PipeChat Digest #2807 - Tuesday, April 16, 2002
 
Confusion in Easter . . .
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
NYTimes organ article
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: Confusion in Easter . . .
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
RE: What I did on my Easter 2
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
RE: Confusion in Easter . . .
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
RE: What I did on my Easter 2
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com>
SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC -- Re: Confusion in Easter / reconciling the Graduale 
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Hymns for "Christ and Culture in Paradox"
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
ebay Estey --- proposed stop changes?
  by <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw>
 

(back) Subject: Confusion in Easter . . . From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:39:38 -0500   I noticed that many churches listed yesterday as "Good Shepherd Sunday". My ChoirMasters lists it as next Sunday. At one point someone listed the "names" for the Sundays in Easter, but I couldn't find it in my archives. Apparently there are at least two lists - could someone share?   For instance:   Second Sunday - "Thomas Sunday" Fourth Sunday in modern day Episcopal churches - "Good Shepherd Sunday" Sixth Sunday - "Rogation Sunday" (or one of them)   Thanks.   Glenda Sutton      
(back) Subject: NYTimes organ article From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:10:37 -0500   Article about new synagogue organ in New York: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/13/arts/music/13ORGA.html?todaysheadlines       Margo    
(back) Subject: Re: Confusion in Easter . . . From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:38:50 -0400   Hi Down There,   Is it possible that there is confusion because some people say "1st Sunday after Easter" for (this year) April 7th, whereas others, including the rector of my church refers to that as the "2nd Sunday of Easter." Be that as it may, that day was called Doubting Thomas Sunday, last Sunday is Bread-Breaking Sunday, which causes me difficulty, avoiding saying Bed Breaking Sunday. Next Sunday is indeed Good Shepherd. The next Sunday, we show only as "Preparation for Pentecost," and the next is a Rogation Sunday.   It may all be different below the equator!   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: Confusion in Easter . . .     > I noticed that many churches listed yesterday as "Good Shepherd Sunday". > My ChoirMasters lists it as next Sunday. At one point someone listed > the "names" for the Sundays in Easter, but I couldn't find it in my > archives. Apparently there are at least two lists - could someone > share? > > For instance: > > Second Sunday - "Thomas Sunday" > Fourth Sunday in modern day Episcopal churches - "Good Shepherd Sunday" > Sixth Sunday - "Rogation Sunday" (or one of them) > > Thanks. > > Glenda Sutton        
(back) Subject: RE: What I did on my Easter 2 From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:58:38 -0500   This is hospitality of the highest order. I've been its beneficiary twice and can't wait to come back.   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: Glenda [mailto:gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 10:27 AM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: What I did on my Easter 2     Any time you are heading this way, there's a guest room and steaks on the grill.   Glenda Sutton           "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: RE: Confusion in Easter . . . From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:18:19 -0400   Malcolm asks:   >Is it possible that there is confusion because some people say "1st Sunday after Easter" for (this year) April 7th, whereas others, including the rector of my church refers to that as the "2nd Sunday of Easter."   No, I think the difference lies between the old and new lectionaries, because there really is a week's difference, not just in name.   Someone else listed both the introit and the other lections. The introit for yesterday, reflecting the old usage, is about good shepherding because the new lectionary does not prescribe introits at all, at least in any disciplined or widely accepted manner. So some places use the new lectionary together with the minor propers in the old order, a = schizophrenic solution as this case illustrates. If the name of the Sunday is taken = from the introit, it might still be called Good Shepherd Sunday, with even more schizophrenic effect, the relevant major propers having been transferred quite away.   The minor propers need to be redistributed to fit the new lectionary = better, but as this not been done authoritatively, we have another headache: an attempt to do so, however much sense it might make, must be a local or unofficial scheme, therefore more characteristic of Congregationalism than of the Catholicity that one wishes to affirm by using the minor propers in the first place.          
(back) Subject: RE: What I did on my Easter 2 From: "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:45:55 -0700 (PDT)   Glenda, yoou are much too sweet. I'm afraid my traveling days are over, though. So you'll have to let me take you to lunch when you get to New York!   Alan   --- Glenda <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> wrote: > Any time you are heading this way, there's a guest > room and steaks on > the grill. > > Glenda Sutton > >   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC -- Re: Confusion in Easter / reconciling the Graduale and the Lectionary (long) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:52:58 -0700       "Emmons, Paul" wrote:   > Someone else listed both the introit and the other lections. The = introit > for yesterday, reflecting the old usage, is about good shepherding = because > the new lectionary does not prescribe introits at all, at least in any > disciplined or widely accepted manner. So some places use the new > lectionary together with the minor propers in the old order, a = schizophrenic > solution as this case illustrates. If the name of the Sunday is taken = from > the introit, it might still be called Good Shepherd Sunday, with even = more > schizophrenic effect, the relevant major propers having been transferred > quite away. > > The minor propers need to be redistributed to fit the new lectionary = better, > but as this not been done authoritatively, we have another headache: an > attempt to do so, however much sense it might make, must be a local or > unofficial scheme, therefore more characteristic of Congregationalism = than > of the Catholicity that one wishes to affirm by using the minor propers = in > the first place. >   There is a semi-official cross-reference by the late Mason Martens that = was published by the Church Army of the Episcopal Church in the United States = of America (ECUSA), called "The Traditional Anthems of the Eucharist." It is = long out of print, but circulates in typewritten copies among older = anglo-catholic organists.   Basically, it is an Anglican adaptation of "Ordo Cantus Missae," which WAS = an official publication of the Roman Catholic Church ... OCM was an interim cross-reference that allowed one to use the old Graduale Romanum with the = new three-year cycle until Solesmes published the new Graduale Romanum, which = came out in 1975 or thereabouts.   In order to do it RIGHT, one needs (1) a 1908 Graduale Romanum (the Liber Usualis won't do, as OCM draws upon the ENTIRE Gregorian repertoire, some = of which is omitted from the LU), (2) a pre-Vatican II RC Latin-English daily Missal, (3) a copy of either OCM (available from Libreria Editrice = Vaticana ... they have a website) or the new GR (available from Solesmes ... they also = have a website). A working knowledge of Latin also helps (chuckle).   If one is working with the ANGLICAN liturgy, (4) a People's Anglican = Missal , and (5) a copy of either the English Gradual II or Palmer's Plainchant = Gradual are also required. The People's Anglican Missal is available from the = Anglican Catholic Church website; English Gradual II USED to be available from GIA Publications, but they REALLY have to hunt for it ... you need to tell = them it's in their RSCM catalog ... I think the ACC supply of copies is exhausted; = the Plainchant Gradual can be found in large libraries, or copies can be = begged from older anglo-catholic organists who have it (grin).   BUT ... you will NOT find proper Introits, Graduals, Alleluias, Tracts, Offertories and Communions for EVERY Sunday of all THREE years of the new lectionary. Where congruent texts DID exist elsewhere in the repertoire, = they have been provided as options in Year A, B, or C ... but there is usually = ONE "general" set of Propers provided which CAN serve for all three years.   I would disagree that flexibility in the use of the propers is a symptom = of congregationalism ... prior to the Council of Trent and the Missal of Pius = V, there was a "stock-pot" of Introits, Graduals, Alleluias, Tracts, = Offertories and Communions ... the choice was at the pleasure of the choregos = (choirmaster), subject to the various diocesan Usages and "immemorial custom." Trent = FROZE all that, rather willy-nilly ... for instance, you have "Job's boils" = (chuckle) as the Offertory on the 21st Sunday after Trinity, simply because = Palestrina's choir-men refused to give up his gorgeous 5-part setting (!). The OT = lesson that referred to Job's boils had disappeared centuries earlier.   The "stock-pot" approach was particularly evident on "green Sundays", = which is why there's never complete agreement between the OLD Lectionary and the = Propers for any given Sunday after Epiphany or Pentecost/Trinity.   At St. Matthew's, I take the following approach, even though we still use = the one-year lectionary:   I let the historic Introits stand, at least for Advent Sunday through = Trinity Sunday, unless the suggestion in the new books makes more sense.   IF the Gradual and Alleluia connect to the Epistle and Gospel, I leave = them alone; if they DON'T, I take the Gradual from the Epistle or the "starred" = Psalm in the old ECUSA Lectionary for Morning Prayer ... the "starred" Psalms = are said to relate to the readings at Mass ... the connection is more obvious with = some than with others; I take the Alleluia Verse from the Gospel.   We have only recently resumed singing the Offertory Verses, so I haven't = really formulated a plan for them. I suppose they should refer back to the = Collect or the Epistle, or to the season. There is a continuity of sorts in the = Offertories for Trinitytide ... the old books take Psalms and breaks then up into = discrete chunks over several weeks.   The Communion-Verses, like the Antiphons upon Benedictus and Magnificat in = the Office, are SUPPOSED to refer back to the Gospel ... that's probably where = I make the most use of the new books ... they have come up with a LOT of = better Communions.   For instance, it's obvious that the Communion for the Feast of Corpus = Christi re-used the melody of the Pentecost Communion in the old books. As the = Pentecost Communion melody (with its trumpet calls and mighty winds) is rather text-specific, it would be better to take "Qui manducat carnem meam" or = "Hoc corpus" (the two suggestions in the new GR) instead.   HOWEVER, I will give up the Byrd setting of "Sacerdotes Domini" (the old Offertory) when they pry it from my cold dead fingers (grin), so I DON'T = change that, even though the new books give "Portas caeli" or "Sanctificavit = Moyses" instead.   One thing I HAVEN'T referred to much is the list of Introit Psalms in the = first Prayer Book of 1549 ... I glanced at them briefly, and they didn't seem to = have much connection to anything (were they a sop to the Puritans?), and since = they disappeared from subsequent Prayer Books, I felt the Lectionary Psalms = were more relevant.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Hymns for "Christ and Culture in Paradox" From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:13:36 -0400   Richard Niehbur's great book _Christ and Culture_ includes a category he lables "Christ and Culture in Paradox." In essence, it's Augustinian theology of the City of God and the City of Man, i.e., the heavenly realm versus the earthly realm. This understanding sees the earthly realm as = NOT the place where God's kingdom can or ever will come, consistent with = Jesus' comment "My kingdom is not of thsi world,....."; yet, the earthly realm = is a place for Christians to live out the Christian life as best they are possibly able, keeping the Church and the world separate, however, and having Christian influence chiefly through Chrstians as persons but not through the Church per se. (That does not imply that the Church is out of order to "proclaim" to the world, however.)   To a degree, I suspect this stance is best found in Roman Catholic and Lutheran theology. Present-day fundamentalists who closely tie the flag and the coutnry to churchly proclamation fall into Niehbur's "Christ of culture" category, of course. By comparison, Mennonites exemplify Niehbur's "Christ against culture" category and would NEVER agree to = having the American flag in their churches, at least if they are "pure" = Anabaptist in doctrine. (Actually, Lutherans' "two-kingdoms" doctrine is also = offended by the presence of the American flag in the church building, but many have it anyway!!)   I would like to find one or more hymns that deal strongly with this "Christ and Culture in Paradox" theological posture. All suggestions will be gratefully received.   Cordially,   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA  
(back) Subject: ebay Estey --- proposed stop changes? From: <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:10:17 +0800 (CST)         Greetings to all...     When I was in junior high school I went to camp for three summers... On Sundays we went to a Presbyterian church with a 7 rank Estey tubular pneumatic organ... It sounded pretty nice.... so I always have a soft spot in my heart for Esteys, especially ones with a "third" keyboard used to put stops on and off...     The following organ is for sale on ebay... the seller stated that he rescued the organ from a dump eight years ago... the project has proved a bit too much for him.... So he has put it on ebay...     I have no financial interest in the remnants of the organ... But upon my request, he did send me the specs of the organ....     SW Tremelo SW Aeoline 8 SW Salicional 8 SW Stopped Diapason 8 SW Flute Harmonic 4' SW VIolin Diapason 8 SW Bourdon Bass 16' SW Bourdon Treble 16' SW Oboe 8 (presumably a reedless Oboe)   Great to Pedal Swell to Pedal Swell to GReat 4' Swell to Great 8   GT Dulciana 8 GT Melodia 8 GT VIola Da Gamba 8 GT Open Diapason 8 GT Principal 4   Pedal Lieblich Gedackt 16' (perhaps a second pressure of the Pedal BOurdon?) Ped Bourdon 16'     Ahem.... If you were redoing this organ, what changes would you make to try and improve it?   For example,   The Aeoline 8' could be cut down and become a 2' stop.... OR it could become a Celeste rank.   The Dulciana 8 could be cut down and become a 2' stop ... providing the Viola Da Gamba could be played by itself and not be grating on human ears, unlike some Salicionals.... By the way, the Estey Salicional I heard on the Estey organ I referred to at the church above had a very nice Salicional, which could be played by itself and which was not grating on human ears...   The Great Diapason 8' on the Estey I heard sounded wonderful.... NOT tubby...Perhaps the VIolin Diapason could be moved up an octave become a Swell Principal...   Any other ideas?     This bid opportunity expires April 18 ... it is ebay no. 858326154... it appears that some pipes may be bent, and some even may be missing... The bid offer so far is under $10.00 --- It is a pity that this Estey had to be rescued from a dump.. Maybe someone can rescue it and restore it...   I'm looking forward to your suggestions re: stop changes   Best wishes to all,     Morton Belcher