PipeChat Digest #2716 - Wednesday, February 20, 2002
 
Re: Need advice before organ committee meets
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Need advice/politics
  by "Randy Terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Organ Music for Sale
  by "Stan Guy" <texstan@earthlink.net>
Re: Need advice before organ committee meets
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: A pleasant sort of macabre Lent in hell
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: doing the job
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Bench setting question....
  by "Joshua Edwards" <fbcorganist@charter.net>
St Mary's, Wellington
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: What to do for a depressed friend?
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: Bench setting question....
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: St Mary's, Wellington
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Need advice before organ committee meets From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:36:39 EST     --part1_7a.2289b1d0.29a44997_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   You raise several very important questions. But the obvious question you have already answered. Your organ either needs replacing or repairing.   > Question: Politically, what approach works best? Do we blindly "ask > for the moon" by simply insisting on the largest, most beautifully built =   > instrument that'll fit the building and damn the financial torpedos? =   > Or do we try to assess financial realities first?   I think this is a both/and question. The first step I would recommend is hiring an organ consultant (someone who is knowledgeable but is NOT associated with any particular builder). The consultant can deflect a lot = of personal issues that otherwise would fall to you, because he/she is more objective. The consultant will ask your committee about your musical priorities and how the instrument fits those. And then he/she will guide = you in selecting potential bidders, and then ultimately the builder that most closely meets your needs, musically and financially.   What helped our church is that just prior to my coming, a parishioner bequeathed a sizable sum toward the purchase of a new pipe organ (50% of = the cost). Our committee (before I had arrived) had already set a limit on = how much they would spend for an organ. Good builders know how to provide the =   best product for the dollar.   As I am a firm believer in faith and prayer, I believe that God will lead your committee to make good decisions based on your church's financial situation.   > The economy being what it is, won't people automatically whine "Oh, we > can't afford this, we can't do that?" Do we decide what's reasonable = and > then set > the bar a little higher to stretch things?   Some people will whine -- it's in their job descriptions to do so. Others =   will see the need and seek ways to meet that need. Find out how much = similar projects cost in your area (both new installations and rebuilds). Your committee can assess whether the congregation can afford it. Make sure = you include on your committee at least one vocal (perhaps even anti-music) = person to make sure all angles of each discussion are covered.   > the organ to be raised completely > separately from the church budget itself?   I don't think this kind of project can reasonably be considered a typical budget item. This is a capital expenditure. As such, it need not fit = into the annual operating budget of the church. It's much like a new addition = to your building.   > Rumor has it that a church near us bought > about a $350,000 instrument (2-manual, beautiful workmanship!) and then > set about to raise the money. They raised about a third of it, then > took the rest out of their endowment funds, creating a political > firestorm in the church. >   This was not smart stewardship. However, if the church officials voted on =   this method to pay for the organ, and sufficient discussion was allowed, there should not have been the fall-out. My guess is they did not do = their homework.   As I mentioned above, our church had a bequest for approximately 50% of = the total cost of our organ. We borrowed from our endowment funds (notice I = said BORROW) and had the entire amount paid back in just about 2 years.   There are any number of creative ways to finance an organ project. My = advice is that you keep your congregation completely apprised of your plans and progress. When people KNOW, they will generally give.   Peace, and best wishes on the project. Neil Brown   --part1_7a.2289b1d0.29a44997_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2>You raise several very important questions. &nbsp;But the obvious = question you have already answered. &nbsp;Your organ either needs = replacing or repairing. <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; = PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Question: &nbsp;Politically, what approach works best? = &nbsp;Do we blindly "ask <BR>for the moon" by simply insisting on the largest, most beautifully = built <BR>instrument that'll fit &nbsp;the building and damn the financial = torpedos? &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR> &nbsp;Or do we try to assess financial realities first?