PipeChat Digest #3327 - Thursday, December 26, 2002
 
Solo stops
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Cornet/Sesquialtera - Solo/Chorus
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: HTML
  by "Peter Harrison" <peter@phmusic.co.uk>
Re: Cornet/Sesquialtera - Solo/Chorus
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
FW: A merry Christmas to all . . .
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Tierce from Undulating Rank
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: fundamentals and harmonics
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Tierce from Undulating Rank
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
"derived" Tierces, etc.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Greetings
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Re: Which Harmonic
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: HTML
  by "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org>
Re: HTML Workaround for AOL
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Which Harmonic
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Solo stops From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:43:43 EST     --part1_4e.15858cbf.2b3c6f9f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   List,   This question applies to small organs of 10-15 stops....   On most organs, it appears that there are probably 2 contrasting solo = stops. Often, there is an Oboe 8' and a Cremona 8' or a Cornet/Sesquialtera. = I've seen Clarinet as well. I also understand that the 8' Open Diapason as = well as a Flute can function as a solo voice as well.   I've heard that many reed stops require more maintenance, and that they = may be considered a luxury for the home organ.   For those of you who play small organs, which stops do you find yourself using most often for solo work?   Given the following possibilities (other than 8' open or 8' flute), which = two would you find most useful on a small organ? 1. 8' Oboe 2. 8' Cremone/Krummhorn 3. Cornet (combined with a unison flute) 4. 8' Clarinet 5. 8' Trumpet 6. Sesquialtera (I understand this is 2 2/3 + 1 3/5 of Principal pipes, = not Flutes)   Most of the schemes I've considered consist of 8' Oboe on Swell and Cornet/Sesquialtera on Great. I've seen Cremona with these as well.   1. I understand that the Cremona is often played against the Cornet (as = in the French Noels).   2. In my limited experience, I've tended to prefer the Cornet of Flutes = (8' + 2 2/3 + 1 3/5) over that made from Principals. I often see Sesquialtera = on small organs. It sounds pretty good to me, but I've heard that the flute cornet goes OK with a principal better than the reverse, and that a Flute Cornet is more useful than that made with Principals (Sesquialtera).   3. If one picks 3 from the list, I would supppose that the Oboe would be = on the Swell, the Cremona on the Great, and the Cornet on the Swell. If one just chooses the Oboe and the Cornet, they would be opposite each other, = with Cornet on Great to be accompanied by the Swell stops.   Anyway, any suggestions for small organs would be appreciated. Keith   --part1_4e.15858cbf.2b3c6f9f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">List,<BR> <BR> This question applies to small organs of 10-15 stops....<BR> <BR> On most organs, it appears that there are probably 2 contrasting solo = stops.&nbsp; Often, there is an Oboe 8' and a Cremona 8' or a = Cornet/Sesquialtera.&nbsp; I've seen Clarinet as well.&nbsp; I also = understand that the 8' Open Diapason as well as a Flute can function as a = solo voice as well.<BR> <BR> I've heard that many reed stops require more maintenance, and that they = may be considered a luxury for the home organ.<BR> <BR> For those of you who play small organs, which stops do you find yourself = using most often for solo work?<BR> <BR> Given the following possibilities (other than 8' open or 8' flute), which = two would you find most useful on a small organ?<BR> 1.&nbsp; 8' Oboe<BR> 2.&nbsp; 8' Cremone/Krummhorn<BR> 3.&nbsp; Cornet (combined with a unison flute)<BR> 4.&nbsp; 8' Clarinet<BR> 5.&nbsp; 8' Trumpet<BR> 6.&nbsp; Sesquialtera (I understand this is 2 2/3 + 1 3/5 of Principal = pipes, not Flutes)<BR> <BR> Most of the schemes I've considered consist of 8' Oboe on Swell and = Cornet/Sesquialtera on Great.&nbsp; I've seen Cremona with these as = well.