PipeChat Digest #3026 - Thursday, August 8, 2002
 
Re: Gravissima
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Gravissima
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Shot Speakers (and AMPS)(ALTERNATIVES)
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: (ALTERNATIVES) Doing what is best(long)
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Church Business
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
restoring Skinners, pistons, etc.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
churches
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc.
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: churches
  by "Keith Wannamaker" <Keith@Wannamaker.org>
Re: Pricing and integrity -  cluelessness and arrogance a bad combo.
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc.
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Johannes Organs
  by "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net>
BRASSO for reed organ reeds!
  by "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net>
Better results?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: 5-1/3' Reed
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc.
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: 5-1/3' Reed
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: The "trouble" with pipe organs?
  by "Jim Hailey" <jhaileya10@charter.net>
Re: 5 1/3 Reed
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re: 5 1/3 Reed
  by "Douglas Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Gravissima From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 07:33:28 +1200   >I've not ever seen an electronic organ with a 64' stop. I really do not = see >any purpose in it on pipe organs, quite frankly. And I don't understand = why >some organs have 32' stops on manuals.   Would you believe it, our Dunedin Town Hall (Hill Norman & Beard, 1920s) = has a TenC 32ft Contra Trumpet on the Swell. When you add the SubOctave = coupler, the 64ft manual reed sound down to MidC is one of terrifying clarity - = NOT!   Changing tack slightly, can anyone tell me how a 5 1/3 reed sounds in the Swell 16 8 4 chorus? TYhere are several in the UK that I know of, and I believe there is one in a South African town hall, also by N&B.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Gravissima From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:31:48 EDT   Dear Ross:   The Mormon Tabernacle has a quint reed on the swell and a 32' reed all the way to the bottom 32,16, 8's 5 1/3' 4's. Solo work comes to mind, not used in the chorus perse. It unleashes a lot of power for a unique solo experience.   Ron  
(back) Subject: Re: Shot Speakers (and AMPS)(ALTERNATIVES) From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:32:14 -0400     On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:43:56 EDT RonSeverin@aol.com writes: > I think we can safely say that when the speakers and amps. have > to be serviced or replaced, it's time to consider a new organ. An > early analog or MOS system simply doesn't sound as good as > the new work. Electronics by nature are expendable after 25-30 > years of service.   I do believe that you are endorsing the concept that electronic instruments DO have a finite USABLE life span and that life span is determined not by the tone generation, but rather, by the amplifiers and speakers which we KNOW have degraded substantially after a period of 20 years or so......     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.  
(back) Subject: Re: (ALTERNATIVES) Doing what is best(long) From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:35:57 EDT   Dear Doug:   I do think organs do reach an economic point of diminishing returns. This goes for Pipe 50-100 years depending if it's a good one. and I've even run across small ones in this category, and Electronic organs of 25-40 years. This may extend the life of those electronic organs too if the tonal sound is still good. We are mighty close to achieving that goal if it already hasn't dawned.   To remain current, consoles of pipe organs, should be upgraded with the latest piston memory units, as in the Salt Lake Skinner. It makes = little sense to my practical mind to do an expensive rebuild of old style piston motors, and having to change pistons during recitals. New memory systems make perfect sense, and reuse of the old stop heads. Cosmetically they look the same, and releaves of the near future possibility of having to releather them again. It makes no sense. Pneumatic Swell motors same thing, replace with electricly operated ones. Kah-Plush just doesn't cut it. It's darn silly to spend other people's money on antiquated = systems of any kind. E.M. Skinner was always leaning toward the latest technology, as they all were.   The old analog and early digital systems, by todays standards are not something to perpetuate, just to see how long they'll last. The = limitations are many, but when they were first introduced were terrific, but we've moved long passed that point, and they are not quite so pleasing now. For less than the instrument's original cost a superior sound can be obtained, which will wear into the future much better, with the latest technology. And why not do it?   These tonal and mechanical improvements will be superseded too, and when the time of diminishing returns comes around it makes sense to up grade at that point too.   