</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>I think this is a both/and question. &nbsp;The first step I would = recommend is hiring an organ consultant (someone who is knowledgeable but = is NOT associated with any particular builder). &nbsp;The consultant can = deflect a lot of personal issues that otherwise would fall to you, because = he/she is more objective. &nbsp;The consultant will ask your committee = about your musical priorities and how the instrument fits those. &nbsp;And = then he/she will guide you in selecting potential bidders, and then = ultimately the builder that most closely meets your needs, musically and = financially. <BR> <BR>What helped our church is that just prior to my coming, a parishioner = bequeathed a sizable sum toward the purchase of a new pipe organ (50% of = the cost). &nbsp;Our committee (before I had arrived) had already set a = limit on how much they would spend for an organ. &nbsp;Good builders know = how to provide the best product for the dollar. <BR> <BR>As I am a firm believer in faith and prayer, I believe that God will = lead your committee to make good decisions based on your church's = financial situation. &nbsp; <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The economy being = what it is, won't people automatically whine "Oh, we can't afford this, we = can't do that?" &nbsp;Do we decide what's reasonable and then set <BR>the bar a little higher to stretch things? &nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>Some people will whine -- it's in their job descriptions to do so. = &nbsp;Others will see the need and seek ways to meet that need. &nbsp;Find = out how much similar projects cost in your area (both new installations = and rebuilds). &nbsp;Your committee can assess whether the congregation = can afford it. &nbsp;Make sure you include on your committee at least one = vocal (perhaps even anti-music) person to make sure all angles of each = discussion are covered. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Do we expect the money for = <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">the organ to be = raised completely separately from &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the church = budget itself? &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I don't think this kind of project can = reasonably be considered a typical budget item. &nbsp;This is a capital = expenditure. &nbsp;As such, it need not fit into the annual operating = budget of the church. &nbsp;It's much like a new addition to your = building.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Rumor has it that = a church near us bought <BR>about a $350,000 instrument (2-manual, beautiful workmanship!) and = then <BR>set about to raise the money. &nbsp;They raised about a third of it, = then <BR>took the rest out of their endowment funds, creating a political <BR>firestorm in the church. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>This was not smart stewardship. &nbsp;However, if the church officials = voted on this method to pay for the organ, and sufficient discussion was = allowed, there should not have been the fall-out. &nbsp;My guess is they = did not do their homework. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>As I mentioned above, our church had a bequest for approximately 50% = of the total cost of our organ. &nbsp;We borrowed from our endowment funds = (notice I said BORROW) <BR>and had the entire amount paid back in just about 2 years. &nbsp; <BR> <BR>There are any number of creative ways to finance an organ project. = &nbsp;My advice is that you keep your congregation completely apprised of = your plans and progress. &nbsp;When people KNOW, they will generally give. = &nbsp; <BR> <BR>Peace, and best wishes on the project. <BR>Neil Brown</FONT></HTML>   --part1_7a.2289b1d0.29a44997_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Need advice/politics From: "Randy Terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:59:52 -0800 (PST)   Charles,   Let the vestry or session or council or Ad. Board or what ever group is = appropriate decide how to handle the organ situation. Basically, if the place that project at # 1 or = 2 on the B & G list you won't have much complaining from the congregation. However, if you take on = the crusade alone you are the one who will get burned, even if your every wish is granted!   I suggest that you work with the lay leadership and then get them to form = a committee, THEN once that is done, your work as educator, offering options, bringing in outside = experts and builders will have the clout behind it that it needs.   I just don't think the organ should be approached any different from the = A/C - The leadership needs to place it among the list of projects in order of importance and = then when they say go, you go. This does not mean you should not share information about the costs of = band-aid projects done a bit at a time vs. the savings of doing all or most at once, etc. If you = like the job and the people best to take the back seat until the appropriate time!   