PipeChat Digest #2944 - Tuesday, July 2, 2002
 
Rapidly failed console
  by "Scott Rollins" <srollins@primus.ca>
Robert Morton
  by "Berley Antoine Firmin II" <FIRMAN1@prodigy.net>
Re: Rapidly failed console
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
RE: Rapidly failed console
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
RE: Extension question
  by <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk>
Re: Extension question
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Annapolis Organ Co.
  by "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
Re: Rapidly failed console - some suggestions
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Wurlitzer reed/electronic free
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Re: Extension question
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Sad news from Philadelphia
  by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com>
Re: Rapidly failed console
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: Rapidly failed console
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
 

(back) Subject: Rapidly failed console From: "Scott Rollins" <srollins@primus.ca> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:11:23 -0400 (EDT)   As somebody who is well aware that he knows too little about the workings of the instrument that is entrusted to me (a 2-manual electro-pneumatic Casasvant, built in 1967) or of the workings of organs in general. In short, it's like how I interact with computers...I seem to be really good at taking advantage of the features programmers and hardware designers have given me, but how it works is beyond my knowledge.   Anyway, we've been having some really hot and humid weather of late here in the Ottawa Valley. Yesterday, the thermostat was showing the temperature in the sanctuary (almost directly behind the organ bench) at 77 F. I was running later than usual, and dashed in shortly after 9 AM and ran once through O Canada (because it had been added to the service, to commemmorate Canada Day, after I had practised the hymns)...I then attended to other business, including the choir run-through/practise ont he piano in the choir room...when I returned to the sanctuary about 3 minutes before 10, trying to get onto the bench and into a prelude before the choir and minister appeared.   But, when I turned the key, nothing happened...I didn't hear the blower, but didn't realise it at the time because of the chatting in the church. But when I tried a piston, nothing moved...as usual, it doesn't clue in immediately, and I assume that the piston isn't working, so I select stops individually, which (you no doubt realise) did not produce any sound either. So, my immediate thought was a breaker tripping. I raced to the choir room to find out if somebody could direct me to the panel box. Tore downstairs, and did find, yes, a breaker tripped that was labelled "Console." Sounded promising, and nothing else appeared to be tripped, I don't think. So I raced up the stairs, hopefully, only to find that the organ still would not respond.   So, I gathered my hymnal and bulletin and hurried over to the Yamaha grand piano from which I played the service. (Which is a shame, because this was the first Sunday in ages with lots of music that was well-suited to the organ, and I'd been looking forward to using it for almost everything.)   Anyway, I went over early this morning before work (about 4 AM), hoping that it would be cooler and see whether it might work itself out...but no luck...today was a statutory holiday, so nobody was around to do anything.   So, my plan is to go over tonight or tomorrow morning, try yet again (though I doubt it will help, given that the weather has continued in the same vein). And tomorrow, ask the church secretary to call the organ tuner...please, let him not be on summer vacation.   Before we go to that...is there anything simple I should be looking into on my own?   Thanks,   Scott Rollins Organist/Choir Director Grace-St. Andrew's United Church Arnprior, Ontario    
(back) Subject: Robert Morton From: "Berley Antoine Firmin II" <FIRMAN1@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 16:49:27 -0500   The organ has worked, after a fashion, since the '80's. Dr. Barry Henry = and John Kirkpatrick, and I'm sure others, started the repairs and got a = certain percentage of it playing. Only about 80% plays today, I am told. Mr. Hiltonsmith is now working on the organ, and I am told by another list member that 90% is playing. It did not sound too good, however. Berley      
