PipeChat Digest #2630 - Saturday, January 5, 2002
 
St James's Newtown
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: A real mixture (from awhile back)
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: string pipes overblowing
  by "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net>
What is germane to the list?
  by <MFoxy9795@aol.com>
Re: Rector from Hell
  by <MFoxy9795@aol.com>
Keep Your Pink Trap Shut
  by <Bobmac36@aol.com>
RE: clergy and organists
  by "Barry Bodie" <bbodie@InfoAve.Net>
John L Bell & Graham Maule
  by "Paul Austin" <paul-austin@ntlworld.com>
Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: What is germane to the list?
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: St James's Newtown
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: What is germane to the list?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: What is germane to the list?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: St James's Newtown From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 23:28:21 +1300   Dear List, Today I was asked by an old friend to play the organ for his upcoming wedding just after Easter and thought you might be interested in the = organ. It's in St James's Presbyterian, Newtown, Wellington, an hour's drive from here and was one I used to play quite a lot when at University over 40 = years ago. It was built by Henry Tustin in 1916. Tustin was an employee of = Norman & Beard who came out in 1906 to supervise the erection of the 4/57 in Wellington Town Hall and stayed on. The Newtown organ was built with exhaust--pneumatic action on slider chests. The church is a high wooden structure, roughly square, and seating only about 120 maximum. The organ is high at the front, spread across the front wall, i.e. the Great and Swell chests are side-by-side, letting maximum = tone and volume out. Apart from electrification in the 1960s by the inferior builder John Lee nothing has been done to it. Its scheme is, remarkably - GREAT 8 Open Diapason 1 (CC) 8 Open Diapason 2 (CC) 8 Dulciana (CC) 8 Claribel Flute (wood, open cMidC up) 4 Principal 2 Fifteenth   SWELL 8 Hohl Flute (mostly open metal, basses stopt) 8 Gamba (CC) 8 Celeste (TenC) 4 Harmonic Flute (metal) 8 Oboe (CC)   PEDAL 32 Acoustic Bass (der., quite successful, new 1960s) 16 Open Diapason (metal, extn Gt.OpDiap 1, c17" scale at CCC) 16 Gamba (mitred, metal to CCC, c6" at CCC) 16 Bourdon (wood) 8 Bass Flute (extn Bdn) 4 Octave Flute (extn Bdn, new 1960s)   Lots of couplers and a few pistons.   The Contra Gamba, a superb stop sounding like an orchestral double bass, used to be on the Swell. The OpDiap 16ft is a full, round, clear-sounding stop of great depth. The = 3 8ft open ranks on the Great all have zinc basses which are in the long pipefence. All the rest of the pipes are heavy spotted metal except where noted. The Oboe is remarkably full and quite loud, being of big scale and having been revoiced by Maxwell Fernie in about 1961. There has never been a Principal rank on the Swell, yet the Pedal has = those wonderful Pedal 16fts which make the whole instrument a very noble organ indeed, in spite of the poor design. The wind pressure is some 3.25" throughout. An amazing organ for a small wooden church.   Regards, Ross      
(back) Subject: Re: A real mixture (from awhile back) From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 06:05:33 -0600     "COLASACCO, ROBERT" wrote: > I would like to hear a stop where each pipe for each key is of a = different > family, i.e., the C is a tuba pipe, C# is an Aeolian, D is a rohrflote, = D# > is a stopped diapason, E is a krumhorn, F is an harmonic flute, F# is a > Salicional, G is a Tuba mirabilis, G# is a diapason, A is a Viola da = Gamba, > etc. That, my friends, is a true mixture. THAT, my friends, would be a = VERY > cruel April Fools trick to play on an organist.   The sad part is: there IS such a Mixture currently in Scaneateles, NY in the Pedal Division of the soon-to-be-replaced "organ" (using that term charitably!) in Doug Campbell's (former?) Presbyterian church.   Bernie, the parts-assembly (again: putting this charitably!) was obviously hurting on $ by the time he got to the Pedal and went scavenging for whatever he could find that played the correct pitch. The composition in terms of pipe ranks on this abomination isn't too far off from what is listed above!!!   