PipeChat Digest #2382 - Monday, September 17, 2001
 
Re: the worst in NYC
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
RE: the worst in NYC
  by "Joshua F. Edwards" <fbcorganist@att.net>
NYC area Pipedreams Broadcast
  by "Jan S. Van Der Stad" <dorian@nac.net>
Re: the worst in NYC (the worst on pipechat)
  by "Ray Ahrens" <Ray_Ahrens@msn.com>
God hates??? (LONG)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: the worst in NYC
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: the worst in NYC From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:44:20 EDT   Jonathan B. Hall writes:     >Those guys are theologically in kindergarten, and they have souls the = size >of dried lentils. Cockroaches, both of them, and a host of others like >them. If America wants to rid the world of terrorism, maybe they should >wait on Kabul and set their crosshairs on Lynchburg. Purity begins at = home. <<     Come on, Jonathan. Don't hold back, son. Tell us how you REALLY feel. = :-)   Your statistics that half the organ world may be of your sexual = orientation is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Do not reduce the credibility of your thesis by inclusion of unsubstantiated theory. The vast, vast = majority of organ professionals I know are heterosexual. The broad brush does not paint so well in this assertion.   John Hagee, another fundamentalist TVangelist in San Antonio, says he can hear the hoofbeats of the Four Horsemen. As you wrote:   >and again I say horse >crap. (snip) Horse crap in >triplicate! <<   What are you trying to tell us here, Jonathan? }:-)   Best wishes, Jim Pitts      
(back) Subject: RE: the worst in NYC From: "Joshua F. Edwards" <fbcorganist@att.net> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:50:27 -0400   >>Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that Soddom and Gomorrah were >>destroyed for failing to provide hospitality to strangers. Nothing is >>mentioned about homosexuality in any passage in the Bible about Soddom = and >>Gomorrah. Why not try reading it for a change?   On the contrary, John,.... read this!!!!   Anyone who has heard of the cities of "Sodom and Gommorah" knows that they were notorious hotbeds of homosexuality. Gen 19:5-8 "and they called to = Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them = out to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at = the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, 'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'" The Greek word in the New Testament for homosexuality = is literally "a sodomite". Jock is trying to redefine what the term = "sodomite" means. (A term that has unchanged in 5000 years, even today- "sodomy") = Apart from the fact the city was clearly destroyed by God because of = homosexuality in the narrative of Gen 19, even the New Testament clearly states exactly the same thing in Jude 7 "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." Any sinner should always remember that the = God who commands us to love our neighbour is the same God who will cast any = and all unrepentant sinners into the "eternal fire". Here are more Bible = quotes, Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it = is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as = those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."    
(back) Subject: NYC area Pipedreams Broadcast From: "Jan S. Van Der Stad" <dorian@nac.net> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:57:03 -0400   Hello, List members   I understand that following last week's tragedy several radio stations lost their antennas which were located on top of the World Trade Centers. It appears the Pipedreams is off the air on Sunday at 9:30 PM EST at 91.5 FM WNYE because the frequency is now being used to broadcast 93.9 FM WNYC, which lost their antenna.   Does anybody know if Pipedreams is broadcasting from a different station for the time being, or if alternate arrangements are in the process of being put in place?   Appreciatively   Jan S. Van Der Stad  
(back) Subject: Re: the worst in NYC (the worst on pipechat) From: "Ray Ahrens" <Ray_Ahrens@msn.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:55:49 -0500     ------=3D_NextPart_001_0001_01C13FBB.2186C840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Can we please take this off list? =3D20 =3D20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua F. Edwards Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:53 PM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: the worst in NYC =3D20 >>Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that Soddom and Gomorrah were >>destroyed for failing to provide hospitality to strangers. Nothing is >>mentioned about homosexuality in any passage in the Bible about Soddom = =3D and >>Gomorrah. Why not try reading it for a change?   On the contrary, John,.... read this!!!!   