(back) Subject: Re: Rapidly failed console From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:58:02 EDT   Dear Scott Rollins:   From what you are telling me, I would say that the rectifier which supplies all the keying current, and the blower relay on switch is out of commission. It has happened to me so I know about that. It wasn't a Casavant either. If a rectifier is hit with a current spike it could send the whole unit to lala land forever. It was a month before a replacement unit of the right size could be found to replace it. All organs pipe or digital should have a line protection unit properly grounded and installed. I think your tech will find that it's the = rectifier that has gone bad. Most remote blower relay switches are on DC current.   Let me know how it turns out. If the recifier is fused it could just be a bad fuse which costs about a dollar.   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: RE: Rapidly failed console From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 18:14:52 -0400   Did you have a second look at the breaker? Perhaps after you reset it, it tripped a few seconds later while you returned to the console. I would try resetting again and watch it for a few moments to see if it stays in position. If that does not solve it, let me ( or us) know.   AjM Port Hope, Ontario   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of = Scott Rollins Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 5:11 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Rapidly failed console   As somebody who is well aware that he knows too little about the workings of the instrument that is entrusted to me (a 2-manual electro-pneumatic Casasvant, built in 1967) or of the workings of organs in general. In short, it's like how I interact with computers...I seem to be really good at taking advantage of the features programmers and hardware designers have given me, but how it works is beyond my knowledge.   Anyway, we've been having some really hot and humid weather of late here in the Ottawa Valley. Yesterday, the thermostat was showing the temperature in the sanctuary (almost directly behind the organ bench) at 77 F. I was running later than usual, and dashed in shortly after 9 AM and ran once through O Canada (because it had been added to the service, to commemmorate Canada Day, after I had practised the hymns)...I then attended to other business, including the choir run-through/practise ont he piano in the choir room...when I returned to the sanctuary about 3 minutes before 10, trying to get onto the bench and into a prelude before the choir and minister appeared.   But, when I turned the key, nothing happened...I didn't hear the blower, but didn't realise it at the time because of the chatting in the church. But when I tried a piston, nothing moved...as usual, it doesn't clue in immediately, and I assume that the piston isn't working, so I select stops individually, which (you no doubt realise) did not produce any sound either. So, my immediate thought was a breaker tripping. I raced to the choir room to find out if somebody could direct me to the panel box. Tore downstairs, and did find, yes, a breaker tripped that was labelled "Console." Sounded promising, and nothing else appeared to be tripped, I don't think. So I raced up the stairs, hopefully, only to find that the organ still would not respond.   So, I gathered my hymnal and bulletin and hurried over to the Yamaha grand piano from which I played the service. (Which is a shame, because this was the first Sunday in ages with lots of music that was well-suited to the organ, and I'd been looking forward to using it for almost everything.)   Anyway, I went over early this morning before work (about 4 AM), hoping that it would be cooler and see whether it might work itself out...but no luck...today was a statutory holiday, so nobody was around to do anything.   So, my plan is to go over tonight or tomorrow morning, try yet again (though I doubt it will help, given that the weather has continued in the same vein). And tomorrow, ask the church secretary to call the organ tuner...please, let him not be on summer vacation.   Before we go to that...is there anything simple I should be looking into on my own?   Thanks,   Scott Rollins Organist/Choir Director Grace-St. Andrew's United Church Arnprior, Ontario     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: RE: Extension question From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 01:11:01 +0100   Hello,   I think Ron Severin got it slightly wrong in quoting Tartini and = Helmholzt.....though the two names are correct for a different reason.   Abbe Vogler was interested in "difference tones" which, when two = suitable tones sounded together, made a third tone.....the idea behind = the Harmonic Bass 32ft (USUALLY 16FT AND 10.2/3FT SOUNDED TOGETHER, BUT = SOMETIMES 21.2/3 AND 16FT)and the wonderfully effective 32ft Harmonics = mixtures used by John Compton and others to suggest a 32ft reed.   Vogler relied heavily on the workings of Tartini and Helmholzt, but he = was a gifted musician and theorist in his own right.   However, the creation of "difference tones" to suggest MISSING pitches = is really quite different from extension, which merely makes economies = in the number of pipes being required to do the job.   "Reducing the number of pipes" was a Vogler idea of course, but he = merely suggested the reduction in the number of Mixture stops which he = referred to as "Mere Shrieking".=20   Regards, Colin Mitchell UK             Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK             -----Original Message----- From: "pipechat@pipechat.org" <pipechat@pipechat.org> on behalf of = "RonSeverin@aol.com" <RonSeverin@aol.com> Sent: 01 July 2002 17:07 To: "pipechat@pipechat.org" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: Extension question   Dear Robert:   The 32' Bombard extention should play through the full compass of the pedalboard just like any other extention stop. It's called an Augmented pedal division. The theory behind it is that usually single notes are played in the pedal, so a few extended ranks can fill out a pedal division without compromising polyphony as in the manuals. Throw in some 16' manual duplexes, a mixture or two for variety and you save a great deal of money on pipes. I haven't looked this up in a while but the name Helmholst and Tartini tones come to mind. Robert Hope Jones of course took this theory to its enth extreme and applied less is better to the manuals as well.   Ron Severin   "  