Historical rebuilds are just that, and in some cases not very practical. Some organ builders early in the century who built the organ as a tracker waisted no time or sorrow in electrifying them and supplying electric stop actions, and modern consoles was a step in the right direction. Slider electric chests by Schlicker were just such an = innovation. electric couplers was another. Hermann wasn't all bad, and had some great ideas. Electric blowers was another step forward after hand blowing and water motor blowing. With proper wind lines turbulance can be kept to a minimum or eliminated all together. Get thee behind me with flexhaust. PVC is a terrific windline medium, as is in Sanfilippo's Installation, smooth walls, what could be better?   Those are my thoughts, no flames please from the historic crowd, as I am aware of your good points too.   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Church Business From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:43:48 EDT     --part1_64.2347a7d5.2a843204_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   In a message dated 8/8/02 11:30:38 AM Central Daylight Time,=3D20 Wurlibird1@aol.com writes:     > Keith Morgan writes: >=3D20 > >=3DC6olian-Skinner was screwed many times by these > >"Christian" organizations. <<   Countless church musicians have been as well, ROYALLY............   --part1_64.2347a7d5.2a843204_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">In a message dated 8/8/02 11:30:38 AM Central = Daylight=3D Time, Wurlibird1@aol.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Keith Morgan writes:<BR> <BR> &gt;=3DC6olian-Skinner was screwed many times by these<BR> &gt;"Christian" organizations. &lt;</BLOCKQUOTE>&lt;</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#=3D 000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FA=3D CE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Countless church = musicians h=3D ave been as well, ROYALLY............</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" = style=3D =3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Arial"=3D20=3D LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_64.2347a7d5.2a843204_boundary--  
(back) Subject: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:03:10 -0700   Sorry, have to disagree with friend Ron ... Woolsey Hall has received a museum-quality restoration at the hands of A. Thompson-Allen & Co., including the remote capture machines, and it is a JOY to play in ALL regards. I haven't played St. Luke's Evanston since that rebuild, but I'm sure it's the same.   The greatest service-players AND recitalists of past generations managed quite handily with a handful of general and divisional pistons.   Here's a thing: first of all, the art of hand-registering is being lost .... listen to an English cathedral organist shade EACH verse of the Psalter accompaniment BY HAND, and you'll see what I mean ... AND the multiplication of memories, pistons, "NEXT" buttons, etc. is having the (perhaps unintentional) effect of giving the music a RESTLESS quality. Just because one CAN change stops every other beat doesn't mean that one SHOULD.   The LEGITIMATE combinations required by the LITERATURE and the CHURCH SERVICE are relatively FEW. True, in a very large organ, one has the opportunity to SHADE those combinations, but ... THEY ARE STILL THE SAME BASIC COMBINATIONS. Even the LARGEST organs (Riverside, CC, West Point, First Congo, etc.) may only offer four or five different plena. Exactly HOW many versions of "Full Swell To Reeds" does one REQUIRE?   It's instructive to look at the economy of design of English cathedral organs in the "golden age" ... one of the most telling Swell organs in the British Isles, St. Paul's in London, had something like twelve stops.   When people say they MUST have multiple memories and Next buttons, I keep pleading (as I do with tonal design) for people to GO BACK TO THE LITERATURE.   Franck and virtually ALL of the French Romantic school can be played with nothing more than four ventils: Recit, Positif, G.O. and Pedale.   MOST Bach preludes and fugues can be played with nothing more that a means of throwing the Positiv or Oberwerk to Hauptwerk coupler ON or OFF and perhaps adding or subtracting the Hauptwerk and Pedal reed(s).   NONE of the chorale-preludes require stop-changes, except at the ends of sections in multi-verse ones like O Lamm Gottes of the Great Eighteen, or the Partitas, or adding the Pedal Posaune in the second verse of Komm Gott Schoepfer. And much of the former can be accomplished by manual changes and adding or subtracting the coupler(s).   There are PRECIOUS few pieces of organ LITERATURE written for the modern combination ACTION ... Schoenberg's Variations on a Recitative comes to mind ... it contains detailed instructions for setting up the organ ... but how many OTHERS are there?   Just my two cents' worth ...   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: churches From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:05:39 -0700   A quote from an old friend:   "Churches minister to the dysfunctional; the PROBLEM arises when the dysfunctional rise to positions of power WITHIN the Church, as is often the case."   Dr. Robert Barrett, PhD (sometime around 1988)   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc. From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:13:24 EDT   BUD:   How many piston memories are you going to have on that new Holtkamp Hmmmmm! A ton prolly. We all have done hand reg's. Are you going to have Appels, reeds off, Mixtures off 32' off, Mutations off? Manual transfers? I'll bet you will. I'll take multiple memories anyday just like they did in Salt Lake. How about adjustable cresendos? How about adjustable tutti's? I'll just bet you will. I'm positive of it.   I said no flames from the historical crowd, but you didn't disappoint me did you.   Ron  
