PipeChat Digest #3079 - Tuesday, August 20, 2002
 
Re: PipeChat Digest #3074 - 08/19/02
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Announcing Hymns
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Definitely NOT electronic organs!
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Busch Reisinger Flentrop, was Definitely NOT electronic organs!
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Creative Hymn Intros and Knowing When to Start Singing
  by "straight" <straight@infoblvd.net>
Re: Sheet Music Site
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Chuckerbutty, Conte and Steve Lawson
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
RE: Wrong Word
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Wrong Word
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3078 - 08/20/02
  by "Carol Scott" <dclscott@skyenet.net>
Organs in Acoustically Dead Spaces
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
is there chat on line tonight?
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Re: Organs in Acoustically Dead Spaces
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: is there chat on line tonight?
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: is there chat on line tonight?
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Re: is there chat on line tonight?
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: Organs in Acoustically Dead Spaces
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: is there chat on line tonight?
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: Organs in Acoustically Dead Spaces
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3074 - 08/19/02 From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:31:25 EDT     --part1_a6.2afa31e7.2a941d3d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/19/02 7:52:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:     > Funny thing with our recent organists (three, over 10 years or > so, and all of them of some considerable spiritual/musical sensitivity): > They take a leisurely break from the final word of the sermon until the > beginning of the hymn to follow. Five-second break: Sermon worthy of > little or no contemplation whatso at all. Thirty seconds dead silence: > Something worth thinking about, there! A full minute or more (it = happens!): > Now THERE'S something to mull over for a while! And some preachers = (and > guest preachers) are AWARE of this measuring stick; they don't have to = like >   How neat. Ever have an organist start playing quietly about half-way through the sermon?? This is a common practice in AME church in these = parts and is often quite dramatic.   Bruce in the Muttastery at Howling Acres = http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 ....an opportunity for health & wealth http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053   --part1_a6.2afa31e7.2a941d3d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 8/19/02 7:52:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, acfreed0904@earthlink.net = writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Funny thing with = our recent organists (three, over 10 years or <BR>so, and all of them of some considerable spiritual/musical = sensitivity): <BR>They take a leisurely break from the final word of the sermon until = the <BR>beginning of the hymn to follow. &nbsp;Five-second break: &nbsp;Sermon = worthy of <BR>little or no contemplation whatso at all. &nbsp;Thirty seconds dead = silence: <BR>Something worth thinking about, there! &nbsp;A full minute or more (it = happens!): <BR>Now THERE'S something to mull over for a while! &nbsp;&nbsp;And some = preachers (and <BR>guest preachers) are AWARE of this measuring stick; they don't have to = like <BR>it, but it's real!</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>How neat. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Ever have an organist start playing = quietly about half-way through the sermon?? &nbsp;&nbsp;This is a common = practice in AME church in these parts and is often quite dramatic. <BR> <BR>Bruce in the Muttastery at Howling Acres = http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 <BR>...an opportunity for health &amp; wealth = &nbsp;http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053</FONT></HTML>   --part1_a6.2afa31e7.2a941d3d_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Announcing Hymns From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:31:30 EDT     --part1_ac.2c21fd79.2a941d42_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/19/02 10:22:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = RVScara@aol.com writes:     > Want people to sing? Make it easy and appealing. I don't repeat hymns = until > 6 - 8 weekends pass; at least the music changes!   This is where I disagree. If you want people to sing hymns must be = repeated enough to become familiar, and then become learned and loved. Look how often Eagle Wings has been sung. Most people (myself included) can sing = it from memory (not something I'm happy about, but a fact nevertheless). I =   feel very fortunate that I grew up in a church where hymns were repeated frequently enough that I was allowed to memorize text and music.   