PipeChat Digest #3005 - Sunday, August 4, 2002
 
Re: Cost of new pipe organs
  by "Panning" <jpanning@cal-net.net>
cost of organs
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Cost of new pipe organs
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: Pipe organs /electronic organs
  by "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@attbi.com>
Re: the cost of a pipe organ (long)
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02
  by "Ray Ahrens" <Ray_Ahrens@msn.com>
OHS Picture Gallery
  by "TRAVIS EVANS" <tevansmo@prodigy.net>
RE: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
Re: Cost of new pipe organs
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Cost of new pipe organs From: "Panning" <jpanning@cal-net.net> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 23:24:20 -0500   Jon Bertschinger wrote:   >What's more, I'm surprised that Churches and people are >willing to pay what some companies are charging...just because of >a "name"? > >It's kinda like Gucci on the side of the bag...it isn't any >better, it just costs more.     Do you really mean to say that all pipe organs built are of equal quality but that some builders have figured out how to charge much more for an essentially similar product?   I'm afraid I know altogether too many $7,000 to $10,000 per stop organs that were a rip-off. On the other hand, I have seen and heard $25,000 per stop organs that are a bargain.   It isn't how much you pay, it's what you get for the money you spend.   John A. Panning Lake City, Iowa   By the way, according to US Census figures http://www.census.gov/const/uspriceann.pdf, the average sale price for a home in the United States in 2001 was $213,200.00; the median was $174,600.00.  
(back) Subject: cost of organs From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:48:59 -0700   Here's another aspect ... my committee is made up of portfolio managers, engineers, and high-end CEOs ... they want to see D & B ratings and credit references.   In the course of our deliberations, one of our bidders went out of BUSINESS.   They're simply not going to look at most small local operations unless they have a VERY long and VERY stable track record, and money in the bank. So, OK, yeah, you could say that they're paying for the name, or the reputation, or whatever.   It's a vicious circle, and I understand that ... churches are not going to award MAJOR contracts to small local builders until they have a successful track record; and they can't build a successful track record until SOMEBODY awards them some MAJOR contracts.   Sorry, I have to agree with whoever said that MOST $7K-per-whatever organs are less than successful/durable/beautiful/whatever.   How many people lost their organ funds when Aeolian-Skinner, Moller, and Schlicker went under? And THOSE were SUPPOSED to be old, stable companies (well, we sorta knew about Schlicker, but they were running double-truck ads right up to the bitter end).   It's a crap shoot at BEST, AND with somebody else's MONEY.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Cost of new pipe organs From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 18:41:37 -0400     On Sat, 03 Aug 2002 06:29:51 -0400 Carol Scott <dclscott@skyenet.net> writes: > Thanks! My church is planning to rebuild the sanctuary within the > next > few years, and it had just occurred to me that I should have figures > like > this in mind, just in case, though I think they're unlikely to opt > for > pipes. The comparison to the cost of a car or house is great, too. > > Carol Scott   Dear Carol and list,   I will again restate my theory on the cost of pipe organs to congregations that really want them !   After looking at many different congregations of differing sizes and affiliations, I have arrived at a basic "formula" that I think should work for MOST congregations.   In planning for an organ, use the cost structure of $1,000 PER MEMBER. For RC and other churches that have multiple services, this number might even be substantially less.   The primary difference between a pipe organ and an electronic (to an accountant) is that the pipe organ is a CAPITAL INVESTMENT and the electronic is a BUDGET EXPENSE.   By treating the purchase of a pipe organ as a CAPITAL item, you can "sell" the idea of doing a formal "Capital Campaign" to acquire the necessary funds.   Many of the denominations have special teams of advisors to assist individual churches in conducting Capital Campaigns and they know how to do it !   Of course a major donation to the fund is the best way to "kick off" any fund raising campaign, but it is not totally necessary. To raise the $ 1000/per member over a 6 year period the per member "assessment" would only be $3.25 per week ! If there were any major gifts, this would, of course, lower this number.   