PipeChat Digest #2646 - Saturday, January 12, 2002
 
Re:  All day sings with dinner on the grounds
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
?
  by "Shirley Vanest" <koehnken@comsys.net>
Re: Totally off-topic casserole query . . .
  by "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org>
Re: ?
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Organist's Fees
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Okra
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
RE: All Day Sing With Dinner On The Grounds
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
fees
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Organist fees
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: fees
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: fees
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Off topic - plain text
  by "Paul Austin" <paul-austin@ntlworld.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: All day sings with dinner on the grounds From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:54:12 EST   Bud writes:   >Church dinners are referred to as "dinner on the grounds" >... in the old days, they used to be "All-Day Sings With Dinner On the >Grounds", using one of the shape-note hymnals, usually Sacred Harp = Harmony. <<   Hey Bud, you are way behind the times with this definition. The Southern Baptists changed it to "All day dinner and singing on the grounds" years = ago. The difference may be subtle but did wonders for membership. Methodists soon followed suit, thus their current moniker of "chicken-eatin' = Methodists" down south.   When I was a kid, we had a community "tabernacle" which was used by the Bap's, Meth's, and Presbies for just such events. Traveling quartets were =   common visitors, sang for a little money and all the food they could eat. =   Old time "brush arbors" were quite common, being just a pitched roof for shade over bench seating. An upright pi-anny was the only instrument used =   and the more honky-tonk it sounded the greater its value. :) Climate control was those little paper fans which the funeral homes provided, you know, the ones with the thin wood handles which doubled as fly swatters = for gnats, flies, and occasional yellow jackets.   IMHO, if these were staged today by "civilized city churches" they would = be heavily attended. At the two churches I serve, their idea of "roughing = it" is a pot-luck supper at Fellowship Hall in air conditioned comfort with janitors to clean up the mess.   I had a lot of fun at the "All day dinners & singing.........." as a youngster. Great place to meet girls (hee-hee-hee).   Best wishes, Jim Pitts  
(back) Subject: ? From: "Shirley Vanest" <koehnken@comsys.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:02:50 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0036_01C19ADA.F2878400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I put my name on the pipechat list to inform all of you about Rick Veague. I've tried everyway I know how to get my name OFF the list and so far have not been successful. HELP!   Shirley Vanest koehnken@comsys.net   To be completely honest is to realize you really are not, therefore? Ness         ------=3D_NextPart_000_0036_01C19ADA.F2878400 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D3D4>I put my name on = the =3D pipechat=3D20 list to inform all of you about Rick Veague.&nbsp; I've tried everyway I = =3D know=3D20 how to get my name OFF the list and so far have not been =3D successful.&nbsp;=3D20 HELP!</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" =3D size=3D3D4></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D3D4>Shirley=3D20 Vanest</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D3D4><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:koehnken@comsys.net">koehnken@comsys.net</A></FONT></STRON= =3D G></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D3D4>To be completely = =3D honest is to=3D20 realize you really are not, therefore?&nbsp; Ness</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3D"Comic Sans MS"=3D20 size=3D3D4><BR></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0036_01C19ADA.F2878400--    
(back) Subject: Re: Totally off-topic casserole query . . . From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:07:21 -0500   > Of course Okra is a given -----always leave it out.   Amen and AMEN! Leave it OUT! TommyLee      
(back) Subject: Re: ? From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:24:55 -0600   No need to reply to shirley's note - i have removed her -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Organist's Fees From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:34:07 EST   Ron Severin writes:     >What I don't see is a funeral is just as much work as a wedding, >they should be charged out the same, not a discount for a sad occasion. >I could never fathom that idea as if the person all of a sudden got poor >when he/she died. <<   Ron, I probably play for five or six funerals a week since I am on call as =   organist for two large funeral homes. I have a set fee which I assume is passed on as one of the "disclosed expenses" to the family. I have two = fees, one for the funeral home chapel and one for a church service (more for the =   church). My fees are less than those proposed by you and others, but I do = so many and the music is quite repetitive, even for soloists (How Great Thou Art, The Lord's Prayer, Amazing Grace, Ave Maria, etc.) Two other = organists who work services I cannot charge accordingly.   