Anyone who has heard of the cities of "Sodom and Gommorah" knows that = the=3D y were notorious hotbeds of homosexuality. Gen 19:5-8 "and they called to = L=3D ot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them = o=3D ut to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at = =3D the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, 'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'" The Greek word in the New Testament for = homosexuality=3D is literally "a sodomite". Jock is trying to redefine what the term = "sodomit=3D e" means. (A term that has unchanged in 5000 years, even today- "sodomy") = Ap=3D art from the fact the city was clearly destroyed by God because of = homosexual=3D ity in the narrative of Gen 19, even the New Testament clearly states exactly the same thing in Jude 7 "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities = aroun=3D d them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality = an=3D d went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." Any sinner should always remember that the = G=3D od who commands us to love our neighbour is the same God who will cast any = a=3D nd all unrepentant sinners into the "eternal fire". Here are more Bible = quot=3D es, Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; = it=3D is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as = tho=3D se who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not = mad=3D e for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for = th=3D e ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving = i=3D n their own persons the due penalty of their error."     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   ------=3D_NextPart_001_0001_01C13FBB.2186C840 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><BODY STYLE=3D3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>&nbsp;Can we = p=3D lease take this off list?&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE = styl=3D e=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT=3D : #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt = Arial">=3D ----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; = FON=3D T: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Joshua F. Edwards</DIV> <DIV = st=3D yle=3D3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 17, 2001 8:53 = PM<=3D /DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> PipeChat</DIV> <DIV styl=3D e=3D3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: the worst in NYC</DIV> = <DIV>&n=3D bsp;</DIV>&gt;&gt;Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that Soddom = an=3D d Gomorrah were<BR>&gt;&gt;destroyed for failing to provide hospitality = t=3D o strangers.&nbsp; Nothing is<BR>&gt;&gt;mentioned about homosexuality = in=3D any passage in the Bible about Soddom and<BR>&gt;&gt;Gomorrah.&nbsp; = Why=3D not try reading it for a change?<BR><BR>On the contrary, John,.... read = =3D this!!!!<BR><BR>Anyone who has heard of the cities of "Sodom and = Gommorah=3D " knows that they<BR>were notorious hotbeds of homosexuality. Gen 19:5-8 = =3D "and they called to Lot<BR>and said to him, 'Where are the men who came = t=3D o you tonight? Bring them out<BR>to us that we may have relations with = th=3D em.' But Lot went out to them at the<BR>doorway, and shut the door = behind=3D him, and said, 'Please, my brothers, do<BR>not act wickedly.'" The = Greek=3D word in the New Testament for homosexuality is<BR>literally "a = sodomite"=3D .. Jock is trying to redefine what the term "sodomite"<BR>means. (A term = t=3D hat has unchanged in 5000 years, even today- "sodomy") Apart<BR>from the = =3D fact the city was clearly destroyed by God because of = homosexuality<BR>in=3D the narrative of Gen 19, even the New Testament clearly states = exactly<B=3D R>the same thing in Jude 7 "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities = aro=3D und<BR>them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross = immora=3D lity and<BR>went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in = und=3D ergoing the<BR>punishment of eternal fire." Any sinner should always = reme=3D mber that the God<BR>who commands us to love our neighbour is the same = Go=3D d who will cast any and<BR>all unrepentant sinners into the "eternal = fire=3D ". Here are more Bible quotes,<BR>Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a = =3D male as one lies with a female; it is<BR>an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If = t=3D here is a man who lies with a male as those<BR>who lie with a woman, = both=3D of them have committed a detestable act; they<BR>shall surely be put to = =3D death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the<BR>unrighteous shall not = i=3D nherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived;<BR>neither fornicators, = no=3D r idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor<BR>homosexuals" 1 Tim = 1:=3D 9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made<BR>for a righteous = =3D man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the<BR>ungodly = and=3D sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill = their<BR>fathers=3D or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals = and<BR>kidnapp=3D ers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God = gave<BR>the=3D m over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the = natural<BR>fu=3D nction for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the = men<BR>a=3D bandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their = desire<BR>=3D toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving = i=3D n<BR>their own persons the due penalty of their error."