(back) Subject: Re: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:34:53 -0700   Nope, I'm NOT having MOST of that, in favour of another rank of PIPES.   Manual transfer, yes, for the sake of playing the French LITERATURE ...   But NO MIDI, NO sequencer, NO "Next" piston, NO this and that off or on, etc. ... basically (except for the transfer) nothing that wouldn't have been found on a Skinner console of eighty years ago ... except that it's going to have stop-tongues because it's a HOLTKAMP console (chuckle).   I know what I need on the crescendo and the tutti ... in an organ of 43 speaking stops, how adjustable do THOSE need to be? (grin)   If some of that "comes with" whatever solid-state package Chris uses, I might THINK about it, as long as we're paying for it ANYWAY, but I CERTAINLY wouldn't pay EXTRA for it.   Cheers,   Bud       RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: > > BUD: > > How many piston memories are you going to have on that new > Holtkamp Hmmmmm! A ton prolly. We all have done hand > reg's. Are you going to have Appels, reeds off, Mixtures off > 32' off, Mutations off? Manual transfers? I'll bet you will. > I'll take multiple memories anyday just like they did in Salt Lake. > How about adjustable cresendos? How about adjustable tutti's? > I'll just bet you will. I'm positive of it. > > I said no flames from the historical crowd, but you didn't disappoint me > did you. > > Ron > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: RE: churches From: "Keith Wannamaker" <Keith@Wannamaker.org> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:38:58 -0500   I think everyone has a streak of being dysfunctional. Or, it appeared that way last week when certain people were ranting about other organ mailing lists.   Regards, Keith   | -----Original Message----- | "Churches minister to the dysfunctional; the PROBLEM arises when the | dysfunctional rise to positions of power WITHIN the Church, as is often | the case."    
(back) Subject: Re: Pricing and integrity - cluelessness and arrogance a bad combo. From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:44:00 EDT     --part1_16f.11d5d101.2a844020_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/8/2002 9:44:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, arpschneider@starband.net writes:     > And let's face it: corporate types or not; most churches are indeed > CLUELESS, and that means they have to be patiently educated all along > the way. Hand-holding on the part of sensitive builders goes a long > way in getting them to instill trust that integrity is there and "let > go". > A good point here...one of the very first organbuilding projects that I = was involved with was a job thaqt was 'handed off' from another = well-established builder whose name many would recognize here in the mid-atlantic region.   The Pastor of the church, a well-trained architect (he designed the = building the organ was going into) was a continual question-asker. the builder who = was contracted to install the organ tired of the pastor's desire to learn and understand this process, because the pipe organ was HIS doing...the church =   referred to this pipe organ project in the large Pentecostal church as M****'s Folly...so the pastor was understandably defensive about the = organ. Anyway, the builder basically told the pastor of the church to go away and =   stop asking so many questions (being tactful here, aren't I!), so the = pastor fired the firm right then and there, and I was eventualy brought in to = finish the job with another builder. SO, it pays to be polite to the = powers-that-be.   that having been said, the church that buys a pipe organ must trust and repect the builder if they are to get the best result for their project.   Rick in VA     --part1_16f.11d5d101.2a844020_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 8/8/2002 9:44:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, arpschneider@starband.net = writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And let's face it: = corporate types or not; most churches are indeed <BR>CLUELESS, and that means they have to be patiently educated all along <BR>the way. &nbsp;Hand-holding on the part of sensitive builders goes a = long <BR>way &nbsp;in getting them to instill trust that integrity is there and = "let <BR>go". <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>A good point here...one of the very first organbuilding projects that = I was involved with was a job thaqt was 'handed off' from another = well-established builder whose name many would recognize here in the = mid-atlantic region. <BR> <BR>The Pastor of the church, a well-trained architect (he designed the = building the organ was going into) was a continual question-asker. the = builder who was contracted to install the organ tired of the pastor's = desire to learn and understand this process, because the pipe organ was = HIS doing...the church referred to this pipe organ project in the large = Pentecostal church as M****'s Folly...so the pastor was understandably = defensive about the organ. Anyway, the builder basically told the pastor = of the church to go away and stop asking so many questions (being tactful = here, aren't I!), so the pastor fired the firm