I do not charge a fee for active members of the two churches where I am organist. It is not uncommon that an honorariam is given to me for these services. When that is done, I consistantly make a memorial gift to = American Heart Assn., American Cancer Society, Hospice organizations (what ever is appropriate) in the deceased's name. The organizations notify the family directly of the memorial gift. My gratis services for my congregations = have been challenged by other organists locally as improper. "They pay the preacher, don't they?" is often the statement heard. I consider my congregations extended family and this is my recognition in lieu of = flowers, sympathy cards, and such. I am comfortable with it regardless of how = anyone else feels about my personal policy not to charge my parishioners.   My fee for services not handled by the two funeral homes I play for = depends on what is involved. Usually $100 to $125 is standard for me.   Weddings are another thing. Its $150, take it or leave it and I hope they =   leave it!!! Normally weddings are a snap. Its the damned three hour rehearsals which = are a royal pain in the bench area.   Best wishes, Jim Pitts      
(back) Subject: Okra From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:16:18 -0600   What's wrong with okra? Doesn't it look like an organ pipe?   Well, maybe not . . .   But good in soups and fried.   Glenda Sutton          
(back) Subject: RE: All Day Sing With Dinner On The Grounds From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:16:18 -0600   Couldn't have said it better than Bud's definition of "dinner on the grounds". Most of the picnic grounds are gone nowadays. My father's mother's family used to meet the Sunday nearest July 4 at a tiny Methodist church down a clay road that had the concrete covered picnic tables a la 1960s "Wayside Park" motif in front of the old cemetery. But it was miserably hot - always in the 100s - and usually raining or between showers, so we evolved into an indoor gathering under air conditioning (God rest John Gorrie's soul!). Cheers,   Glenda Sutton (who lives roughly 30 miles from the town that boasts the world's largest all-night gospel sing on July 4 weekend each year)          
(back) Subject: fees From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:43:45 +1300   Ron & List, The discussion on fees is an interesting one, as indeed is the idea of = what is a Vicar's salary. For my part, as a Vicar of 25 years ministry, I earned only the standard = NZ Anglican stipend of $34,000 per annum, and no parish is allowed by = Anglican Church law in this country to pay any more. And extra did not come in "allowances" apart from the rent-free Vicarage, as I got no travel = allowance at all, provided my own computer and software, never had $1 of secertarial help, and had to pay all my own expenses on my own car when involved in parish work. Further, I refused, absolutely point blank, ever to accept any "fee" whatever for weddings, funerals or anything else for people who were = church attenders on Sundays. If they were "outsiders" coming for a wedding or funeral, I got the same fee as the organist - $100 - and yet I had to do hours of work over sometimes as many as six sessions, with prospective married couples, and for funerals hours of sometimes very difficult = pastoral work with grieving families, plus often have to attend post-wedding and post-funeral bunfights as well. So, I was far worse off than any organist who just came and went, with never even a choir to accompany. As far as baptisms are concerned, that was even "worse", if that's the = right word, as I'd spend hours on preparation with the parents, amounting to a number of sessions often, with no guarantee the family would ever even = come to church after. And the Bishop who ordained me totally forbade me to = accept any fee whatever, as "no one pays a priest for the administration of the sacraments." I had thought a small fee was appropriate, say even just $20, for non-parishioners, but my Bishop heard of it and I was reprimanded and ordered to take the money back to the family and apologise, forbidden even to post it back. So, please, let's not talk as if clergy swan around in luxury compared = with poor organists. They don't, not here in NZ. Regards, Ross      
(back) Subject: Re: Organist fees From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:00:24 EST     --part1_d3.4c8c32a.29710ed8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/11/02 2:24:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, opus1100@catoe.org writes:     > The grieving widow > generally has other matters of a graver concern such as were did the old =   > codger hide his money. > >   But there are very often other relatives who are anxious to be "nice" to = the deceased to make up for prior neglect. Funerals can be as trying as weddings. The main difference is that there is no rehearsal for a = funeral, unless you count the "wake."   <A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit <A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi   --part1_d3.4c8c32a.29710ed8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/11/02 2:24:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, opus1100@catoe.org writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The grieving widow =   <BR>generally has other matters of a graver concern such as were did the = old <BR>codger hide his money. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>But there are very often other relatives who are anxious to be "nice" = to the deceased to make up for prior neglect. &nbsp;&nbsp;Funerals can be = as trying as weddings. &nbsp;The main difference is that there is no = rehearsal for a funeral, unless you count the "wake." <BR> <BR> &nbsp;<I><A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit &nbsp;<I><A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> </I>and meet = the Baskerbeagles: &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi </FONT></HTML>   --part1_d3.4c8c32a.29710ed8_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: fees From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:16:52 EST     --part1_e4.20e34a46.297112b4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/11/02 9:23:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, TheShieling@xtra.co.nz writes:     > So, please, let's not talk as if clergy swan around in luxury compared = with > poor organists. They don't, not here in NZ. >   Well... at least you had $34,000/year and a house to live in. Organist's =   don't get that! (sigh)   <A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit <A HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> = and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi   --part1_e4.20e34a46.297112b4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/11/02 9:23:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, TheShieling@xtra.co.nz writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">So, please, let's = not talk as if clergy swan around in luxury compared with <BR>poor organists. They don't, not here in NZ. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Well... at least you had $34,000/year and a house to live in. = &nbsp;&nbsp;Organist's don't get that! &nbsp;&nbsp;(sigh) <BR> <BR> &nbsp;<I><A HREF=3D"mailto:Cremona502@cs.com">Bruce Cornely</A> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit &nbsp;<I><A = HREF=3D"http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502">HowlingAcres</A> </I>and meet = the Baskerbeagles: &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi </FONT></HTML>   --part1_e4.20e34a46.297112b4_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: fees From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:54:55 +1300   The one or three professional church musicians (no more than that) in New Zealand do indeed get that sum that I was getting. Too, after 25 years in the ministry and having six lots of letters after my name, and being a professional psychologist as well as a clergyman, and running the choir through my music qualifications, and working all kinds of hours (like visiting the hospital) at times when musicians are asleep, I still don't think I was more than even very moderately paid. Ross -----Original Message----- From: Cremona502@cs.com <Cremona502@cs.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:17 PM Subject: Re: fees     In a message dated 1/11/02 9:23:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, TheShieling@xtra.co.nz writes:       So, please, let's not talk as if clergy swan around in luxury compared with poor organists. They don't, not here in NZ.       Well... at least you had $34,000/year and a house to live in. = Organist's don't get that! (sigh)   Bruce Cornely with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit HowlingAcres and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi      
(back) Subject: Off topic - plain text From: "Paul Austin" <paul-austin@ntlworld.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:12:10 -0000   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01C19B49.3751A520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Dear list,   Forgive this off topic question, but I frequently receiving emails from = =3D list members asking me to re-send my messages in 'plain text'. The =3D reason being they are apparently receiving my messages in the form of =3D attachments! I always send messages to the list by simply typing my =3D message into the box, and never use attachments. Could anyone give me =3D any clues as to why they are not being received that way??   Thankyou.   PS Anybody who can't read this attachment, let me know and I'll send it = =3D in plain text!   Paul.   paul-austin@ntlworld.com or paul_austin75@hotmail.com     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01C19B49.3751A520 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Book Antiqua">Dear list,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Book Antiqua">Forgive this off topic question, but I = =3D frequently=3D20 receiving emails from list members asking me to re-send my messages in =3D 'plain=3D20 text'.&nbsp; The reason being they are apparently receiving my messages = =3D in the=3D20 form of attachments!&nbsp; I always send messages to the list by simply = =3D typing=3D20 my message into the box, and never&nbsp;use attachments.&nbsp; Could =3D anyone give=3D20 me any clues as to why they are not being received that =3D way??</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Book Antiqua">Thankyou.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Book Antiqua">PS&nbsp; Anybody who can't read this = =3D attachment,=3D20 let me know and I'll send it in plain text!</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Book Antiqua">Paul.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Book Antiqua"><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:paul-austin@ntlworld.com">paul-austin@ntlworld.com</A> or = =3D <A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:paul_austin75@hotmail.com">paul_austin75@hotmail.com</A><B= =3D R></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01C19B49.3751A520--