PipeChat Digest #2788 - Tuesday, April 2, 2002
 
Dear God Stop Me Now  :-) (traditional worship)
  by "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>
SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC: traditional worship
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: Easter Offertory
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC: traditional worship
  by "MOC" <MCheckley@mcheckley.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Re: Leiblich Gedact...
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Compton Organs
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Solemn Mass of Easter at National Shrine
  by <MyrtleBeachMusic@aol.com>
Re: Dear God Stop Me Now  :-) (traditional worship)
  by "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net>
Re: Solemn Mass of Easter at National Shrine
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Easter Offertory
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
FELIX HELL CONCERT
  by "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Compton Organs
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
 

(back) Subject: Dear God Stop Me Now :-) (traditional worship) From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:39:50 -0500   Is there any sort of organization to support traditional worship? I mean with the same fervor and outspokenness that we hear from advocates of "Contemporary Worship"?   See, when my church started an 11 AM Contemporary service, I didn't think it was unreasonable for people who wanted that sort of thing, especially since, as organist, I was not asked to participate. We now have three services, 8:20 (chapel), 9:40 (traditional, Sanct.), 11:00 (contemporary,Sanct.) Partly because of this, a couple of things have happened:   1) What was billed as "Traditional Worship" is being bungled (previous post re: Clergy and Liturgical training/devotion). When we have Communion one Sunday a month, we are under such time pressure that it's like Marching Band Communion. First of all, no parts of the usual service are taken out or abbreviated, we just tack Communion on after the sermon and do it with no liturgy of any kind, fast. No confession, no responses, VERY minimal words of institution. I'm serious when I say that it isn't too far from ending the sermon and having the minister say "Y'all come, let's eat!". In my mind, a service called "Traditional Worship" in which things are done so haphazardly undercuts the potential. Same with hymn choices, see my previous post. It's also true that when time gets tight, what they want is EXACT TIMINGS on the choir anthems, as if that's the culprit. Nobody thinks of telling the Rev. Third One Down (Youth Minister) that his rambling chattiness and five minute Pastoral Prayer have to go. Every Sunday we have him brightly greeting us with his complete name and title, and remarking that we should have received a BULLETIN when we came in! Like we are too dumb to know these things already. This is EXACTLY the same in feeling as: "HI! I'm Jason and I'll be your server this evening! Hope you've looked over the menu, now let me tell you about our specials!" I mean it, EXACTLY the tone. How traditional/formal is this? It's insulting, to me. Our Maundy Thursday service was a series of dramatic monologues by Biblical characters on the periphery of the Holy Week events. Then Marching Band Communion again. Except that you received it at one of the seats at a table set up like the Last Supper ("Don't sit in Jesus's seat, don't sit in Judas's seat.") The choir singing stuff from the Bach St. John Passion, no less. OK, it wasn't poorly done, but: WAS IT WORSHIP? I really have my doubts. To me it seemed like Entertainment. Am I just old and crabby?   2) All of the energy, enthusiasm, and publicity is going into the contemporary service. Sure, it's new, it's the "in" thing. But I really think there's an equal "market" for Traditional Worship. Forgive the term. It's not being cultivated. That's what prompted the opening question in this post. Of course, it would have to be well-done liturgically and then publicized. Whoops, none of that's gonna happen, looks like.   A few years ago, the H.Q. church (previous post) sent a mailing to ALL homes in a wide radius. It said things like: "Sermons you can USE in your daily life!" "No more BORING organ music!" "Come as you are, bring your bagel, too!" "Theology you'll understand RIGHT NOW and not have to think about all day!" I swear to you, people, it said that stuff.   At this point in my life, I would scramble to 1) work at or give my time to, 2) just attend in the pew, and/or 3) donate substantial amounts of money to a church that sent me a mailing that said:   "SATB Choir, traditional repertoire, volunteer and professional singers!" "Standard Organ repertoire!" "We follow the Liturgical Year!" "Sermons which illuminate the meaning of the scriptures", "No guitars or hand-held percussion of any kind!!!" "No chatty show-biz clergy who believe that their charisma is why you've come!" "We cultivate a sense of awe and mystery which is only appropriate when approaching the Almighty!"   Is anyone out there taking an ASSERTIVE approach to traditional worship? Or is it just the addled relative still allowed to come to its place at the table every Sunday, 'cause, well, what else can you do?   I'm absolutely shutting up now.   Chuck Peery Cincinnati          
