PipeChat Digest #3013 - Tuesday, August 6, 2002
 
Re: What is average cost per rk average organ?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: recycling M=F6ller pipes
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: 30 Grand per rank?
  by "David Smit" <DavidS@astrolabegroup.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: What is average cost per rk average organ? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 01:34:01 EDT     --part1_50.f7cf69e.2a80b9c9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/6/02 2:24:03 AM Atlantic Daylight Time, williamransomejr@yahoo.com writes: > I have been following the thread in hopes of finding out the range of = cost > per rank/stop in a well made new organ by a competent average builder, > perhaps using some revoiced and/or vintage pipes, and perhaps an old > console rebuilt with modern components and control system. I need to put = an > actual worth for the vestry as well as replacement cost for the = insurance > company.   From your post is isn't clear to me if you are proposing a purchase to the =   vestry or securing figures for the insurance company.   In any case, my advice is to contact three or four reputable builders (not =   technicians) to come evaluate the instrument in your building if this is = for insurance purposes. The figure for the insurance should be for = replacement value at the time of loss.   The same advice also if you are preparing a proposal for the vestry. It = is critical that figures come from a reliable source that can be questioned/interviewed by the vestry.       Bruce in the Muttestery HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW NEW... please visit   with the Baskerbeagles at <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502 .... need extra money??? visit http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053 enjoy shopping?? visit www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg   --part1_50.f7cf69e.2a80b9c9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 8/6/02 2:24:03 AM Atlantic = Daylight Time, williamransomejr@yahoo.com writes: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I have been = following the thread in hopes of finding out the range of cost per = rank/stop in a well made new organ by a competent average builder, perhaps = using some revoiced and/or vintage pipes, and perhaps an old console = rebuilt with modern components and control system. I need to put an actual = worth for the vestry as well as replacement cost for the insurance = company.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> From your post is isn't clear to me if you are proposing a purchase to the = vestry or securing figures for the insurance company.<BR> <BR> In any case, my advice is to contact three or four reputable builders (not = technicians) to come evaluate the instrument in your building if this is = for insurance purposes.&nbsp; The figure for the insurance should be for = replacement value at the time of loss.<BR> <BR> The same advice also if you are preparing a proposal for the vestry.&nbsp; = It is critical that figures come from a reliable source that can be = questioned/interviewed by the vestry.<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> Bruce in the Muttestery&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#ff0080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B>HOWLING ACRES IS NEW NEW = NEW... please visit</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR> <BR> with the Baskerbeagles at&nbsp; <A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/brucon502">HowlingAcres</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://members.tripod.com/brucon502<BR> ....&nbsp; need extra money???&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp;&nbsp; = http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053<BR> enjoy shopping??&nbsp;&nbsp; visit&nbsp; www.freestoreclub.com/go/BDawg = <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_50.f7cf69e.2a80b9c9_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: recycling M=F6ller pipes From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 23:54:50 -0700       Richard Schneider wrote: > > > Now here is where Bud and I are going to part company: > > Wouldn't be the first time (grin).   OK, we disagree on the things we disagree about.   No problem.   *I* still would not sanction changing chest styles.   Anybody else got an opinion on that?   But on one point I should have made myself clearer: my remarks about a straight-across restoration with no tonal changes.   What you did in New Berne is a MAJOR rebuild, if not a new ORGAN, retaining some pipes from the previous instrument(s).   The point I was trying to make (and DIDN'T) was that in situations where money is VERY tight, a straight-across restoration when there ISN'T money for tonal changes can STILL achieve some AMAZING results.   Which also brings us to another point that someone else raised: the average parish organist does NOT need a concert instrument. (S)he needs a simple, sturdy organ that will play hymns, anthems, (service music, in a liturgical church) and SIMPLE voluntaries.   When I wrote those remarks about straight-across restorations, I had two specific organs in mind, both Mollers, and both from the 1920s. One is a small three-manual (actually a two manual with a mostly-duplexed Choir organ), the other a smaller two manual, with one or two independent stops on the Great, and the rest duplexed from the Swell.   The three-manual received a MAJOR overhaul some years ago, but no tonal changes ... and a boring, lifeless-sounding organ came back to life. It was discovered to have a BIG romantic English sound, with MARVELOUS accompaniment capabilities. The church had been investigating replacing it with a large custom electronic, but chose to rebuild their beloved pipe organ instead.   The smaller organ has never had a major rebuild, as it has had regular maintenance over the years ... it's in a slightly LARGER church than the three-manual, but enjoys better placement and better acoustics.   The church where the three-manual organ is located maintains a pretty extensive music program ... graded choirs, two or three cantatas a year, etc. ... all accompanied by the Moller, and occasionally a small orchestra.   The church where the two-manual organ is located maintains a classic, conservative Associate Reform Presbyterian service, complete with metrical Psalters instead of hymnals in the pews. The Moller does EVERYTHING it needs to do, and does it well.   There would be absolutely no reason to replace or tamper with EITHER organ. The small town where both organs are located is far enough from any major urban center or university that it's HIGHLY unlikely EITHER church will ever attract a professional organist. Both have been served by what the English would call "competent amateurs" for many years.   Both organs will play more music than one might imagine, but one has to switch gears and play IN THE STYLE OF THE INSTRUMENT. A Handel organ concerto with strings 16-8-4 against a Doppel Flute for the solo isn't AUTHENTIC, but it WORKS in this case.   As the Presbyterians didn't admit organs until fairly late in the game, there's really no historical model to return to; ditto the Baptists (the church where the three-manual organ is located). In the South, at least, there aren't many Bapist OR Presbyterian organs from before 1900.   NOW, if one had a blank check, one WOULD build something more versatile TODAY. But lacking the blank check, these churches have simply maintained their organs and played them, Sunday by Sunday, for generations.   By contrast, another local church has replaced their pipe organ THREE times in the same time-period, and is probably due for a fourth by now .... all pipe organs, but none except the first made for the building, and all but the first bought second-hand. The first organ they discarded (a seven-stop Estey) ended up in the church of my early childhood ... it was the first pipe organ I ever played; I played the second organ through high school; it was an Aeolian residence organ, poorly installed, and was never very successful; the third organ, a second-hand McManis unit organ, came later. The simple, sturdy Estey was DEFINITELY the best CHURCH organ of the lot.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: RE: 30 Grand per rank? From: "David Smit" <DavidS@astrolabegroup.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:47:10 +0200   Hi,   This is like saying pipes halve every octave!   If one says 30 000/rank that includes all the mechanics design time and so forth. Basically it says 30 000 per rank to have the rank heard. The pipes themselves cost about 8 000.   As an aside - our current work is quoted at 800 000 for thirteen ranks - thats 61 000 per rank! Why - because we have to import a great deal of = stuff from Germany and America and the dollar is worth ten times what the Rand is...assuming you can get anyone to give you some in the first place.:-)   David Smit For SPOB +27-84-717-1059 www.saorgans.ws <http://www.saorgans.ws>           -----Original Message----- From: TubaMagna@aol.com [mailto:TubaMagna@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 3:47 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: 30 Grand per rank?     Here we go again.   Pipe organs are NOT priced at $30,000 per rank, let alone $30,000 per = stop, unless we are talking about 32' extensions.   That kind of pricing is inexcusable. So is believing it. So is paying it.   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org