PipeChat Digest #3004 - Saturday, August 3, 2002
 
the cost of a pipe organ (long)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Cost of new pipe organs
  by "Jim Hailey" <jhaileya10@charter.net>
Re: Cost of Pipe Organs
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: 30 Grand per rank?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
the price of pipe organs
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Pipe organs
  by "LAMAR BOULET" <lmar@hotmail.com>
the cost of a pipe organ
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: New Music
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: New Music
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Prices of New Organs
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: New Music
  by "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@attbi.com>
Re: the cost of a pipe organ (long)
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Re: Cost of pipe organ
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Re: the cost of a pipe organ (long)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: the cost of a pipe organ (long) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:45:29 -0700   RE: Sebastian Gluck's comments   I HAUNTED Organ Clearing House's site and lists for FIVE YEARS; I was in touch with EVERY organ-builder I KNEW in this country, Canada, AND England.   FINALLY a very ordinary garden-variety 11-stop Moller of 1966 came on the market locally. I was ready to settle for that ... no celeste, no Oboe, no Mixture, no Cornet, no Pedal Principal ... because it had PIPES.   My church could AFFORD the biggest Allen Renaissance.   But I was GOING to have PIPES.   We bought the organ for $5K; it cost us another $7K to remove it on such short notice (the organ techs finished on Saturday afternoon, the church was torn down Monday morning), and another $5K to store it for a year, since our building wasn't ready.   OK, at that point we had $17K into it, and NOTHING had been done ... NO releathering, NO updating of the console, NO adding the missing stops needed for an Anglican service, NOTHING. And it CERTAINLY wasn't set up and PLAYING.   Now, this next part is my building committee's fault ... five years ago, I gave them all the specifications for the organ and choir balcony ... load, electrical, acoustical, etc. ... they chose to ignore most of it. So now we had this pipe organ, the church was UNDER CONSTRUCTION, and it HAD to be provided for. That cost us another $30K in consultant's fees and change orders. I had to laugh when they got done ... you could probably park an 18-wheeler in the choir loft ... they REALLY over-engineered it ... but this IS earthquake country, and the building codes REQUIRED it.   OK, so then I started collecting proposals for updating, enlarging and re-installing the Moller.   Well, first of all, the pitman chests won't fit into our chamber ... they're M-chests, and we have a chamber in the top of an A-frame church that needs pyramid chests; and the Moller chests needed releathering anyway.   Ka-CHING!   The console either needs re-leathered or converted to solid-state.   Ka-CHING!   The Moller Trompette is fit only for the melting pot, according to everybody who looks at it. *I* didn't think it sounded BAD in its OLD home, and the acoustics in OUR church are a lot BETTER than the church where the organ was originally, but nobody was willing to add the 16' octave to the existing rank.   Ka-CHING!   We left the blown individual swell shade pneumatics, the old mechanical relays, and the rusted-out rectifier and blower behind (the organ was originally RIGHT on the ocean).   Ka-CHING!   There were only two local builders interested in the job ... one wanted to take the existing Moller pitman chests, gut them, and fit them with electro-mechanical action.   Bid: $187K, which included adding a celeste and an oboe ONLY; nothing else.   The other proposal: 2 new slider chests with electro-pneumatic pulldowns and 2 new unit chests, all the additional stops, solid-state console, using the existing shell.   Bid: $198K.   OK, at that point we would have had a refurbished 1966 Moller organ with the following disposition:   SWELL   16' Gedeckt - 12 pipes 8' Gedeckt 8' Viola 8' Viola Celeste - 49 pipes - new 4' Nachthorn 2' Flautino 8' Trompette 8' Oboe - new   GREAT   8' Principal 8' Hohl Flute 8' Dulciana 4' Octave 2' Fifteenth 8' Trompette (sw) 8' Oboe (sw) Mixture - new Chimes   PEDAL   32' Resultant (16' Bourdon + 10 2/3 Gedeckt, notes 1-12; balance 16' Bourdon playing an octave lower) 16' Bourdon 16' Gedeckt (sw) 8' Octave - new 8' Bourdon - 12 pipes 8' Gedeckt (sw) 4' Choral Bass - 12 pipes - ext. Octave - new 4' Bourdon - 12 pipes 16' Trombone - (sw) - 12 pipes - new 8' Trompette - (sw)   14 stops, counting the mixture as one stop for cost purposes. Cost: $14,285.71 per stop, for a total cost of right at $200K, if I wanted the independent Pedal 4' Choral Bass, which I did ... not including sales tax.   Now ... that was NOT a bid from a "boutique" or "name" builder, nor was it from someone with a large shop and a lot of overhead ... it was from a respectable local shop that builds both tracker and electro-pneumatic organs.   There was nothing WRONG with that bid, except that it didn't fit our CIRCUMSTANCES ... the building we're in now is the INTERIM church ... for 5-10-15-20 years ... who KNOWS how long. The Organ Committee FINALLY decided to design the organ for the MAIN church, since we have the blueprints, and install PART of it in the INTERIM church.   So ... we ended up with 20 stops over two manuals and pedals now, but with windchests and console prepared for 43 stops over three manuals and pedals when the organ's moved to the main church. And it's going to cost us a GOOD deal more than $200K. But the committee (1) wasn't willing to WAIT for a pipe organ and (2) wasn't willing to build TWO pipe organs, one for this building and one for the next building.   