Don't want to wait 6 years to raise the money ? Many denominations have a loan program to individual congregations at very attractive interest rates. Since the Pipe Organ is considered a CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT they will loan money for this purpose.   If your congregation can gather SOME "Organ funds" in advance, the assessments will be lower and the organ contract could be signed within a couple of years.   If your church is considering a new organ ( or major rebuilding) and you would like more information, please feel free to contact me.     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organs /electronic organs From: "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@attbi.com> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 00:49:56 -0400   They are Frauds and Watch their Businesses Fail. One by one.   Who's the First to Go?   Stan   The installations that I've heard will welcome guitars into Sanctuaries, and make the Pipe Organ ; the KING OF INSTUMENTS-   into a pitiful cliche through speakers surrouding their 'worship space'.   Even the 'best' ain't good 'nuff. They sound 'fake'.   Just LISTEN Critically to these phony 'pipe organs'.   I know that some of you guys play 'em. and some of you guys sell 'em.   "Everybody is entitled to make a buck"   I'd take a Hammond and not a pale imitation of a Hammond, rather than these "Pretenders to The Throne" of the King of Instruments.     LAMAR BOULET wrote: > > Yet to be heard , an Electronic Musical Instrument Company which does = not > admit that the Pipe Organ is the better instrument. > How do they admit it?------1. Each one puts forth great effort to have > their instrument imitate the real thing. 2. They do not sample > sounds from electronic instruments. 3. Their instruments need = to be > replaced about every ten to fifteen years by their new improved models = just > as computers, T V sets, > radios etc. >    
(back) Subject: Re: the cost of a pipe organ (long) From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 00:50:30 EDT   Dear Bud:   I hope this sinks in, because you have expressed the gospel truth. In the long run, it would be cheaper to buy brand new chests than to go to the trouble of rebuilding old ones. Using an old console shell really makes no sense as it is the least expensive part of the whole. So you have the pipes left. Rebuilding old regulators, rerouting and rebuilding wind lines can be as expensive as new ones made to fit. Forget flexhaust except for 6" to 1' tie ins. If making additions the old blower will prove inadequate very quickly same with the original reservoir. Need to raise windpressure for a bigger room? New makes sense.   The Seattle Willis of three manuals and 30 or so ranks was on the cusp of of being too soft for it's new venue, 9,000 miles from it's original home. The acoustics weren't very alive either. I'm sure tens perhaps hundreds of thousands were spent to preserve it. I find that commendable, but perhaps an all new organ would have filled the bill much better voiced and scaled for the building. But we were told time and time again this was a "CHEAP" way to get into a pipe organ, but obviously far from practical "TRUTH"!   This Month a home in Roanoake, VA is for sale, pipe organ parts included, or buy separately. Obviously this guy's wife had had it, set her foot down or delivered divorce papers. At any rate he's not taking the collected = organ parts with him. No it's not playing and probably never will. OBTW the = organ construction books go with the organ parts. Guys who successfully = accomplish this goal indeed have as much money as brains, and the organbuilding background to sustain them. This is an art over a millenium old that is passed down to one person at a time. That's why it's so special. You have = to fully understand engineering, math, metalurgy, glues, woods, leathers, tanning, and all the rest. On top of that scaling, voicing, wind, and wind output, windline size, blower size, casework, tools, tracker runs, or Electrical wireing depending on which you chose. We're not through yet, ACCOUSTICS, room size ratios etc.   My advice get a professional, and pay within reason what he asks, and let him do all the work. Even at that, it may turn out less than perfect, but you have a much better chance of success too. They make it look Soooooo eeeeesey. take it from me it surely is not. I have worked in an organ factory briefly. You can't build an organ using books, the practical way to learn to do this is to learn how from a professional, and this takes on the job training and a good deal of time. There are = certainly no short cuts. or 90 day wonders in this business as we all well know. Is it impossible to learn? NO, but it takes a lifetime after learning the basics as every job has a different challenge to be worked out by the MASTER BUILDER. In effect the organ job is a learning experience in and of itself, after you master the basics. No two are ever alike, never.   