Randy Terry   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Organ Music for Sale From: "Stan Guy" <texstan@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:26:10 -0600   Dear Listers ----   Over the next few days, I will be putting more organ music for sale on eBay. Just tonight I have placed several Dupre/Bournemann publications there. You may search them with "pipe organ" or use my email address as the seller.   I will be adding some collectible as well as classical and service music items within the next few days.   Thanks for your consideration.   Stan Guy texstan@earthlink.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Need advice before organ committee meets From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:10:39 EST   I think anybody prepared to help you make such decisions would be the = builder you've chosen, or if you are still choosing amongst builders, your three finalists. Having seen what people recommend on these lists, I would = really hesitate to take anybody's advice, unless they have been through the = process successfully.   Sebastian M. Gluck President and Tonal Director, Gluck New York, Restorers and Builders Editor, The Journal of American Organbuilding  
(back) Subject: Re: A pleasant sort of macabre Lent in hell From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:12:03 EST     --part1_a0.2262018b.29a46e03_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Diane,   I was organist for Eastern Star while my Dad was active. He loved to hear = me play and was so proud of me being there. After his death, I could not = play for that chapter. Someone in our church is active in Eastern Star, so = they have been trying to recruit me for 14 years. But, I did it for my Dad. = Now I put more emphasis on the music I play at church and at the nursing = homes. Lee   --part1_a0.2262018b.29a46e03_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Diane, <BR> <BR>I was organist for Eastern Star while my Dad was active. &nbsp;He = loved to hear me play and was so proud of me being there. &nbsp;After his = death, I could not play for that chapter. &nbsp;Someone in our church is = active in Eastern Star, so they have been trying to recruit me for 14 = years. &nbsp;But, I did it for my Dad. &nbsp;Now I put more emphasis on = the music I play at church and at the nursing homes. = &nbsp;Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_a0.2262018b.29a46e03_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: doing the job From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:24:18 EST     --part1_ad.18888d33.29a470e2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Ross,   I usually play whatever is available when asked to play. At one funeral = home I was told they had a nice "pipe organ." It turned out to be a digital piano. So, I just improvised a service of hymn tunes. When my step = father passed away, my mother wanted me to play for the funeral. It was in the church where I grew up, and the organ is a wonderful Hill Green and Lane, = on which I took lessons. I felt like I was in heaven right up there with Chester while I was playing. I love that organ. When they had an opening =   for organist, I could not take it, as it would have been a 44 mile commute = on Sundays and Wednesdays. Now I wish I had moved back to the city and took = it, but "You can't go home." Besides, they wanted someone who plays the = prayze choruses (and on a pipe organ). So, I stay at my Allen 300C and = occasionally the Music Director asks me to make it sound like a Hammond B3 when we do gospel choral music. I grit my teeth, but I am flexible, and it is to the =   Glory of God. Lee   --part1_ad.18888d33.29a470e2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ross, <BR> <BR>I usually play whatever is available when asked to play. &nbsp;At one = funeral home I was told they had a nice "pipe organ." &nbsp;It turned out = to be a digital piano. &nbsp;So, I just improvised a service of hymn = tunes. &nbsp;When my step father passed away, my mother wanted me to play = for the funeral. &nbsp;It was in the church where I grew up, and the organ = is a wonderful Hill Green and Lane, on which I took lessons. &nbsp;I felt = like I was in heaven right up there with Chester while I was playing. = &nbsp;I love that organ. &nbsp;When they had an opening for organist, I = could not take it, as it would have been a 44 mile commute on Sundays and = Wednesdays. &nbsp;Now I wish I had moved back to the city and took it, but = "You can't go home." &nbsp;Besides, they wanted someone who plays the = prayze choruses (and on a pipe organ). &nbsp;So, I stay at my Allen 300C = and occasionally the Music Director asks me to make it sound like a = Hammond B3 when we do gospel choral music. &nbsp;I grit my   --part1_ad.18888d33.29a470e2_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Bench setting question.... From: "Joshua Edwards" <fbcorganist@charter.