PipeChat Digest #2650 - Sunday, January 13, 2002
 
Re: Unionized Musicians
  by "Richard Dostie" <rmdostie@hotmail.com>
Re: Unionized Musicians
  by "Jim" <bald1@prodigy.net>
RE: PLEASE READ Re: Off topic - plain text
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
Re: Unionized Musicians
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Unionized Musicians
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Unionized Musicians
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
copyrighted materials
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Wedding fees
  by "Mark Quarmby" <mark_quarmby@yahoo.com>
Re: Pipe Organs for CHEAP
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Totally off-topic casserole query . . .
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: Okra
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: Okra
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Unionized Musicians From: "Richard Dostie" <rmdostie@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:49:33 +0000     >From: Wurlibird1@aol.com >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org>   >Were it not for the American Federation of Musicians, there would be a = lot >of >abused musicians - and there were before it was formed. A lot of people >played for free, and that was in itself an unintended consequence. > >Best wishes, >Jim Pitts >Local 147, AFM > Amen and alleluia. The Union up our way is no longer what it once was, = but thanks to the work it did over the years it no longer needs to be. I'm 54 =   now, and I've been a working professional musician since I was 14 in a lot =   of places and contexts which are a long distance from any church. I know very well the value of the Unfair List. It's odd that it's no longer = needed in the average night club, but that it's very much needed in the church.   Richard M. Dostie St. Thomas' Church Camden, ME USA         _________________________________________________________________ Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Unionized Musicians From: "Jim" <bald1@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:09:48 -0600   Now that would just look peachy, the organist walking picket in front of = the church.   Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:32 PM Subject: Re: Unionized Musicians     > Bud asks: > > Jim > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: RE: PLEASE READ Re: Off topic - plain text From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:56:39 -0600   Of course, I tried my theory, and it didn't work. It still sends out in other formats from time to time. Go figure!   Glenda     -----Original Message----- On the newer versions of Outlook, you have to do a little more than what Malcolm said to correct the malady. Under "Tools" you have to select "Options" and "Mail Format". Not only do you need to select "Plain Text" as the setting for composition, but you need to hit the button "Internet Options" and check that you want Outlook to convert your messages to Plain Text in sending to other internet recipients.   Although I am not an internet/computer guru, I already had my setting to compose in Plain Text, but Karl wrote me with the same problem. In checking back to the subject message sent, when I typed a reply it picked up the original sender's font and style settings. I believe the extra step eliminates the problem.          
(back) Subject: Re: Unionized Musicians From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:58:47 -0800   I understand that, and I'm NOT anti-union (grin) ...   The "unintended consequence" I was referring to specifically was orchestra seating, which SHOULD be an artistic decision made by the CONDUCTOR, = possibly in consultation with the concertmaster and the principals ... but in this = country it's locked into the union contract and the seniority system, which CAN = have a negative MUSICAL effect if the conductor needs to re-shuffle the fiddles = (for instance), but isn't allowed to because of the contract and/or seniority.   As things stand now, a conductor may have to wait DECADES for players to = die or retire ... just about any orchestra you'd care to name carries a CERTAIN = amount of more-or-less "dead wood", out of loyalty or sentiment. But if they came = in as front or middle-stand players, and/or have moved UP to front or middle = stands, he can't move them to the backs of the sections, EVEN if their SALARIES = remain the same (which they should).   I know of one dear, DEAR player in a major orchestra who REALLY doesn't = belong on the stage anymore from a MUSICAL standpoint ... that conductor's solution = was to hire THREE fiddles to SURROUND him. THAT cost the orchestra a BUNDLE.   I suppose THAT brings up the issue of adequate PENSIONS and RETIREMENT = PLANS (grin).   I'm all FOR the conductor not being able to hire and fire AT WILL ... he shouldn't HAVE to if the audition process is sound. But do you see what = *I'm* driving at?   Cheers,   Bud   Wurlibird1@aol.com wrote:   > Bud asks: > > >I'm curious, Jim ... I've always been told that the union rules stop at = the > >church door, and that the union didn't feel they could effectively = unionize > >church musicians, or I would have joined YEARS ago. << > > You are correct, Bud. If church organists were AFM members we probably = would > not have these occasional groanings over stipends. But a broad brush > application of union musicians resulting in unintended consequences is > unsettling to me. The original purpose of AFM was a fair wage for = services > performed, where ever they may be performed. Its object was realized = and > musicians today benefit from that effort. > > Best wishes, > Jim > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Unionized Musicians From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:14:10 -0800   Given the spate of Guild sanctions and investigations of unfair hiring and firing practices in recent years, perhaps that's precisely what's needed.   