<BR> <BR> 1.&nbsp; I understand that the Cremona is often played against the Cornet = (as in the French Noels).<BR> <BR> 2.&nbsp; In my limited experience, I've tended to prefer the Cornet of = Flutes (8' + 2 2/3 + 1 3/5) over that made from Principals.&nbsp; I often = see Sesquialtera on small organs.&nbsp; It sounds pretty good to me, but = I've heard that the flute cornet goes OK with a principal better than the = reverse, and that a Flute Cornet is more useful than that made with = Principals (Sesquialtera).<BR> <BR> 3.&nbsp; If one picks 3 from the list, I would supppose that the Oboe = would be on the Swell, the Cremona on the Great, and the Cornet on the = Swell.&nbsp; If one just chooses the Oboe and the Cornet, they would be opposite each other, with = Cornet on Great to be accompanied by the Swell stops.<BR> <BR> Anyway, any suggestions for small organs would be appreciated.<BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_4e.15858cbf.2b3c6f9f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Cornet/Sesquialtera - Solo/Chorus From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:02:05 EST     --part1_114.1ca44f99.2b3c73ed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   List,   I decided to post this question separately from my Solo stop message. = I've felt that the 12th and 19th work well in chorus work. To me that means = that they can be drawn with other stops and used in chords. I've been under = the impression that the 1 3/5 (17th) doesn't function well in chorus work and = is almost always used in a solo combination (usually the Cornet). Am I = correct so far.   Some of the smaller organs I've looked at have a 4' Principal basis. They =   will have an 8' Flute, 4' Principal, plus a Sesquialtera on the Great. = I've sensed, from some recordings, that the Sesquialtera is drawn to add volume =   and brightness.   Regarding the term "chorus work", I've always tho't that as meaning larger =   combinations as in building the plenum. I've also assumed that it meant = more chord-type works. On some recordings of Bach, there has been plenty of volume, but the playing has been a constantly moving parts consisting of = only 2 or 3 notes actually sounding together as opposed to a final hymn verse = that involved the use of large chords. In a little pamphlet on the = descriptions of organ pitches I read many years ago, I remember seeing the phrase = "avoid using this in large chords". It was speaking about a couple of the higher =   mutations.   I guess, I'm asking for a distinction - in terms of "functionality" or "usefulness" - between the Cornet (either fixed combination or decompose') =   and the Sesquialtera. Whether, for solo use, either should be combined = with the Unison Diapason or Flute (which one?).   If you've found the Sesquialtera (or the 1 3/5 to be more specific) to be useful in other combinations, please define what you mean by chorus work - =   large chords as in hymns or brightness as in some of the Bach fugues.   Thanks, Keith   PS. I tried the thing about highlighting the text and clicking "normal" = to see if it prevents the repetition of the message found in the digest.   --part1_114.1ca44f99.2b3c73ed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">List,<BR> <BR> I decided to post this question separately from my Solo stop = message.&nbsp; I've felt that the 12th and 19th work well in chorus = work.&nbsp; To me that means that they can be drawn with other stops and = used in chords.&nbsp; I've been under the impression that the 1 3/5 (17th) = doesn't function well in chorus work and is almost always used in a solo = combination (usually the Cornet).&nbsp; Am I correct so far.<BR> <BR> Some of the smaller organs I've looked at have a 4' Principal basis.&nbsp; = They will have an 8' Flute, 4' Principal, plus a Sesquialtera on the = Great.&nbsp; I've sensed, from some recordings, that the Sesquialtera is = drawn to add volume and brightness.<BR> <BR> Regarding the term "chorus work", I've always tho't that as meaning larger = combinations as in building the plenum.&nbsp; I've also assumed that it = meant more chord-type works.&nbsp; On some recordings of Bach, there has = been plenty of volume, but the playing has been a constantly moving parts = consisting of only 2 or 3 notes actually sounding together as opposed to a = final hymn verse that involved the use of large chords.&nbsp; In a little = pamphlet on the descriptions of organ pitches I read many years ago, I = remember seeing the phrase "avoid using this in large chords".&nbsp; It = was speaking about a couple of the higher mutations.<BR> <BR> I guess, I'm asking for a distinction - in terms of "functionality" or = "usefulness" - between the Cornet (either fixed combination or decompose') = and the Sesquialtera.&nbsp; Whether, for solo use, either should be = combined with the Unison Diapason or Flute (which one?).<BR> <BR> If you've found the Sesquialtera (or the 1 3/5 to be more specific) to be = useful in other combinations, please define what you mean by chorus work - = large chords as in hymns or brightness as in some of the Bach fugues.<BR> <BR> Thanks,<BR> Keith<BR> <BR> PS.&nbsp; I tried the thing about highlighting the text and clicking = "normal" to see if it prevents the repetition of the message found in the = digest.</FONT></HTML>   --part1_114.1ca44f99.2b3c73ed_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: HTML From: "Peter Harrison" <peter@phmusic.co.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:16:56 -0000   Another email list I use recently solved this problem for their digest subscribers by changing the list server settings to bounce all incoming = post that contained HTML format tags. It meant users of AOL V5 and later were = no longer able to post without using webmail or posting from the mail list website.   The majority of posters were not affected but it provided a reminder for = the minority who used AOL (which at that time included me) that perhaps it was time to move on from an ISP that provides super simple, friendly, but limited facility software to something more flexible.   Peter M Harrison Director of Music, Emmanuel Church, Holcombe & P H Music : 48 Moorfield : Edgworth Bolton : Lancs : BL7 0DH : GB fax: +44 (0)1204 853445 : tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 web: www.phmusic.co.uk       | Subject: HTML | From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> | Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:34:53 -0500 | | Chatters, | | I sympathize with Michael somewhat. I receive the digest form and | get all kinds of extraneous characters. | | I am on AOL, and cannot control, AFAIK, which format I use to send | messages. I see my own messages as well as others repeated 2 and, | sometimes 3, times right after the other when I read the digest. I | hate that this happens, but i don't know how to stop it. | | I would appreciate any advice. | Thanks, | keith |      
(back) Subject: Re: Cornet/Sesquialtera - Solo/Chorus From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:43:50 -0600   Kzimmer0817@aol.com wrote: > > List, > > I decided to post this question separately from my Solo > stop message. I've felt that the 12th and 19th work well > in chorus work. To me that means that they can be drawn > with other stops and used in chords. I've been under the > impression that the 1 3/5 (17th) doesn't function well in > chorus work and is almost always used in a solo > combination (usually the Cornet). Am I correct so far.   Yes and no. Largely because its perfect thirds clash with the thirds of equal temperament, it is not a good idea to have a prominent tierce in the principal chorus of organs that are tuned to equal temperament. If one does, the result is a rather unpleasant reediness. It depends a lot on the scaling and voicing, however. A soft tierce of rather slender scale can sound quite pleasant in a principal chorus, giving it a certain sparkle and helping to bind the reeds and principals together. But it is very important to get it scaled and voiced just right, and I have heard many more disastrous chorus tierces than I have effective ones.   