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:24:40 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0009_01C1B994.393CD170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   To all the teachers out there:   I teach an organ student who is about 6' 5" or so... he has a relatively = =3D short torso, and extremely long legs. This interferes greatly with his = =3D pedal technique. We have raised the bench to its highest level, and any = =3D more would put his knees into the positive manual. Does anyone have any = =3D suggestions to how to correct and improve this situation? I just can't = =3D seem to find a comfortable position for him.   Thank you, Joshua Edwards Organist, FBC Seymour, TN     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0009_01C1B994.393CD170 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>To all the teachers out =3D there:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I teach an organ student who is about = =3D 6' 5" or=3D20 so... he has a relatively short torso, and extremely long legs.&nbsp; =3D This=3D20 interferes greatly with his pedal technique.&nbsp; We have raised the =3D bench to=3D20 its highest level, and any more would put his knees into the positive=3D20 manual.&nbsp; Does anyone have any suggestions to how to correct and =3D improve=3D20 this situation?&nbsp; I just can't seem to find a comfortable position =3D for=3D20 him.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Thank you,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Joshua Edwards</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Organist, FBC Seymour, = TN</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0009_01C1B994.393CD170--    
(back) Subject: St Mary's, Wellington From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:44:22 +1300   I should have read over my last posting before sending it, but there was someone at the front door. There were several typos, none important except the biggie that the 2ft on the Great at St Mary's is not labelled Super Quint but Super Octave. Naturally. Mea culpa. In addition to all the heaps of couplers, but no Sw16 or SwGt16, there is a SwPed2 which gives some = great possibilities. Has anyone else seen this coupler? No need for PosGt or PosPed couplers, of course. And if I sound stupidly over-enthusiastic over what looks like a very ordinary organ on paper, do ask my friend Hugh Drogemuller on this List = what he thinks of it. Regards, Ross      
(back) Subject: Re: What to do for a depressed friend? From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:27:21 EST     --part1_6f.22ce68af.29a47199_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Bruce, again I agree with you. Having been there myself, too, I find = prayer and good friends the best medicine (and Prissy, even if she isn't a = Beagle). But she is a therapy dog, and I take her to nursing homes and to homes of shut ins who want to see her. Lee   --part1_6f.22ce68af.29a47199_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bruce, again I agree = with you. &nbsp;Having been there myself, too, I find prayer and good = friends the best medicine (and Prissy, even if she isn't a Beagle). = &nbsp;But she is a therapy dog, and I take her to nursing homes and to = homes of shut ins who want to see her. &nbsp;Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_6f.22ce68af.29a47199_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Bench setting question.... From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:59:00 EST     --part1_d0.2294ba3a.29a47904_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   When I play an organ that has a bench too short for me (yes there are = some), I sit back farther on the bench. The organ and bench I have now was made = for someone over 6' tall and I have to sit on the edge of the bench. I accommodate by wearing higher heels on my shoes. Lee   --part1_d0.2294ba3a.29a47904_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>When I play an organ = that has a bench too short for me (yes there are some), I sit back farther = on the bench. &nbsp;The organ and bench I have now was made for someone = over 6' tall and I have to sit on the edge of the bench. &nbsp;I = accommodate by wearing higher heels on my shoes. &nbsp;Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_d0.2294ba3a.29a47904_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: St Mary's, Wellington From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:11:10 -0600   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> To: <Pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:44 PM Subject: St Mary's, Wellington     In addition to all the heaps > of couplers, but no Sw16 or SwGt16, there is a SwPed2 which gives some great > possibilities. Has anyone else seen this coupler?   The only Swell to Pedal 2' coupler I have come across is on the 1931 = Aeolian organ at Memorial Presbyterian Church, St. Louis, Missouri. This is a remarkable organ that includes numerous color reeds -- English Horn, = French Horn, Orchestral Oboe, Clarinet, Vox Humana, etc.; two 16' Open Woods on = the Pedal; and a stop Crescendo Pedal that is canceled by the General Cancel Piston making use of a massive pneumatic. It gives you a nasty fright if you aren't expecting it and your foot is on it at the time!   John Speller