PipeChat Digest #2882 - Monday, June 3, 2002
 
Pat & Ian....the differences!
  by <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk>
Re: Pat & Ian....the differences!
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: Pat & Ian....the differences!
  by <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk>
Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Our Lady of Mount Virgin Church, Garfield, NJ
  by "Marika E. Buchberger, LRPS" <marika57@earthlink.net>
Copland use of Shaker tune
  by <patmai@juno.com>
Ballroom Kimball (cross posted)
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: St. Andrew's, New Orleans
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
ChurchCrawling
  by "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
here is the address to Church Crawling
  by "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
 

(back) Subject: Pat & Ian....the differences! From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:19:18 +0100   Hello,   Four quite difficult and involved questions there!   Firstly.....Classical sound, by which we must assume "Baroque" rather = than the "Classical Period".=20   The essential ingredient in the "classical organ" is the system we know = as "werkprinzip" (Working principles). The most important stops of the = organ are known as "Principals"....the tone normally associated with the = sound of the organ. If each department has a "Principal" rank at a = different pitch to the next then, by definition, the tonal quality of = each department will be completely different. Let's put it another way!   If you have three brass instruments sitting in different locations; a = Trombone, a Trumpet and a Picollo Trumpet, but each needs to have its = own seperate ensemble, then the Picollo Trumpet would require = fundamental tones provided by, for example,a Flute and a Bassoon. The = normal Trumpet would require a Picollo above, and perhaps a Cello = beneath. The Trombone ensemble would require perhaps a Horn and a Violin = above it.   That's the principle......complete ensembles, but with totally different = tonal characteristics, which nevertheless, can all combine to make an = effective "tutti".   John Bertsinger pointed out ( with remarkable brevity!) the differences = in the "voicing" of the pipes. He is, of course, quite correct.....but = there is an important point here. The quest for the "Romantic Organ" = began even as early as the Baroque, and got into its stride around the = time of Abbe Vogler....a theorist and musician who wanted to create a = more "symphonic" type of instrument. So organ builders increased the = "scale" of the pipes; especially the bass pipes. The result was a vast = increase in fundamental tone; thus shifting the tone qualities away from = a "balanced" sound (such as the Baroque Orchestra and the Consort of = Viols) towards a weightier sound more akin to the full Symphony = Orchestra of Wagner, with masses of heavy toned bass instruments.   The came the expression pedal controlling a set of venetian shutters = fitted to the side of a cabinet enclosure known as the "Swell = Box".......this made delicate expression a possibility.   The final development saw the organ develop into a "one man orchestra", = where specific imitative voices were developed. These included = Orchestral Oboes, Clarinets, Tubas (there is a joke!), Orchestral Flutes = and various absurd attempts at the creation of organ pipe string-tone = (which sounds nothing like proper string tone).   The ultimate development of this is seen in the beautiful, but very = specialised "Theatre Organs" best represented by the Wurlitzer name, but = these organs were a further development of "Fair Organs" ("Band Organs" = in America) but played from proper keyboards rather than automatic mechanisms = operated by paper rolls or punched cardboard books similar in operation = to the Jacquard Loom.   The story of how organ pipe voicing arrived at this end is far too = complex a matter to write about here.......some organ builders have = studied it for a life time and never been able to master it!   I hope this helps a little, but if Pat and Ian wish to know more, I = would be happy to e-mail them a few choice sections of my "tome" which = will explain all in considerable depth.   I will now get on and make my Sunday Lunch!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK -----Original Message----- From: "pat and ian" <patian@senet.com.au> Subject: Differences   What are the differences to listen for in the sound of a =20 1. Classical organ?   2. Romantic organ?   3. German voicing?   4. English voicing?  