Bruce in the Muttastery at Howling Acres = http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 ....an opportunity for health & wealth http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053   --part1_ac.2c21fd79.2a941d42_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 8/19/02 10:22:24 PM Eastern = Daylight Time, RVScara@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial Black" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE = style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Want people to sing? Make it easy and appealing. I = don't repeat hymns until &nbsp;6 - 8 &nbsp;weekends pass; &nbsp;at least = the music changes! &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial Black" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>This is where I disagree. &nbsp;If you want people to sing hymns must = be repeated enough to become familiar, and then become learned and loved. = &nbsp;&nbsp;Look how often Eagle Wings has been sung. &nbsp;Most people = (myself included) can sing it from memory (not something I'm happy about, = but a fact nevertheless). &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I feel very fortunate that I = grew up in a church where hymns were repeated frequently enough that I was = allowed to memorize text and music. <BR> <BR>Bruce in the Muttastery at Howling Acres = http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 <BR>...an opportunity for health &amp; wealth = &nbsp;http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053</FONT></HTML>   --part1_ac.2c21fd79.2a941d42_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Definitely NOT electronic organs! From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:31:29 EDT     --part1_17d.d0a9fb6.2a941d41_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/19/02 9:51:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gdeboer@bluemarble.net writes:     > It is agreed then, that when you don't have good acoustics it would = break a > great organ or in other words it will sound terrible and is not worth > listening to. >   Not from where I sit. For almost ten years I listened to the beautiful = A-S at Christ Church Cathedral - Houston TX . The room is slightly live, but = no reverberation. I've heard too many very fine instruments in dead rooms. = The thought that putting a fake organ in a bad room only adds insult to injury. A good builder can make an organ sound good in a bad room. If = you want a digital, fine. But don't use a bad room as an excuse not to get a pipe organ. If your preference is a digital sound at least be honest and = say so, and take the credit/blame!   Bruce in the Muttastery at Howling Acres = http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 ....an opportunity for health & wealth http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053   --part1_17d.d0a9fb6.2a941d41_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 8/19/02 9:51:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gdeboer@bluemarble.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It is agreed then, = that when you don't have good acoustics it would break a <BR>great organ or in other words it will sound terrible and is not worth <BR>listening to. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Not from where I sit. &nbsp;&nbsp;For almost ten years I listened to = the beautiful A-S at Christ Church Cathedral - Houston TX . = &nbsp;&nbsp;The room is slightly live, but no reverberation. = &nbsp;&nbsp;I've heard too many very fine instruments in dead rooms. = &nbsp;&nbsp;The thought that putting a fake organ in a bad room only adds = insult to injury. &nbsp;&nbsp;A good builder can make an organ sound good = in a bad room. &nbsp;&nbsp;If you want a digital, fine. &nbsp;But don't = use a bad room as an excuse not to get a pipe organ. &nbsp;If your = preference is a digital sound at least be honest and say so, and take the = credit/blame! <BR> <BR>Bruce in the Muttastery at Howling Acres = http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 <BR>...an opportunity for health &amp; wealth = &nbsp;http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053</FONT></HTML>   --part1_17d.d0a9fb6.2a941d41_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Busch Reisinger Flentrop, was Definitely NOT electronic organs! From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:36:19 EDT     --part1_c3.278ee95d.2a941e63_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 8/20/02 9:43:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stevec@open-tech.com writes:     > My impression was that the organ didn't have nearly as much chiff as was =   > evident in the Biggs recordings. Also the space itself is fairly small, = but > quite tall (35 - 40' in diameter) and all stone. Needless to say the = sound > is very live, the organ is also fairly small and is a nice match with = the > room. Because the floor is a good 15 feet below the organ most of the > initial sound goes over the audience's heads. Most of the sound you hear = on >   Steve, I heard the Flentrop at the OHS convention in Boston several years ago, = and my impression is basically the same as yours. The organ has a more = gentle presence than one would expect from the Biggs recordings. I liked it very =   much. And the room is wonderful in every way.... aurally, visually, aesthetically. It was a wonderful experience.   Bruce in the Muttastery at Howling Acres = http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 ....an opportunity for health & wealth http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053   --part1_c3.278ee95d.2a941e63_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 8/20/02 9:43:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stevec@open-tech.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">My impression was = that the organ didn't have nearly as much chiff as was evident in the = Biggs recordings. Also the space itself is fairly small, but quite tall = (35 - 40' in diameter) and all stone. Needless to say the sound is very = live, the organ is also fairly small and is a nice match with the room. = Because the floor is a good 15 feet below the organ most of the initial = sound goes over the audience's heads. Most of the sound you hear on the = floor is reflected. Can anyone else comment on this = instrument?</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>Steve, <BR>I heard the Flentrop at the OHS convention in Boston several years = ago, and my impression is basically the same as yours. &nbsp;&nbsp;The = organ has a more gentle presence than one would expect from the Biggs = recordings. &nbsp;I liked it very much. &nbsp;&nbsp;And the room is = wonderful in every way.... aurally, visually, aesthetically. &nbsp;It was = a wonderful experience. <BR> <BR>Bruce in the Muttastery at Howling Acres = http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 <BR>...an opportunity for health &amp; wealth = &nbsp;http://visionsuccess.com/BC2053</FONT></HTML>   --part1_c3.278ee95d.2a941e63_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Creative Hymn Intros and Knowing When to Start Singing From: "straight" <straight@infoblvd.net> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:55:05 -0400   You also need to make a clean break. Come to an obvious end, lift your hands and stop the sound entirely for a second ----that's their cue. They respond to that really well, especially if you do it consistently. I think a lot of people don't realize how much communication there is to good hymn playing. The people respond to what you do, and I respond to them also. It's a back and forth dialogue, subtle, but it's there. Of course it makes a difference whether you can hear them singing or not also, and whether or not you're in a situation with a long time lag. Even so, if you send the right cues, they'll sing.   Diane S. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<Since I got this thread started, I'll explain what I do and how I do it.......   What I have found to work well is that at the end of a big intro, I always end with either the last couple of measures of the hymn, or a cadence of a phrase of a hymn, putting a big fermata on it, so the final chord is held. It also works well to end on the V chord--the musical tension that is built up alerts the congregation that something is going to happen, namely that they are needed to sing the 1st verse of the hymn. I think that it is usually pretty clear to the congregation when it's time for them to sing....creative intros give them time to rustle their bulletins, get a tissue out of their pocketbook, flip to the correct page in the hymnal, tell their children to stop fidgiting, etc. By the time the organist has played the intro, the congregation is ready to sing.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Sheet Music Site From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:47:49 -0500   David: Thanks to you for the site info....very nice and i know of several of my "band" and "vocal" friends that will enjoy knowing about it too.   jon bertschinger  
(back) Subject: Chuckerbutty, Conte and Steve Lawson From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:03:24 -0500   I played Chuckerbutty's "Queen's Procession" (thanks to Mark McClellan - please contact me if you read this) as a postlude for the new bishop's visit last year! Was accused of making up the composer's name by the priest.   I believe Peter Conte also recorded the Chuckerbutty "Paean" on his Laguna Beach CD.   Speaking of Conte, I had received a Phillip Truckenbrod demo many months ago. I did not bother to listen to it then because I am out of the recital business. However, I found it today and listened to it on the way to court. One of the recitalists was Conte, and I was again struck by how talented he truly is. I once remarked that there are two types of performers: those who make it seem easy, and those who make it seem hard. Conte is of the latter, because what he does IS HARD! Hearing him play, however, brought back very pleasant memories of hearing him at the Region IV AGO convention last year, doing "The Sorceror's Apprentice", and of my visit to Lord & Taylor to hear the organ.   And to tie all this in to Steve, on this very CD was a recording of Laughton and O'Meara doing "La Rejouissance" by G.P. Telemann, on organ and trumpet (or trumpet and organ, of course). I have no idea whether they transcribed it from something else, or whether it could be transcribed for solo organ (surely it could). But it is a neat little piece replete with echo. I of course would never use a trumpet in such an intimate setting as you describe, even in a big room - one needs all the live bodies one can to absorb the sound of those nasty things. And of course, if I had your organ, I would be doing big romantic stuff anyway. But it is so cute and short, perfect for a wedding recessional/postlude.   There - I'm done.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com (who only showed her butt once in court today)   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Morgan   There is one nice piece entitled "Paen" recorded by James Culp on the organ at First Presbyterian Church in Kilgore, Texas where Roy Perry was for many years. It is on the Pickwick label in The Orchid Series. The CD is ORCD 11019. That is the only recording I know of which includes a composition of Chuckerbutty.        
(back) Subject: RE: Wrong Word From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:03:24 -0500   Pronouncing it that way in the South will brand you a Yank for sure.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message-----     on 8/20/02 2:52 PM, Emmons, Paul at pemmons@wcupa.edu wrote:   > Two mispronunciations drive me batty: > > 1) All clergy, readers, and choir members should be clear that the word > "err" is all rrr.          
(back) Subject: Re: Wrong Word From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:23:33 -0400   On 8/20/02 7:03 PM, "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote:   > Pronouncing it that way in the South will brand you a Yank for sure. > Which is, of course, a . . . compliment? (Or . . . not?)   Alan (grumpy tonight; 'scuse?)      
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3078 - 08/20/02 From: "Carol Scott" <dclscott@skyenet.net> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:31:09 -0400   =46rom the American Heritage Dictionary, by way of dictionary.com (one sy= mbol didn't translate, but I think you'll get the drift):   Usage Note: The pronunciation (=FBr) for the word err is traditional, but= the pronunciation (ar) has gained ground in recent years, perhaps owing to influence from e= rrant and error, and must now be regarded as an acceptable variant. The Usage Panel was split on = the matter: 56 percent preferred (=FBr), 34 percent preferred (ar), and 10 percent accepted both pronunciati= ons.   I simply can't remember the last time we used "aye" in the sense you ment= ion, as we don't use the older translations any more. So both of these = come under the heading of "don't sweat the small stuff" to me... not to m= ention being rather off topic.   Carol Scott   > Subject: RE: Wrong Word > From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:52:54 -0400 > > Two mispronunciations drive me batty: > > 1) All clergy, readers, and choir members should be clear that the word=   > "err" is all rrr. If everyone in your congregation works in the mass m= edia, > then no doubt it would make sense to confess "we have aired and strayed= like > lost sheep"-- but not otherwise. > > 2) The pronunciation of "aye" depends on the meaning. It sounds like "= eye" > if it means "yes," but usually in religious texts it means "forever", = and > then it should be pronounced as a long A. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------    
(back) Subject: Organs in Acoustically Dead Spaces From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:26:29 -0400   ----- Original Message ----- From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 9:06 PM Subject: Re: Definitely NOT electronic organs!     No amount of voicing or vintage pipes for the same size building > which is dead, would capture the majesty so evident in a live room. > The builder then is at the mercy of a room without any mercy whatever. > The acoustics of the room in otherwords make or break a great organ. > In fact it is one of the most necessary stops on an organ, either you > have it or you don't. > Desirable, absolutely yes, necessary, no. Every friday at 12:15, in excess of 200 people attend an organ recital at Trinity Church, Boston, and hear real majesty and excitement in a dead room.   Perhaps it is on "the other list" that some people love to hate, that = there was not all that long ago an intelligent and interesting discussion about how the great 19th century American builders, the Hooks, Johnsons, etc. = knew well how to build impressive instruments that projected their sound into = the far corners of large, acoustically dead spaces without shouting or screaming. I have been in many acoustically dead English parish churches = in which organs, even sited in chancel chambers, managed to richly fill the building with sound. There are fine builders here and abroad that have worked all that out, and prove that it can be done time after time. I = don't think the answer to a dead building has to be a digital instrument.   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com      
(back) Subject: is there chat on line tonight? From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:51:50 -0500   jon  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs in Acoustically Dead Spaces From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:29:59 +1200   Malcolm et al, I agree thoroughly. Reverberation helps, but is not essential to create a good pipe sound. After all, to mention just three places: King's = Cambridge, Westminster Abbey and Southwark are all very dead, and Southwark has the disadvantage of a bad placement as well. Yet all sound good, Southwark absolutely great. King's, from the records, sounds as if it has good reverberation. In fact it hasn't, as the extensive glass windows remove = the mid and low frequencies and the building is too big for any helpful = support for high frequencies. I was most disappointed to find out just how dead it sounds in real life. That there are lousy organs sounding fair in good buildings cannot be denied. That there are also good organs in bad buildings cannot be denied. And there's a lot of mediocre everywhere as well. Ross   >No amount of voicing or vintage pipes for the same size building >> which is dead, would capture the majesty so evident in a live room. >> The builder then is at the mercy of a room without any mercy whatever. >> The acoustics of the room in otherwords make or break a great organ. >> In fact it is one of the most necessary stops on an organ, either you >> have it or you don't. >> >Desirable, absolutely yes, necessary, no. Every friday at 12:15, in = excess >of 200 people attend an organ recital at Trinity Church, Boston, and hear >real majesty and excitement in a dead room. > >Perhaps it is on "the other list" that some people love to hate, that = there >was not all that long ago an intelligent and interesting discussion about >how the great 19th century American builders, the Hooks, Johnsons, etc. knew >well how to build impressive instruments that projected their sound into the >far corners of large, acoustically dead spaces without shouting or >screaming. I have been in many acoustically dead English parish churches = in >which organs, even sited in chancel chambers, managed to richly fill the >building with sound. There are fine builders here and abroad that have >worked all that out, and prove that it can be done time after time. I = don't >think the answer to a dead building has to be a digital instrument. > >Cheers, > >Malcolm Wechsler >www.mander-organs.com > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: is there chat on line tonight? From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:19:49 -0400   Jon, 'et al',   No there is no chat on line this evening, - we gather together on Mondays and Fridays at 9.00 pm Eastern Time   Bob Conway     At 07:51 PM 8/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >jon > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: is there chat on line tonight? From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:01:57 -0500   Geese...this IS tuesday? hmmm...forgot to change the calandar at work yesterday.   Jon  
(back) Subject: Re: is there chat on line tonight? From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:38:06 EDT   jonberts@magiccablepc.com wrote:       > Geese...this IS tuesday? hmmm...forgot to change the > calandar at > work yesterday.     Don't see why we can't chat if we wish.... do you have Instant Messenger, Jon, or shall we meet in the room? :-)  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs in Acoustically Dead Spaces From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:40:12 EDT   I am in agreement with Malcolm Wechsler here. I don't know what percentage of Mr. Severin's installations are in = dead rooms using vintage pipework, versus live rooms with new pipes that Mr. Severin is voicing from scratch. However, many fine instruments are = scaled, built, voiced, and finished in rooms that present challenges to the = builder. Organbuilders have been doing that for centuries, long before Ben Franklin =   flew his kite. There have been some intelligent exchanges on both major organ = chatlists regarding what a vast, liquid acoustic does to organ music. With the exception of ultimate chords, cavernous rooms destroy polyphony, subtelty, =   phrasing, voice leading, and clarity. As an aside, it is not helpful to choral, chamber, or solo instrumental music either. An ideal room enhances sound, and gives it a bit of time to "do its thing." Yes, there is an immature fascination, early on, with very loud organs, played very rapidly, in smeary, confusing rooms, but that agenda = may do more damage to the organ than good. Some tonal directors and fine musicians actually dread such rooms. Neither can produce true nuance under =   those conditions. A recent mostly-pipe organ installed in a major Northeast city, = coupled with its fake "enhanced reverberation" acoustic, got disappointing reviews = in the press. Intended to be a showpiece, it has died a quiet death in the musical and organ communities. Had they just built a properly scaled organ = in the 150-year-old room (and the builder in question COULD have done so -- = they have the talent and the knowledge), people still might be buzzing about it =   today. People with "more knowledge" intervened.   Sebastian Matthaus Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: is there chat on line tonight? From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:47:23 -0500     jon bertschinger wrote: > Geese...this IS tuesday? hmmm...forgot to change the calandar at > work yesterday. So, Jon,   You missed work and no one said anything???   LOLOL!   Faithfully,   Grandpa Arp -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: Re: Organs in Acoustically Dead Spaces From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:32:50 -0700     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>   > Malcolm et al, > I agree thoroughly. Reverberation helps, but is not essential to create = a > good pipe sound. After all, to mention just three places: King's Cambridge, > Westminster Abbey and Southwark are all very dead, and Southwark has the > disadvantage of a bad placement as well.       Well, these things are relative, but by NO stretch of the imagination or = of language can I understand how those three rooms can be called "very dead." They may have various shortcomings, but "dead" is a very different matter.   And as has been pointed out previously, even Southwark's bad/odd placement is mitigated if you listen at the front of the south transept. I've met dozens if not hundreds of organs that don't sound good from anywhere.   Michael Fox