PipeChat Digest #3012 - Tuesday, August 6, 2002
 
combo organs
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: recycling pipes
  by "Panning" <jpanning@cal-net.net>
What is average cost per rk average organ?
  by "Randy Terry" <williamransomejr@yahoo.com>
Re: the cost of a pipe organ (long)
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Re: recycling M=F6ller pipes
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
 

(back) Subject: combo organs From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 20:37:30 -0500   While we prefer all pipe organs, we've done several very successful combo organs. One being a 3m/p at West Hills Presbyterian Church, Omaha, NE. Another one being smaller, and with a pipe antiphonal at Grace Lutheran (ELCA), Omaha, NE.   West Hills did not have the floor space for the amount of organ that they really needed to support their music program. The original organ we began with was 8rk Wicks. From there we added some pipe work and quite a bit of digital voices. The digital voices were not just in the pedal either. The Great IV Fourniture is digital, and works well. These are not off the shelf voices, but from samples of our own pipe organs, making an excellent match. Also the digital system has temperature sensing, to allow the digital voices to change in pitch WITH the pipes.   The situation at Grace Church was similar, but with a smaller budget, they have a nice 2 stop antiphonal in the balcony to use. Some of the digital voices at Grace were off unison stops, so that correct tuning/temperament would be achieved (equal temp.). Again here also are custom matched voices with temperature sensing pitch control.   As to the use of digital with pipe, I'd rather not, but sometimes you do what you have to do.   Sometime back at an A.I.O. convention in Williamsburg, I sat and listened to a bunch of hypocrites pounding fists on the table during a panel discussion, saying that there is NO ROOM in the industry for digital "stuff". Later in pvt, one of the discussion leaders confessed to myself and a few others, that had they not included some digital, they would have lost a fairly sizable contract.   We may not want to admit to some things in life, but sometimes you do what is "requested" to stay in business.   Hope no one's offended by my comments....but if you are....wake up and smell the morning sanka.   jon bertschinger   my own personal feelings on the issue, so I won't post the company name.  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02 From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 22:41:02 EDT     --part1_1ab.6456215.2a80913e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/4/02 12:49:13 PM Atlantic Daylight Time, Chicaleee@aol.com writes: > However, some churches just will not invest in a pipe organ   Not without encouragement, good examples of what can be done, and inspired =   leadership from all who CAN lead. Even the smallest church can have a = pipe organ if they want it. But it takes prayer, inspiration, leadership and committment. The first thing that needs to be done is to give them real facts about the possibilities and not excused for believing that they = can't. That is denying God's power.   Bruce in the Muttestery HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW NEW... please visit   with the Baskerbeagles at <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502 .... need extra money??? visit http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053 enjoy shopping?? visit www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg   --part1_1ab.6456215.2a80913e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 8/4/02 12:49:13 PM Atlantic = Daylight Time, Chicaleee@aol.com writes: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">However, some = churches just will not invest in a pipe organ</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0">Not without = encouragement, good examples of what can be done, and inspired leadership = from all who CAN lead.&nbsp;&nbsp; Even the smallest church can have a = pipe organ if they want it.&nbsp; But it takes prayer, inspiration, = leadership and committment.&nbsp;&nbsp; The first thing that needs to be = done is to give them real facts about the possibilities and not excused = for believing that they can't.&nbsp;&nbsp; That is denying God's = power.<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Bruce in the = Muttestery&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#ff0080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B>HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW = NEW... please visit</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR> <BR> with the Baskerbeagles at&nbsp; <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502<BR> ....&nbsp; need extra money???&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053<BR> enjoy shopping??