<BR><BR><BR>"Pipe = =3D Up and Be Heard!"<BR>PipeChat:&nbsp; A&nbsp; discussion List for = pipe/dig=3D ital organs &amp; related topics<BR>HOMEPAGE : = http://www.pipechat.org<BR=3D >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org<BR>Administration:&nbsp; = mailto:admin=3D @pipechat.org<BR>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:&nbsp; = mailto:requests@pipechat.or=3D g<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_001_0001_01C13FBB.2186C840--  
(back) Subject: God hates??? (LONG) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:04:08 -0700   David is indeed correct. Jesus is silent in the Gospels, except for one = passage: "He who calls his brother 'raca' is in danger of the judgment." Not all = scholars agree, but there is at least some indication that "raca" MAY have been an anti-gay slur ... the debate comes over whether it was directed at the = religions surrounding Israel who practiced same-sex erotic rituals in the context of = their worship.   I hasten to point out that even if it was, like Leviticus, the = condemnation is of RITUAL "abomination", which is applied to a wide range of things that = ALL Christians do as a matter of course -- borrow and lend money at interest, = eat shellfish, wear clothes of mixed cloth, etc. ... "abomination" was RITUAL impurity, NOT sin per se.   There were many things in the Levitical Code that were "abominations" at = certain times and seasons ... the observant Jew would avoid them so as to be able = to take part in various rituals ... c.f. the story of the Good Samaritan ... = to touch a dead man would have rendered the priest and the Levite ritually = impure, and they were on the way to the Temple to fulfill their ritual duties ... = had he DIED in their care, they would have been unable to do so; or the rulers of = the Jews not entering Pilate's palace, so as not to defile themselves and = therefore be unable to participate in the Passover rituals.   As to the verse in Leviticus itself, more than one scholar translates it = thus: "You shall not force a slave of your household to have sexual relations." = No mention is made of the sex of EITHER partner.   Likewise the passages in St. Paul ... I forget the Greek word offhand, but = it's variously translated as "soft", "effeminate", "homosexual", etc. In point = of fact, it is a first-century Greek IDIOM ... without a firm context, it is IMPOSSIBLE to translate accurately.   The story of Sodom is accurately explained in Ezekiel 16:49 and following = ... no mention is made of sex. In the story itself, the verb "to know" has to be understood in context. It is not the usual Hebrew verb for sexual = congress; it is used in that manner in (I think) only three places in the Old = Testament. I find it curious that even if the story of Sodom IS about sex, which it = isn't, that preachers are silent about Lot sending out his DAUGHTERS to the mob.   I would recommend the late Dr. John Boswell's book, "Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality" for further reading.   Having said that, the concept that "God hates" ANYTHING is an unfortunate = one. As a very learned English priest pointed out on Anglican-Music, we = inherited it from our Puritan/Calvinist ancestors, and it's tied up with the doctrine = of predestination. According to that doctrine, God loves (and saves) those = who are predestined to be saved. Therefore, whom God has NOT predestined for = salvation, he "hates".   God is said to "hate" many things in the Old Testament, but the Israel of = five thousand years ago's understanding of God as a tribal war god ("our god is = gonna beat up on your god") is just that ... an imperfect five-thousand-year-old = view. God doesn't change, to be sure; but His revelation of Himself does, and = was completed in the Incarnation and the teachings of Jesus.   There was quite an uproar on another list recently concerning the physical implications of the Incarnation. Without going into great detail, some = were uncomfortable with Jesus in a fully human physical body, with all its = attendant attributes. It was pointed out that this is a VERY ancient HERESY ... = virtually ALL the early controversies in the Church were about christology, that is, = the definition of the Nature of Christ. One of the (controversial) points made = was that Christ as Perfect Man and Perfect God encompassed the KNOWLEDGE of = ALL sexuality. As omniscient God, He would have FORESEEN the present battles = in the churches. Had He, as Perfect God (Who was, Who is, and Who is to come) = felt that it was necessary to say anything (beyond the Two Great Commandments), He = would have.   Beyond that, in the Atonement He took upon Himself ALL the sins of the world ... past, present and future ... AND FORGAVE THEM. So ... even IF = homosexuality IS a sin, which Scripture would seem to indicate it is NOT, it is both = FORGIVEABLE and FORGIVEN, and not the all-encompassing "GREAT SIN" that = fundamentalists would make it out to be.   There IS only ONE "unforgiveable" sin, and that is to NOT heed the = promptings of the Holy Spirit when (S)He speaks to the Church. The Church has made many = errors IN INTERPRETATION over the centuries: the Inquisition, slavery, = segregation, sexism. All were justified by Scripture at the time. In God's time, all = were corrected ... segregation within my lifetime.   On the psychological/societal level, "lifeSTYLE" is an incorrect term. The debate over "nature vs. nurture" hasn't been settled yet, but there are at = least some indications that a PREDISPOSITION toward homosexuality is GENETIC.   Now, to take that back to the RELIGIOUS sphere: God is the Creator of all things; God created the genetic code; God is incapable of creating evil; = God therefore created ALL people in His image, including lesbians and gay men.   Catholic moral theology has ALWAYS held that in order for there to be sin, = there has to be free will. Absent free-will, there is no sin.   For example, a child who has not reached the "age of reason" (commonly = reckoned to be seven years of age) is not held accountable for their actions; = likewise profoundly retarded adults.   The so-called "Natural Law" states that people and things tend to act IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR ESSENTIAL NATURE. The essential nature of homosexual = men and women is, ipso facto, homosexual; the essential nature of heterosexual = men and women is, ipso facto, heterosexual. Many scholars believe THAT'S what = Paul was speaking about ... those (both heterosexual AND homosexual) who = ABANDONED their essential nature were guilty of sin against the "natural law."   OK, that should be enough to start the debate (grin).   Bud (Father M. Cyril, C.R. Retired Claustral Superior The Community of the Resurrection, Old Catholic, Johannine Rite)   David Scribner wrote:   > >Please remember that this is a list for organists, not gays.... please = take > >your gay pride elsewhere. I still believe God hates the gay lifestyle. > >Afterall, isn't that what Soddom and Gomorrah were destroyed for??? > > Joshua > > You may not realize it but there is a very high percentage of gay men > and lesbian women in the United States that are organists. So as far > as i am concerned it is VERY on-topic especially right now. > > And i think you had better learn your Bible a bit better - someone > more versed in biblical interpretation can answer better than I can > but that is not what Soddom and Gomorrah were all about! if you > think that God hates the gay lifestyle point out to me where Jesus > condemns it - you can't because He doesn't anywhere in the Gospels. > > David > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: the worst in NYC From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:01:54 -0400   Dear Josh, I neither condemn nor condone those acts which are done by my = neighbor but attempt to have charity for all. Keep in mind the "Sermon on the Mount."I believe that it was Luther who said,"theology does not lie, but theologians do." Paul   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua F. Edwards" <fbcorganist@att.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: RE: the worst in NYC     > I don't know which Bible you are reading, but here is an article I found > dealing with this issue... > > "The lack of record in the Gospels of a statement from Christ on > homosexuality does not mean that He never addressed it during His = earthly > ministry. According to John, if the Gospel writers had attempted to = record > all the works of Christ, the world could not contain all the books (Jn > 21:25). > > Moreover, the recorded teachings of Christ in the Gospels are not the > Christian's only source of authority. "All Scripture"--from Genesis to > Revelation--constitutes the normative authority. The fact that one = section > of the Bible says nothing explicitly on a subject does not mean the = other > sections are silent. > > Furthermore, it is incorrect to say that Jesus is silent on = homosexuality. > As we pointed out earlier, Christ's statement in Matthew 19:3-8 and Mark > 10:2-9 ("Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made > them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave father and > mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one = flesh?") > reveals that God's intention at Creation regarding human sexuality--namely, > a monogamous, heterosexual relationship--is the only context for human > sexual expression." > > > "Sodom was destroyed because of pride, inhospitality, and/or gang rape, not > because of homosexuality" > Pro-gay advocates argue that when the men of Sodom demanded of Lot, = "Where > are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can > have sex with them" (Gen 19:5), the men of Sodom were only violating the > ancient rules of hospitality. Some assert that the Hebrew word yada`, which > is translated "have sex with" (or "know" in KJV) appears 943 times in = the > Old Testament, and carries sexual meaning only about 10 times. They thus > argue that the men of Sodom had no sexual intentions towards Lot's visitors; > they only wanted to "get acquainted" with them or interrogate them, fearing > that they were foreign spies being harbored by Lot, himself a foreigner. > Furthermore, even if they had sexual intentions, the judgment on their > action would condemn only homosexual gang rape, not a consensual > homosexuality as such. > > Response > Indeed, Sodom was destroyed because of pride and inhospitality (cf. Ezek > 16:49, 50; Jer 23:14; Lk 17:28, 29). But separating inhospitality from > sexual sin makes a false distinction. What the men of Sodom sought to do was > another form of inhospitality. Also, inhospitality and pride were not = the > only reasons the Bible gives for Sodom's destruction. The city was punished > also because of its "abomination" (Ezek 16:50), a veiled reference to = its > sexual deviations. The Bible describes various things as "abomination," = a > word of strong disapproval, meaning literally something detestable and hated > by God. But since the word is used in the so-called "inhospitality passages" > of Ezekiel 16 to describe sexual sin (vv. 22, 58), and since the word refers > to same-sex acts in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, the "abomination" of = Sodom > does not exclude sexual deviations. > > Two New Testament passages make this point explicitly. The apostle Peter > indicates that, among other things, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed > because of their "filthy conduct," "lawless deeds," and their "walk > according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness" (2 Pet 2:6-10 NKJV), = a > reference that includes adultery, fornication, and other sexual perversions > (cf. Gal 5:19-21). Jude specifically linked the destruction of these wicked > cities to their sexual deviations: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the > cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and > going after strange flesh are set forth for an example, suffering the > vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). The "fornication and going after > strange flesh" are obvious references to sexual perversions (so NIV, = RSV, > NRSV, Phillips, TEV). > > Pro-gay advocates incorrectly assert that the Hebrew word yada` as used = in > Genesis 19 means "to get acquainted with," not "to have sex with." But Lot's > reply to the men of Sodom shows that he understood their demand in = sexual > terms: "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing" (Gen 19:7). In fact, in > the very next verse the word yada` is translated "slept with." Lot, = acting > out of sheer desperation and hopelessness, proposed: "Look, I have two > daughters who have never slept with (yada`) a man. Let me bring them out to > you, and you can do what you like with them" (v. 8). Lot definitely had = no > reason to think that the men of Sodom merely wanted to question or get > acquainted with his daughters! One Bible commentary puts it neatly: "It > would be grotesquely inconsequent that Lot should reply to a demand for > credentials by an offer of daughters."21 Lot's reference to his = daughters' > virginity also indicates he understood the sexual content of the = request. > Clearly, then, yada` in this passage refers to sexual intercourse. > > This much can be said: The men of Sodom were not interested in Lot's > desperate offer of his virgin daughters. They were proposing a = homosexual > rape. But for such rape to have involved "all the men of the city, both > young and old" (Gen 19:4), homosexual activity must have been commonly > practiced--one reason why Jude records that their "fornication, and = going > after strange flesh are set forth [in Scripture] for an example [and warning > unto us]" (Jude 7). As we will see, other Bible passages condemn all > homosexual activity, not just homosexual rape." > > > Want more????? > http://www.adventistsaffirm.org/v14n01/02.03.html > > > Joshua > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >