PipeChat Digest #3030 - Saturday, August 10, 2002
 
RE: Johannus Organs
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Re: Johannes Organs and Gravissima :REPLY (LONG)
  by <Icedad@aol.com>
Re: Gravissima
  by "Arno Schuh" <arno.schuh@in-trier.de>
re: Hudson Valley Bach Fest
  by <patmai@juno.com>
Re: Juels[sp?]
  by "G. Deboer" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net>
Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by <wchapmn@attglobal.net>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "G. Deboer" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net>
Re: Juels[sp?]
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
Re: Johannus Organs
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
ALL READ!!! Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "Mack" <mack02445@mindspring.com>
Re: ALL READ!!! Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "Mack" <mack02445@mindspring.com>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by <Icedad@aol.com>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "Mack" <mack02445@mindspring.com>
Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Johannus Organs From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 07:50:51 -0400   I think those who bought a Johannus organ "just a year or so ago" should = be "certain to see and hear the newest models" that are "light years ahead of what was available...." AjM   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Wurlibird1@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:59 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Johannus Organs   For those who inquired about Johannus Organs, be certain you see and hear the newest models. They are light years ahead of what was available just a = year or so ago. More channels, greater sampling rate, and more improved = voicing. This is not a sales pitch, just an advisory that their latest models are very much improved and certainly worth a listen.   Best wishes, Jim Pitts   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: Johannes Organs and Gravissima :REPLY (LONG) From: <Icedad@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:30:30 EDT     --part1_a3.2caa4f01.2a866166_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear John,   I was merely relating our year experience in the selecting and installation of a new church instrument. I am not suggesting anyone buy = an Allen based on my experience. A week or so prior to our committee research =   deadline, we were probably going to go with a Rodgers/Ruffatti = pipe/digital organ. We also had Wicks and Reuter pipe/digital proposals to present to =   our pastor and parish Council. My associate organist was irritated that I had not given Allen a thought since we had heard so many other installations but passed by = Allen . I had told ALL that I would NEVER have an Allen in my church. I = reluctantly "gave in" and went to hear several Allen Renaissance, digital and pipe/digital installations. I was completely astounded when I heard these organs. From the smallest string to the largest reed, the sound was remarkable. We found the larger Allen Renaissance 3 manual 80 stop, to be exactly what we were looking for in our search. Besides the sound, the feature which sold us on the Renaissance was the changing of the = software to fit your room, sound preference, congregation and/or playing style. It = is truly remarkable. If you do not like the principal chorus or the strings, flutes etc, you have myriads to choose from, Skinner, Moller, = Cavaille-Coll, Casavant,,,etc In addition, my pipe ranks are blended so well within the organ that you cannot tell the pipe ranks from the digital. It is really = a remarkable installation. I have never been a proponent of Allen nor any other digital instrument, but I can truly say we are certainly satisfied with our Allen Renaissance pipe/digital combination organ. Only last evening I was practicing for several hours, recorded my playing and then walked around = our large sanctuary listening. WOW What an awesome sound I thought. We had = found the perfect installation for our parish community. Thanks for listening to = my story.   Daniel   --part1_a3.2caa4f01.2a866166_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">Dear John,<BR> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I was merely relating our&nbsp; = year experience in the selecting and installation&nbsp; of a new church = instrument. I am not suggesting anyone buy an Allen based on my = experience. A week or so prior to our committee research deadline, we were = probably going to go with a Rodgers/Ruffatti pipe/digital organ. We also = had Wicks and Reuter&nbsp; pipe/digital&nbsp; proposals to present to our = pastor and parish Council.<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My associate organist was irritated = that I had <B>not given Allen a thought</B> since we had heard so many = other&nbsp; installations but passed by Allen . I had told ALL that I = would NEVER have an Allen in my church. I reluctantly "gave in" and went = to hear several Allen Renaissance, digital and pipe/digital installations. = I was completely astounded when I heard these organs. From the smallest = string to the largest reed, the sound was remarkable. <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We found the larger Allen = Renaissance&nbsp; 3 manual 80 stop,&nbsp; to be exactly what we were = looking for in our search. Besides the sound, the feature which sold&nbsp; = us on&nbsp; the Renaissance&nbsp; was the changing of the software to fit = your room, sound preference, congregation and/or playing style. It is = truly remarkable. If you do not like the principal chorus or the strings, = flutes etc, you have myriads to choose from, Skinner, Moller, = Cavaille-Coll, Casavant,,,etc&nbsp; In addition, my pipe ranks are blended = so well within the organ&nbsp; that you cannot tell the pipe ranks from = the digital. It is really a remarkable installation.<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have never been a proponent of = Allen nor any other digital instrument, but I can truly say we are certainly satisfied = with our Allen Renaissance pipe/digital combination organ. Only last = evening I was practicing for several hours, recorded my playing and&nbsp; = then walked around our large sanctuary listening. WOW What an awesome = sound I thought. We&nbsp; had found the perfect installation for our = parish community. Thanks for listening to my story.<BR> <BR> Daniel</FONT></HTML>   --part1_a3.2caa4f01.2a866166_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Gravissima From: "Arno Schuh" <arno.schuh@in-trier.de> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:54:48 +0200     From: "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 7:05 PM > Goodness gracious why?   If really interested, perhaps you should ask himself mailto:OrgGrinder@aol.com    
(back) Subject: re: Hudson Valley Bach Fest From: <patmai@juno.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:03:55 -0400   Dear Pipechatters,   If you are in the area or would not mind a drive... you are invited to New York's scenic Hudson Valley (also a bit hot and humid at this time.. ) As the weekend continues, the musicians in the Hudson Valley are donating their services for the third annual H V Bach Fest. Today, August 10 (Saturday) we are in Poughkeepsie and August 11 (Sunday) in Cornwall-on-Hudson plus a 9 AM church service in P'kpsie.   The Keyboard Marathon in Cornwall-on-Hudson attracted an attentive, medium-sized audience which decreased in numbers as we ascended the chromatic scale of keys of the 24 Preludes and Fugues from Book II of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier in the warm summer evening. Many audience members and a few players had left by the time we reached the Prelude and Fugue in A Flat Major.. Your scribe, with a removable air cast on the right ankle, departed about that time..   Two of us (Janet Nickerson, organist of King of Kings Lutheran church, New Windsor and St. Luke's Episcopal in the Hudson Valley) did play our Preludes and Fugues on the two manual Van Seters pipe organ built c. 30 years ago by Henry VanSeters, retired Curator of Pipe Organs (Cadet Chapel, Post Chapel, Old Cadet Chapel) at West Point.   Today I shall play the fast-moving orchestral parts from the duet from Bach Cantata 146 for two tenors arranged for two trumpets and organ (7:30 PM concert) and the St. Anne Fugue in E Flat Major, BWV 552.2, (3:30 PM) on the three-manual Gress-Miles pipe organ at Christ Episcopal Church, Poughkeepsie. Yours truly along with Hudson Valley organists Connie Lacey and Lois Hoger will sing alto in Chorus I with double orchestra for the highlights from Bach's St. Matthew Passion tonight.   James Fitzwilliam, organist at First Presbyterian Church in Poughkeepsie, will play the organ part of Orchestra I as part of the Saint Matthew Passion excerpts (7:30 PM) and Denise Levine, CHV (Central Hudson Valley) AGO Board member and Professional Concerns chair, will play the Schuebler chorale "Wachet auf" arranged by JSB from Cantata 140 (at the 3:30 concert) . For more info, please visit   http://hudsonvalleysocietyformusic.org   Your prayers and good wishes are requested for this organist, whose right ankle is slightly improved when restrained in the air cast. Bruises on the right wrist, left eye and both knees after last week's fall on the concrete in the Cadet Chapel parking lot are healing gradually.   With best wishes to all, Pat Maimone patmai@juno.com yp6867@exmail.usma.army.mil     ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.  
(back) Subject: Re: Juels[sp?] From: "G. Deboer" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:34:52 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0030_01C24059.8FDE6920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Now, now, now, this sounds like another silly remark by an Allen organ =3D salesman, but then you have to feel somewhat sorry for them, their sales = =3D are dropping off and the monthly margins are getting smaller, all =3D because of increased Johannus sales. Not too long ago Allen closed one of their manufacturing assembly =3D plants, yet at the same time Johannus is expanding and just moved into a = =3D brand new facility 3X larger than the old one, just to keep up with the = =3D demand of their ever increasing customer base. Customers that really know their stuff have discovered that Johannus is = =3D technically far ahead of anything anyone else has to offer in the =3D digital organ world. Johannus is the only one rapidly expanding, even in these troubled times = =3D of economic uncertainty.   Gary   ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Cremona502@cs.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 3:00 AM Subject: Re: Juels[sp?]     In a message dated 8/8/02 4:55:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!, =3D RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org writes:=3D20       Yet another question concerning organs, digital organs. Can anyone =3D on this=3D20 list recommend the proper circuit breaker for a medium sized digital = =3D organ?=3D20       A large mallet should do it!!! ;-) heeheehee=3D20   Bruce in the Muttestery at Howling Acres =3D http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502=3D20 ...an opportunity for health & wealth http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053 = =3D     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0030_01C24059.8FDE6920 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Now, now, now, this sounds like = another =3D silly=3D20 remark by an Allen organ salesman, but then you have to feel somewhat =3D sorry for=3D20 them, their sales are dropping off and the monthly margins are getting =3D smaller,=3D20 all because of increased Johannus sales.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Not too long ago Allen closed one of = =3D their=3D20 manufacturing assembly plants, yet at the same time Johannus is =3D expanding and=3D20 just moved into a brand new facility 3X larger than the old one, just to = =3D keep up=3D20 with the demand of their ever increasing customer base.