Faithfully, Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Re: string pipes overblowing From: "The Schneider Family" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 06:19:16 -0600   STEVE BOURNIAS wrote: > Do not some string pipes speak or overblow at the twelfth before being > fitted with a harmonic bridge or "beard"? Steve in Ohio   My experience has been that pipes are usually only set to speak the octave before having Harmonic Bridges applied to them. Faithfully,   Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: What is germane to the list? From: <MFoxy9795@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:40:53 EST   In a message dated 1/4/2002 7:57:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:   > Are > things so very bad all over American or have we a few getting on the > band wagon and the satisfied majority remaining silent? > If the clergy in America are so very bad, I am sorry for you, but it is > not of much interest to those who wish to discuss the organ, the = purpose > of this list.   i have no way of comparing clergy in the US with those in Aussie. = however, i can tell you that things were INDEED so bad that the Boston chapter of the =   AGO had a special session a number of years ago to discuss the problem. = they could probably keep having such sessions, but since they did not come to a =   clear conclusion about what to do about the problem, they most likely = figured there was no point.   and i do think that organist-clergy relations are germane to the list. = the fact of the matter is, most organs are in churches, the great majority of organists play in and make their livings from churches, and the clergy = have such a large say in this.   Merry  
(back) Subject: Re: Rector from Hell From: <MFoxy9795@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:42:37 EST   yes, but that tiny minority wields the majority of the power, so of course = it survives.   In a message dated 1/4/2002 7:58:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:   > True! The pastorate of the church is a tiny minority. From recent > postings I wonder it can survive the membership! > Bob Elms. > > Stan Yoder wrote: > > > > The surest proof of the divine nature of The Church is the way it survives > the people in it. > > > > Stan Yoder > > Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut From: <Bobmac36@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 09:07:38 EST   Alexander McCurdy, head of the organ department at the Curtis Institute in =   Philadelphia, used to tell his students to "keep their pink traps shut" = when it came to dealing with clergy and church officials. It has taken me = years to realize that he was absolutely right. Having finally learned my = lesson, I have a senior pastor who will NOT make any musical decisions without first =   consulting me. I, in turn, reply "yes" or "of course" or "certainly" - = with an occasional suggestion if I think it's appropriate. The results - = Harmony all around. The best boss I've ever had. Try it. It makes life so much better - less complicated - and everyone benefits.  
(back) Subject: RE: clergy and organists From: "Barry Bodie" <bbodie@InfoAve.Net> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 09:58:13 -0500   No, but the same Dean who fired Martin Neary also fired Malcolm Archer and had a row with Christopher Brayne, now in the USA. He's noted for not getting on with musicians. Word has it that there were some financial improprieties involved with the Martin Neary situation and even QEII herself got involved.   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Bob Elms Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:16 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: clergy and organists   Better stay off the Westminster Abbey affair I believe. According to the accounts I read through an organization I belong to, there were circumstances there that had to be dealt with. You shoud NEVER condemn a person on hearsay. Robert Lind and Ross are getting into very dangerous water here! Bob Elms.   Robert Lind wrote: > > Ross--Is this Westminster Abbey clergyperson the same guy who fired > Simon Preston, Neary's immediate predecessor ( I think), back around 1987? > > If so, that's quite a track record. > > Robert Lind   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: John L Bell & Graham Maule From: "Paul Austin" <paul-austin@ntlworld.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:47:21 +0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C19600.4362CF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable       Dear list,   Could anybody tell me where I can find information on John L Bell and =3D Graham Maule. I understand that they have written allot of hymn tunes =3D to go with words written by the Iona Community. I have searched the =3D internet but have not found any substantial information.   Thankyou in advance.   Paul.   paul-austin@ntlworld.com or paul_austin75@hotmail.com Billingham - UK   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C19600.4362CF40 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Dear list,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Could anybody tell me where I can find information = =3D on John L=3D20 Bell and Graham Maule.&nbsp; I understand that they have written = allot=3D20 of&nbsp;hymn tunes to go with words written by the Iona Community.&nbsp; = =3D I have=3D20 searched the internet but have not found any substantial=3D20 information.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Thankyou in advance.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Paul.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:paul-austin@ntlworld.com">paul-austin@ntlworld.com</A> or = =3D <A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:paul_austin75@hotmail.com">paul_austin75@hotmail.com</A><B= =3D R>Billingham=3D20 - UK</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C19600.4362CF40--    
(back) Subject: Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 08:40:35 -0800   I do ... I work at home ... I NEVER telephone the Rector unless I = absolutely HAVE to. If I was in a situation where the liturgy was REALLY fixed, like an = old anglo-catholic parish, that would be fine. But I'm in a situation where he tinkers with the details constantly, mostly having to do with the music.   Recently he demanded that I stop writing out the melody lines of the = chants for the congregation (despite having spent a considerable sum of money to get = me a new computer and Sibelius two years ago so I COULD write out music for the congregation), and provide the pointed texts only so that they will fit on = a half-sheet insert. I complied, using the common pointing in the 1940 = Episcopal Hymnal. He returned THOSE, saying that he didn't like the style of = pointing. Well, what am I to do? There is no other style of pointing that a = traditionalist Anglican congregation can read, if indeed they remember how to read THAT.   That's just one example. I make my music-lists two or three times a year = ... usually I do Sept-Jan in July or August, Feb-May between Christmas and New Year's, and June-July-August in Low Week. If he wants to make changes, he = has ample opportunity; I have a fair amount of music to write for each period, because we never do exactly the same things every year. Invariably he will = demand extensive changes a week or two before the service in question, when there = is no time to rewrite the music OR teach it to the choir. I have attempted to = discuss this with him, to no avail.   For instance, he told me this year that there would be NO money for extra musicians for Christmas, unless we received a donation. Now, we ALWAYS = receive a donation, but it usually doesn't come in until too late to hire people, so = I just go on and hire them in September. But this year he wouldn't allow that. = The donation didn't come in until after Thanksgiving, and I was scrambling to = round up people to do the program I'd planned over the summer, and rehearsed = with the choir since September. The church isn't poor; there's MORE than enough = money available to cover that if for some reason the donation DIDN'T come in.   I am very methodical; I seldom make changes in the music-lists unless = choir members are ill or away and we can't DO something I've listed; he thinks = that (with a volunteer choir) I can make changes at the drop of a hat. I = rewrote the Fall and Winter service-lists FOUR times before he was satisfied, and by = then we were WELL into the choir season.   There's no way to AVOID having to interact with him.   Cheers,   Bud   Bobmac36@aol.com wrote:   > Alexander McCurdy, head of the organ department at the Curtis Institute = in > Philadelphia, used to tell his students to "keep their pink traps shut" = when > it came to dealing with clergy and church officials. It has taken me = years > to realize that he was absolutely right. Having finally learned my = lesson, I > have a senior pastor who will NOT make any musical decisions without = first > consulting me. I, in turn, reply "yes" or "of course" or "certainly" - = with > an occasional suggestion if I think it's appropriate. The results - = Harmony > all around. The best boss I've ever had. Try it. It makes life so = much > better - less complicated - and everyone benefits. >    
(back) Subject: Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:50:52 -0600   At 08:40 AM 1/5/02 -0800, you wrote: >I do ... I work at home ... I NEVER telephone the Rector unless I >absolutely HAVE >to. If I was in a situation where the liturgy was REALLY fixed, like an = old >anglo-catholic parish, that would be fine. But I'm in a situation where = he >tinkers with the details constantly, mostly having to do with the music. Ever consider doing a Silent Sunday...where only his voice would be heard?   jch    
(back) Subject: Re: What is germane to the list? From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 08:51:43 -0800   I would also point out that PipeChat is somewhat (a LOT) more relaxed than = either piporg or piporgue (both of which seem to be dying on the vine) as to what = can and can't be discussed, though I'm not one of the listowners.   I look to these lists for support, especially in troubled times like = these. Sebastian Gluck's writings after Sept. 11th moved me deeply ... they were = also a first-hand account of what was going on in Lower Manhattan ... things one = didn't get from the news account.   To sweep MAJOR problems under the rug that affect MOST organists , like = clergy relations or liturgical revision, does us a disservice, I think.   Now I'll quit whining about The Rector From Hell, as only an Act of God = will solve THAT particulary problem (grin).   Cheers,   Bud, a full-time CHURCH organist   MFoxy9795@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 1/4/2002 7:57:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, > elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes: > > > Are > > things so very bad all over American or have we a few getting on the > > band wagon and the satisfied majority remaining silent? > > If the clergy in America are so very bad, I am sorry for you, but it = is > > not of much interest to those who wish to discuss the organ, the = purpose > > of this list. > > i have no way of comparing clergy in the US with those in Aussie. = however, i > can tell you that things were INDEED so bad that the Boston chapter of = the > AGO had a special session a number of years ago to discuss the problem. = they > could probably keep having such sessions, but since they did not come to = a > clear conclusion about what to do about the problem, they most likely = figured > there was no point. > > and i do think that organist-clergy relations are germane to the list. = the > fact of the matter is, most organs are in churches, the great majority = of > organists play in and make their livings from churches, and the clergy = have > such a large say in this. > > Merry > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 09:03:18 -0800   I have ... he'd fire me on the SPOT (grin). Unlike old anglo-catholics, he REFUSES to have said services if music isn't available.   I had a stroke three weeks before Easter two years ago ... dazed and = confused, I played the ENTIRE Holy Week schedule AND two Masses on Easter, mostly in a wheelchair at the piano, since I couldn't keep my balance on the organ = bench ... but I was TOLD that I WOULD play the organ on Easter Day or there would be "consequences" ... so I did, with two choir members HOLDING ME UP so I = wouldn't fall over. I wasn't able to use the pedals, and it was some time before I recovered sufficiently so that I could.   I am also a parishioner (probably a BIG mistake, but they demanded that I register in the Parish) ... I have had three life-threatening illnesses = since I've been there, though I've managed to miss only four Sundays in four = years ..... I took vacation time for the one emergency surgery, which meant that = I then played without a break for a year and a half AFTER the surgery. NONE of = those times has he come to the hospital OR the house to anoint me or give me = Holy Communion, despite calls from my family.   Just so everyone knows, I am still competent. I don't miss services or rehearsals; I seldom miss notes; I DON'T play big organ literature = anymore, but I never DID at St. Matthew's, on account of the dreadful organ and = dreadful room, AND the tight schedule on Sunday.   Cheers,   Bud, who DID promise to quit whining (grin)   jch wrote:   > At 08:40 AM 1/5/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I do ... I work at home ... I NEVER telephone the Rector unless I > >absolutely HAVE > >to. If I was in a situation where the liturgy was REALLY fixed, like an = old > >anglo-catholic parish, that would be fine. But I'm in a situation where = he > >tinkers with the details constantly, mostly having to do with the = music. > Ever consider doing a Silent Sunday...where only his voice would be = heard? > > jch > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 11:57:29 -0500   Test ----- Original Message ----- From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Keep Your Pink Trap Shut     > At 08:40 AM 1/5/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I do ... I work at home ... I NEVER telephone the Rector unless I > >absolutely HAVE > >to. If I was in a situation where the liturgy was REALLY fixed, like an old > >anglo-catholic parish, that would be fine. But I'm in a situation where he > >tinkers with the details constantly, mostly having to do with the = music. > Ever consider doing a Silent Sunday...where only his voice would be = heard? > > jch > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: St James's Newtown From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:12:50 EST     --part1_11f.99c653a.29688e12_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Wow! What that must have sounded like with TWO Open Diapasons, Octave, Fifteenth, coupled to the Swell Gambas at 16 and 8. = Scrumptioyummymosa!!!!   It is really amazing how "poor design" can sometimes work so well. I = would love to have an instrument like this closeby (the livingroom perhaps!!).     <A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit <A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi   --part1_11f.99c653a.29688e12_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Wow! &nbsp;&nbsp;What = that must have sounded like with TWO Open Diapasons, Octave, Fifteenth, = coupled to the Swell Gambas at 16 and 8. = &nbsp;&nbsp;Scrumptioyummymosa!!!! <BR> <BR>It is really amazing how "poor design" can sometimes work so well. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I would love to have an instrument like this closeby = (the livingroom perhaps!!). <BR> <BR> <BR> &nbsp;<I><A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit &nbsp;<I><A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> </I>and meet = the Baskerbeagles: &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi </FONT></HTML>   --part1_11f.99c653a.29688e12_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: What is germane to the list? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:24:04 EST     --part1_73.18ad11d5.296890b4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I think one of the reasons (perhaps, the main reason) that there are more clergy problems in the USA is that the church here has become a business which is run by very incompetent CEOs. There are very few clergy who = are good administrators, and most people who are in positions of authority operate on the premist that "it's ONLY the church!" Cheapness, slovenly =   maintenance in all forms, and poor employee relations abound. I once = heard a clergy wife remark, "I have known so many wonderful people who were very =   wise and care in business who, as soon as they took office on the Vestry, = had their brains suddenly turned to mush!" The church as we have it in the =   USA has strayed far, far away from the spiritual institution that it is supposed to be. I don't think money is the root of all evil, but it certainly does make it possible to become involved in it! In other countries where the Church is less commercialized, it has suffered from = poor attendance, possibly because of "poor marketing," but has fared much = better spiritually. This is just an observation, however. In any case, I miss =   being around clergy who at least behaved in a "holy" way when out and = about, and who treated people in a loving and Christian way. I recall being = very shocked and dismayed in 1978 when I heard my first clergy person swear. Seems to me, it was the beginning of the end for me.     <A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit <A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi   --part1_73.18ad11d5.296890b4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>I think one of the = reasons (perhaps, the main reason) that there are more clergy problems in = the USA is that the church here has become a business which is run by very = incompetent CEOs. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;There are very few clergy who are good = administrators, and most people who are in positions of authority operate = on the premist that "it's ONLY the church!" &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Cheapness, = slovenly maintenance in all forms, and poor employee relations abound. = &nbsp;&nbsp;I once heard a clergy wife remark, "I have known so many = wonderful people who were very wise and care in business who, as soon as = they took office on the Vestry, had their brains suddenly turned to mush!" = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The church as we have it in the USA has strayed = far, far away from the spiritual institution that it is supposed to be. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I don't think money is the root of all evil, but it = certainly does make it possible to become involved in it! &nb <BR> <BR> <BR> &nbsp;<I><A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit &nbsp;<I><A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> </I>and meet = the Baskerbeagles: &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi </FONT></HTML>   --part1_73.18ad11d5.296890b4_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: What is germane to the list? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:33:10 EST     --part1_164.6af6217.296892d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/5/02 11:52:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:     > Now I'll quit whining about The Rector From Hell, as only an Act of God = will > solve THAT particulary problem (grin). >   We'll pray for "good aim!!" ;-)   <A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit <A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi   --part1_164.6af6217.296892d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/5/02 11:52:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Now I'll quit = whining about The Rector From Hell, as only an Act of God will <BR>solve THAT particulary problem (grin). <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>We'll pray for "good aim!!" &nbsp;&nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR> &nbsp;<I><A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit &nbsp;<I><A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> </I>and meet = the Baskerbeagles: &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi </FONT></HTML>   --part1_164.6af6217.296892d6_boundary--