Cheers,   Bud   Jim wrote:   > Now that would just look peachy, the organist walking picket in front of = the > church. > > Jim H > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> > To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:32 PM > Subject: Re: Unionized Musicians > > > Bud asks: > > > > Jim > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Unionized Musicians From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:40:38 EST   Bud retorts:   >I understand that, and I'm NOT anti-union (grin) ...   >The "unintended consequence" I was referring to specifically was = orchestra >seating, (snip) <<   I'm a little red-faced here, Bud, for I misunderstood your comment. Your point when further explained makes complete sense. Fiddle shuffling = should be allowed if it improves the product. I sensed your thrust was hinged on =   wages and I was wrong. You have my 99.9% apology (I never completely sell out, you know <G> )   AND FURTHERMORE;.......     Jim H. writes:   >Now that would just look peachy, the organist walking picket in front of = the >church. <<   Come on, Jim. What else would you expect from "organ-ized labor?"   Best wishes, Jim P  
(back) Subject: copyrighted materials From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 20:27:46 -0400   I just paid over $100 for a blanket fee to cover us for 2002. Anyone > who copies copyrighted materials (music, verse, text, etc) in church > bulletins, flyers or any other medium falls subject to the fees. > > Jim Pitts     But is it really blanket coverage? There is an outfit that charges that much or more but it only covers certain publishers, not all by a long = shot.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Wedding fees From: "Mark Quarmby" <mark_quarmby@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:37:44 +1100   You must be playing for the wrong church!   on 13/1/02 10:45 AM, PipeChat at pipechat@pipechat.org wrote:   > There was a discussion here on the left coast recently and an organist > from San Francisco reported that weddings there can go up to $375US     _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs for CHEAP From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:53:39 EST   You can also check with pipe organ builders in your area, or around the country. There is more than one source of vintage pipe organs out there, = not just an organ "broker." Looking in only one direction can cause you to = lose out on some amazing opportunities.   SMG  
(back) Subject: Re: Totally off-topic casserole query . . . From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:05:14 EST     --part1_8e.213abbb1.2972617a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/12/02 8:09:07 AM Central Standard Time, MFoxy9795@aol.com writes:     > adding okra by definition makes it a gumbo. > >   As if I didn't know. I make it often. Just being sure everyone knew Okra =   was being used!!! Lee   --part1_8e.213abbb1.2972617a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/12/02 8:09:07 AM Central Standard Time, MFoxy9795@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">adding okra by = definition makes it a gumbo. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>As if I didn't know. &nbsp;I make it often. &nbsp;Just being sure = everyone knew Okra was being used!!! Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_8e.213abbb1.2972617a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Okra From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:12:48 EST     --part1_51.1754cd08.29726340_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/12/02 12:48:18 PM Central Standard Time, mjolnir@ticnet.com writes:     > Am I missing something crucial? I always thought "okra" _WAS_ a four > letter word!! > >   I think it has to do with the connotation. Lee   --part1_51.1754cd08.29726340_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/12/02 12:48:18 PM Central Standard Time, mjolnir@ticnet.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Am I missing = something crucial? &nbsp;I always thought "okra" _WAS_ a four <BR>letter word!! <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I think it has to do with the connotation. &nbsp;Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_51.1754cd08.29726340_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Okra From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:15:09 EST     --part1_17a.20a9c2a.297263cd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/12/02 12:57:34 PM Central Standard Time, opus1100@catoe.org writes:     > How did OKRA manage to migrate onto this list....thought it was an > exclusive province of that 'other' list and definitely off-topic = here....I > guess unless it was grown organically... > > jch > > >   On my honor, I will try never to bring up the subject again. Sorry. (It = must be organically grown.) Lee   --part1_17a.20a9c2a.297263cd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/12/02 12:57:34 PM Central Standard Time, opus1100@catoe.org writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">How did OKRA = manage to migrate onto this list....thought it was an <BR>exclusive province of that 'other' list and definitely off-topic = here....I <BR>guess unless it was grown organically... <BR> <BR>jch <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>On my honor, I will try never to bring up the subject again. = &nbsp;Sorry. (It must be organically grown.) Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_17a.20a9c2a.297263cd_boundary--