I defy anyone to tear this kind of logic apart, I don't think you can. = Organ builders help each other out occasionally, so you won't find serious rock throwing here. It's a collective wisdom to problem solving, and every old builder who goes on to his MAKER leaves a perceptible hole in the fabric of knowledge.   I hope this gets some real thinking going.   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02 From: "Ray Ahrens" <Ray_Ahrens@msn.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 23:50:19 -0500     ------=3D_NextPart_001_0000_01C23B48.869E4A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   No, I'm not afraid of digitals. I would rather change diapers than go = th=3D ru yet another round of the pipes/digital debate.   ----- Original Message ----- From: G. Deboer Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 2:54 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02   Why the no comment bit, are you afraid of the digitals ? In many instances a well designed digital is superior to a pipe organ = whe=3D n placed in the proper acoustical environment.   ----- Original Message ----- =3D20 From: Ray Ahrens =3D20 To: PipeChat =3D20 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02     Please please please let Lynn's message pass without comment!!!!   ----- Original Message ----- From: l2nn@juno.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 4:22 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02   New electronic organs are being quoted and bought at churches which cannot afford a new pipe organ. I don't think Bach would have turned down a 4 manual Renaissance Allen. I know most organists look down on digitals but I think they are the wave of the future.   Lynn Finegan San Francisco Bay area   On Sat, 3 Aug 2002 04:00:01 -0500 "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> writes: > PipeChat Digest #3000 - Saturday, August 3, 2002 > =3D20 > Jeff's question about cost > by <quilisma@socal.rr.com> > =3D20 > =3D20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > =3D20 > Subject: Jeff's question about cost > From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> > Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:53:15 -0700 > =3D20 > =3D20 > =3D20 > Jeff White wrote: > > =3D20 > > > It seems to me that the entire business ... organ-playing, =3D20 > pipe-organ > > > building ... is teetering on the brink of extinction. > > =3D20 > > I disagree, and I think a trend reversal may be on its way. =3D20 > Unfortunately, > > it may take a decade or two. > > =3D20 > > > There were LESS than ONE HUNDRED new pipe organs reported in =3D20 > the > > > journals last year. > > =3D20 > > Could this possibly be because of cost? I'm really wondering, =3D20 > thinking on > > this statement. The church I played for left 3 ranks prepared =3D20 > because of > > the new building and funds growing short. This was in 1986. =3D20 > Today, I > > wonder how many parishes can afford it. I know, I know, if it's to = =3D20 > be done, > > there's a way, but....sometimes practicality opts for other things = =3D20 > other > > than the organ, which is seen more as a luxury. How sad! > > =3D20 > > Jeff > > =3D20 > =3D20 > Adjusted for inflation, the cost of pipe organs has actually risen =3D20 > very > little, if any, since the 1950s. =3D20 > =3D20 > These are rough figures from memory, so they may be slightly off. > =3D20 > In the 1950s, when Aeolian-Skinner reigned as the "house" builder =3D20 > for > the Episcopal church, a rank of A-S pipes cost as much as a Buick > automobile ... $1500-$2000. =3D20 > =3D20 > The average-size 3m Aeolian-Skinner cost as much as a large three =3D20 > or > four bedroom house ... $45K-$60K. > =3D20 > In 2002, a rank of pipes runs anywhere from $10K t0 $30K, depending = =3D20 > on > the rank and the builder; an organ of the same size as the one =3D20 > above > (approx. 