(back) Subject: SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC: traditional worship From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:08:58 -0800   This isn't REALLY off-topic, as the threat of "praze bands" replacing robed choirs and organists is a very real one.   I really don't know what to tell you ... places like Christ Church Cathedral and Old St. Mary's RC in Cincinnati are going to hold the line .... the Cathedral with music (at least), and Old St. Mary's with music AND liturgy, at least at their Latin Mass. I don't know what's going on now at St. Michael and All Angels Episcopal in Avondale, or St. Stephen's Episcopal in Mt. Healthy ... those USED to be the anglo-catholic Episcopal churches.   Unfortunately, I don't know of any movements or organizations in other denominations that are fighting this pernicious fad.   It will NEVER, EVER happen in the "continuing" Anglican Churches ("Change??!! My great-grandmother GAVE that light bulb!!!") (grin), but I don't know if there's one of those in your area.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: RE: Easter Offertory From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:15:08 -0600   She typed it in homage to Billy Wilder, no doubt.   -----Original Message----- From: Wurlibird1@aol.com [mailto:Wurlibird1@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 10:45 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Easter Offertory     Happy Holy Days to everyone,   Change can bring some unexpected results. Our new church secretary is now =   responsible for preparing, editing, and printing our Sunday service bulletins for the two churches I serve (UMC). Four hundred have been printed in beautiful and professional layout, eye-catching, easy to read, and with = the following credit:   OFFERTORY: Adagio.............................C.M. Wilder (5th Organ Symphony)   Hope this is not prophetic of the pedal duet. Last week, missing = offertory plates and this week a new composer. Life among Methodists is never dull.   My very best Easter wishes for all, Jim Pitts             "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC: traditional worship From: "MOC" <MCheckley@mcheckley.fsbusiness.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 00:38:59 +0100   y'know, Bud, these guys really OUGHT to come to England. YES, we have our share of "happy-clappyists", but there are plenty of churches who operate = a broadly traditional modus operandum. Furthermore, the trend for = traditional style churches to be "taken over" by those of the opposite persuasion is = now pretty well dead. There is, firstly, a sufficiency of Churches now extant = to cater for that requirement. Furthermore, the disaster caused by the "move in, change everything, drive the established people out, and then leave = when you only get it MOSTly (not all) your own way" brigade is sufficiently well-known that sensible, middle of the road, traditional Parishes are = VERY cautious about the appointment of Clergy, and about including people with = no track-record of at least a few years' service on their Councils. Yes, = there has been a revolution, yes, people have been unchurched, yes, there has = been much pain. But I really DO think that the lesson is well on the way to learnt, and nowhere so much as in the Roman Church where many Parishes are now actively seeking to re-instate the traditional music programmes they = so casually threw away overnight twenty years ago.   As a traditional, amateur church musician, I'm really quite optimistic = about the medium term. There is still pain to go, but common-sense is beginning = to prevail.   MOC   ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> To: "pipechat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:08 Subject: SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC: traditional worship     > This isn't REALLY off-topic, as the threat of "praze bands" replacing > robed choirs and organists is a very real one. > > I really don't know what to tell you ... places like Christ Church > Cathedral and Old St. Mary's RC in Cincinnati are going to hold the line > ... the Cathedral with music (at least), and Old St. Mary's with music > AND liturgy, at least at their Latin Mass. I don't know what's going on > now at St. Michael and All Angels Episcopal in Avondale, or St. > Stephen's Episcopal in Mt. Healthy ... those USED to be the > anglo-catholic Episcopal churches. > > Unfortunately, I don't know of any movements or organizations in other > denominations that are fighting this pernicious fad. > > It will NEVER, EVER happen in the "continuing" Anglican Churches > ("Change??!! My great-grandmother GAVE that light bulb!!!") (grin), but > I don't know if there's one of those in your area. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Leiblich Gedact... From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:38:29 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Felix Hell" <Hell-Felix@t-online.de> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 10:31 AM Subject: Re: Leiblich Gedact...     As to my best knowledge a "Lieblich Gedackt" is a metal pipe, at a scaling range somehow between medium and narrow, if you take a "Gedacktfloete" or a "Gedackt" as wide scaled, and a Quintade or a Pommer, which both can = be wooden pipes also, as narrow scaled. And the translation of "Gedackt" = simply means, that the pipe is stopped, or "gedeckt". The stopper is called in German "Deckel", or sometimes "Spund". Please advise, if I'm mistaken.   