PipeChat Digest #2629 - Saturday, January 5, 2002
 
Re: OFF-TOPIC, sorta -- thank you! and some comments (X-posted)
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: The Rector From Hell (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Rector from Hell
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Rector from Hell
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Overblowing strings
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: 8 Little Bach P&F's Baerenreiter
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Happy New Year
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Clarification:
  by "Antoni Scott" <ascott@epix.net>
Re: 8 Little Bach P&F's Baerenreiter
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
string pipes overblowing
  by "STEVE BOURNIAS" <yfd4@hotmail.com>
Re: Clarification:
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Strings jumping to the Twelfth
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
double-languid links
  by "STEVE BOURNIAS" <yfd4@hotmail.com>
double-languid links plain text
  by "STEVE BOURNIAS" <yfd4@hotmail.com>
RE.; THE RECTOR FROM HELL
  by "douglas morgan" <dkmorgan76209@yahoo.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC, sorta -- thank you! and some comments (X-posted) From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:38:31 -0800   Hey break it down Robert, to condemn all religion in this way is way over the top! If this list is about to become a "get all clergy, and down with all churches" it can do it without me. There is some pretty loose talk here. I have been a member of one denomination for more years than I care to count, and your condemnation does not fit that denomination in any way. They are caring people who practise what they preach, and without whom society would be much worse off. I think I can say the same of most of the mainstream churches also, at least in my country. Let's have a little moderation here.   I am not contradicting what Quilisma is saying about his rector but how many of you who are so roundly condemning him know the guy? None? And yet you are assassinating the fellow. You can sympathise with Quilisma without consigning to Hell a person none of you know, have never met.   And your remarks about Islam. To so lightly condemn all Islam shows you obviously know nothing about it, Robert, and so should not comment. Fair go! We have a large Islamic population in my city, living round me. They are honest, hard working, peace loving citizens and an acquisition to this country. You cannot condemn the whole of any group of people on the actions of a handful of miscreants. There is extreme danger in generalization. Bob Elms.   "COLASACCO, ROBERT" wrote: > > God, or lack of, what a horror. You poor guy. These are "religious" = folk. Seeing as the RC Church has been taken over by the anti-christ and = his/her soldiers, there seems to be a similar movement in all christian = religions as of recent. For that matter even Islamic religion seems to be = satanized (not sanitized) these days. Ah, religion human made it, human = suffers it. I'll have nothing to do with it. But you, my friend, should = get yourself away from such sadistic manipulation. Seek elsewhere. > Robert Bernardino Colasacco  
(back) Subject: Re: The Rector From Hell (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:44:41 -0800   The principal difference (or one of them, anyway) between ECUSA and the "continuing" Anglican churches in the U.S. is that the rector is virtually all-powerful. HE is the chairman of the Vestry/Corporation, and APPOINTS and UN-APPOINTS the Senior Warden at pleasure.   I really have no canonical recourse ... there IS one man in the parish who has been able to call the rector to accounting in the past, but I get the impression from talking to him that he's TIRED of that particular thankless task, and isn't willing to do so again.   Today, the rector was all friendly and cuddly like nothing had ever happened, even though he asked me to rewrite yet MORE stuff. I politely told him "no", pleading preparation and rehearsal time. He hasn't replied to THAT yet.   Cheers,   Bud   Rodney West wrote:   > I do see Neil's point here, and thought about this > possibility myself. > > However, if it turns out that he's just a mean SOB, a > meeting with your senior warden may be necessary. > > --- Innkawgneeto@cs.com wrote: > > A question just popped into my head, primarily > > directed to Bud, but I'll ask > > it publicly anyway.... > > > > Could your rector possibly be suffering from a > > medical condition, perhaps > > even a chemical imbalance that heretofore did not > > show itself? > > > > I do not mean to take his side, of course, but there > > is ALWAYS a reason why > > behavior is as it is. What you describe in your > > posts, Bud, does not sound > > like a coherent person, or a happy person, or a > > healthy person. > > > > God bless you Bud, and may He heal your Rector, or > > cause him to get on his > > everloving knees!! > > > > Neil Brown > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Rector from Hell From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:51:42 -0800   I wish to state, just to balance the ledger a little, that my pastor does not in any way fit the picture being portrayed in most of these derogatory messages which have gone so far OFF TOPIC that they should have long ago had a reprimand from the list administrator. Nor do the descriptions fit any pastor or priest of my acquaintance in a very long association with the church as an organist and an administrator. Are things so very bad all over American or have we a few getting on the band wagon and the satisfied majority remaining silent? If the clergy in America are so very bad, I am sorry for you, but it is not of much interest to those who wish to discuss the organ, the purpose of this list. By the way I am a Church leader having been in administration as a secretary and Councillor for many years. I certainly resent the generalization in this particular posting which lumps all church leaders in the same basket. Let's have some moderation, and let's get back to the discussion of organs. This is way off topic. Bob Elms.   Flutepipe@aol.com wrote: > > Bud, List: > > I am very sorry that somehow Church leadership do not know the meaning = of holiness, instead they think in human terms and do not make decisions = with God in mind. They want what ever their flesh wants. However, this = is not limited to any denomination, almost every denomination has the = same problem >  
(back) Subject: Re: Rector from Hell From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:54:01 -0800   True! The pastorate of the church is a tiny minority. From recent postings I wonder it can survive the membership! Bob Elms.   Stan Yoder wrote: > > The surest proof of the divine nature of The Church is the way it = survives the people in it. > > Stan Yoder > Pittsburgh >  
(back) Subject: Overblowing strings From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:06:25 EST   Strings are voiced to overblow, in most cases, and then brought down to = their fundamental with a variety of devices.   The newest issue of The Journal of American Organbuilding, now at the presses, contains an article on the String Voicing Seminar held jointly by =   the American Institute of Organbuilders and the International Society of Organbuilders.   This is the first of a continuing series of articles on string design, construction, and voicing, from 18th century strings to hyper-pressure orchestral strings. Non-AIO members can subscribe. Ask to have your subscription start with Volume 16, Number 3.   Subscriptions The American Institute of Organbuilders P.O. Box 130982 Houston, TX 77219-0982 $12 per annum, $32 for three years, U$16 per annum for foreign = subscriptions Make checks payable to "American Institute of Organbuilders"  
(back) Subject: Re: 8 Little Bach P&F's Baerenreiter From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:20:38 -0600       noel jones wrote:   > Could someone email me with the volume number for the correct > Baerenreiter volume with the 8 little in it?   Since some scholars are doubtful about the accuracy of the attribution to JSB, I believe that the 8 little P&F's are not included in the = B=E4renreiter NBA....     ns    
(back) Subject: Re: Happy New Year From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:15:31 EST     --part1_13f.738c1c9.2967bbc3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/4/02 7:07:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike3247@earthlink.net writes:     > Mike adds: > As a very new student of things pipe organic, I will tell you that = they > do > indeed follow the lists, and if you ask reasonable, earnest questions, = you > will > find that they will often answer you privately, not wanting to get = caught > up in > the circus that comprises most of the list's content. > >   .... which is very unfortunate, since that leave others on the list who = are interested without benefit or enjoyment of their contributions. Isn't = that why most of us are here?   <A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit <A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi   --part1_13f.738c1c9.2967bbc3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/4/02 7:07:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike3247@earthlink.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Mike adds: <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;As a very new student of things pipe organic, I = will tell you that they do <BR>indeed follow the lists, and if you ask reasonable, earnest questions, = you will <BR>find that they will often answer you privately, not wanting to get = caught up in <BR>the circus that comprises most of the list's content. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>... which is very unfortunate, since that leave others on the list who = are interested without benefit or enjoyment of their contributions. = &nbsp;&nbsp;Isn't that why most of us are here? <BR> <BR> &nbsp;<I><A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit &nbsp;<I><A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> </I>and meet = the Baskerbeagles: &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi </FONT></HTML>   --part1_13f.738c1c9.2967bbc3_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Clarification: From: "Antoni Scott" <ascott@epix.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 21:24:15 -0500   All:   I was unaware that my enthusiastic interest in some digital organs (either sampled sounds or synthesized) was in any way suggesting that the days of the pipe organ are over. Maybe I allowed my enthusiasm to get the better of my judgment. Just for the record. I do not own a commercial brand of digital organ, and do not plan to. If and when I can be "fooled" into believing I am listening to a "pipe" organ, then, maybe I will take the plunge. Recently, I turned down the idea of "taking the plunge" because the "Mixtures" did not sound quite right. Stop by stop, note by note, some digital stuff sounds quite good. It's the ensemble that makes it all fall flat. I have yet to hear a digital "Mixture" in the ensemble that sounds real.   Recently, I was asked to get involved in an organ committee choosing an organ for a average sized church ( 20-30 ranks). Naturally, with a blank check book, the choice is simple. Regrettably, sooner or later someone spoils the fantasy by suggesting that there is a bottom line. My suggestion was always to "augment" the expensive, space and wind consuming pedal division with digital electronics and use that space and saved money for "real" pipes in the manual divisions. As to be expected, the organ committee weighed the pro's and con's for such a incredible length of time, that no decision was made at all. The original specification which included re-using real organ pipes from the previous organ was added to and changed so many times that it was finally decided that the money would be better spent in some other area of the church. I am afraid that a digital substitute may now be the only choice. The "purists" may feel there is no room for compromise, and others may feel that "half of something is better than a whole of nothing". Right now they don't have an organ at all !!!!!!!   Anybody that knows more than I do about pipe organs and pipe organ building gets my attention. I really don't know much about organs other than re-leathering and wiring. As an enthusiastic layman, I enjoy the discussion and knowledge that list members report. I appreciate anyone that really knows how to "voice" pipes.     Antoni Scott  
(back) Subject: Re: 8 Little Bach P&F's Baerenreiter From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 21:34:15 -0500   Ah.   I guess I should have known that another Noel would know!   Thank you!..   noel  
(back) Subject: string pipes overblowing From: "STEVE BOURNIAS" <yfd4@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 02:44:19 +0000   Do not some string pipes speak or overblow at the twelfth before being fitted with a harmonic bridge or "beard"? Steve in Ohio       >From: RMaryman@aol.com Reply-To: "PipeChat" To: pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: Re: "overblowing" or harmonic pipes an addendum if I may be >permitted. Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:30:57 EST > >Adding one other thing to the long and thorough posting from Herr = gluck... >the other instance where overblowing can be employed is in the voicing of =   >very narrow scaled "orchestral" strings such as 'violin' stops made by >WurliTzer and other builders wirking with higher wind pressures. the = pipes >are voiced to overblow to speak the octave, then they are fitted with a >'roller' (which is usually a round wooden dowel) within the ears at the >side of the mouth. this causes the pipe to once again speak at the >fundamental pitch, but this results in the production of a very high = order >of upper harmonics resulting in a very keen tone. > >Rick in VA           _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx    
(back) Subject: Re: Clarification: From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:05:12 EST     --part1_16.1800a455.2967c768_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/4/02 9:21:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, = ascott@epix.net writes:     > Regrettably, sooner or later someone > spoils the fantasy by suggesting that there is a bottom line. My > suggestion was always to "augment" the expensive, space and wind > consuming pedal division with digital electronics and use that space and > saved money for "real" pipes in the manual divisions. As to be expected, > the organ committee weighed the pro's and con's for such a incredible > length of time, that no decision was made at all.   I think this is partially the result of the "mixed message" given to them = by suggesting "some digital augmentation." This immediately confuses them regarding the choice of pipe or digital. "Well, if a little digital is = OK, why not the whole dange thing?" It is so much more efficient to make a decision for a pipe organ and then purchase what you can afford, possibly with preparations, and then accept the fact that to have quality you may = have limitations as well. If you want one of everything and don't really care =   about the quality of real pipe sounds, then get a digital. I would not want to play a mix 'n match!   <A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit <A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi   --part1_16.1800a455.2967c768_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/4/02 9:21:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, ascott@epix.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Regrettably, = sooner or later someone <BR>spoils the fantasy by suggesting that there is a bottom line. &nbsp;My <BR>suggestion was always to "augment" the expensive, space and wind <BR>consuming pedal division with digital electronics and use that space = and <BR>saved money for "real" pipes in the manual divisions. As to be = expected, <BR>the organ committee weighed the pro's and con's for such a incredible <BR>length of time, that no decision was made at all. </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I think this is partially the result of the "mixed message" given to = them by suggesting "some digital augmentation." &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This = immediately confuses them regarding the choice of pipe or digital. = &nbsp;"Well, if a little digital is OK, why not the whole dange thing?" = &nbsp;&nbsp;It is so much more efficient to make a decision for a pipe = organ and then purchase what you can afford, possibly with preparations, = and then accept the fact that to have quality you may have limitations as = well. &nbsp;&nbsp;If you want one of everything and don't really care = about the quality of real pipe sounds, then get a digital. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I would not want to play a mix 'n match! <BR> <BR> &nbsp;<I><A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit &nbsp;<I><A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> </I>and meet = the Baskerbeagles: &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi </FONT></HTML>   --part1_16.1800a455.2967c768_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Strings jumping to the Twelfth From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:53:59 EST   Dear Steve:   Yes, strings, as well as flutes, can overblow to the Twelfth, if the cutup = is very low and the toehole too large. Then again, pipes that are so = vigorously overblown may not speak at all. Remember that string pipes, as they approach "accurate" or "imitative" =   rather than "suggestive" string tone, require several factors: increasing =   pressure, diminishing scales, higher tin content, narrower mouths, larger bridges and ears, more nicks, and YES, higher cutups. The recent midyear String Voicing Seminar given jointly by the = American Institute of Organbuilders and the International Society of Organbuilders = was intended to assure that an essentially ignored art would not become a forgotten, or even lost art. The workshop covered everything from = historic string voicing to high-pressure VDO design, to building a Haskelled wooden =   32' Violone based upon the Audsley engravings of the Schulze Armley Violone!!! That is why I was urging people to subscribe to our quarterly, =   which will eventually expand in scope, content, and hopefully, frequency = of issue.   SMG  
(back) Subject: double-languid links From: "STEVE BOURNIAS" <yfd4@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 04:32:21 +0000   <html><div style=3D'background-color:'><DIV><A = href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dorgan+%22double+languid%22&amp;num= =3D100&amp;newwindow=3D1&amp;as_qdr=3Dall&amp;filter=3D0">http://www.google= .com/search?q=3Dorgan+%22double+languid%22&amp;num=3D100&amp;newwindow=3D1&= amp;as_qdr=3Dall&amp;filter=3D0</A></DIV></div><br clear=3Dall><hr>MSN = Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a = href=3D'http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>  
(back) Subject: double-languid links plain text From: "STEVE BOURNIAS" <yfd4@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 04:34:40 +0000   http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dorgan+%22double+languid%22&num=3D100&newwi= ndow=3D1&as_qdr=3Dall&filter=3D0       _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at = http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.    
(back) Subject: RE.; THE RECTOR FROM HELL From: "douglas morgan" <dkmorgan76209@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:50:03 -0800 (PST)   >>Roy Perry once said to me that "the religion business >>would be a damned nice business to be in if it >weren't >>for the goddamned Christians." >> >>Roy Perry was Organist-Choirmaster for forty years at >>the First Presbyterian Church in Kilgore, Texas. >> >>D. Keith Morgan     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/