30 ranks) can cost anywhere from $300K to $900K. > =3D20 > $10K won't buy you much of a car today; Orange County CA is an =3D20 > expensive > area, but $300K is the average cost of a three-bedroom house. > =3D20 > If anything, the price of pipe organs has gone DOWN slightly because = =3D20 > the > big houses with their factories and large overheads are mostly gone = =3D20 > ... > the ones who have survived have scaled back accordingly. > =3D20 > Values and priorities have to be taken into account as well ... in =3D20 > my > own parish, which is not poor, SOME of the people (who live in > multi-million-dollar homes) go into cardiac ARREST at the IDEA of > spending $300K-$500K for a pipe organ for their CHURCH. =3D20 > =3D20 > A broken-down 30-year-old electronic sounds just FINE to them, =3D20 > except > when it quits in the middle of Mass. Someone actually suggested we =3D20 > buy > ANOTHER 30-year-old electronic of the same model so we'd have a =3D20 > ready > supply of PARTS. > =3D20 > Fortunately, the preliminary design contract for the pipe organ is > signed. > =3D20 > Cheers, > =3D20 > Bud > =3D20 > =3D20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > End of PipeChat Digest > =3D20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related =3D20 > topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > =3D20 > =3D20   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   ------=3D_NextPart_001_0000_01C23B48.869E4A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><BODY BGCOLOR=3D3D"#ffffff" STYLE=3D3D"font:10pt verdana; = border:none;b=3D ackground-color:#ffffff; "><DIV>No, I'm not afraid of digitals.&nbsp; I = w=3D ould rather change diapers than go thru yet another round of the = pipes/di=3D gital debate.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE = style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT:=3D 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px = solid=3D ; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original = Mess=3D age -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; = COLO=3D R: black"><B>From:</B> G. Deboer</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt = Arial"><B=3D >Sent:</B> Saturday, August 03, 2002 2:54 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: = 10=3D pt Arial"><B>To:</B> PipeChat</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt = Arial"><B>Su=3D bject:</B> Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> = <=3D META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> = <D=3D IV><FONT face=3D3DArial>Why the no comment bit, are you afraid of the = digit=3D als ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial>In many instances a well = desig=3D ned digital is superior to&nbsp;a pipe organ when placed in the proper = ac=3D oustical environment.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT = face=3D3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;<=3D /DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5p=3D x; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> = =3D <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV = =3D style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>Fro=3D m:</B> <A title=3D3DRay_Ahrens@msn.com = href=3D3D"mailto:Ray_Ahrens@msn.com">R=3D ay Ahrens</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3D3D=3D pipechat@pipechat.org href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">PipeChat</A> = =3D </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 03, = =3D 2002 12:48 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: = P=3D ipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Please please = =3D please&nbsp; let Lynn's message pass without comment!!!!</DIV> = <DIV>&nbsp=3D ;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = MARGI=3D N-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV = sty=3D le=3D3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV = style=3D3D"=3D BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> <A = href=3D =3D3D"mailto:l2nn@juno.com">l2nn@juno.com</A></DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: = 10p=3D t Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 03, 2002 4:22 AM</DIV> <DIV = style=3D3D=3D "FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> <A = href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pi=3D pechat@pipechat.org</A></DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt = Arial"><B>Subject:=3D </B> Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>New = elec=3D tronic organs are being quoted and bought at churches which<BR>cannot = aff=3D ord a new pipe organ.&nbsp; I don't think Bach would have turned<BR>down =3D a 4 manual Renaissance Allen.&nbsp; I know most organists look down = on<BR=3D >digitals but I think they are the wave of the future.<BR><BR>Lynn = Finega=3D n<BR>San Francisco Bay area<BR><BR>On Sat, 3 Aug 2002 04:00:01 -0500 = "Pip=3D eChat" &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org&gt;<BR>writes:<BR>&gt; PipeChat Digest = #=3D 3000 - Saturday, August 3, 2002<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Jeff's = quest=3D ion about = cost<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=3D sp;&nbsp; by &lt;quilisma@socal.rr.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; = ----=3D ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt= =3D ; <BR>&gt; Subject: Jeff's question about cost<BR>&gt; From: = &lt;quilisma=3D @socal.rr.