Yes, and no. You are right in saying that literally, "Lieblich Gedeckt" (also spelt Gedackt, Gedact, Gedacht, etc., according to the dialect) = means "Lovely Stopped", but the stop can either be wooden or metal. "Lovely" = oin this context tends to mean "not very loud". The eighteenth-century Pennsylvania organbuilder David Tannenberg made his of stopped wood. The nineteenth-century German organbuilder Edmund Schulze made his of metal = with wooden stoppers, and it is largely as a result of his influence that most stops of this kind are metal. The English organbuilders Henry Willis and = T. C. Lewis, for example, copied Schulze's stops, and thence the idea spread all over the English-speaking world. I believe the first American example in the Schulze tradition was in the imported Lewis organ in the Episcopal Church in Ripon, Wisconsin in 1866.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Compton Organs From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:48:37 -0600   ----- Original Message ----- From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 6:33 PM Subject: RE: Compton Organs     >Because Compton knew so much about tonal things, he >recognised that the human ear cannot distinguish pitch >below bottom EEEE   Really? Well, in that case I guess we can give up bothering to tune the lowest four notes of 32' stops. Funny, though, we always thought we could tell whether or not they were in tune, and our customers tend to complain = if they aren't.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Solemn Mass of Easter at National Shrine From: <MyrtleBeachMusic@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:15:57 EST     --part1_15c.b1bc90c.29da7c6d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Happy day off to all. Hope you enjoyed one....I know I did !   So that the message is on topic: I really like what Goulding & Wood has = done with the pipe facade there. It wasn't a big change from the old facade by =   any means, but somehow it looks so much more impressive in person than it used to.   Ok, now the real reason for the message: I love to watch the Masses that EWTN occassionally televises from the Basilica of the National Shrine of = the Immaculate Conception (aren't you glad your church's name isn't that long?!?!) in Washington, D.C. All the Mary talk gets to be wearying = rather quickly, but the music is almost always exceptional....love to hear Robert =   Grogan play the **** out of that organ.   Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone else watched it perhaps recognized what music was sung as the cardinal was walking down the aisle with his squirt gun....I mean sprinkler....I mean water thingie. It was some kind of Alleluia in a responsorial form with cantor verses that had to do with Baptism. Did anyone catch this who knows what it is?   Thanks,   Jeremy....the Episcopalian who doesn't know all the Catholic buzzwords.   --part1_15c.b1bc90c.29da7c6d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Happy day off to all.&nbsp; Hope you enjoyed = one....I know I did !<BR> <BR> So that the message is on topic:&nbsp; I really like what Goulding &amp; = Wood has done with the pipe facade there.&nbsp; It wasn't a big change = from the old facade by any means, but somehow it looks so much more = impressive in person than it used to.<BR> <BR> Ok, now the real reason for the message:&nbsp; I love to watch the Masses = that EWTN occassionally televises from the Basilica of the National Shrine = of the Immaculate Conception (aren't you glad your church's name isn't = that long?!?!) in Washington, D.C.&nbsp; All the Mary talk gets to be = wearying rather quickly, but the music is almost always = exceptional....love to hear Robert Grogan play the **** out of that = organ.<BR> <BR> Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone else watched it perhaps recognized what = music was sung as the cardinal was walking down the aisle with his squirt = gun....I mean sprinkler....I mean water thingie.&nbsp; It was some kind of = Alleluia in a responsorial form with cantor verses that had to do with = Baptism.&nbsp; Did anyone catch this who knows what it is?<BR> <BR> Thanks,<BR> <BR> Jeremy....the Episcopalian who doesn't know all the Catholic = buzzwords.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_15c.b1bc90c.29da7c6d_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Dear God Stop Me Now :-) (traditional worship) From: "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:44:20 -0500   Chuck - my whole-hearted concurrence - if one stops to think even briefly about WHO we are worshipping, it suddenly becomes clear that even our = best and most considered efforts fall so far short of being even remotely appropriate of God's unimaginable majesty.   The answer to your "ASSERTIVE" question is certainly yes, in our congregation, but we realize that our freedom to do so has been bought = with a price, and more than once.   Our small church mailing might say "SAB Choir (working on getting more = than 2 men), traditional (simplified) repertoire, highly dedicated volunteer singers, Standard Organ repertoire"   Ed, in Maine - half way thru adding solid-state action (to keep on topic!)   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 5:39 PM Subject: Dear God Stop Me Now :-) (traditional worship)   > At this point in my life, I would scramble to 1) work at or give my time > to, 2) just attend in the pew, and/or 3) donate substantial amounts of > money to a church that sent me a mailing that said: > > "SATB Choir, traditional repertoire, volunteer and professional > singers!" "Standard Organ repertoire!"   >"We cultivate a sense of awe and mystery which is > only appropriate when approaching the Almighty!" > > Is anyone out there taking an ASSERTIVE approach to traditional > worship?    