right then and there, and I = was eventualy brought in to finish the job with another builder. SO, it = pays to be polite to the powers-that-be. <BR> <BR>that having been said, the church that buys a pipe organ must trust = and repect the builder if they are to get the best result for their = project. <BR> <BR>Rick in VA <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_16f.11d5d101.2a844020_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc. From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:49:31 +1200     >... one of the most telling Swell organs in >the British Isles, St. Paul's in London, had something like twelve >stops. >   I can also disagree with Ron. Our Wellington Town Hall has a 4/57 Norman & Beard pneumatic from 1906, complete with chorus Tubae Mirabiles (grin, my plural) at 16 8 4 on the Solo, and 32ft Open metal and 32ft Contra Posaune (full-length) on the Pedal. The organ was fully restored a few years ago, totally unchanged, except for new blower switches on the console, the old 1906 motors being in perfect condition still. No one would dream of = changing anything, as it's the most wonderfully playable comfortable console and = the action is blindingly fast. Christopher Herrick made a CD of it a while ago and regards it as a very very important organ indeed, world-wise.   Too, I can think of a number of tracker organs that I have persuaded the church to have restored rather than electrified, some 35 to 45 years ago now. In all cases, the original tracker has lasted better than the new electric actions when the church ignored my advice and had the organ electrified at greater expense than the tracker restoration.   Hand registration is indeed perfectly fine for service-playing. I was Director of Music at a church with a 3/32 (approx.) for a time back in the 1970s. The church was the most ritualistic = musically-inclined-&-complicated church in NZ. I never touched the pistons once.   Yes, St Paul's London still has only 12 stops in the Swell organ of that mighty instrument. Something like this, if I remember rightly - 16 8 8 8 8 4 2 III 16 8 8 4. But when you've got such a vast quantity of other stuff, no one minds in the slightest.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Johannes Organs From: "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:02:41 -0400   I am considering purchasing a recent-model Johannes organ, but have had no experience with them. If anyone on this list has one, or has had experience, I'd appreciate hearing from you privately. (pca@sover.net). How do they compare with = Allen organs?   Phil Stimmel      
(back) Subject: BRASSO for reed organ reeds! From: "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:04:14 -0500   Greetings:   Cleaning reed organ reeds has been discussed throughly in the Reed Organ Society website.   At present I have a Mason & Hamlin Liszt organ, two Esteys and a Mustel concertal. I have yet to clean the reeds on these instruments with = anything other than diluted ammonia and a soft brush.   I would be very reluctant to use Brasso for cleaning reeds. This seems as destructive as using toilet bowl cleaner, which has been suggested by another author (who also recommends using contact cement instead of hot = glue for feeders and reservoir).   Unless the reeds are coated with rodent urine or other sticky debris a GENTLE brushing with a very soft brush (shaving cream brush) is usually = all that is necessary.   Brasso will probably give a very bright cosmetic appearance. But if an instrument has been properly restored, who will see these reeds for = another 50 years?   Now back to pipes vs. toasters and cost of 32" & 64' pedal stops!   Best wishes,   Tom Gregory   p.s. If anyone wishes additional information regarding restoration of = reed organs and harmoniums check the Reed Organ Society website. The ROS is a very friendly and helpful organization with very little, if any flaming.     -- Thomas and Patricia Gregory 716 West College Avenue Waukesha WI USA 53186-4569  
(back) Subject: Better results? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:40:08 EDT   There is some opinion that the bottom end of a 32' stopped flute = sounds better when made as a resultant, probably because they are so often feeble =   and breathy when built as normal pipes. Dr. Robert S. Baker, in some of his consultancies, would actually ASK = if the bottom end (I think he told me the last seven notes) could be made resultant, since the firmer, prompter speech of the smaller pipes, in the right room, made for a better sound. The Kimball 32' Bourdon at the First Congregational Church in = Columbus, Ohio, is one of the better examples of a stopped 32' at actually works, = and works magnificently. Some of the worst I have ever heard are ones in which =   somebody attempted to stopper a 16' Open Wood. Little did they know that they'd run out of pipes at the bottom. The absolute WORST I've heard in THAT type of situation is, by the = way, in a much-lauded, underwhelming Aeolian-Skinner, that when fully coupled, cannot be heard above the choir. Seb  
(back) Subject: Re: 5-1/3' Reed From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:44:07 EDT   Ron Severin said:   "The Mormon Tabernacle has a quint reed on the swell and a 32' reed all = the way to the bottom 32,16, 8's 5 1/3' 4's. Solo work comes to mind, not used = in the chorus perse [sic]."   Most musicians and organbuilders would think in diametric opposition to = this statement. Can you please elucidate your rationale?  