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:53:15 -0700<BR>&gt; = <=3D BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jeff White wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; = &g=3D t; It seems to me that the entire business ... organ-playing, <BR>&gt; = pi=3D pe-organ<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; building ... is teetering on the brink of = exti=3D nction.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I disagree, and I think a trend = revers=3D al may be on its way.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Unfortunately,<BR>&gt; &gt; it may = t=3D ake a decade or two.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; There were LESS = than=3D ONE HUNDRED new pipe organs reported in <BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; = j=3D ournals last year.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Could this possibly be = beca=3D use of cost?&nbsp; I'm really wondering, <BR>&gt; thinking on<BR>&gt; = &gt=3D ; this statement.&nbsp; The church I played for left 3 ranks prepared = <BR=3D >&gt; because of<BR>&gt; &gt; the new building and funds growing = short.&n=3D bsp; This was in 1986.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Today, I<BR>&gt; &gt; wonder how = ma=3D ny parishes can afford it. I know, I know, if it's to <BR>&gt; be = done,<B=3D R>&gt; &gt; there's a way, but....sometimes practicality opts for other = t=3D hings <BR>&gt; other<BR>&gt; &gt; than the organ, which is seen more as = a=3D luxury.&nbsp; How sad!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Jeff<BR>&gt; &gt; = <BR>=3D &gt; <BR>&gt; Adjusted for inflation, the cost of pipe organs has = actuall=3D y risen <BR>&gt; very<BR>&gt; little, if any, since the 1950s. <BR>&gt; = <=3D BR>&gt; These are rough figures from memory, so they may be slightly = off.=3D <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In the 1950s, when Aeolian-Skinner reigned as the = "hous=3D e" builder <BR>&gt; for<BR>&gt; the Episcopal church, a rank of A-S = pipes=3D cost as much as a Buick<BR>&gt; automobile ... $1500-$2000. <BR>&gt; = <BR=3D >&gt; The average-size 3m Aeolian-Skinner cost as much as a large three = <=3D BR>&gt; or<BR>&gt; four bedroom house ... $45K-$60K.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In = =3D 2002, a rank of pipes runs anywhere from $10K t0 $30K, depending = <BR>&gt;=3D on<BR>&gt; the rank and the builder; an organ of the same size as the = on=3D e <BR>&gt; above<BR>&gt; (approx. 30 ranks) can cost anywhere from $300K = =3D to $900K.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; $10K won't buy you much of a car today; = Orange=3D County CA is an <BR>&gt; expensive<BR>&gt; area, but $300K is the = averag=3D e cost of a three-bedroom house.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If anything, the price = =3D of pipe organs has gone DOWN slightly because <BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; big = ho=3D uses with their factories and large overheads are mostly gone <BR>&gt; = ..=3D ..<BR>&gt; the ones who have survived have scaled back = accordingly.<BR>&gt=3D ; <BR>&gt; Values and priorities have to be taken into account as well = ..=3D .. in <BR>&gt; my<BR>&gt; own parish, which is not poor, SOME of the = peopl=3D e (who live in<BR>&gt; multi-million-dollar homes) go into cardiac = ARREST=3D at the IDEA of<BR>&gt; spending $300K-$500K for a pipe organ for their = C=3D HURCH. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A broken-down 30-year-old electronic sounds = just=3D FINE to them, <BR>&gt; except<BR>&gt; when it quits in the middle of = Mas=3D s. Someone actually suggested we <BR>&gt; buy<BR>&gt; ANOTHER = 30-year-old=3D electronic of the same model so we'd have a <BR>&gt; ready<BR>&gt; = suppl=3D y of PARTS.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Fortunately, the preliminary design = contract=3D for the pipe organ is<BR>&gt; signed.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cheers,<BR>&gt; = <=3D BR>&gt; Bud<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -----------------------------------=3D -----------------------------------<BR>&gt; End of PipeChat = Digest<BR>&gt=3D ; <BR>&gt; "Pipe Up and Be Heard!"<BR>&gt; PipeChat:&nbsp; A&nbsp; = discus=3D sion List for pipe/digital organs &amp; related <BR>&gt; topics<BR>&gt; = H=3D OMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org<BR>&gt; List: = mailto:pipechat@pipechat.=3D org<BR>&gt; Administration:&nbsp; mailto:admin@pipechat.org<BR>&gt; = Subsc=3D ribe/Unsubscribe:&nbsp; mailto:requests@pipechat.org<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; = <BR=3D ><BR>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!"<BR>PipeChat:&nbsp; A&nbsp; discussion List = f=3D or pipe/digital organs &amp; related topics<BR>HOMEPAGE : = http://www.pipe=3D chat.org<BR>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org<BR>Administration:&nbsp; = m=3D ailto:admin@pipechat.org<BR>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:&nbsp; = mailto:requests@=3D pipechat.org<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_001_0000_01C23B48.869E4A80--  