&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp; www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg = <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_1ab.6456215.2a80913e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02 From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 22:48:42 EDT     --part1_6f.2b9ac088.2a80930a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/4/02 6:22:17 PM Atlantic Daylight Time, TheShieling@xtra.co.nz writes: > Someone used the word "electroid" the other day on the List. I hadn't = heard > that one before, but it's a wonderful expression. Obviously a makeover = from > the word "android" - something that looks fairly human, and sounds = fairly > human, and can act fairly human, but just isn't and never can be.   Thank you.... I'd like for my little word to catch on. However, it's derived from a human affliction which likens the "thing" to a pain in the..... well, you get the picture! ;-)   Bruce in the Muttestery HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW NEW... please visit   with the Baskerbeagles at <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502 .... need extra money??? visit http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053 enjoy shopping?? visit www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg   --part1_6f.2b9ac088.2a80930a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 8/4/02 6:22:17 PM Atlantic = Daylight Time, TheShieling@xtra.co.nz writes: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Someone used the = word "electroid" the other day on the List. I hadn't heard<BR> that one before, but it's a wonderful expression. Obviously a makeover = from<BR> the word "android" - something that looks fairly human, and sounds = fairly<BR> human, and can act fairly human, but just isn't and never can = be.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> Thank you....&nbsp; I'd like for my little word to catch on.&nbsp; = However, it's derived from a human affliction which likens the "thing" to = a pain in the.....&nbsp;&nbsp; well, you get the picture!&nbsp;&nbsp; = ;-)<BR> <BR> Bruce in the Muttestery&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#ff0080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B>HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW = NEW... please visit</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR> <BR> with the Baskerbeagles at&nbsp; <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502<BR> ....&nbsp; need extra money???&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053<BR> enjoy shopping??&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp; www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg = <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_6f.2b9ac088.2a80930a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3000 - 08/03/02 From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 23:00:09 EDT     --part1_74.20e1258a.2a8095b9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/4/02 11:12:53 PM Atlantic Daylight Time, gdeboer@bluemarble.net writes: > But what is a church to do with about 400 members showing up every = Sunday in > a large sanctuary ? A 60 stop pipe organ at 20K per stop is out of the > question.   First of all, I don't think a church with 400 members needs a 60 stop = organ (of any kind). The needs of the parish need to be more realistic. = Every organ does not "need" to play "all of the literature." If a parish that size cannot afford a pipe organ there is something very wrong with the leadership. I've seen smaller parishes with good leadership accomplish = much more.   Bruce in the Muttestery HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW NEW... please visit   with the Baskerbeagles at <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502 .... need extra money??? visit http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053 enjoy shopping?? visit www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg   --part1_74.20e1258a.2a8095b9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 8/4/02 11:12:53 PM Atlantic = Daylight Time, gdeboer@bluemarble.net writes: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">But what is a = church to do with about 400 members showing up every Sunday in<BR> a large sanctuary ?&nbsp; A 60 stop pipe organ at 20K per stop is out of = the<BR> question. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> First of all, I don't think a church with 400 members needs a 60 stop = organ (of any kind).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The needs of the parish need to be = more realistic.&nbsp;&nbsp; Every organ does not "need" to play "all of = the literature."&nbsp;&nbsp; If a parish that size cannot afford a pipe = organ there is something very wrong with the leadership.&nbsp;&nbsp; I've = seen smaller parishes with good leadership accomplish much more.<BR> <BR> Bruce in the Muttestery&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#ff0080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B>HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW = NEW... please visit</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR> <BR> with the Baskerbeagles at&nbsp; <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502<BR> ....&nbsp; need extra money???&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053<BR> enjoy shopping??