(back) Subject: Re: Pat & Ian....the differences! From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:04:53 -0400   Dear Colin, I belive that it is possible to create a romantic or French type = organ from a theatre organ more easily than create a "Romantic" or symphony = organ from a classically voiced or classical stop organ. I feel that the theatre organ without trems and the proper stop choice could pass for a French romantic organ much easier. Sincerely, Paul P. Valtos ----- Original Message ----- From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 8:19 AM Subject: Pat & Ian....the differences!     Hello,   Four quite difficult and involved questions there!   Firstly.....Classical sound, by which we must assume "Baroque" rather than the "Classical Period".   The essential ingredient in the "classical organ" is the system we know as "werkprinzip" (Working principles). The most important stops of the organ are known as "Principals"....the tone normally associated with the sound = of the organ. If each department has a "Principal" rank at a different pitch = to the next then, by definition, the tonal quality of each department will be completely different. Let's put it another way!   If you have three brass instruments sitting in different locations; a Trombone, a Trumpet and a Picollo Trumpet, but each needs to have its own seperate ensemble, then the Picollo Trumpet would require fundamental = tones provided by, for example,a Flute and a Bassoon. The normal Trumpet would require a Picollo above, and perhaps a Cello beneath. The Trombone = ensemble would require perhaps a Horn and a Violin above it.   That's the principle......complete ensembles, but with totally different tonal characteristics, which nevertheless, can all combine to make an effective "tutti".   John Bertsinger pointed out ( with remarkable brevity!) the differences in the "voicing" of the pipes. He is, of course, quite correct.....but there = is an important point here. The quest for the "Romantic Organ" began even as early as the Baroque, and got into its stride around the time of Abbe Vogler....a theorist and musician who wanted to create a more "symphonic" type of instrument. So organ builders increased the "scale" of the pipes; especially the bass pipes. The result was a vast increase in fundamental tone; thus shifting the tone qualities away from a "balanced" sound (such = as the Baroque Orchestra and the Consort of Viols) towards a weightier sound more akin to the full Symphony Orchestra of Wagner, with masses of heavy toned bass instruments.   The came the expression pedal controlling a set of venetian shutters = fitted to the side of a cabinet enclosure known as the "Swell Box".......this = made delicate expression a possibility.   The final development saw the organ develop into a "one man orchestra", where specific imitative voices were developed. These included Orchestral Oboes, Clarinets, Tubas (there is a joke!), Orchestral Flutes and various absurd attempts at the creation of organ pipe string-tone (which sounds nothing like proper string tone).   The ultimate development of this is seen in the beautiful, but very specialised "Theatre Organs" best represented by the Wurlitzer name, but these organs were a further development of "Fair Organs" ("Band Organs" in America) but played from proper keyboards rather than automatic mechanisms operated by paper rolls or punched cardboard books similar in operation to the Jacquard Loom.   The story of how organ pipe voicing arrived at this end is far too complex = a matter to write about here.......some organ builders have studied it for a life time and never been able to master it!   I hope this helps a little, but if Pat and Ian wish to know more, I would = be happy to e-mail them a few choice sections of my "tome" which will explain all in considerable depth.   I will now get on and make my Sunday Lunch!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK -----Original Message----- From: "pat and ian" <patian@senet.com.au> Subject: Differences   What are the differences to listen for in the sound of a   1. Classical organ?   2. Romantic organ?   3. German voicing?   4. English voicing?   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 06:54:09 -0700   St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church 2300 Ford Road (at Bonita Canyon & Prairie Roads) Newport Beach CA USA   Sung Holy Communion at 9:00   Voluntary - Adoro Te - Titcomb Processional Hymn - The Word of God Proceeding Forth - Mechlin chant Setting - Willan/Scottish Chant Gradual Canticle - Benedictus es, Domine - Anglican Chant Offertory Anthem - God So Loved The World - Stainer Communion Anthem - Ave verum corpus - Elgar Hymn - Humbly I Adore Thee - Gregorian Orison - Day By Day - Sumner Recessional Hymn - Now, My Tongue, The Mystery Telling - St. Thomas Voluntary - Improvisation on "St. Thomas"   High Mass at 11:00   Voluntary - Adoro Te - Titcomb Processional Hymn - The Word of God Proceeding Forth - Mechlin chant Introit - Cibavit eos - Dr. Willan Setting - Merbecke/Scottish Chant Gradual - Oculi omnium - Dr. Willan Alleluia - Caro mea - Dr. Willan (Sequence omitted) Offertory Verse - Sacerdotes Domini - Dr. Willan Solo - O Divine Redeemer - Gounod Communion Verse - Quotiescumque - Gregorian, Mode 8 Solo - Panis angelicus - Franck Hymn - Humbly I Adore Thee - Gregorian Orison - Day By Day - Sumner Recessional Hymn - Now, My Tongue, The Mystery Telling - St. Thomas Voluntary - Improvisation on "St. Thomas"   No procession, YET ... we're working on it (grin).   Cheers,   Bud  
(back) Subject: RE: Pat & Ian....the differences! From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:52:25 +0100     Hello,   Absolutely Paul....my point exactly! Carlo Curley and Lynn Larsen did a = fine CD together, and Carlo played French music to great effect on a = Wurlitzer.   Quite what the purists made of the Chrysaglott in a Bach Trio Sonata, = history does not record!   A delight!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       Paul Voiltas wrote:-     Dear Colin, I belive that it is possible to create a romantic or French type = organ from a theatre organ more easily than create a "Romantic" or symphony = organ from a classically voiced or classical stop organ. I feel that the = theatre organ without trems and the proper stop choice could pass for a French romantic organ much easier.  
(back) Subject: Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted) From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:06:39 -0400   Dear Bud, Do you know what that Shaker Tune was that Copeland used in his "Appalachian Spring" and possibly where I could get a copy. Sincerely, Paul   ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> To: "+mailing list, ANGLICAN-MUSIC" <anglican-music@list.stsams.org>; "organchat" <organchat@egroups.com>; "pipechat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 9:54 AM Subject: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)     > St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church > 2300 Ford Road (at Bonita Canyon & Prairie Roads) > Newport Beach CA USA > > Sung Holy Communion at 9:00 > > Voluntary - Adoro Te - Titcomb > Processional Hymn - The Word of God Proceeding Forth - Mechlin chant > Setting - Willan/Scottish Chant > Gradual Canticle - Benedictus es, Domine - Anglican Chant > Offertory Anthem - God So Loved The World - Stainer > Communion > Anthem - Ave verum corpus - Elgar > Hymn - Humbly I Adore Thee - Gregorian > Orison - Day By Day - Sumner > Recessional Hymn - Now, My Tongue, The Mystery Telling - St. Thomas > Voluntary - Improvisation on "St. Thomas" > > High Mass at 11:00 > > Voluntary - Adoro Te - Titcomb > Processional Hymn - The Word of God Proceeding Forth - Mechlin chant > Introit - Cibavit eos - Dr. Willan > Setting - Merbecke/Scottish Chant > Gradual - Oculi omnium - Dr. Willan > Alleluia - Caro mea - Dr. Willan > (Sequence omitted) > Offertory > Verse - Sacerdotes Domini - Dr. Willan > Solo - O Divine Redeemer - Gounod > Communion > Verse - Quotiescumque - Gregorian, Mode 8 > Solo - Panis angelicus - Franck > Hymn - Humbly I Adore