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Customers that really know their = stuff =3D have=3D20 discovered that Johannus is technically far ahead of anything anyone =3D else has to=3D20 offer in the digital organ world.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Johannus is the only one rapidly =3D expanding, even in=3D20 these troubled times of economic uncertainty.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Gary</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3DCremona502@cs.com=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Cremona502@cs.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 09, 2002 = =3D 3:00=3D20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Juels[sp?]</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>In a =3D message dated=3D20 8/8/02 4:55:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"mailto:RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org">RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org</A> = =3D writes:=3D20 <BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=3D20 TYPE=3D3D"CITE">Yet another question concerning organs, digital organs. = =3D Can=3D20 anyone on this <BR>list recommend the proper circuit breaker for a =3D medium=3D20 sized digital organ? <BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 face=3D3DArial =3D color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D3=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 =3D face=3D3DArial=3D20 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>A large mallet = =3D should do it!!!=3D20 &nbsp;;-) &nbsp;heeheehee <BR><BR>Bruce in the Muttestery at Howling =3D Acres=3D20 http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 <BR>...an opportunity for health =3D &amp;=3D20 wealth &nbsp;http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053</FONT>=3D20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0030_01C24059.8FDE6920--    
(back) Subject: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:02:02 -0700   (1) Bruce Cornely does not (to my knowledge) sell Allens, or any other brand of electronic substitute, though legend has it that he collects vintage Bawld-One schpinettes <G>   (2) AFAIK, Allen has one factory, in Macungie, PA, USA which continues to operate. Perhaps the person who said Allen has closed one of their factories (sic) would like to identify the location of that factory.   (3) Shilling for ANY electronic substitute is NOT, to my way of thinking, what this list is about, and   (4) David just recently called for an end to the unwinnable pipes vs. digitoids debate.   Cheers,   Bud Clark    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: <wchapmn@attglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 12:39:07 -0400       Dear List:   Bud said, > (2) AFAIK, Allen has one factory, in Macungie, PA, USA which continues > to operate. Perhaps the person who said Allen has closed one of their > factories (sic) would like to identify the location of that factory.   Allen is a publicly traded company and so much of what they do is = announced and in print. This compares to the otherwise closely held companies which can say anything through the marketing people despite reality. Hence, to find out what Allen is "really" doing is easier than for several others = that come to mind.   Allen is not limited to the "electronic" organ business. In fact, Allen is in sound systems, computers, networking and so on.   As to the "closed" factory, and without checking my facts, Allen has = indeed closed a factory. BUT if memory serves correctly is was for an OLD plant that helped with very dated synthesizer technology that they sold mostly = to third parties. It is old news and it was not near PA, and not part of the core business.   Wm. G. Chapman      
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "G. Deboer" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:50:48 -0500   AOC being a public company has all this information available at their website. Not just organs, but also financial data, location of plants and general business activities, including those of other divisions. Johannus also has that available, except for financial being a private company. Rodgers business is not registered anywhere, as it is a very small = sideline of the Roland corporation located in Japan. All the others (church organ digitals) are very small private companies, with few employees. Good instruments perhaps but no dealer networks. Happy searching.   Gary   ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> To: "pipechat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 11:02 AM Subject: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc.     > (1) Bruce Cornely does not (to my knowledge) sell Allens, or any other > brand of electronic substitute, though legend has it that he collects > vintage Bawld-One schpinettes <G> > > (2) AFAIK, Allen has one factory, in Macungie, PA, USA which continues > to operate. Perhaps the person who said Allen has closed one of their > factories (sic) would like to identify the location of that factory. > > (3) Shilling for ANY electronic substitute is NOT, to my way of > thinking, what this list is about, and > > (4) David just recently called for an end to the unwinnable pipes vs. > digitoids debate. > > Cheers, > > Bud Clark > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Juels[sp?] From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 13:04:49 -0400   Now, now, now yourself Gary, You have obviously misinterpreted Bruce's remark, and you must not read Pipechat regularly or else you would know that Bruce would just as happily use a large mallet, a wrecking ball, a chain saw, or any other instrument of destruction on whatever kind of synthetic organ, be it Allen, Johannus, or Casio. Bruce prefers real pipes, and he seems to prefer being attached to them with sticks and wires. Then again, I feel sure Bruce will be speaking for himself shortly just as soon as he can pry himself away from feeding his Beagles and running his business of selling nutritious chemicals and legal services. :-)   Cheers Mike   "G. Deboer" wrote:   > Now, now, now, this sounds like another silly remark > by an Allen organ salesman, but then you have to feel > somewhat sorry for them, their sales are dropping off > and the monthly margins are getting smaller, all > because of increased Johannus sales.Not too long ago > Allen closed one of their manufacturing assembly > plants, yet at the same time Johannus is expanding > and just moved into a brand new facility 3X larger > than the old one, just to keep up with the demand of > their ever increasing customer base.Customers that > really know their stuff have discovered that Johannus > is technically far ahead of anything anyone else has > to offer in the digital organ world.Johannus is the > only one rapidly expanding, even in these troubled > times of economic uncertainty. Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cremona502@cs.com > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 3:00 AM > Subject: Re: Juels[sp?] > In a message dated 8/8/02 4:55:24 PM > !!!First Boot!!!, RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org > writes: > > > > > Yet another question concerning organs, > > digital organs. Can anyone on this > > list recommend the proper circuit breaker > > for a medium sized digital organ? > > A large mallet should do it!!! ;-) > heeheehee > > Bruce in the Muttestery at Howling Acres > http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 > ...an opportunity for health & wealth > http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053 >    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:18:54 +0000   Yes Bud - but discussing the relative merits of the sound of different electronics is not pipe v digital! John Foss   http://www.geocities.com/harfo32/JohnFossathome.html   _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Johannus Organs From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 13:36:59 EDT   Andrew Mead writes:     >I think those who bought a Johannus organ "just a year or so ago" should = be >"certain to see and hear the newest models" that are "light years ahead = of >what was available...." <<   And this would also apply to those who bought just ahead of Renaissance = and PDI technologies, wouldn't it? Dem's da breaks.   Best wishes, Jim P  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 13:04:09 -0500   >Yes Bud - but discussing the relative merits of the sound of >different electronics is not pipe v digital! >John Foss > >http://www.geocities.com/harfo32/JohnFossathome.html > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: ALL READ!!! Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 13:13:50 -0500   >Yes Bud - but discussing the relative merits of the sound of >different electronics is not pipe v digital! >John Foss   First of all a BIG WOOPS for sending off this post again without my = comments -   There is a "sister" list to this one the EORG-L list where I think this discussion would be better. I basically asked that the discussion be closed but it still carries on. I think it is time to end it!   Actually some of what i am hearing in these various posts sounds just like "sales pitches" without the person doing the posting identifying themselves as an EORG salesperson. If that is the case I am a bit disappointed in those members doing this since if you are representing a company you should be open about it.   Over the last several days we have been losing members probably over this topic - something that most of us are getting very tired of hearing about. PLEASE, let's drop this and move on to something else.   David   BTW: here is the subscription info for the EORG-L list if you want to carry on this topic over there where it is much more appropriate. List-Subscribe: <mailto:EORG-L-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:EORG-L-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:EORG-L-off@pipechat.org>     -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "Mack" <mack02445@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:50:00 -0400   True JOhn,   But it is just as endless, boring, and unwinable to the vast majority of us as the PvE debate. Why not do it privately or on the electronic list, there is one.   Mack   John Foss wrote:   > Yes Bud - but discussing the relative merits of the sound of different > electronics is not pipe v digital! > John Foss > >      
(back) Subject: Re: ALL READ!!! Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "Mack" <mack02445@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:52:43 -0400   Sorry Daid,   I did not see your post before I lit the match <g> accept my appologies.   Mack    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: <Icedad@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:27:20 EDT     --part1_c9.267789f8.2a86c318_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear Mack,   What is the address for the electronic list? Thanks   Daniel   --part1_c9.267789f8.2a86c318_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">Dear Mack, <BR> <BR> What is the address for the electronic list? Thanks<BR> <BR> &nbsp; Daniel</FONT></HTML>   --part1_c9.267789f8.2a86c318_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:14:02 +0000   Dear David Absolutely right - I said at the beginning "not again" - but once the argument had started it was difficult to keep out of it! I will do my best =   to shut up! John     _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "Mack" <mack02445@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:31:24 -0400   For anyone else that needs it Eorg-L site is   http://www.gulfcst.com/eorg-l/   Icedad@aol.com wrote:   > Dear Mack, > > What is the address for the electronic list? Thanks > > Daniel      
(back) Subject: Re: Allen vs. Johannus, etc. etc. etc. From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:09:29 -0500   >Dear Mack, > >What is the address for the electronic list? Thanks > > Daniel   if you had read my posting you would have found all the subscription information at the bottom of it - so here it is again   List-Subscribe: <mailto:EORG-L-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:EORG-L-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:EORG-L-off@pipechat.org>   David   -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org