PipeChat Digest #2709 - Sunday, February 17, 2002 Re: Hiding out (was: Old West, etc.) by "jch" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Buxtehude-Belotti by "Marek Miskowicz" <email@example.com> A Concert by Juilliard Organ Students at Tully Hall! by "Malcolm Wechsler" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Hiding out (was: Old West, etc.) by "Mike Gettelman" <email@example.com> Re: Correction: is this the Old West, or WHAT? by "Douglas A Campbell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Appropriate Youth Music by "Douglas A Campbell" <email@example.com> Re: Appropriate Youth Music by "Malcolm Wechsler" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Opinions sought by <RMaryman@aol.com> Re: Opinions sought (SS Relay Systems) by "The Schneider Family" <email@example.com> Re: Appropriate Youth Music by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> CCM by the Beach (X-posted) by <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: CCM by the Beach (X-posted) by <DudelK@aol.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Hiding out (was: Old West, etc.) From: "jch" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 07:12:40 -0600 At 11:59 PM 2/15/02 -0600, you wrote: >Greetings from Kenney (never heard of it, right?) Illinois > >Faithfully, > >Grandpa Arp Some of us have even been there (I think?)...somewhere near Clinton = territory >
(back) Subject: Buxtehude-Belotti From: "Marek Miskowicz" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:22:50 +0100 (MET) Good morning everyone, I am looking for Buxtehude organ works edited by Michael Belotti (The Broude Trust). Why can I buy it using the Web? Does everybody know the publishing house web site? Regards, Marek Miskowicz Cracow, Poland
(back) Subject: A Concert by Juilliard Organ Students at Tully Hall! From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:19:47 -0500 Dear Lists and Friends, Here is a little glimpse into the organic goings on at the Juilliard School, 2002! With Michael David, a member of the Organ lists, and his wife Maggy, visiting NY from Chicago, I attended a concert at Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, given by organ students of John Weaver and Gerre Hancock at the Juilliard School. This was last night, Friday night, 2/15. Here's the good news: MOZART - Phantasie in F Minor (608). DAVID ENLOW Mr. Enlow is from Toronto, where he studied with John Tuttle. He spent a year at Curtis, and while there, was one of several assistants for the twice daily recitals on the Wanamaker organ (the perfect preparation for tonight's experience!). He is now a student of John Weaver. At the very first flourish of the Mozart, the full impact of this dead room hit me, or is it non-impact? I had forgotten over the years just how unfortunate it is. Mr. Enlow battled manfully putting out a lot of notes into this arid environment. His excellent performance sounded ever so slightly on edge in just a very few places, but the excitement quotient was very high indeed. BACH - From the Well Tempered Clavier, Book 1, Preludes & Fugues in C Minor and G Major - CAMERON CARPENTER Mr. Carpenter is a student of Gerre Hancock. Previous study has been with John Bertalot, James Litton, both then of the Princeton, New Jersey area, and John Michener at the North Carolina School of the Arts. One can quibble about whether the spirit of these Preludes & Fugues is well served in a transfer to the Organ - perhaps the question deserves more than a quibble. In the two chosen, there is something of a perpetual motion feeling, and the rather brittle, mixture-driven plena of this organ gave these tightly composed works something of the clatter or chatter of a Harpsichord performance, albeit at a very different volume level. Tempi were quite fast, but I did not think overly so, and J. S. Bach is not telling us. Both pieces were organized to allow for much flashy pedal display, and the playing was indeed flawless. There was always a Pedal reed drawn to make sure the pedal workout was not missed. I went into this thinking: "Aren't there plenty of great Bach Organ works around - do we have to raid the Well Tempered pantry?" But, in the end, I was beguiled by the show of virtuosity, a perfectly legitimate response to a musical performance, and the fact that I thought the music well served. It was fun. MESSIAEN - Les Corps Glorieux: COLIN FOWLER V. Force et agilit=E9 des Corps Glorieux. VI. Joie et clart=E9 des Corps Glorieux. It is particularly strange to hear this music in this incredibly dry acoustic, but Mr. Fowler somehow managed to "expand" the music to fill the space - he is a fine player, studying now with Gerre Hancock, after study at Interlochen with the late and very much lamented Robert Murphy. Mr. Fowler dedicated his performance to the memory of "Murph," who would only have been pleased. LISZT - B-A-C-H - PATRICK KABANDA Mr. Kabanda is from Kampala, Uganda, where he began his Organ study at Namirembe Cathedral. He is now in his first year of the Juilliard Master 's Program, studying with John Weaver. His is very solid and clean playing, without which neither he nor Liszt would have survived on this immensely clear instrument with no resonance around it to envelope the sound for you and to give you much feed back. It was an odd sort of fun to see the Brustwerk cupboard doors opening and closing along with the Swell shutters! The Liszt kept them all moving. This was a most exciting performance. CALVIN HAMPTON - 5 DANCES - ANDREW HENDERSON Mr. Henderson is in the Doctoral program, studying with John Weaver. After three years as Organ Scholar at Clare College, Cambridge, he finished the Master's Program at Yale. He is presently Assistant Organist at The Church of St. Ignatius Loyola. He has the distinction of being the only performer to speak to the audience, which is probably a blessing, as we might still be there if others had thought of it. He kindly and with great concision gave us the names of the five movements of Calvin Hampton's Five Dances. They were inadvertently left out of the program. This music worked the best of all this evening's offerings in this dry acoustic, I think. Somehow the clarity is helpful to its many intricacies, all of which Mr. Henderson honored most carefully, without losing any of the fun. He has a really wonderful sense of line, and in a special way, this music reveals the qualities of an impeccable player, and Mr. Henderson certainly passed Calvin's little test. Bravo! REGER - Fantasy on the Choral "Ein feste Burg." - LIYA KOFMAN-PETRIDES Ms Kofman-Petrides is from St. Petersburg, Russia. She has Bachelor's and Master's Degrees from Manhattan School of Music, and is now in the Juilliard Doctoral Program, studying with Gerre Hancock. She plowed bravely through this incredibly dense music, music that wants for a powerful, reed driven big chorus, full of supporting fundamental tone. With everything going on this organ, the effect is that of a remarkably loud chorus of buzzing bees. This is a work, and this was a performance, about which both of my major teachers would have said: "Good work. Now put it away and let it settle in your mind for at least a few months, and then come back to it." By that, I don't mean to suggest that this was anything less than the perfect finish to our evening, and it merited two great bunches of flowers. Let the record show that none of the guys got any! The organ, as most reading this will know, is a large mechanical instrument by the Swiss builder, Theodore Kuhn, a barely tolerated misfit in the non-acoustic of a large concert hall, I am afraid. You know the gesture organists use to acknowledge an instrument they like. After gathering unto themselves the applause that is their due (and whatever flowers someone might wish to proffer), a hand is raised to point at the case, and there is more applause. This, sadly, could not and did not happen last night, and it is no shame to the builder, but rather to the entire conception - and there were musical intermediaries involved who had a share of the responsibility for the outcome as well. There was quite a good crowd, albeit looking a bit scattered in this large hall. Michael, Maggy, and I got to the hall about an hour before the event, after glorious food at the Oyster Bar at Grand Central, and a look-in at nearby St. Agnes Church, and a lovely demonstration of the (Mander) instrument by Andrew Mills, the titulaire. At the hall, we were handed standby tickets, which bore the legend that all regular tickets had already been distributed, and that a survey of remaining seats would be made at 7:50, and if any were available, we would be allowed in. This is an organ recital? Well, this is all a bit unfathomable to my small brain. We were told to come back five minutes before the concert, at which point, after bags were cursorily searched, we were simply let in to a half-empty hall. Go figure. Papering the house? The tickets were free, by the way. I decided I would avoid giving information about who did and who did not play from memory, other than to say that the score was three to three. My research indicates that this had nothing to do with which teacher was involved! The evidence is that was clearly not a factor. I think important things are learned from memorized performance, and I also believe, with some performers, it can have a significant effect on the quality of a performance. I can only think of one performer of the evening who might well benefit from the discipline of memory. I would tell, for a suitable consultant's fee! For the others who used music, it was no impediment at all. One person, who was turning his own pages, and doing so quietly, and with a precision borne of careful thought and preparation, turned two pages at one point, and so secure was this person, that he or she (!) was totally unfazed, and had one not been looking, this would not have been noticed at all. That's all from the Candlewood Hills on a beautiful, sunny Saturday - spring is inevitable now. Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com
(back) Subject: Re: Hiding out (was: Old West, etc.) From: "Mike Gettelman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:48:35 -0500 I thought Clinton territory was a bit further South, more towards Gamba Tubaville, unless he has a home in corn country too. :-) Sounds to me = like Kenney is a place I wouldn't mind visiting--maybe stay a while. Cheers Mike jch wrote: > At 11:59 PM 2/15/02 -0600, you wrote: > >Greetings from Kenney (never heard of it, right?) Illinois > > > >Faithfully, > > > >Grandpa Arp > > Some of us have even been there (I think?)...somewhere near Clinton = territory > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:email@example.com
(back) Subject: Re: Correction: is this the Old West, or WHAT? From: "Douglas A Campbell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:45:38 -0500 On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:12:14 EST Innkawgneeto@cs.com writes: > > > the home State of Jesse James. > > > I once performed a piano concert at the home church of the James > Gang. Their > father was pastor. It was a beautiful old building in a delightful > rural > setting. > > I wonder if that's where the Preacher's Kid Syndrome was first > realized (no > offense intended to said segment of the populace). > > Neil Brown > What's worse than a "Preacher's Kid" ???? A Preacher's Kid that became a Preacher ! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
(back) Subject: Appropriate Youth Music From: "Douglas A Campbell" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:38:11 -0500 On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:49:43 EST Wurlibird1@aol.com writes: <snip> My mail slot at church contained several <recommendations> for Lent and Easter from the pastor. > Only one of them is familiar to me and I have been at this business > about > forty years. All are of the contemporary style, shallow in both > musicality > and message. > > My feelings on the recommendations were offered today. None of them > will be > used at the two churches I serve. We will adhere to the > traditional. This > brought a rather contentious response which I simply ignored. If I > had a > youth choir, I would consider several as appropriate. My question is: IF the stuff isn't suitable for an adult choir - why do you think that it is OK to foist it off on a youth choir???? Remember the stuff you cram into thier little heads today will be the "standards" of tomorrow ! Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
(back) Subject: Re: Appropriate Youth Music From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:26:10 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas A Campbell" <email@example.com> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 8:38 AM Subject: Appropriate Youth Music The Wurlibird writes about some pieces recommended by his minister: > All are of the contemporary style, shallow in both > > musicality > > and message. > > If I > > had a > > youth choir, I would consider several as appropriate. Doug Campbell responds: > > My question is: IF the stuff isn't suitable for an adult choir - why do > you think that it is OK to foist it off on a youth choir???? > > Remember the stuff you cram into their little heads today will be the > "standards" of tomorrow ! > > Douglas A. Campbell > Skaneateles, NY > And Malcolm says that, while Doug Campbell and I often agree amiably to disagree on some issues, he has my complete "Amen" to what he has written above. AND, in fact, some children's choirs I have dealt with had unerring taste of a sort that some members of adult choirs couldn't even dream about. "A little child shall lead them!" Cheers, Malcolm
(back) Subject: Re: Opinions sought From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:24:33 EST --part1_d6.125a2407.29a01a01_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/15/2002 4:58:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, = email@example.com writes: > . This customer desperately needs multiple memory > capability and I (as the curator) am not predisposed in favour of any = system > on the market. Considering my <correct> spelling of "favour" you may = have > guessed I am in Canada (or the U.K., I suppose). Well, I am in Canada = and > Andrew - Cost is almost always a consideration. Cost is not limited to the initial purchase and installation, but also in the necessity for follow-up repairs = in the eventuallity of a part failure. Most technicians have thier favored systems, based on their own = experiences with various manufacturers. I prefer to use systems from Peterson for a couple of reasons. I like their product layout and the relative ease with which they can be fitted or retro-fit into existing all-electric consoles. Their product support for those of us who have to maintain them is very good. I have had = occasion to call on their in-house expertise in trouble-shooting and they = are always supportive of my efforts to resolve my client's problems. they also = seem to always have the necessary modules and parts on hand for immediate shipment when I have a "must-fix-NOW" situation. I have worked on most of the major brand-name products of solid-state devices that are out there in the marketplace, and the fact is that most makers of this type of equipment are reliable and responsive to their customer's needs and desires, tho I have run into some suppliers whose helpfullness is less than ideal. Rick in VA --part1_d6.125a2407.29a01a01_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 2/15/2002 4:58:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. This customer = desperately needs multiple memory <BR>capability and I (as the curator) am not predisposed in favour of any = system <BR>on the market. Considering my <correct> spelling of "favour" you = may have <BR>guessed I am in Canada (or the U.K., I suppose). Well, I am in Canada = and <BR>our dollar is performing terribly so cost is a consideration = </BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>Andrew - <BR> <BR>Cost is almost always a consideration. Cost is not limited to the = initial purchase and installation, but also in the necessity for follow-up = repairs in the eventuallity of a part failure. <BR> <BR>Most technicians have thier favored systems, based on their own = experiences with various manufacturers. I prefer to use systems from = Peterson for a couple of reasons. <BR>I like their product layout and the relative ease with which they can = be fitted or retro-fit into existing all-electric consoles. Their product = support for those of us who have to maintain them is very good. I have had = occasion to call on their in-house expertise in trouble-shooting and they = are always supportive of my efforts to resolve my client's problems. they = also seem to always have the necessary modules and parts on hand for = immediate shipment when I have a "must-fix-NOW" situation. <BR> <BR> I have worked on most of the major brand-name products of solid-state = devices that are out there in the marketplace, and the fact is that most = makers of this type of equipment are reliable and responsive to their = customer's needs and desires, tho I have run into some suppliers whose = helpfullness is less than ideal. <BR> <BR>Rick in VA</FONT></HTML> --part1_d6.125a2407.29a01a01_boundary--
(back) Subject: Re: Opinions sought (SS Relay Systems) From: "The Schneider Family" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:32:14 -0600 Hugh Drogemuller wrote: > I am familiar with one organ maintenance firm who has done considerable > number of solid state conversions of stop and combination actions. They > have primarily used the system of one manufacturer. They did a = conversion > or two by another manufacturer but found that some hoped for savings did > not materialize since the labor cost to install was greater because the > supplier shipped more individual parts and fewer sub-assemblies. I am = sure > there is probably a learning curve involved in all this but the = technician > who works on this full-time convinced the boss to go back to the = previous > supplier. > In short if you have familiarity with a particular system your cost in > installing it is likely to be less than for an unfamiliar system. Dear List: How timely this discussion is! I currently happen to be going through EXACTLY the scenario that Hugh writes about above! For the most part, we have worked with two brands of solid state systems over the years and the one disconcerting thing about the system from the lesser-known supplier (which is the one that I happen to be installing currently!) is the fact that, while the modules are extremely well-made (MIL-spec boards and high quality components throughout) it does NOT follow the conventions that organbuilders have come to expect and generally take for granted in solid state systems. One of these is polarity. Peterson, and most other systems on the market today use the convention of Positive for inputs and Negative for returns from magnets. Immediately prior to the installation of the current system, we installed a formidable MSP 1000 Combination action and Multiplex relay system into THREE different chambers, so this was a particularly complex and large system; driving something on the order of about 100 stop knobs and coupler assemblies. We had the whole thing up and going in hardly no time, except for the fact that some of the boards had been indirectly affected by lightning when the church electrical system was hit immediately prior to the system being installed. Fortunately, several hundred dollars-worth of replacement boards arrived from Peterson the very next day without charge! Now that alone speaks VOLUMEs about the technical support this company provides and means a LOT! Back to the less-known system I am currently installing: This particular system follows exactly the OPPOSITE conventions electrically and has resulted in a plethora of mis-wires that had to be corrected, because everyone is used to it being the other way around. Worse: while the system was being installed, and before I had a chance to check out everyone's wiring prior to power-up, some a**h**e from the church decided to "see how the thing was coming along" and turned on the power while we were gone over a weekend. We returned the following week to discover all of the Input Boards blown-up (chips were actually spalled!) so they were rendered a bill that should have not even been necessary. $600.00 down the drain for nothing. And, of course, they "had no idea when that happened" (Yeah, right!) More distressing yet is the fact that the wiring order of their Input and Output Boards, (which are EXACTLY the SAME STYLE of boards!) do not follow the same wiring sequence. The Outputs are sequenced down one side for 1-32 and then down the opposite side for 33-64; whereas the wiring sequence on the Input Boards "criss-cross". Pin 1 is on the left, 2 is on the right, 3 is back on the left underneath 1, etc. Talk about confusing. It was no wonder that my guys got so easily confused and mis-wired so much stuff. As a result, we've had tons of hours spent correcting mis-wires and troubleshooting in order to make everything conform to "their" way that things are done; which is completely contrary to convention. Worse than this is the fact that the instructions are extremely cryptic at best and completely silent at worst. This isn't a case of "real organbuilders don't need instructions" as much as "real instructions don't exist!" As a result, much of how things are programmed and other important details and nuances about this system had to be discovered only by means of exhaustive trial-and-error or phone calls to the company (which are NOT Toll-free, unlike Peterson's Tech Support!) Basically, one has to have a "Mad Scientist's Degree" or be the Nutty Professor on the Hill in order to manage installing one of these things without resorting to uttering words which ought best not be heard inside of church in the course of installation. Having said all of that, in defense of this particular system, there are a number of advantageous features about it, such as ease of programming changes, rather than having to re-configure boards (as would be required with a Peterson system!) if additions or changes are made to an organ's specifications (important in "ever-expanding" residence organs or projects like ours where a complete change-over of windchest action/configuration in the future is anticipated). Another "plus" is that the data is transmitted by a single fibre-optic cable and finally, full MIDI capability and memory record/playback is integrated into the system, which are expensive extras on the Peterson systems. However, the enormous re-learning curve (and I've done one installation of an earlier "generation" of these systems in the past, so I *thought* I knew what I was doing!) makes it difficult to wish to consider going that route ever again. Obviously, I don't wish to name this particular system on the list, but will be glad to discuss it with anyone who needs/wants to know off the list privately. Faithfully, Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org HOME EMAIL mailto:email@example.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL
(back) Subject: Re: Appropriate Youth Music From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:08:20 EST --part1_26.2341b309.29a05c84_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My question is: IF the stuff isn't suitable for an adult choir - why do > you think that it is OK to foist it off on a youth choir???? > I agree with this view partially. Good music (and good text, for that matter) is good music. To assert that youth are only capable of, or = willing to, sing shlock is a crock. However, there is some repertory that lends itself better to the youth voice. A lot of it is good music, a lot of it isn't. Like all things, = one must sift the wheat from the chaff. I do wish that we would, for once, distinguish between "style" and = "quality". If it isn't good quality, I refuse to do it, regardless of style. But I = have no problem using a variety of styles with all my choirs. Neil by the Bay --part1_26.2341b309.29a05c84_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">My question is: IF = the stuff isn't suitable for an adult choir - why do <BR>you think that it is OK to foist it off on a youth choir???? <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I agree with this view partially. Good music (and good text, for = that matter) is good music. To assert that youth are only capable = of, or willing to, sing shlock is a crock. <BR> <BR>However, there is some repertory that lends itself better to the = youth voice. A lot of it is good music, a lot of it isn't. = Like all things, one must sift the wheat from the chaff. <BR> <BR>I do wish that we would, for once, distinguish between "style" and = "quality". If it isn't good quality, I refuse to do it, regardless = of style. But I have no problem using a variety of styles with = all my choirs. <BR> <BR>Neil by the Bay <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_26.2341b309.29a05c84_boundary--
(back) Subject: CCM by the Beach (X-posted) From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:35:10 -0800 I knew it was coming when they hired a youth director. "What should I get for the youth group? They want to sing more 'contemporary' songs." "Anything you like, as long as the TEXTS are orthodox, with the understanding that they are 'youth group songs' to be sung at youth group, summer camp, etc., or at a Saturday or Sunday night 'youth Mass', if the Rector approves. But understand THIS: they are NEVER to invade the SUNDAY MORNING Masses at any time for any reason ... are we clear? NO CCM ON SUNDAY MORNING. We are who we are; that's NEVER to change." "The Rector told me the same thing." "I'm not surprised" (chuckle). We'll see what happens ... Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: Re: CCM by the Beach (X-posted) From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 23:30:45 EST Be Not Afraid. I'm sure you'll be borne up On Eagle's Wings! And with a = whole choir of St. Louis Jesuits to carry you upward!