PipeChat Digest #3298 - Saturday, December 14, 2002
 
Re: Technically Flawless
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: French Ornaments
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Technicians or Musicians
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: What Does "Technically Flawless" Mean or Imply?
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Ornaments, Felix, Cameron and life
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Technically Flawless Criticism
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Technically Flawless
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Technically Flawless
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: Technically Flawless
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: Technically Flawless
  by "Peter Harrison" <peter@phmusic.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Technically Flawless From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 20:42:26 -0500   On 12/13/02 8:34 PM, "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> wrote:   > Dear Lee, > As much as I hate to see anyone's posted remarks > become a football to be passed, carried and kicked > around like yours did, I suggest you look at the > positive stimulation it caused, and the lessons we all > learned as a result.   Thank you, Mike. Nice words, well said.   Sorry about a bad experience, and hope fervently that the sore can be healed. It should not remain open.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: French Ornaments From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:51:42 EST     --part1_6.49a4282.2b2bf6be_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Lets not forget that improvisation of ornamentation WAS a practice of that =   time. I think that one who has studied enough Italian, French, Spanish, = and German styles of harpsichord and organ playing should be able to improvise =   stylistically correct ornaments using their EARS and judgement. Don't = loose sleep! Gfc   --part1_6.49a4282.2b2bf6be_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Lets not forget that = improvisation of ornamentation WAS a practice of that time. &nbsp;I think = that one who has studied enough Italian, French, Spanish, and German = styles of harpsichord and organ playing should be able to improvise = stylistically correct ornaments using their EARS and judgement. = &nbsp;Don't loose sleep! <BR>Gfc</FONT></HTML>   --part1_6.49a4282.2b2bf6be_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Technicians or Musicians From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:52:37 EST     --part1_7f.30ca1fcf.2b2bf6f5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ---"especially the non-organists"   that's for sure!   --part1_7f.30ca1fcf.2b2bf6f5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>---"especially the = non-organists" <BR> <BR>that's for sure!</FONT></HTML>   --part1_7f.30ca1fcf.2b2bf6f5_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: What Does "Technically Flawless" Mean or Imply? From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:01:41 EST     --part1_62.29fcc51d.2b2bf915_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Sometimes I think it is healthy to "call a spade a spade," and to leave it = at that. Interpret that how you will.   --part1_62.29fcc51d.2b2bf915_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sometimes I think it is = healthy to "call a spade a spade," and to leave it at that. = &nbsp;Interpret that how you will.</FONT></HTML>   --part1_62.29fcc51d.2b2bf915_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Ornaments, Felix, Cameron and life From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:05:06 EST     --part1_12.2a297e24.2b2bf9e2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   In a message dated 12/13/2002 2:42:44 PM Central Standard Time,=3D20 gksjd85@direcway.com writes:     > Back in 1996 I went to a George Ritchie masterclass on Bach (not = French)=3D20 > ornaments, thinking I would get a definitive =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cwhen you see = this ma=3D rk, you=3D20 > ALWAYS do this=3DE2=3D80=3D9D ( a la Schweitzer) on ornaments. However, = he disc=3D ussed=3D20 > various ways the trills, mordents, turns and arpeggios have been=3D20 >=3D20   remember that bach was heavily influenced by both french and italian=3D20 compositional styles---i.e..organ concertos(vivaldi), french suites, = italian=3D =3D20 concerto etc.....that means his ornaments were too!   --part1_12.2a297e24.2b2bf9e2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>In a message dated = 12/13/=3D 2002 2:42:44 PM Central Standard Time, gksjd85@direcway.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Back in 1996 I went to a = Ge=3D orge Ritchie masterclass on Bach (not French) ornaments, thinking I would = ge=3D t a definitive =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cwhen you see this mark, you ALWAYS do = this=3DE2=3D80=3D9D=3D20=3D ( a la Schweitzer) on ornaments. &nbsp;However, he discussed various ways = th=3D e trills, mordents, turns and arpeggios have been interpreted, and = encourage=3D d us to explore</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>remember that bach was heavily influenced by both french and italian = com=3D positional styles---i.e..organ concertos(vivaldi), french suites, italian = co=3D ncerto etc.....that means his ornaments were too!</FONT></HTML>   --part1_12.2a297e24.2b2bf9e2_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Technically Flawless Criticism From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:11:25 EST   Dear PipeChatters: Technique and musicianship are not mutually exclusive. The = availability of a myriad of performances, accurately (mis?)represented through recordings, has afforded us a great deal of comparative ability in modern times. This has led to the generalized opinion that technical mastery is = akin to emotional sterility in performance. What is most disturbing about this exchange is that we seem to be = using the veil of musicological theory and performance practice to not only = praise those we like, but bash those we dislike. Is the "cult of the personality" =   interfering with the objective evaluation of the subjective?   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: Technically Flawless From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:36:11 EST     --part1_4d.28d8c119.2b2c012b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   It's been a while since I have interjected, so here goes...   Felix Hell is an unusual musician, in that he has technical facility and = an artistic ability for so young.   Were he NOT to have the artistic, I think it would still be fine for him = to be "technically flawless". Artistry usually comes with growth, age, and experience anyhow.   So many folks, it seems to me particulary in this day and age, want to = rush to the artistic side of things before they are technically able to = negotiate the music successfully.   Neil by the Rainy Bay   --part1_4d.28d8c119.2b2c012b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">It's been a while since I have interjected, so = here goes...<BR> <BR> Felix Hell is an unusual musician, in that he has technical facility and = an artistic ability for so young.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> Were he NOT to have the artistic,&nbsp; I think it would still be fine for = him to be "technically flawless".&nbsp; Artistry usually comes with = growth, age, and experience anyhow.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> So many folks, it seems to me particulary in this day and age, want to = rush to the artistic side of things before they are technically able to = negotiate the music successfully.<BR> <BR> Neil by the Rainy Bay</FONT></HTML>   --part1_4d.28d8c119.2b2c012b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Technically Flawless From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:43:49 EST     --part1_29.337db732.2b2c1105_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Mike, you are a real gentleman. Thanks for the post. Lee   --part1_29.337db732.2b2c1105_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Mike, you are a real gentleman.&nbsp; Thanks for = the post.&nbsp; Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_29.337db732.2b2c1105_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Technically Flawless From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:53:41 EST     --part1_152.18dd3202.2b2c1355_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Neil, you said exactly what I was trying to imply. Lee   --part1_152.18dd3202.2b2c1355_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Neil, you said exactly what I was trying to = imply.&nbsp; Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_152.18dd3202.2b2c1355_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Technically Flawless From: "Peter Harrison" <peter@phmusic.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 08:14:18 -0000   Dear Lee and List,   I'm sorry if this seemed to stir some people in less than positive ways. = My query was only meant to help me, and perhaps others who have never heard Felix Hell play, to better understand what seems to be regularly described on this and other email lists as the phenomenon of a relatively young performer with a playing style well beyond most others of much greater years.   Instrumental teaching often emphasises the development of technical skills and in most cases, it is only later, if ever, that true musical creativity develops.   I have to admit to being one who reassures himself that if my playing has any merit, it must be on the artistic side as the technical is so horribly flawed!   Peter   Peter M Harrison   Subject: Re: Technically Flawless | From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> | Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 19:23:49 EST | | | --part1_172.1334a8ea.2b2bd415_boundary | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit | | My post which included "technically flawless" was in reference to a | post | asking about the playing of Felix Hell playing "The Wedge" by Bach. | It was | indeed artistic, as is all his playing. I now bow to the more erudite | critics of organ music to review the concert. Malcolm has heard Mr. | Hell, as | has Mr. Morgan and Mr. Pitts, and Peter, who is at OCU. If you have | any | more questions about his playing of this particularly piece, please | address | your post to them. Lee