(back) Subject: Re: restoring Skinners, pistons, etc. From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:47:30 EDT   Thank you, Bud. Seb  
(back) Subject: Re: 5-1/3' Reed From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:33:25 EDT   Well Seb:   Believe it or not I heard Alex Schreiner use it as a solo combination on one of the televised Christmas music programs when he was still playing. It was an improvisation to the tune Yorkshire. Now I don't know = if he hit a wrong piston, but he carried through with it and it was quite impressive. 32' 16' 8' 5 1/3' 4' It began as just the tune and expanded to another = manual in four voices and pedal. It indeed was a strangely compelling sound which I have never heard before or since. This was during the 60's   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: The "trouble" with pipe organs? From: "Jim Hailey" <jhaileya10@charter.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:25:49 -0500   No actually Richard, I think that you feel that I am strictly a digital = fan, which is not true. However, when I made my post, I was probably equally = as frustrated as you in what seemed to be an exhibited attitude that nothing exists but pipe organs and those that do not play them or those that = accept the digital concept do not count.   My comment on not everything centering around the organ was directed = towards the attitude of most churches, or at least mine, that there is only so = much in the pie and each part of the church gets their piece, no more or less with music being one piece and an organ being a bite or two of that piece.   I just fought a two month battle with those that could really care less about an organ and their ideas of worship are centered around things such = as youth, family life centers and similar non-service oriented activities. I found out real quick that if the organ was going to take away from their precious projects that it could just go away.   Now, with all of this in mind, I had read numerous posts, one of yours included, that exhibited the attitude that if one did not believe solely = in the pipe organ, that maybe one was less than life itself. We all have our passions, even those of us that have accepted digitals.   My passion is organ. My favorite recorded organ is the Riverside, so it would not take much of a genius to figure out that my favorite artist is Virgil Fox. (not to start the Fox vs. Biggs thread) Hopefully this demonstrates where my passion lies. There is sufficient room for organ lovers in both the pipe and digital worlds.   So with all of that said, those of us that accept digitals, either forced = or by choice, still have thoughts and feelings and believe it or not empathy.     Jim H.     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:55 PM Subject: Re: The "trouble" with pipe organs?     > > Jim Hailey wrote: > > > Maybe you should read our Administrator's definition of this list = before you > > blast me. > > Actually, Jim, I really wasn't trying to blast you. As the > administrator himself has said, the argument between pipe and pipeless > is one that only makes ones hackles and defenses raise to the fore. > > Go figure. > > With all best wishes from: > > -- > Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO > SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. > Pipe Organ Builders > 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 > Kenney, IL 61749-0137 > (217) 944-2454 VOX > (217) 944-2527 FAX > mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL > mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL > mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL > http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: Re: 5 1/3 Reed From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:22:01 EDT   SMG asks:   >Can you please elucidate your rationale? <<     Elucidate? Holy cow!     Best wishes, Jim Pitts  
(back) Subject: Re: 5 1/3 Reed From: "Douglas Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:27:07 -0700 (PDT)   Everytime I read something from SMG, I think more and more that his needs could be met with a good enema.   D. Keith Morgan     --- Wurlibird1@aol.com wrote: > SMG asks: > > >Can you please elucidate your rationale? << > > > Elucidate? Holy cow! > > > Best wishes, > Jim Pitts > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com