(back) Subject: Re: Extension question From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 20:11:03 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Extension question     > Dear Robert: > > On the manuals a single 8' stop extended to 4' will indeed lose > polyphonic notes in the middle of the chord.   To put it another way, if you play an octave, say middle c and the c = above, on two "straight ranks", 8' & 4', you will hear four pipes playing. With two extended ranks, however, the upper pipe of the 8' has top serve as the lower pipe of the 4' as well, so you will only hear three pipes instead of four. On highly unified organs this "missing pipe" problem can be quite noticeable, which is why manual extension tends to be frowned upon. In = the pedal organ, however, you are rarely playing more than one note at once, = so there is not much harm in extending, say, the 32' reed from the 16'. This is especially helpful because of the enormous cost of the big bass pipes. Sorry about those pedal octaves in the second half of the Widor Toccata = ... <g>   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Annapolis Organ Co. From: "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 22:19:46 -0300     thank you very much for looking this up for me. Annapolis Royal is like a = 2 hour drive from where I live Its nice to see that even if reed organ ,that there were builders with taste many years ago right on my doorstep practically.     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002    
(back) Subject: Re: Rapidly failed console - some suggestions From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 21:38:12 EDT     --part1_122.138a34aa.2a525e04_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Firstly, Casavant often places a "current" light on the nameboard (I am assuming that you have the "rocker"type stop controls, but even if it a drawknob style console, you will still have rockers for the couplers on = the board above the upper keyboard. Check to see if the current light comes on =   (It may not, especially if there is an air=3D-pressure switch to turn the rectifier on, this is also something that Casavant does).   The keyswitch will probably operate a remote-start swith that should be located within a feww feet of the blower. I would check:   1) make sure that ALL circuit-breakers and fuses that are supplying = current to the organ BLOWER and RECTIFIER (power supply) are on (or the fuses are = not blown). sometimes the blower and rectifier will have seperate AC power from the breaker panel (fuse box).   2) Check to see that the contactor (remote motor controller) tries to operate when the key switch is turned to the ON position. (usually you can =   hear the "THUNK" when the contactor operates, unless the blower is way far =   away from the console in a sound-proofed room) there MAY be fuses at the contactor in addition to the mains supply, if htere are, you need to have them checked also. (in the US, the electrical code requires a disconnect within 3 feet of any motor, so you should make sure that if there is a disconnect for the blower motor that it is in the ON position. some disconnects are fused, some are not. Also, if the organ is older, and installed before the disconnect was required by the prevailing code, there =   may not be one.   3) check the fuses in the rectifier (power supply) on both the INPUT = (could be either 110 or 220 volts AC) and OUTPUT (would be 10 to 15 volts DC). = Also, if you have a rectifier with snap-in diodes, you can pull them, one at a = time and check them for proper operation (if you know how to do this, OK, but = if you DON'T, leave it to the 'experts' like your organ repair person).   4) if the blower is operating, but there is no DC current, check the air-pressure switch/relay unit for proper operation. Sometimes, (but not always) the rectifier is wired in parallel to the blower mains...not a preferred method in my book.   5) check to be sure the blower has been getting regular maintenance,Casavant's smaller blowers have oil cups with wicks to get the =   oil to the bearings in the motor, and should have a few drops of oil put = in the cups ever 6 months or so. (sometimes on newer casavant organs you will =   find Laukhuff or BOBco blowers with oil pick-up rings...make sure there is =   sufficient oil levels in the wells so that the bearings get sufficient lubrication, or you will be in need of a new blower (or motor).   6) check to see that the key-switch in the console is OK...they can fail = like any other switch in an electric circuit...make sure that there is voltage = to the "supply" side of the switch if possible.     it can be hard to know what exactly the problem is without knowing exactly =   how the blower is controlled and how the rectifier is controlled, BUT = since the organ had apparently played earlier in the morning, it is more likely = to be a simple thing like a popped circuit-breaker/fuse. (either the blower current supply or the rectifier current supply would be suspect.) >Hope = this helps<   Let us know what the problem turned out to be.   Rick in VA   --part1_122.138a34aa.2a525e04_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Firstly, Casavant often = places a "current" light on the nameboard (I am assuming that you have the = "rocker"type stop controls, but even if it a drawknob style console, you = will still have rockers for the couplers on the board above the upper = keyboard. Check to see if the current light comes on (It may not, = especially if there is an air=3D-pressure switch to turn the rectifier on, = this is also something that Casavant does). <BR> <BR>The keyswitch will probably operate a remote-start swith that should = be located within a feww feet of the blower. I would check: <BR> <BR>1) make sure that ALL circuit-breakers and fuses that are supplying = current to the organ BLOWER and RECTIFIER (power supply) are on (or the = fuses are not blown). <BR>sometimes the blower and rectifier will have seperate AC power from = the breaker panel (fuse box). <BR> <BR>2) &nbsp;Check to see that the contactor (remote motor controller) = tries to operate when the key switch is turned to the ON position. = (usually you can hear the "THUNK" when the contactor operates, unless the = blower is way far away from the console in a sound-proofed room) = &nbsp;there MAY be fuses at the contactor in addition to the mains supply, = if htere are, you need to have them checked also. (in the US, the = electrical code requires a disconnect within 3 feet of any motor, so you = should make sure that if there is a disconnect for the blower motor that = it is in the ON position. some disconnects are fused, some are not. Also, = if the organ is older, and installed before the disconnect was required by = the prevailing code, there may not be one. <BR> <BR>3) check the fuses in the rectifier (power supply) on both the INPUT = (could be either 110 or 220 volts AC) and OUTPUT (would be 10 to 15 volts = DC). Also, if you have a rectifier with snap-in diodes, you can pull them, = one at a time and check them for proper operation (if you know how to do = this, OK, but if you DON'T, leave it to the 'experts' &nbsp;like your = organ repair person). <BR> <BR>4) if the blower is operating, but there is no DC current, check the = air-pressure switch/relay unit for proper operation. Sometimes, (but not = always) the rectifier is wired in parallel to the blower mains...not a = preferred method in my book. <BR> <BR>5) check to be sure the blower has been getting regular = maintenance,Casavant's smaller blowers have oil cups with wicks to get the = oil to the bearings in the motor, and should have a few drops of oil put = in the cups ever 6 months or so. (sometimes on newer casavant organs you = will find Laukhuff or BOBco blowers with oil pick-up rings...make sure = there is sufficient oil levels in the wells so that the bearings get = sufficient lubrication, or you will be in need of a new blower (or motor). <BR> <BR>6) check to see that the key-switch in the console is OK...they can = fail like any other switch in an electric circuit...make sure that there = is voltage to the "supply" side of the switch if possible. <BR> <BR> <BR>it can be hard to know what exactly the problem is without knowing = exactly how the blower is controlled and how the rectifier is controlled, = BUT since the organ had apparently played earlier in the morning, it is = more likely to be a simple thing like a popped circuit-breaker/fuse. = (either the blower current supply or the rectifier current supply would be = suspect.) &gt;Hope this helps&lt; <BR> <BR>Let us know what the problem turned out to be. <BR> <BR>Rick in VA</FONT></HTML>   --part1_122.138a34aa.2a525e04_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Wurlitzer reed/electronic free From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 22:00:24 EDT     --part1_8.289e7693.2a526338_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   FREE. I have a partially disassembled Wurlitzer reed/electronic with a separate amp/speaker cabinet. Dont' know the model # but I think it is of = @ 1960 provenance. located @ 40 miles SW of Chicago. WILL NOT SHIP so don't even ask. Must be picked up in 1 week or it goes with the house to the new =   owner. Most of it worked prior to well-meaning friend who inteded to "fix = it" about 5 years ago. Please contact me off line. Thanks and regards Dick Siegel   --part1_8.289e7693.2a526338_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>FREE. I have a = partially disassembled Wurlitzer reed/electronic with a separate = amp/speaker cabinet. Dont' know the model # but I think it is of @ 1960 = provenance. located @ 40 miles SW of Chicago. WILL NOT SHIP so don't even = ask. Must be picked up in 1 week or it goes with the house to the new = owner. Most of it worked prior to well-meaning friend who inteded to "fix = it" about 5 years ago. Please contact me off line. <BR>Thanks and regards <BR>Dick Siegel &nbsp;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_8.289e7693.2a526338_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Extension question From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:04:16 EDT   Dear Colin:   The augmented pedal division and the theory that straight stops would not be missed. The theory was that a complete pedal could be assured using extended ranks because for the most part single notes would be predominately played, so save straight ranks for the manuals. Vogler and Tartini had more in common with synthetic tone output. Helmholst was interested in augmented pedal departments where he felt straight ranks were waisted. He encouraged softer 16' manual stops to be duplexed to the pedal even soft 8' extentions. Most builders after the introduction of electricity bought into it, because for the most part Helmholst was right. It also allowed for more manual straight ranks including mixtures economy wise.   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Sad news from Philadelphia From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:34:31 EDT     --part1_17a.a9fd91a.2a527947_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hey, y'all!   Tonight at the opening service/concert, the Rev. Dr. Victoria Serota announced to the crowd that Warren Hutton suffered a heart at breakfast at =   the Pedagogy Conference and died a short while later. For those of you who =   weren't privileged to know him, Warren Hutton has been organ professor at = the University of Alabama for over 40 years. Even in official retirement from = the University, he continued to teach. He was a brilliant teacher. I knew = Warren well and I'm know he was happiest when he was with organists, organ = students and organ builders.   RIP dear Warren.   Yours,   Darryl by the Sea   --part1_17a.a9fd91a.2a527947_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hey, y'all! <BR> <BR>Tonight at the opening service/concert, the Rev. Dr. Victoria Serota = announced to the crowd that Warren Hutton suffered a heart at breakfast at = the Pedagogy Conference and died a short while later. For those of you who = weren't privileged to know him, Warren Hutton has been organ professor at = the University of Alabama for over 40 years. Even in official retirement = from the University, he continued to teach. He was a brilliant teacher. I = knew Warren well and I'm know he was happiest when he was with organists, = organ students and organ builders. <BR> <BR>RIP dear Warren. <BR> <BR>Yours, <BR> <BR>Darryl by the Sea</FONT></HTML>   --part1_17a.a9fd91a.2a527947_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Rapidly failed console From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 01:03:11 -0400   Dear Scott,   I hope you can get away nest week to travel to Hamilton on Tuesday or Wednesday evening to her Felix Hell in concert. He is playing both nights ( different programs) and you can check the programs in detail at Http://www.brottmusic.com   There wil be several "pipechatters" there - hope you can join us !     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY     On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Scott Rollins <srollins@primus.ca> writes: > As somebody who is well aware that he knows too little about the > workings > of the instrument that is entrusted to me (a 2-manual > electro-pneumatic > Casasvant, built in 1967) or of the workings of organs in general. > In > short, it's like how I interact with computers...I seem to be really > good >   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.  
(back) Subject: Re: Rapidly failed console From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:58:50 -0400   Dear Scott, Online troubleshooting is a little hairy at best, but here's is something to look for.....   If the instrument is "older" it may not have a rectifier - it might still have a generator for the 12 V (DC) necessary for the console and relays.   These generators were most often driven off the blower. Since you don't have any blower power, I would look for breakers ( or fuses) connected to the Blower motor !     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY     n Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Scott Rollins <srollins@primus.ca> writes: > As somebody who is well aware that he knows too little about the > workings > of the instrument that is entrusted to me (a 2-manual > electro-pneumatic > Casasvant, built in 1967) or of the workings of organs in general. > In > short, it's like how I interact with computers...I seem to be really > good > at taking advantage of the features programmers and hardware > designers > have given me, but how it works is beyond my knowledge. >   > But, when I turned the key, nothing happened...I didn't hear the > blower, > but didn't realise it at the time because of the chatting in the > church. > But when I tried a piston, nothing moved...as usual, it doesn't clue > in > immediately, and I assume that the piston isn't working, so I select > stops > individually, which (you no doubt realise) did not produce any > sound > either. So, my immediate thought was a breaker tripping. I raced > to the > choir room to find out if somebody could direct me to the panel box. > Tore > downstairs, and did find, yes, a breaker tripped that was labelled > "Console." Sounded promising, and nothing else appeared to be > tripped, I > don't think. So I raced up the stairs, hopefully, only to find that > the > organ still would not respond. > >   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.