This is even more true of the 1.1/7' Septi=E8me or Flat Twenty-First (which plays the B flat note two octaves and a diminished seventh higher when a C is sounded.) During the 1920's it was popular to have a four rank mixture on large organs named Harmonics 4 Ranks which consisted of 17-19-b21-22 and was made of rather delicately voiced Dulciana-type pipes. They were much used by Arthur Harrison in England and Ernest M. Skinner in the U.S.A. Until recently I had not much cared for them. There is an early mixture called Acuta on the Hook at Holy Cross Cathedral in Boston, and I always think adds a rather harsh and nasty edge to the chorus. The one at Westminster Abbey (which I think may have been disconnected now) was a little better, but I have never much cared for it either. But recently I have heard one that is absolutely perfect. I recently got the new JAV recording of Ken Cowan playing the Skinner at Holy Rosary Cathedral in Toledo, and the Flat Twenty-First in the Harmonics there is simply wonderful. It binds the chorus together, helps the reeds to blend beautifully and adds a sumptuous sparkle to the chorus. So, as I say, it all depends how it is scaled and voiced.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: FW: A merry Christmas to all . . . From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:31:19 -0600     I heard of only a few wonderful services, so hope that your festivities have been so full you have not had time to recount them. I had only one pang of regret that I was not playing - a madrigal was singing "Silent Night" on NPR's afternoon news program. I don't even particularly enjoy "Silent Night" (anything that reminds me of a guitar mass is not on the "A" list), but teared up momentarily at the thought that I was not part of the tradition of singing that after communion at St. A's this year. It really choked me up to hear "Once in royal David's city", sung much as my little boy soprano sang it a few years ago at Christmas Eve. Even though he is a teenager now with a deeper voice, I know he is somewhere out there in a choir, and feel the gratefulness of being at the right place at the right time to give him the inspiration he needed.   I recovered nicely, thinking about how I was hosting 12 people for a wonderful celebration at my home and not having to stay to lock up the church and turn out the lights by myself in the middle of the night. And my program would probably have been pretty much the same as I recounted in years past, so nothing exciting for you.   May your holiday season and the coming year be full of the all-sufficient grace, the lasting joy and peace that only God has given and still provides.   Already looking forward to next year's organic forays, I remain   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Tierce from Undulating Rank From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:06:00 EST   This has been discussed with alarming frequency on several organ chat = lists. First consideration: The laws of physics will categorically prevent derived mutations from ever being in tune. Ever. That is why they are = called "laws." Second consideration: The frequent recommendations that such mutations = be taken from muted strings and "noncommittal" echo fluework goes directly against the historical background of mutations: bold flutes (French = School) or bold Principals (northern schools). Sickly, out-of-tune tinting factors =   have none of the dramatic color needed for the literature. While it CAN be done, it is considered bad organbuilding, and every aspect of the practice is at best a compromise. Yes, they can be = passable, but once you've really experienced an historically scaled (or just well-scaled), accurately tuned cornet combination, you will hear how alive =   and musical they really are, and will want the real thing. Budget is often the reason given for such things, but how much more = does a used set of pipes cost vs. all that wiring and unsatisfactory results? Translate the cost into sacrificing meals out, or the monthly trip to the movies, or one's habit of buying every pair of shoes in sight, and it is amazing how truly affordable the luxury of an independent Tierce can be = for one's hausorgelprojekt.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City Just home from Solemn Christmas Mass at Trinite in Paris (and both organs were in tune!!!)  
(back) Subject: Re: fundamentals and harmonics From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:27:17 EST   Unison=3Dprime=3Dfundamental=3Dfirst harmonic. Octave=3D2nd harmonic. Twelfth=3D3rd harmonic, ergo: 3rd harmonic of 8' series becomes improper fraction 8/3, or 2-2/3'. Fourth Harmonic of 8' series =3D 8/4, or 2' Fifth Harmonic =3D 8/5, or 1-3/5'. Seventh Harmonic =3D 8/7 or 1-1/7', etc... Do we spot a logical pattern? I thought I read an article about this recently, somewhere... I believe the author provided a chart...  