Thee - Gregorian > Orison - Day By Day - Sumner > Recessional Hymn - Now, My Tongue, The Mystery Telling - St. Thomas > Voluntary - Improvisation on "St. Thomas" > > No procession, YET ... we're working on it (grin). > > Cheers, > > Bud > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted) From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:08:24 -0400   Dear List, Could anyone tell me where I can get a copy of that Shaker Tune that Aaron Copeland used in his composition, "Appalachian Spring".Or p[ossibly just the name of the tune Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> To: "+mailing list, ANGLICAN-MUSIC" <anglican-music@list.stsams.org>; "organchat" <organchat@egroups.com>; "pipechat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 9:54 AM Subject: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)     > St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church > 2300 Ford Road (at Bonita Canyon & Prairie Roads) > Newport Beach CA USA > > Sung Holy Communion at 9:00 > > Voluntary - Adoro Te - Titcomb > Processional Hymn - The Word of God Proceeding Forth - Mechlin chant > Setting - Willan/Scottish Chant > Gradual Canticle - Benedictus es, Domine - Anglican Chant > Offertory Anthem - God So Loved The World - Stainer > Communion > Anthem - Ave verum corpus - Elgar > Hymn - Humbly I Adore Thee - Gregorian > Orison - Day By Day - Sumner > Recessional Hymn - Now, My Tongue, The Mystery Telling - St. Thomas > Voluntary - Improvisation on "St. Thomas" > > High Mass at 11:00 > > Voluntary - Adoro Te - Titcomb > Processional Hymn - The Word of God Proceeding Forth - Mechlin chant > Introit - Cibavit eos - Dr. Willan > Setting - Merbecke/Scottish Chant > Gradual - Oculi omnium - Dr. Willan > Alleluia - Caro mea - Dr. Willan > (Sequence omitted) > Offertory > Verse - Sacerdotes Domini - Dr. Willan > Solo - O Divine Redeemer - Gounod > Communion > Verse - Quotiescumque - Gregorian, Mode 8 > Solo - Panis angelicus - Franck > Hymn - Humbly I Adore Thee - Gregorian > Orison - Day By Day - Sumner > Recessional Hymn - Now, My Tongue, The Mystery Telling - St. Thomas > Voluntary - Improvisation on "St. Thomas" > > No procession, YET ... we're working on it (grin). > > Cheers, > > Bud > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Our Lady of Mount Virgin Church, Garfield, NJ From: "Marika E. Buchberger, LRPS" <marika57@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:37:35 -0400   Here's some new images from a church right here in Garfield, NJ. Hope you all enjoy them.   Click on any image to see a larger version of the image.   http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=3D153734   -- ***************************************************** Healthcare references for everyone. "Recipient of the year 2000 Featured Site Award at healthAtoZ.com" http://home.earthlink.net/~marika57/m_erika.html   Internet Safety Lessons. Must reading for everyone. http://home.earthlink.net/~marika57/safetylessons.html *****************************************************      
(back) Subject: Copland use of Shaker tune From: <patmai@juno.com> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:18:44 -0400   Dear Paul and PipeChatters,   The Shaker tune used by Aaron Copland in "Appalachian Spring" is "Simple Gifts." The text begins:   `Tis the gift to be simple, `Tis the gift to be free.   A few hymnals in the 1970's (Book of Worship for Armed Forces Hymn #308, for example) picked it up with Sydney Carter's text "Lord of the Dance," but the tune definitely has distinctions from the one used by Copland.   Let us see if another PipeChatter can come up with an actual setting of "Simple Gifts" for you. There was an anthem setting of the text for Youth Choir and a few handbells.. That would require some heavy research at the office tomorrow.   Best regards to all from the windy but glorious scenic Hudson Valley, Pat Maimone III/57 Aeolian-Skinner/Moeller/Gress-Miles Post Chapel, West Point, NY patmai@juno.com yp6867@usma.edu at the office..   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.  
(back) Subject: Ballroom Kimball (cross posted) From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 15:20:34 -0400   How do we call it now? The Atlantic City Boardwalk Hall Ballroom Organ? For that matter, can we be any longer semantically correct calling the Midmer-Losh the ACCHO? How about we just call it the "LION" since it is indeed the King of Beasts. Name calling aside, can anyone tell me if there is a recording of the Ballroom Kimball made before the wires were hacked off and the relay so rudely removed? I would buy it on the spot. With Steven Smith's new book now in print and being duly ordered by me along with the "Warts and All" CD, I find myself being drawn ever deeper into the mystique of this unique place and the nearly shrine stature the Hall assumes in the American pipe organ scheme of things. Even from my rather fresh and often naive viewpoint, I wouldn't pretend to think that these 2 instruments are the world's best, or even the most historically important, but it can't be denied that they are awesome examples of the retched American excess, and that it is about time we channel some of our present day retched excess to restore and perpetuate these organs for this and future generations to understand and enjoy. I do so hope that the patrons and supporters can make this happen. I also hope that organ lovers everywhere will take the time to fill the ACCHOS membership list by sending at least the $20 regular membership dues, thereby acknowledging that even though these may not be their favorite organs, they are indeed worthy of our support as the unique examples of pipe organ history they are. No, I am not on the ACCHOS payroll, nor am I on any significant personal crusade to campaign for their support. I am merely another enthusiast of the general pipe organ community who recognizes the importance of these instruments, and wants to see them returned to their former glory, even if it's just $20 at a time.   Cheers Mike Gettelman    
(back) Subject: Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted) From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:34:09 EDT   In a message dated 6/2/02 1:16:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chercapa@enter.net writes:   << Could anyone tell me where I can get a copy of that Shaker Tune that Aaron Copeland used in his composition, "Appalachian Spring".Or p[ossibly just the name of the tune >>   "Tis the Gift to Be Simple" is the title, and I've seen it in a number of hymnals, anthologies, song books, etc. It shouldn't be too difficult to locate the music to it.  
(back) Subject: Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 18:12:06 -0400   On 6/2/02 1:06 PM, "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> wrote:   > Dear Bud, > Do you know what that Shaker Tune was that Copeland used in his > "Appalachian Spring" and possibly where I could get a copy. > Sincerely, > Paul > Isn't it called "Simple Gifts"?--and begins, "'Tis a gift to be simple, 'tis a gift to be . . . "   Any search engine for Aaron Copeland or "Simple Gifts" will give you everything, I think.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted) From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:26:13 -0400   To all, I want to thank all the help I received in finding the web site with the Shaker Tune. I was practicing a few days ago and for some reason, I started improvising on that melody. Once I left the bench I unfortunately could not remember the tune. My brain must be wired strangely because that happens frequently.Once I relax and unwind on the organ bench, I just go into some kind of semi trance and play and improvise. Well that's some of the least wacky things I've done in my life so I guess that's not too bad. Again, Thanks. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <ContraReed@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)     > In a message dated 6/2/02 1:16:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > chercapa@enter.net writes: > > << Could anyone tell me where I can get a copy of that Shaker Tune that > Aaron Copeland used in his composition, "Appalachian Spring".Or = p[ossibly > just the name of the tune >> > > "Tis the Gift to Be Simple" is the title, and I've seen it in a number = of > hymnals, anthologies, song books, etc. It shouldn't be too difficult to > locate the music to it. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: St. Andrew's, New Orleans From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:44:29 EDT   rredman@imagin.net wrote:       > I will be in New Orleans next week, but I have already > said all I will say > about the matter.=A0 You must understand that I know > quite a bit more, but > this is not the forum! > Roy   Awwww, come on, Roy, DO dish! We won't tell! :-)  
(back) Subject: ChurchCrawling From: "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:57:37 -0300   Here is a link to A Church somewhere over in England, I came accross this = on the Church Crawling page. Check it out It shows a Chancel Organ ravaged by woodworm ,and an 18th century = Chamber organ and another Walker Organ pretty interesting Check out the site, maybe even join it, there is occasionally Organs on = the Church Picture chat list http://www.northwales.org.uk/ccc/pictures.htm     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 5/24/2002    
(back) Subject: here is the address to Church Crawling From: "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:00:56 -0300   http://members.aol.com/pmdraper10/homepage.htm     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 5/24/2002