin (vv. 22, 58), and since the word = refers to same-sex acts in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, the "abomination" of Sodom does not exclude sexual deviations.   Two New Testament passages make this point explicitly. The apostle Peter indicates that, among other things, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their "filthy conduct," "lawless deeds," and their "walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness" (2 Pet 2:6-10 NKJV), a reference that includes adultery, fornication, and other sexual = perversions (cf. Gal 5:19-21). Jude specifically linked the destruction of these = wicked cities to their sexual deviations: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, = and going after strange flesh are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). The "fornication and going after strange flesh" are obvious references to sexual perversions (so NIV, RSV, NRSV, Phillips, TEV).   Pro-gay advocates incorrectly assert that the Hebrew word yada` as used in Genesis 19 means "to get acquainted with," not "to have sex with." But = Lot's reply to the men of Sodom shows that he understood their demand in sexual terms: "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing" (Gen 19:7). In fact, = in the very next verse the word yada` is translated "slept with." Lot, acting out of sheer desperation and hopelessness, proposed: "Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with (yada`) a man. Let me bring them out = to you, and you can do what you like with them" (v. 8). Lot definitely had no reason to think that the men of Sodom merely wanted to question or get acquainted with his daughters! One Bible commentary puts it neatly: "It would be grotesquely inconsequent that Lot should reply to a demand for credentials by an offer of daughters."21 Lot's reference to his daughters' virginity also indicates he understood the sexual content of the request. Clearly, then, yada` in this passage refers to sexual intercourse.   This much can be said: The men of Sodom were not interested in Lot's desperate offer of his virgin daughters. They were proposing a homosexual rape. But for such rape to have involved "all the men of the city, both young and old" (Gen 19:4), homosexual activity must have been commonly practiced--one reason why Jude records that their "fornication, and going after strange flesh are set forth [in Scripture] for an example [and = warning unto us]" (Jude 7). As we will see, other Bible passages condemn all homosexual activity, not just homosexual rape."     Want more????? http://www.adventistsaffirm.org/v14n01/02.03.html     Joshua        
(back) Subject: Re: 32 ft Resultants (correction) From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:32:49 -0500     "Ross Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote:   > , you could never hear the effect of a 32ft resultant at home, > as the standing-wave of a 32ft pipe is about 40ft - you need to be that > distance away to hear the bottom note!   While this is true of a real 32' stop, such as a 32' Double Open Wood, Contra Violone, Sub Bourdon or Contra Trombone, a 32' Resultant does not actually need to produce any 32' standing waves. The only standing waves are from the 16' and 10.2/3' that create it, and it works by a trick of = the ear. Of course, in a very small room you won't get the 16' and 10.2/3' standing waves either, and in that case you won't hear the resultant = either.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: the worst in NYC From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:39:39 -0500   >I still believe God hates the gay lifestyle. > >Afterall, isn't that what Soddom and Gomorrah were destroyed for???   Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that Soddom and Gomorrah were destroyed for failing to provide hospitality to strangers. Nothing is mentioned about homosexuality in any passage in the Bible about Soddom and Gomorrah. Why not try reading it for a change?   John Speller