(back) Subject: OHS Picture Gallery From: "TRAVIS EVANS" <tevansmo@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:07:56 -0700 (PDT)   --0-1368856503-1028437676=3D:55062 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii     Well Its DONE!! Well, almost. There are 165 photos now in the gallery, = spent most of Saturday evening scanning the pictures at the office (faster = computer). On Sunday afternoon I will reorganize them in order that we = saw them. I hope you all enjoy, I do intend to label each picture of = where it was taken. But at least they are all up for you to hopefully = enjoy.   Travis   --0-1368856503-1028437676=3D:55062 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii   <P>Well Its DONE!!&nbsp; Well, almost.&nbsp; There are 165 photos now in = the gallery, spent most of Saturday evening scanning the pictures at the = office (faster computer).&nbsp; On Sunday afternoon I will reorganize them = in order that we saw them.&nbsp; I hope you all enjoy, I do intend to = label each picture of where it was taken.&nbsp; But at least they are all = up for you to hopefully enjoy.</P> <P>Travis</P> --0-1368856503-1028437676=3D:55062--  
(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02 From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 00:14:54 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0028_01C23B4B.F5A34860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   No, I'm not afraid of digitals. I would rather change diapers than go = thru yet another round of the pipes/digital debate.   I'm with Ray....how about we all agree to disagree? That makes life = simple. Or, yet another possibility: Pipes. Digital. They both exist. Live = with it. :-)   Jeff     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0028_01C23B4B.F5A34860 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4728.2300" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY=3D20 style=3D3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; FONT: 10pt = =3D verdana; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; =3D BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=3D20 bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV>No, I'm not afraid of digitals.&nbsp; I would rather change diapers = =3D than go=3D20 thru yet another round of the pipes/digital debate.<SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D600121405-04082002><FONT =3D face=3D3Dverdana>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D600121405-04082002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D600121405-04082002>I'm with Ray....how about we all = =3D agree to=3D20 disagree?&nbsp; That&nbsp;makes life simple.&nbsp; Or, yet another=3D20 possibility:&nbsp; Pipes.&nbsp; Digital.&nbsp; They both exist.&nbsp; =3D Live with=3D20 it.&nbsp; :-)</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D600121405-04082002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D600121405-04082002>Jeff</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D600121405-04082002>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0028_01C23B4B.F5A34860--    
(back) Subject: Re: Cost of new pipe organs From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 07:13:13 +0000   Stan et al. I don't know if the CD you received was the same as the one I recently received, but probably not. (I promised myself I would not get involved = yet again in another pipe v digital contest, which has been totally overdone, roasted, toasted and burnt to death in the past couple of months - but I cannot sit here without replying!) Phoenix organs sent me a CD played by Stephen Hamill on a 4 manual temporarily installed in an Irish Church. The =   playing was excelent and the sound most impressive, though a bit on the English Cathedral type of tone - I prefer a French reed chorus, though I = am sure this would be available on demand. On my Viscount I have now got the MIDI working and this gives me at least another 200 sounds - including Trompettes en Chamade, Trompettes au gratin, 32' Bombarde en croute, = silent bagpipes etc. - so I do not doubt that these could be built into a proprietary electronic instrument. There is room for both - and give me a good pipe organ anyday = - but let's leave this topic for another year or two can't we? My mail box = was overloaded overnight! 70 new emails! John Foss   _________________________________________________________________ Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com