&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp; www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg = <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_74.20e1258a.2a8095b9_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: recycling pipes From: "Panning" <jpanning@cal-net.net> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 22:22:45 -0500   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1183518264=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" ; format=3D"flowed"   Bud wrote:   >Maybe some of the builders can address the economic issue ... I have >been told over the years that re-using pipes, IF they could be revoiced, >rescaled, etc., SHOULD run anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of new >pipes. > >In my experience, SOME builders are GENIUSES at recycling pipes ... >oddly enough, Hermann Schlicker and Walter Holtkamp Sr. were two of them   I certainly wouldn't say that I'm a genius at re-using old pipes, but I have been responsible for a number of organs that used substantial amounts of "previously enjoyed" pipework, including our current project north of Bud in downtown L.A.   Pipes to be reused almost always have to be shipped to the shop, which means sending a man and a truck to get them, and maybe hiring people locally to help if volunteers can't be found. Once in the shop, they must be repaired, washed and fitted with new tuning slides (or stoppers repacked, holes patched, etc. for wood pipes). Rarely are they perfectly suited for their new use, so they will probably be rescaled (i.e., new pipes will be made to increase the scale of the stop). Sometimes new languids are necessary, or other major work.   Of course, re-used pipes must be voiced, just like a newly-made stop, and the tonal finishing will take the same amount of time as a new stop.   Some pipes made in the 1960s and '70s, though they may sound unvoiced (no nicking, tiny cutup), don't prove to be very successful with a more robust voicing treatment: the languids are too thin and their bevels are too obtuse for proper speech with higher cutups; walls are too thin; material is wrong (spotted metal for bourdons, etc.). The increase in voicing time to overcome these problems (if it's even possible) offsets any material/labor savings associated with new pipes.   In the end, we have never found a cost savings, unless we were reusing something huge like an Open Wood or Violone that was essentially perfect for its new use from the get-go. In many cases, pipes are retained for sentimental reasons, and any cost savings is secondary.   John A. Panning Lake City, Iowa --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1183518264=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii"   <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 } --></style><title>Re: recycling pipes</title></head><body> <div>Bud wrote:</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>Maybe some of the builders can address the economic issue ... I have</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>been told over the years that re-using pipes, IF they could be revoiced,</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>rescaled, etc., SHOULD run anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of new</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>pipes.</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite><br></blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>In my experience, SOME builders are GENIUSES at recycling pipes ...</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>oddly enough, Hermann Schlicker and Walter Holtkamp Sr. were two of them</blockquote> <div><b><br></b></div> <div>I certainly wouldn't say that I'm a genius at re-using old pipes, but I have been responsible for a number of organs that used substantial amounts of &quot;previously enjoyed&quot; pipework, including our current project north of Bud in downtown L.A.</div> <div><br></div> <div>Pipes to be reused almost always have to be shipped to the shop, which means sending a man and a truck to get them, and maybe hiring people locally to help if volunteers can't be found. Once in the shop, they must be repaired, washed and fitted with new tuning slides (or stoppers repacked, holes patched, etc. for wood pipes). Rarely are they perfectly suited for their new use, so they will probably be rescaled (i.e., new pipes will be made to increase the scale of the stop). Sometimes new languids are necessary, or other major work.</div> <div><br></div> <div>Of course, re-used pipes must be voiced, just like a newly-made stop, and the tonal finishing will take the same amount of time as a new stop.</div> <div><br></div> <div>Some pipes made in the 1960s and '70s, though they may sound unvoiced (no nicking, tiny cutup), don't prove to be very successful with a more robust voicing treatment: the languids are too thin and their bevels are too obtuse for proper speech with higher cutups; walls are too thin; material is wrong (spotted metal for bourdons, etc.). The increase in voicing time to overcome these problems (if it's even possible) offsets any material/labor savings associated with new pipes.</div> <div><br></div> <div>In the end, we have never found a cost savings, unless we were reusing something huge like an Open Wood or Violone that was essentially perfect for its new use from the get-go. In many cases, pipes are retained for sentimental reasons, and any cost savings is secondary.</div> <div><br></div> <div>John A. Panning</div> <div>Lake City, Iowa</div> </body> </html> --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1183518264=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D--  