(back) Subject: Re: Solemn Mass of Easter at National Shrine From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:06:58 -0600   At 10:15 PM -0500 04/01/2002, MyrtleBeachMusic@aol.com wrote: >Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone else watched it perhaps recognized >what music was sung as the cardinal was walking down the aisle with >his squirt gun....I mean sprinkler....I mean water thingie. It was >some kind of Alleluia in a responsorial form with cantor verses that >had to do with Baptism. Did anyone catch this who knows what it is? > >Thanks, > >Jeremy....the Episcopalian who doesn't know all the Catholic buzzwords.     Jeremy   It is called an "Aspergillum" that is used for the sprinkling of the congregation. And the traditional chant during the sprinkling in Easter Season is the Vidi Aquam so what you heard may have been some version of that chant.   David - an Episcopalian whose church used both of the above.      
(back) Subject: Re: Easter Offertory From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:19:39 -0600   Jim Pitts <Wurlibird1@aol.com>   > <major snippage> the following credit:   > OFFERTORY: > Adagio.............................C.M. Wilder   Maybe the "spellchecker" on the PC did it!   Faithfully,   Grandpa Arp   -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: FELIX HELL CONCERT From: "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 03:12:37 -0500   AGO Members, Friends, Pipe Organ Lovers ! Please Share this Announcement with EVERYONE !!!!!!! (Friends, Email contacts, Church Members, Work Associates, and more)   Very Important Concert Announcement     SIXTEEN YEAR-OLD PIPE ORGAN VIRTUOSO FELIX HELL - First Concert in theTampa Bay area ! APRIL 14, 4:00 PM First Presbyterian Church, 701 Beach Dr. N.E., St. Petersburg (church phone, First Presbyterian 727-822-2031) Note: This is a Great Opportunity for the Tampa Bay area ! THANKS VERY MUCH FOR SHARING THIS INFORMATION.   The Clearwater Chapter of the American Guild of Organists Presents: FELIX HELL, Sixteen Year-Old German Organ Virtuoso at First Presbyterian Church, 701 Beach Drive NE, St.Petersburg. Concert Program will include J.S.Bach: Fantasy and Fugue in G minor, Trio Sonata No. 1, Prelude and Fugue in D Major; Felix Mendelssohn: Sonata Nol 1 in F Minor; Cesar Franck: Chorale No. 1 in E Major; Rheinberger, Abendfriede; Schneider, Toccata "Schlafes Bruder; and Franz Liszt, Adagio/consolation, and Prelude and Fugue in B-A-C-H.   Free- Will Offering at the Concert - Advance Tickets for "Angel Sponsors=E2=80=9D offers select seating and names listed in program, Sponsor Ticket $10.00. For Sponsor Tickets call Don Rolander, Largo, 727-585-9969 or Beth Hunter, Clearwater 727-447-3469 -- Tom Hoehn, Organist http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn Royalty Theatre, Clearwater, FL Tampa Theatre, Tampa, FL First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL CFTOS/Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS    
(back) Subject: Re: Compton Organs From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:12:36 +1200   And it would make nonsense of the claim, since scientifically proved, that the Hill company actually tuned properly the 64ft Trombone in Sydney Town Hall. Ross -----Original Message----- From: John L. Speller <jlspeller@mindspring.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 1:52 PM Subject: Re: Compton Organs     >----- Original Message ----- >From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 6:33 PM >Subject: RE: Compton Organs > > >>Because Compton knew so much about tonal things, he >recognised that the >human ear cannot distinguish pitch >below bottom EEEE > >Really? Well, in that case I guess we can give up bothering to tune the >lowest four notes of 32' stops. Funny, though, we always thought we = could >tell whether or not they were in tune, and our customers tend to complain if >they aren't. > >John Speller > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >