PipeChat Digest #2712 - Monday, February 18, 2002 Arthur LaMirande's new post??? by "Mark Quarmby" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Don't make me start Lent the way you did! by "Steve Chandler" <email@example.com> Console Inquiry by "Bob" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: Don't make me start Lent the way you did! by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> What to do for a depressed friend? by "Emmons, Paul" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Arthur LaMirande's new post??? by "Mack" <email@example.com> Re: Arthur LaMirande's new post??? by <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Console Inquiry by "John Vanderlee" <email@example.com> Re: What to do for a depressed friend? by "Cheryl C Hart" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: What to do for a depressed friend? by "Stanley Lowkis" <email@example.com> RE: A pleasant sort of macabre Lent in hell by "Emmons, Paul" <firstname.lastname@example.org> your friend by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Trivia question: "Only a musician" by "Emmons, Paul" <email@example.com> Re: Console Inquiry by "Vern Jones" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Arthur LaMirande's new post??? by "Rodney West" <email@example.com> Re: What to do for a depressed friend? by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Re: Faure Req. accomp: (xposted) by "Rodney West" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: What to do for a depressed friend? by "Rodney West" <email@example.com> Wildlife in Ipswich by "Stanley Lowkis" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: What to do for a depressed friend? by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
(back) Subject: Arthur LaMirande's new post??? From: "Mark Quarmby" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:23:38 +1100 I received this email from Arthur some weeks ago which explains all.... "At Notre Dame --- which, I think, may well be the most beautiful church = in the world, at least on the exterior --- I was given an erroneous promotion on the printed program: I was billed as "organiste titulaire du grande = orgue de la cathedrale Saint Patrick de New York". Well, I don't hold that position, but by the time I saw the error, the programs had already been printed and it was too late to correct the error. They did identify me correctly in the spoken introduction to the program: "organiste emerite de l'eglise Tres Saint Nom de Jesus de New York". In the remarks, they repeated (in French) the notes which I had previously supplied about the music." > > "while walking though Notre Dame Cathedral I picked up a listing of > Auditions d'orgue (recitals).......I was astonished to see that on = Sunday, > January 6 Arthur La Mirande (late of this list) had given a recital at = Notre > Dame of works by Edouard Commette and Franz Schmidt (what a shock). = However > on this listing (published by Notre Dame) M. La Mirande was listed as > "Organiste titulaire de Grand-Orgue de la Cathedrale Saint-Patrick de = New > York (USA)............ > > Have I missed something???" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Don't make me start Lent the way you did! From: "Steve Chandler" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:47:50 -0600 > Malcom wrote: > > Yes, but . . . how many UCC churches would use such a thing? To which Alan replied: >Well, Malcolm, I fear that you may be right. I almost asked in my earlier post, "Or maybe I shouldn't believe it?" Nevertheless, having had negative thoughts about the UCC for decades, I'm trying to atone with this little burst of optimism. >My college president (Pacific Lutheran Univ., Tacoma, Wash.) once told me that he thought the three churches nearest the truth of Lutheranism were the Roman, the Anglican, and the Scottish Presbyterians. In that order. As a UCC member I find this offensive. It's the old my religion's better = than yours and it's the reason wars have been (and are being) fought. Ours = is an activist congregation, but each congregation enjoys self governance, = hence the term congregationalist. Yet I can assure you my sprititual home is a place of great faith. If I wanted = a great organ I'd go two miles farther down the road to the Presbyterian = church with the Phelps/Dobson organ (started by Phelps, finished by = Dobson), but I choose not to. Steve Chandler Urbandale, Iowa
(back) Subject: Console Inquiry From: "Bob" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:26:46 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C1B866.C493F390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello list, I'm searching for a 3 manual theatre pipe organ console. I =3D would prefer a double bolster model but will consider a single bolster =3D model. If anyone on the list has one or knows where one may be =3D available, I would greatly appreciate it if you would email me =3D privately.=3D20 Thank you so much, Bob =3D20 ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C1B866.C493F390 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Hello list,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=3D20 size=3D3D2> &nbs= =3D p; I'm=3D20 searching for a 3 manual theatre pipe organ console. I would prefer a =3D double=3D20 bolster model but will consider a single bolster model. If anyone on the = =3D list=3D20 has one or knows where one may be available, I would greatly appreciate = =3D it if=3D20 you would email me privately. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Thank you so much,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Bob</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2> </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C1B866.C493F390--
(back) Subject: RE: Don't make me start Lent the way you did! From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:45:31 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: Steve Chandler [mailto:email@example.com]=20 Subject: Don't make me start Lent the way you did! As a UCC member I find this offensive.=20 Alan replies: Steve, if you find that offensive, I owe you a major apology. I hope you'll read my post again. I thought it was reasonably clear that I have been ignorant of the UCC for as long as that denomination has existed (just about 44 years). And that I'd just had my eyes opened in a way that impressed me very positively about the UCC. While I can be ashamed of my ignorance, it was with fraternal PRIDE that I indicated some very positive new (to me) information about the UCC. If I failed to make that clear, the fault is mine. My apology is quite sincere, and my delight in now "knowing better" is unabashed. =20 Alan
(back) Subject: What to do for a depressed friend? From: "Emmons, Paul" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:41:30 -0500 I am worried about an organist friend whom I used to get together with = often but, after he changed jobs a few months ago, our paths just don't cross, = so I haven't seen him for awhile. Yesterday another mutual friend reports that this young man is working half-time at best (having resigned another job, not in church music, completely on his own initiative as far as we know). He used to have a superb CD collection of church music but recently put it all in the dumpster, saying that (as of his latest mishap with church employment) he never wants to hear the like again. I suspect that this isn't because he has started to hate it, but because he loves it so much that hearing it is now painful. He usually gets up around noon and has lost weight, not = eating well. He says that he is just lazy, but it seems clear that he is clinically depressed, nothing new for him and tends to be worst in the spring. I doubt that drugs or drink are involved, but we're afraid that = he is now self-destructive and suicidal. One of our rising young recitalists has called my friend "a brilliant = man," and I'd quickly agree. I admire him, even stand in awe, in many ways. He is an outstanding organist and pianist, with technique to burn and fine musical insight, and I wish I could sight-read half as well. He'd = probably be one of our rising young recitalists himself if he were more together. = He is also marvelous with choirs, warm and kind, devout and amazingly = erudite-- the very last sort of person that the church should be injuring, but we = know it happens all the time, and too many of us have suffered the same blows. We all probably have known similar cases. Is there hope? I've never been a meddlesome sort; I cherish my own "space" and want to = give others theirs, as well as enough respect to let them live their own lives. But do friends just give casual tea and sympathy while someone goes to pieces? Would be grateful for any advice.
(back) Subject: Arthur LaMirande's new post??? From: "Mack" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:54:06 -0500 Arthur LaMirande's new post??? Come On People! Are you so desperate to have something to post you have to use the idiot Arthur's mistake to start another unwanted and erroneous thread? You guys need Day Jobs.
(back) Subject: Re: Arthur LaMirande's new post??? From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:01:30 -0800 And you, Sir, need to learn the conventions of polite discourse. Bud Clark Mack wrote: > Arthur LaMirande's new post??? > > Come On People! > > Are you so desperate to have something to post you have to use the idiot > Arthur's mistake to start another unwanted and erroneous thread? > > You guys need Day Jobs. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:email@example.com
(back) Subject: Re: Console Inquiry From: "John Vanderlee" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:04:00 -0800 >Hello list, > I'm searching for a 3 manual theatre pipe organ console. >I would prefer a double bolster model but will consider a single >bolster model. If anyone on the list has one or knows where one may >be available, I would greatly appreciate it if you would email me >privately. >Thank you so much, >Bob > Hi Bob where are you? We have a Kimball double bolster to get rid of cheaply. http://pages.prodigy.net/r.m.strang/ go to this location scroll all the way down and click on "Item 1 " All offers seriously considered, it needs to go! John V
(back) Subject: Re: What to do for a depressed friend? From: "Cheryl C Hart" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:13:21 +0000 Paul, I hope he can be persuaded to see a doctor as a matter of urgency in order = to receive a diagnosis and treatment. Tea and sympathy is good, but I doubt it will be enough to cure the problem. With kind regards, Cheryl
(back) Subject: Re: What to do for a depressed friend? From: "Stanley Lowkis" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:13:27 -0500 "Emmons, Paul" wrote: > > I am worried about an organist friend whom I used to get together with = often > but, after he changed jobs a few months ago, our paths just don't cross, = so > I haven't seen him for awhile. > I'm a mere amateur. But the advice I give is to hug your friend, buy = dinner, go to a 'show'. Keep your observant eyes open. That's what friends are = for. God Bless him, and you too, Paul. Stan
(back) Subject: RE: A pleasant sort of macabre Lent in hell From: "Emmons, Paul" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:12:44 -0500 Glenda recounts: >I was invited to the Valentine's Dinner being given next week for the women of the church by the men of the church, and then was asked to come up with entertainment, so I politely declined. I took it wrong, as sort of a slap - I'm not a woman of the church, just an employee. What is your title? I hope it's something like "organist and choir director." My fear is that if you're called by this newfangled term, "Parish Musician," people will expect such to be among your abilities and responsibilities, even if it is not formalized. Besides, the title sounds terribly lonely. Talk about hell-- the next closest thing must be when you're the *only* musician in a parish, as the term clearly implies. >The Widor [adagio, symphony 5] was in honor of his birthday. I just haven't found any other quiet/slow Widor that I like yet, but adore that movement. This comes second in my adoration to the Andante Sostenuto from the Symphonie Gothique (AKA the 9th); and probably to some of the Symphonie Romane, although I have never lerned to play any of the latter. You were right to play the Sym. 5 adagio at this time, because the 9th is (at least broadly speaking) for the Christmas season. But if you don't know it, = give it a try and you might discover a new favorite. >He has the congregation (term used loosely - he's never had more than 7 or 8 at these, and only 4 last Friday) sing verses at certain times: verse one before the first station, verse 2 before the fourth station; verse 3 before the eighth station, verse 4 before the twelfth station, and verse 5 after the fourteenth station. Is there a cogent reason other than some kind of numerology to this method? Both Michno and BCP state that it may be sung at the beginning of the service. Any enlightenment would be appreciated. The service of Stations of the Cross was designed to evoke or imitate the pilgrimage of the actual (traditional) stations in Jerusalem. Therefore, moving from one station to the next is supposed to take time. Whether the Stabat Mater was written for this ceremony or not (I guess = not, if it is also one of the handful of proper sequence hymns retained by the Council of Trent), I like its stanzas of the Stabat Mater one at a time during the Stations, rather than all at once. When you have an = opportunity to use a long hymn in such a manner, singing verse after verse in a single sitting-- or rather, standing-- instead is relatively *boring*. I don't want to agree with people who would chop verses off a venerable old hymn = out of sheer impatience and deficient attention span, but when *we* wrest it from its liturgical context, we invite just such complaints. Please let's not. I always enjoy your descriptive and picturesque narratives. Paul
(back) Subject: your friend From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:15:08 +1300 Paul, Speaking as both priest and clinical psychologist (the former since 1977, the latter since 1963), your replies so far have said the right thing. Two things need to happen. 1. The fellow needs to see a Christian psychologist. Deliberately a Christian, so his faith won't be attached by one of the so-many psychologists who believe Christian faith is "just another religion to be explained away", damaging your friend even further. 2. Yes, love the fellow rotten, not making excuses or reasons for him, as you don't want to settle him into a victim mentality, but just showing by your relationship that you are always there for him, caring, unchanging, steady, stable, just exactly as much as he wants or needs. I've seen this sort of thing a number of times, and it can take a long = time to fix, but it IS fixable, so he can have hope. Of course, part of it (I'm guessing here, of course) may be the loneliness that any talented person, or one with specialist knowledge, has. May I illustrate personally? I know only one other clergyman in my diocese that even plays the organ, and he is brain-damaged from a fall on the head from the roof. It means all my clergy colleagues go glazy-eyed if I talk about music. It also means I have no one to discuss good music with, or share with, no one who thinks of Bach as anything but utterly dull, no one who loves the organ except as traditional background noise. With the = decreasing number of organs having money spent on them, and the decreasing number of instruments as well, and the almost total absence of new enthusiastic amateur organists compared with 40 years ago, the only friends I have left who are interested in the instrument itself, and can discuss tone, design and history, and who have even heard of Schnitger, Silbermann, Henry = Willis, Flentrop, whatever, are now aged 70+, as all my friends my age (60yrs) = have died and there are no new members of our organists' association who know = or care. (And I'm the only clergyman ever to have been an active member of = the organists' association, in 40yrs!) All this creates a phenomenal sense of loneliness and isolation at times. When you add to this that I'm also a keen bagpiper, and have been playing even longer than the organ, and that I have just one church acquaintance (aged 70) who plays the pipes, and know an undertaker in another city = (aged 35) who does, then I have to go right outside my "cultural centre" to find friends in this area. That's probably good for me, but the sense of loneliness remains. Sorry to get so long-winded and personal, but this is part of being human. Your friend needs to know most of us, to some extent, are always feeling isolated and alone, part of the human condition, but that there are ways = of coping that may indeed be exciting: like developing new interests among = your local crowd that you can share, and moving out of your own "patch" to meet other needs in places you wouldn't normally seek. Praying that this may be some use. If the fellow would like an email penfriendship, give him my address. That way, "anonymously", he can talk = to someone thousands of miles away. Kind regards, Ross
(back) Subject: Trivia question: "Only a musician" From: "Emmons, Paul" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:37:03 -0500 A Tudor, probably the Elizabethan, regime, was about to hassle one of its greatest composers for being a Roman Catholic. Someone interceded for = him, pleading that he was "only a musician," i.e. notoriously weird generally, and too insignificant to be worth the trouble of prosecuting. Who was this composer? Someone asked me this question today, and I'm afraid I wasn't sure. It = was probably either Byrd or Tallis. Byrd, at least, remained RC, and with = both their Latin church music is, on the whole, much finer than their English settings. If you recall more details, such as who said this and when, they would be interesting. The queen herself liked these composers too well, probably, = to want to see any harm come to them.
(back) Subject: Re: Console Inquiry From: "Vern Jones" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:44:15 -0800 Bob, Look in the Theatre Organ Classifieds, there is a restored 3 Manual Console there with a double bolster. Vern > Bob wrote: > > Hello list, > I'm searching for a 3 manual theatre pipe organ console. I > would prefer a double bolster model but will consider a single bolster > model. If anyone on the list has one or knows where one may be > available, I would greatly appreciate it if you would email me > privately. > Thank you so much, > Bob >
(back) Subject: Re: Arthur LaMirande's new post??? From: "Rodney West" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:49:29 -0800 (PST) Excuse me, Mack, but I find your posting to be highly offensive. Not only do you "flame" the emails from those who inquired or explained the situation about the printed program for Arthur's recital, but you also have truly insulted Arthur himself in your posting. You have the right to agree or disagree with Arthur or anybody else here. But you have absolutely NO right to call anyone an idiot. --- Mack <email@example.com> wrote: > Arthur LaMirande's new post??? > > Come On People! > > Are you so desperate to have something to post you > have to use the idiot > Arthur's mistake to start another unwanted and > erroneous thread? > > You guys need Day Jobs. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: What to do for a depressed friend? From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:18:10 EST --part1_157.9283053.29a2c992_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would set aside time to go and see your friend. Encourage him to see a doctor to rule out any physical issues. Then encourage him to seek counseling. Above all, pray for him and let him know you are praying for him. Neil Brown --part1_157.9283053.29a2c992_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2>I would set aside time to go and see your friend. Encourage = him to see a doctor to rule out any physical issues. Then encourage = him to seek counseling. <BR> <BR>Above all, pray for him and let him know you are praying for him. = <BR> <BR>Neil Brown</FONT></HTML> --part1_157.9283053.29a2c992_boundary--
(back) Subject: Re: Faure Req. accomp: (xposted) From: "Rodney West" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:21:08 -0800 (PST) --- Karl Moyer <email@example.com> wrote: > I'm about to accompany the Faur=E9 _Requiem_ at the > organ, using a second > organist some of the time. It's an incredibly > beautiful but sensitive > score, and I wonder if music comes any finer than > this!!! > > Two questions: > > 1. The last passage of the second mov't, the > Offertory, shows only choir and > organ in the full score, but there is no indication > whether the organ uses > 16' pedal sound. Indeed, NEVER does the full score > indicate anything about > presence or absence of 16' pedal sound. Anyone > have it on good authority > whether or not to use 16' pedals in thsi passage? > Would Faur=E9 have had an > organ in mind without pedals? Check the orchestral version to see what range the cellos or double basses play in. But ultimately, if it sounds good and warm, then use the 16'! > 2. The very closing chord of the work is a > second-ivnersion chord!! Oh, > the harp, vc & cb parts, all plucked, tonic notes, > might resound a bit, but > the lowest note of the organ part -- 16' pedal? -- > also the tonic note is a > quarter note, while all other organ notes are dotted > half notes with fermata > to boot, thus sustaining a second inversion chord. > The choir chord is also > in second inversion. Anyone care to explain this? > Why would one close a > work on a second inversion chord? And who am I to > question Faur=E9, anyway? > Yet, as we Penna. Dutch folks say, "It wonders me > so." If that's the way it's written on the orchestration, hp and vc and cb would actually sound through enough. But if just sounds empty with organ solo, particularly in a dry acoustic, then hold the bottom note. Let your ears be the final judge. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: What to do for a depressed friend? From: "Rodney West" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:22:19 -0800 (PST) --- Innkawgneeto@cs.com wrote: > I would set aside time to go and see your friend. > Encourage him to see a > doctor to rule out any physical issues. Then > encourage him to seek > counseling. > > Above all, pray for him and let him know you are > praying for him. > > Neil Brown > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Wildlife in Ipswich From: "Stanley Lowkis" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:45:08 -0500 an Idiot replies: We had a situation in our family recently with a Culturally well Veneered sociopath-organist wedged himself between our family and friends in New York State. This is NOT Arthur. Mack, you may know the name of the Sociopath that I am speaking about. and how are you doing, Mack? Things are ok in Ipswich. ...and I never did get a good response to the overhead chicken wire Post. Hmmph! Stan :) :) :) "The Ozone Makes It all Worthwhile" seriously folks, I have a skunk runnin' around the house and garage. It smells bad and woke me up. Pretty animal, but very thin. Jasmine, my cat, gets 'nuts' when this skunk shows up.
(back) Subject: Re: What to do for a depressed friend? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:15:17 EST Dear Mr. Emmons: You and your friends are doing the right thing by keeping in touch = with this gentleman. As we all know, this is a field in which small people with = large vendettas can get the best of us. In college, during a period of depression (common amongst artists, and = college students in general), I told my roommate that I felt that "music = is what makes life bearable." He was NOT a musician by any stretch, headed = for a life in the brokerage house. But his response was, "No, Seb. Music is what = makes life Glorious." I think you are right about your friend dumping his collection of gloriousness -- it seemed at the time too painful a = reminder. Be his friend for now, and encourage him to seek advice and counsel. There is still a huge undercurrent of stigma regarding Psychiatry and emotional well-being in these modern times, and I wonder why. We are = willing to pop pills and have operations to treat any other organ in the body, = except the brain, which is our practical and emotional computer. Take it from an Austro-Hungarian Jew: Psychiatry is great, and not just because we think = we invented it!!! Whatever happened, he must realize that the end of the world only = happens once, and that was not it!!! For five months I have had the image seared in my brain of a man who jumped off of the World Trade Center. He had his arms folded across his = body, jumping head first, like a rocket, knowing he would die instantly. He = thought about it, chose the way he was going to leave this earth. I don't know if = he had family, or if they knew that he chose to end things on his own terms. = All I know is that he wore a blue shirt that day, and that it took over = half a minute for him to make that journey to the sidewalk. I am not capable of = imagining his thoughts amidst the din of roaring flames, other people = flying by, the unrelenting screaming of thousands, and the air rushing past his ears. In June I am moving to a new home, away from the firehouse next = door, where twelve men were murdered that day. It hurts too damn much to pass = it, day in, day out. But with all my sorrow, and I weep as I write this, I realize that on that day, NOTHING happened to me. I was tangential to it, and I still have = the gift of life, despite being surrounded by death. My life was affected, = but NOT destroyed, as were the lives of thousands, including children who have been born to the widows of the dead in the past five months. You ask whether there is hope? Of course there is. If your gifted = friend is a man of Faith, which he appears to be, then he is one step closer to coming out of his depression. Where Religion (faith in the Almighty) and Psychiatry (faith in oneself) intersect in the Venn Diagram, one can find much more than hope. Take care. Sebastian M. Gluck New York City