(back) Subject: What is average cost per rk average organ? From: "Randy Terry" <williamransomejr@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 22:23:39 -0700 (PDT)   I have been following the thread in hopes of finding out the range of cost = per rank/stop in a well made new organ by a competent average builder, perhaps using = some revoiced and/or vintage pipes, and perhaps an old console rebuilt with modern = components and control system. I need to put an actual worth for the vestry as well as = replacement cost for the insturance company.         =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Randy Terry The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: the cost of a pipe organ (long) From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 01:26:35 EDT     --part1_48.f7f09dd.2a80b80b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Richard and List Members:   If I may jump into this question. I think that most major builders are = more than willing to look at possible use of extant pipework. The problem is = that often, as is the case with your church, the only thing usable are the = pipes themselves. Hence the savings of the reuse of even 40 ranks of good pipes =   might amount to only $25-35,000. The pipes will have to be transported to =   the builders shop where they can be cleaned, repaired as may be needed, = and wit to the new chests. They will also have to go on the voicing machine = to be regulated for their proper fit in the new scheme of things.   The reuse of old pipes can be and sometimes is a good thing. Just do not expect to save truckloads of money by doing it.   Bill   --part1_48.f7f09dd.2a80b80b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3>Hi Richard and List = Members:<BR> <BR> If I may jump into this question.&nbsp; I think that most major builders = are more than willing to look at possible use of extant pipework.&nbsp; = The problem is that often, as is the case with your church, the only thing = usable are the pipes themselves.&nbsp; Hence the savings of the reuse of = even 40 ranks of good pipes might amount to only $25-35,000.&nbsp; The = pipes will have to be transported to the builders shop where they can be = cleaned, repaired as may be needed, and wit to the new chests.&nbsp; They = will also have to go on the voicing machine to be regulated for their = proper fit in the new scheme of things.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> The reuse of old pipes can be and sometimes is a good thing.&nbsp; Just do = not expect to save truckloads of money by doing it.<BR> <BR> Bill</FONT></HTML>   --part1_48.f7f09dd.2a80b80b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: recycling M=F6ller pipes From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 00:38:15 -0500     quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > Maybe some of the builders can address the economic issue ... I have > been told over the years that re-using pipes, IF they could be revoiced= , > rescaled, etc., SHOULD run anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of new > pipes.   OK, I'll bite. =20 Depending upon the extent of work which is to be done to a rank, that number is fairly accurate in our experience.   > In my experience, SOME builders are GENIUSES at recycling pipes ...   That's part of the secret of the following:=20   > BUT ... I think you have to find a builder who LIKES doing that sort of > thing. Some do; some don't.   Now here is where Bud and I are going to part company:   > IF you're talking about an 80-year-old Moller, though, you may have som= e > problems, the first being wind-pressure, and the second being pipe > scales, UNLESS what you want is a restoration of what's THERE (an > 80-year-old romantic/orchestral organ, which has its own integrity and > charm), with possibly some additions IN THE SAME STYLE AS THE ORIGINAL.   Having just (barely at that!) completed the renovation of a 3 manual M=F6ller organ that started life in 1914, then re-done in 1947 and again in 1973, gives me, I think, a pretty safe vantage point from which to take pot-shots and shoot some "bulls-eyes" in refutation to these remarks.=20 =20 > In THAT case, you WOULD keep the wind-pressure(s) the same, and NEW wor= k > would have to agree with the old (higher?) pressure(s).   