(back) Subject: Re: Tierce from Undulating Rank From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 12:06:23 +1300   >The frequent recommendations that such mutations be >taken from muted strings and "noncommittal" echo fluework goes directly >against the historical background of mutations: bold flutes (French School) >or bold Principals (northern schools). Sickly, out-of-tune tinting = factors >have none of the dramatic color needed for the literature.   I remember an lp from the 1950s of Flor Peeters at St Michael's Zwolle. On one piece, he used an 8ft and the (12.17) Principal-toned Sesquialtera. A stinging sound, and utterly musical. I still enjoy the disc. Flutes are so very different from Principals. One organ I was consultant for, a tracker, needed some stuff to go on the spare slides. The organ was built c1916 and the Great was 8 Open Diapason 8 Lieblich Gedackt (wood) 8 Dulciana (grvd bass)(proper Dulciana, not stringy at all) 4 Open Flute (metal spare slide spare slide spare slide   All these spare slides were for just small ranks of pipes. Way back in the early 1960s, I got them to change this small Great to -   8 Open Diapason 8 Lieblich Gedackt 8 Dulciana (1-12 grvd) 4 Principal (we lowered the mouth of the old 4ft Flute) 2 2/3 Twelfth (new, spotted metal) 2 Fifteenth (ditto, same big scaling, very low cut-up) 1 3/5 Seventeenth (ditto)   So the organ has three bright harmonically-rich stops. Great to 15th is a Great rich sound, with a fair bit of TCLewis sound. The 17th (NOT a = Tierce) adds a phenomenal reediness and colour and blends superbly. The same 17th can be used alone with the 8ft Lieb.Ged.to give a silvery bell-like tone above MidC (below that, it falls apart). If you add the 12th, yet get the typical old German Sesquialtera tone. Add the 4ft and 15th and you get a brilliant synethetic solo sound that is very alive at the same time. The Swell of this wee organ is - 8 Stopt Flute (metal) 4 Principal 1 1/3 Larigot (replaced an awful TenC Gamba) 8 Oboe (brightish, but not loud)   The Pedal has a solitary 16ft Bourdon. Three couplers.   I had the Booth company in the UK make the new pipes, as I did not want = the more-flutey sound of Stinkens or Laukhuff. It might seem as if we "Baroquised" the organ, but that was not the case at all. Nothing sounds = out of place. All blends ans is extraordinarily useful. The Dulciana, like all good English ones from way back, is a soft breath of echo diapason tone. = It is not a string, and is a superb acccompaniment for even the Swell 8ft = Stopt Flute as a solo. The Bourdon is one of those biggish-scaled, low-pressure low-cut-up wooden things that seem to lock into any kind of manual registration, far more useful than could ever be imagined. The lack of a Swell string is never a problem.   Ross    
(back) Subject: "derived" Tierces, etc. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:11:11 -0800   What Sebastian said (grin).   At the risk of sounding like a broken record, go to the organ LITERATURE to see what mutations are SUPPOSED to do. A French baroque mounted cornet, in addition to being a solo stop / component of the Grand Jeu in its OWN right, was intended to bolster the trebles of the CLAIRONS. You're NOT going to get Nasards or Tierces that will do THAT if you derive them from a Vox Celeste rank!   A favorite solo combination on the GOOD Schnitger-inspired organs I've played is the Rueckpositiv Gedackt + narrow-scale Sesquialtera, accompanied by the Hauptwerk 8' PRINZIPAL. Even given that the relatively narrow dynamic range of North German-inspired stops will ALLOW that, if you derive a Sesquialtera from the Choir Unda maris, it isn't going to sing out above much of ANYTHING. And you CAN'T derive BOTH the 2 2/3' AND the 1 3/5' from the same rank and have both even APPROACH being in tune.   Isn't Audsley sorta responsible for this idea? He regarded mutations as soft stops to color and reinforce the 8' stops' harmonic series, without much regard for historical organ-building or performance practice.   That said, it WAS fun on the VERY large organs I've played to have soft Gemshorn-scale or stopped wooden flute mutations to play around with ... there were ENDLESS possibilities for coloring the strings and the softer reeds with them. But that's a LUXURY, not a NECESSITY. And, properly voiced and TUNED TRUE, normal wide OR narrow scale mutations can do the same thing, to a certain point. If you have a GOOD Oboe, Oboe + Gedeckt + Nasard + Tierce will yield a passable Cromorne, and so forth.   I think the whole idea of soft mutations belongs to the era of start-to-finish background music (as service-playing used to be practiced in some churches) and echo organs, etc., none of which had any connection to legitimate organ-playing OR organ literature. It was fun, and I'm old enough I learned how to DO it, but I don't do it anymore (grin).   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Greetings From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 19:22:07 EST     --part1_8d.21a80744.2b3ba5af_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Greetings, May all have a happy Holiday season.   Stan Krider   --part1_8d.21a80744.2b3ba5af_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Greetings,<BR> May all have a happy Holiday season.<BR> <BR> Stan Krider</FONT></HTML>   --part1_8d.21a80744.2b3ba5af_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Which Harmonic From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 22:26:25 EST     --part1_8a.21ca5c8d.2b3bd0e1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Keith, I would be interested too. What I remember was from college when = we were taught harmonics and partials for the brass instruments. I sure = could use a refresher course. Leee   --part1_8a.21ca5c8d.2b3bd0e1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Keith, I would be interested too.&nbsp; What I = remember was from college when we were taught harmonics and partials for = the brass instruments.&nbsp; I sure could use a refresher course.&nbsp; = Leee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_8a.21ca5c8d.2b3bd0e1_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: HTML From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 17:39:08 -0500   > AMEN! and AMEN! The stuff is a royal pain on lists! (though I must = admit > I don't know why most lists can't handle it; html, I would think, is = really > more the standard now than the non-html).   Most list-serve software predates html-encoded email, which is a fairly = recent abhoration. Some email programs (MicroSloth) insist on sending out email = in BOTH forms, which is generally annoying, too. Since it is such a problem = now, it appears that some programmers are now working on list-serve programs = that will strip out html encoding. I have no idea how available or how good = they are, though, since I have only heard rumors of such.   All that aside, Merry Christmas to everyone from snowy Northern Virginia! =     Peace, prosperity and good health to all, TommyLee    
(back) Subject: Re: HTML Workaround for AOL From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 01:31:08 EST     --part1_12c.1eb2f6b4.2b3bfc2c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear David and list:   In AOL the work around goes something like this: Click on settings, click on fonts, click reset.(one time only) E-mail to the list: click edit, click select all (turns background black with white text) right click mouse, click on text click normal and send. It will go out as plain ascii text. Ad sent me this quite a while ago and it seems to work well, and seems to solve the problem of eliminating rich text. Follow the third line and after everytime you send to the list, which I'm doing now.   Ron Severin   --part1_12c.1eb2f6b4.2b3bfc2c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Dear David and list:<BR> <BR> In AOL the work around goes something like this:<BR> Click on settings, click on fonts, click reset.(one time only)<BR> E-mail to the list: click edit, click select all (turns<BR> background black with white text) right click mouse,<BR> click on text click normal and send. It will go out as<BR> plain ascii text. Ad sent me this quite a while ago<BR> and it seems to work well, and seems to solve the<BR> problem of eliminating rich text. Follow the third line<BR> and after everytime you send to the list, which I'm doing now.<BR> <BR> Ron Severin</FONT></HTML>   --part1_12c.1eb2f6b4.2b3bfc2c_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Which Harmonic From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 16:08:34 EST     --part1_184.1426ed3b.2b3b7852_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/25/02 11:58:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gedeckt@usit.net writes:     > No problem, Bruce....we know that Miles, Molly and Degui will chastise > you for it... >   Thanks... Actually, it was Degui who hit send before the address got = changed!   He's feeling his oats today! arrrrroooooooooooooooooo   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 check out <A = HREF=3D"http://www.visionsuccess.com/BC2053">Vision Success </A>       --part1_184.1426ed3b.2b3b7852_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/25/02 11:58:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gedeckt@usit.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">No problem, = Bruce....we know that Miles, Molly and Degui will chastise <BR>you for it... <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Thanks... Actually, it was Degui who hit send before the address got = changed! <BR> <BR>He's feeling his oats today! &nbsp;&nbsp;arrrrroooooooooooooooooo <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;check out &nbsp;&nbsp;<A = HREF=3D"http://www.visionsuccess.com/BC2053">Vision Success </A> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_184.1426ed3b.2b3b7852_boundary--