If I thought it was hard to get people to bid on refurbishing the Moller, you should have SEEN the responses I got to a two-stage project INCORPORATING the Moller. By the time we reached this point, the local builder was far enough out in contracts that the committee didn't want to wait on him, so I made the rounds again.   We finally got three bids ... while we were considering them, one builder went out of business (!). Of the other two, only one was interested enough to come to see us and take the scales of the Moller pipes. He got the contract.   So that was OUR saga, and it was a rather short one as these things go .... only two years from the purchase of the Moller to the signing of a preliminary design contract, which gets us the blueprints of the organ and a visual for fund-raising. There's a deadline in the design contract for signing the construction contract.   Now, if anyone can tell me what I did WRONG or what I could do to bring this cost of this project DOWN any, I'd be MOST glad to hear.   Regarding Sebastian's comment about organs being available in "mint" condition ... that is MORE possible with TRACKER organs, IF you have the height, depth, and width for a 19th century American organ, and don't require a detached console because you're organist-choirmaster; and indeed a LOT of the scut-work of refurbishing a TRACKER *can* be done by volunteers ... replacing leather nuts, taking the dents out of pipes, wrapping new trackers, cleaning the flue pipes, refinishing the wood-work, etc. ... we moved and partially restored a 2m Koehnken & Grimm in Cincinnati for under $3K in the 1970s ... BUT ... it was a LOCAL move ... the organ builder took the organ down and set up the organ in its new home, and releathered the big reservoir and the feeders .... we did most of the rest.   But electric-action organs are another kettle of fish ... just about anything with leather from before 1960 is living on borrowed time. All the bids *I* got for releathering came close enough to the bids for REPLACING the chests that it was silly to releather.   Now, had this been a wonderful historic Skinner, Kimball, Kilgen, Aeolian, Welte, Wangerin, Austin, Roosevelt, Hook, etc., of COURSE I would have releathered.   I WON'T promise that I wouldn't have added things, if it NEEDED them ... St. Matthew's isn't a museum; it's a working Anglican church.   But it wasn't. It was a run-of-the-mill Moller. And the windchests wouldn't fit ANYWAY.   OK ... comments?   FLAME AWAY! (grin)   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Cost of new pipe organs From: "Jim Hailey" <jhaileya10@charter.net> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:05:38 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C23B39.E631E740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Thank you to all of you that did not beat your chests and scream that =3D everyone else is wrong because their tastes are different, or maybe =3D should I write, more tolerant and actually enjoy playing a digital =3D organ. =3D20   Jim H=3D20       ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C23B39.E631E740 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Thank you to all of you that did not = =3D beat your=3D20 chests and scream that everyone else is wrong&nbsp;because their tastes = =3D are=3D20 different, or maybe should I write, more tolerant and actually enjoy =3D playing a=3D20 digital organ.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Jim H</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C23B39.E631E740--      
(back) Subject: Re: Cost of Pipe Organs From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:48:20 EDT     --part1_1bd.9b12acf.2a7deff4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/3/02 6:46:01 PM Atlantic Daylight Time, rggreene2@shaw.ca writes: > How do I convince that person that a 30 rank > pipe organ is a good value when it could cost TEN TIMES the price of = their > house!!!   People of faith have for centuries financed projects for the church that = were well beyond their own financial ability. I have been told and have seen repeatedly that there are more generous people of modest means than there = are generous wealthy people.   If the church is to survive with building and appointments worthy of God's =   worship, it is going to take leadership on the part of all ministering in = the church. Everyone must be committed to the idea of offering God their = best. It really amazes me to see what some churches of modest means are accomplishing. Those are parishes with committed leadership which = inspires and leads their flock in ways worthy of their calling. One church in particular has an exceptional pre-school program, and outstanding = world-wide mission program, has recently totally refurbished their physical pland AND =   spent over a half-million dollars on ANOTHER new pipe organ (they now have =   two!). When anything happens in that church, their minister is at the = front of the movement, inspiring, evangelizing, encouraging, and working. He is =   one of the best leaders I've ever seen. Add to that he can preach, remember names, and is kind to everyone.   Unfortunately, clergy of this kind are becoming as rare as new pipe = organs. There is a correllation!   Bruce in the Muttestery HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW NEW... please visit   with the Baskerbeagles at <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502 .... need extra money??? visit http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053 enjoy shopping?? visit www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg   --part1_1bd.9b12acf.2a7deff4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 8/3/02 6:46:01 PM Atlantic = Daylight Time, rggreene2@shaw.ca writes: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">How do I convince = that person that a 30 rank<BR> pipe organ is a good value when it could cost TEN TIMES the price of = their<BR> house!!! </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> People of faith have for centuries financed projects for the church that = were well beyond their own financial ability.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been told = and have seen repeatedly that there are more generous people of modest = means than there are generous wealthy people.<BR> <BR> If the church is to survive with building and appointments worthy of God's = worship, it is going to take leadership on the part of all ministering in = the church.&nbsp;&nbsp; Everyone must be committed to the idea of offering = God their best.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It really amazes me to see what some = churches of modest means are accomplishing.&nbsp; Those are parishes with = committed leadership which inspires and leads their flock in ways worthy = of their calling.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; One church in particular has an = exceptional pre-school program, and outstanding world-wide mission = program, has recently totally refurbished their physical pland AND spent = over a half-million dollars on ANOTHER new pipe organ (they now have = two!).&nbsp;&nbsp; When anything happens in that church, their minister is = at the front of the movement, inspiring, evangelizing, encouraging, and = working.&nbsp; He is one of the best leaders I've ever = seen.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Add to that he can preach, remember names, and is = kind <BR> Unfortunately, clergy of this kind are becoming as rare as new pipe = organs.&nbsp; There is a correllation! <BR> <BR> Bruce in the Muttestery&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#ff0080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B>HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW NEW... please = visit</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR> <BR> with the Baskerbeagles at&nbsp; <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502<BR> ....&nbsp; need extra money???&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053<BR> enjoy shopping??&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp; www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg = <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_1bd.9b12acf.2a7deff4_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: 30 Grand per rank? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:58:40 EDT     --part1_31.2aea7c87.2a7df260_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/3/02 11:15:35 PM Atlantic Daylight Time, ContraReed@aol.com writes: > OK, the main reason I'm on this list is that my congregation is going > through > the process of getting a new/rebuilt/pre-owned/etc. organ. At first we = had > > thought of a combination pipe/digital, but it looks like now it will be > mostly pipe, possibly with a digital 32' voice (or two). Could those of =   > you > who have gotten new pipe organ in the past couple of years possibly give = a > price for the organ, and the number of ranks, so the novices amoung us > could > get an "estimate" of the "AVERAGE" price of a rank.   I think the best advice has come from two organ builders on the list. To boil it down:   Turn off your computer. Personally contact several organ builders and = learn about what is necessary to get a fine pipe organ in your church (without digital extensions!). Visit their installations and their shops. Find =   out the truth and stop listening to gossip and unsupported statements = about costs of pipes and comparisons of pipes vs digital.   There are two things that are critical in making a decision about = purchasing, both of which are far too often bypassed: EARS AND BRAINS!!   Get out and do some real, first hand research....     Bruce in the Muttestery HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW NEW... please visit   with the Baskerbeagles at <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502 .... need extra money??? visit http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053 enjoy shopping?? visit www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg   --part1_31.2aea7c87.2a7df260_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 8/3/02 11:15:35 PM Atlantic = Daylight Time, ContraReed@aol.com writes: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">OK, the main = reason I'm on this list is that my congregation is going through <BR> the process of getting a new/rebuilt/pre-owned/etc. organ.&nbsp; At first = we had <BR> thought of a combination pipe/digital, but it looks like now it will be = <BR> mostly pipe, possibly with a digital 32' voice (or two).&nbsp; Could those = of you <BR> who have gotten new pipe organ in the past couple of years possibly give a = <BR> price for the organ, and the number of ranks, so the novices amoung us = could <BR> get an "estimate" of the "AVERAGE" price of a rank.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> I think the best advice has come from two organ builders on the = list.&nbsp; To boil it down:<BR> <BR> Turn off your computer.&nbsp; Personally contact several organ builders = and learn about what is necessary to get a fine pipe organ in your church = (without digital extensions!).&nbsp;&nbsp; Visit their installations and = their shops.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Find out the truth and stop listening to = gossip and unsupported statements about costs of pipes and comparisons of = pipes vs digital.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR> <BR> There are two things that are critical in making a decision about = purchasing, both of which are far too often = bypassed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; EARS AND BRAINS!!<BR> <BR> Get out and do some real, first hand research....<BR> <BR> <BR> Bruce in the Muttestery&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#ff0080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B>HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW = NEW... please visit</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR> <BR> with the Baskerbeagles at&nbsp; <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502<BR> ....&nbsp; need extra money???&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053<BR> enjoy shopping??&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp; www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg = <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_31.2aea7c87.2a7df260_boundary--  
(back) Subject: the price of pipe organs From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:02:20 -0700   OK, Messrs Gluck, Redman and Bertschinger are blaming us poor ignorant organists for "lack of leadership."   Do ANY of you have ANY experience with herding CATS?   That's CONSIDERABLY easier than dealing with church committees.   If you will contact me privately, I'll be happy to tell you which builder(s) are charging $30K per stop.   And, BTW, chewing me a new whatever or ignoring me when I request a tender ISN'T going to get a builder a contract with MY church (grin).   *I* AM the organist/choirmaster and I DO have the final say.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Pipe organs From: "LAMAR BOULET" <lmar@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 03:02:09 +0000   <html><div style=3D'background-color:'><DIV>Yet to be heard&nbsp;, = &nbsp;an Electronic Musical Instrument&nbsp; Company which does not admit = that the Pipe Organ is the better instrument.</DIV> <DIV>How do they admit it?------1.&nbsp; Each one puts forth great effort = to have their instrument imitate the real = thing.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;2.&nbsp; They = do not sample sounds from electronic&nbsp; = instruments.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.&nbsp; Their = instruments&nbsp; need to be replaced about every ten to fifteen years by = their new improved models just as computers,&nbsp; T V sets, </DIV> <DIV>radios etc. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Just some thoughts.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lamar&nbsp; Boulet</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV></div><br = clear=3Dall><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a = href=3D'http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c144??PS=3D47575'>Click = Here</a><br></html>  
(back) Subject: the cost of a pipe organ From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:18:14 -0700   Er, ah, not to take issue with my esteemed friend and colleague Mr. Cornely, but I did just that. I outlined in a previous post the steps I took to secure a pipe organ for our church.   The things I quoted weren't gossip.   OH! I DID leave out two steps: I initially contacted the smaller shops in Canada because of the favorable exchange rate at the time. The bids were all right at $427K US for 20 stops over two manuals and pedals, encased tracker organ, mechanical stop action, attached keydesk, no frills ... 16' Principal in the Pedal, 8' Principal in the Great, 8' Diapason in the Swell, English romantic specification.   The other step was to search for a redundant organ in England, at the urging of an English friend. I contacted the English equivalent of the Organ Clearing House.   The advice I got: forget ANYTHING beyond METAL pipes. Older British organs do NOT transplant well from their cool, damp churches to overheated, dry American churches. In other words, if you like the SOUND of an organ, buy it, but discard the MECHANISM and all the WOODEN pipes (including those WONDERFUL 16' Open Woods) and essentially build a new chassis for the recycled metal pipes and replace the wooden pipes, or the wood will split and crack in the environment of an American church with central heat and air.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: New Music From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 23:15:13 EDT     --part1_9a.2982be81.2a7df641_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Whenever my daughter is asked to register on any site to get information, etc., she uses a fictions name, thus not getting her name on mailing = lists. Maybe this is cheating, but it works. Lee   --part1_9a.2982be81.2a7df641_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Whenever my daughter is = asked to register on any site to get information, etc., she uses a = fictions name, thus not getting her name on mailing lists. &nbsp;Maybe = this is cheating, but it works. &nbsp;Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_9a.2982be81.2a7df641_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: New Music From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 23:16:15 EDT     --part1_29.2b2701d0.2a7df67f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   woops, spellcheck changed the spelling of fictious. Sorry.   --part1_29.2b2701d0.2a7df67f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>woops, spellcheck = changed the spelling of fictious. &nbsp;Sorry.</FONT></HTML>   --part1_29.2b2701d0.2a7df67f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Prices of New Organs From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:27:59 -0500   I guess Jon's Gucci comment summarized my day - we spent it trying to replace the old demon-possessed Sony amplifier/tuner/controller for our stereo/TV/DVD/satellite. I was trying to recapture the moment five years ago when we installed our old stereo in the new house, and I played a Jimi Hendrix CD while working on the computer in the loft. I kept turning around expecting Jimi to be standing there with guitar in hand - it was SO real.   Thomas Wolfe said you can't go home again, and I cannot recapture that time even with four speakers now.   I appreciate that there are builders out there like Jon and Seb. I fully intend to use one in a few years. But tonight I'm listening to Hendrix and avoiding the pot that is boiling over with this thread - just play on through, watch those hooks and slices, and stay out of sand traps.   Learning to burn my own CDs - any suggestions of selections to go on my "greatest organ hits" CD?   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of jon bertschinger   It's kinda like Gucci on the side of the bag...it isn't any better, it just costs more.   My thought on organ pricing.        
(back) Subject: Re: New Music From: "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@attbi.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 23:32:54 -0400       Chicaleee@aol.com wrote: > > woops, spellcheck changed the spelling of fictious. Sorry.   Spelling errors often change the spelling of 'fictions'. 'fractions' is my favorite, followed by 'fractious', which is prevalent in Washington, where the paid electors reside.   Does "Leadership" =3D 'fictitious'?   How about those True 32's? Stan    
(back) Subject: Re: the cost of a pipe organ (long) From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:53:37 -0500   You mentioned that you checked with every builder you knew...did you try to check those you didnt' know...?   I'm not trying to poke at you, but what you went thru is a prime example of other churches and committees. APOBA and AIO both have builder's lists available. Windchests are not that expensive to construct....we do it a lot..good ones too (pitman, unit pouch or electric). Just sorry to hear that you had to settle.   jon bertschinger   p.s. no hard feelings?  
(back) Subject: Re: Cost of pipe organ From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:57:35 -0500   prices for used organs are very low..if you search. and you must also consider the qualities of that instrument, and if it is something that will serve your needs. Several years ago, we purchased a 40rk Austin for about $10,000. Sold the chests, used most of the pipework for a particular installation and saved the congregation bundles of money.   Their old organ we sold back to the original builder, who didn't want it out on the market....he was too ashamed of it.     jon bertschinger  
(back) Subject: Re: the cost of a pipe organ (long) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:28:25 -0700       jon bertschinger wrote: > > You mentioned that you checked with every builder you knew...did > you try to check those you didnt' know...? > > I'm not trying to poke at you, but what you went thru is a prime > example of other churches and committees. APOBA and AIO both > have builder's lists available. Windchests are not that > expensive to construct....we do it a lot..good ones too (pitman, > unit pouch or electric). Just sorry to hear that you had to > settle.   When I said "builders I KNEW", I should have qualified that ... some were personal friends, to be sure ... I've only been in this business for fifty years (grin) ... but mostly they were builders who I knew would be willing to build in the English Romantic style, as befits a high Anglican church with a Victorian High Mass.   I WENT through the APOBA *and* AIO lists, and sent initial inquiries to LOTS of people. Most didn't respond, I think because of the requirement to re-use the Moller pipework. Others that did were 5-7 years out in contracts. THAT'S something I've had GREAT difficulty getting through my committee's heads ... if we sign the construction contract TOMORROW, it'll STILL be 2-5 years before the organ arrives, depending on the builder's schedule. > > jon bertschinger > > p.s. no hard feelings? >   No. I just get a little irritated when SOME folks ASSUME that I don't know anything, and/or that I haven't moved heaven and earth to GET this organ, and spent five YEARS doing research, writing letters, visiting instruments, etc.   Some people, for instance, went BALLISTIC when we finally chose the builder we chose (Holtkamp) ...   "you shouldn't go to Holtkamp for a romantic organ" ...   Wll, what they perhaps DON'T know is that there are GORGEOUS romantic Holtkamps all OVER Cleveland, and there's a 3m French Romantic Holtkamp TRACKER out HERE in La Mesa Methodist Church down in San Diego.   I am satisfied that Chris Holtkamp and I can work together without KILLING one another (grin), and THAT'S important. I TRUST him ... as a matter of fact, I told him I'm going to take a vacation when he comes to install the organ ... if he needs me, he can call me; but I'm going to stay OUT of his hair.   Cheers,   Bud