Not necessarily. We didn't. We lowered everything from 5" to 4" and it did not take "wholesale" re-voicing -even, amazingly, on the part of the reeds, to make it work! We DID elect (by choice) to completely re-voice the Principal Choruses and in the case of the First Open (cloth-lead), we did lower cut-ups in the basses only, but almost everything else retained the same scaling and merely had the nicking removed without resorting to installing new Languids, so the pipes could clearly enunciate. A very bright and singing, yet BIG sound was achieved as a consequence. =20 > It would also have to be placed on restored or replacement PITMAN > windchests, to avoid wholesale revoicing of the OLD work, if that's wha= t > the old work is on now. Don't let ANYBODY sell you the idea that they > can change STYLES of windchests without doing WHOLESALE revoicing, and > in the case of the reeds, it may be IMPOSSIBLE. You CANNOT move pipewor= k > voiced to speak on a pitman chest to an electro-mechanical or slider > chest willy-nilly.   Nope. Sorry, because we did just that! And amazingly enough: the short-booted chorus reeds simply LOVE their new home on those slider chests and are AMAZINGLY stable! These all were, of course, previously fitted on run-of-the-mill Moller Pitman Windchests. =20   The new slider Chests were constructed by Reuter and were amongst the "casualties" of the fire they experienced in their former plant after a lightning strike a few years back. Reuter built these windchests anew and did a very nice job on them. =20 I hasten to point out that it does, however, take careful planning and layout of the replacement/substitute windchests to be sure that the reeds are placed directly above the pallets, rather than at the end of the tone-channels on the end opposite from the pallets. The reed pipes otherwise doesn't know which "resonator" it's supposed to speak into (the Slider Chest channel or the actual pipe resonator), and they then tend to "fight". However, above-the-pallet placement, especially if "dividers" are inserted in the channels, greatly obviates those kinds of problems.   > *Please* don't try to put breaking-glass mixtures over top of a 1920s > Moller Open Diapason (grin).   Please don't put breaking-glass mixtures over top of ANYTHING!=20 Responsible organbuilding dictates that an appropriate crown to a Principal chorus ought to have scaling which agrees with the original.=20 Whatever style of voicing is adopted needs to be carried throughout the Principal chorus. It's just as plausible to have OLD work sounding like NEW, especially if you know what you're doing, as it is to make NEW work sound OLD.   On the other hand, we felt that nothing intrinsically musical was to be gained by making all of the flutes "chiffy". Re DID re-scale and re-voice the original M=F6ller Choir Rohr Fl=F6te so it enunciated a bit, just for contrast to the other myriad flutes on this organ, but on some of the stops such as the Great Melodia and Doppel Flute, we elected to simply leave them as they were and they work very nicely. Same goes for most of the string stops. They were, of course, carefully regulated, but no other re-voicing work of any kind was desirable or mandated by the windchest changes for them. =20 > I have HEARD some 1920s Mollers that were given a straight-across > mechanical restoration with NO tonal changes whatsoever, and the effect > has been STARTLING. They do what they do VERY well; you just have to > accept that they won't do EVERYTHING.   If you wish to impose and accept that limitation upon yourself, that is, of course your prerogative! In our case, we chose not to impose that kind of limitation, but at the same time, we wanted to have MAXIMUM utilization of every rank of pipework available from the previous incarnation. The only things that "disappeared" were some of the previous Pedal unifications, as well as the ad-infinatum Dulciana mutant/mutation extensions (which were replaced by actual off-unison mutation stops!)   But talk is cheap. Hearing the finished product is far more productive and convincing than endless diatribe and debate. I'd cordially invite anyone who would like to hear for themselves what really IS possible to achieve with a nineteen-teen's/nineteen-twenties M=F6ller "carcass" is invited to visit First Mennonite Church (the "mother" church of the denomination) 566 W. Main St. Berne, IN. Dr. Scott Lehman, OD, the principal organist, would be pleased and proud to show it to anyone by appointment (260) 589-2020. mailto:slehmanod@adamswells.com   Our Web Page for this organ is currently under construction but it can be viewed in its present incarnation at the following URL.   http://schneider.stjlcms.com/Berne/berne.shtml   Once completed, it will be a part of our linked opus list at the address below.   I realize that it is somewhat unseemly, egotistical or presumptuous for a builder to "toot one's own horn" about one of their projects, but after having just had considerable experience with an instrument exactly as Bud describes, but with musical results which are directly opposite of what he suggests should be the Gospel expectation for instruments of this genre, I simply cannot remain silent, for that would be tantamount to my assent in sharing that opinion. I do not.   With no intended malice and all kindest regards, =20 Faithfully,   --=20 Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL