PipeChat Digest #2883 - Tuesday, June 4, 2002
 
werk-prinzp
  by "Wayne Grauel" <wayne@eminent-usa.com>
Re: ChurchCrawling
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Re: Italian organ music
  by <FLTim@aol.com>
RE: werk-prinzp
  by <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk>
RE: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted)
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
RE: Pat & Ian....the differences!
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
RE: Pat & Ian....the differences!
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Baroque v Romantic scaling etc
  by <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk>
Atlantic City: Stephen Smith's Book, at last!
  by "William T. Van Pelt" <bill@organsociety.org>
Magnificat & Nunc Dimittis; Great Cathedral Anthems
  by "William T. Van Pelt" <bill@organsociety.org>
JOKE...
  by "Marika E. Buchberger, LRPS" <marika57@earthlink.net>
Re: here is the address to Church Crawling
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: JOKE...
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: ChurchCrawling
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
NZAO Congress
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
 

(back) Subject: werk-prinzp From: "Wayne Grauel" <wayne@eminent-usa.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 06:07:40 -0400   It Was Said....   ----------------------------------------------   "The essential ingredient in the "classical organ" is the system we know as "werkprinzip" (Working principles). The most important stops of the organ are known as "Principals"....the tone normally associated with the sound of the organ. If each department has a "Principal" rank at a different pitch to the next then, by definition, the tonal quality of each department will be completely different. Let's put it another way!"     That's the principle......complete ensembles, but with totally different tonal characteristics, which nevertheless, can all combine to make an effective "tutti". --------------------------------------------------   I believe I am missing something hear or I am mis-reading you?     Werk-prinzp has nothing to do with working principles, or complete ensembles with different characters...   This is a term later used for the concept of 17th C. Organ Building in Northern Europe where as the organ was built with each division in a specific location in the organ's facade.   For Example... Hoofdwerk Zwelwerk Brustwerk   Wayne Grauel    
(back) Subject: Re: ChurchCrawling From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 06:01:10 -0500   re: the northwales "ChristChurch", as it's designated in the photos and info for the link mentioned is quite startling to view. It makes me wonder if we won't be finding many buildings in the U.S.A. like this in a few years, with the advent of all the Mega Churches and the falling of traditional institutions (main line, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodism, etc.)   Also wonder why people pillage pipes from organs?   Any ideas on this situation?   I realize that it's sorta off topic, but with out churches, where will organs, organists, and organbuilders be?     Jon Bertschinger Temple Organs Saint Joseph, MO (North Kansas City area)  
(back) Subject: Re: Italian organ music From: <FLTim@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:01:16 EDT   Dear Robert, You might be interested in the disc "Organi Storici D'Italia - The fabled organs of Italy." It can be found at www.lyrichord.com (LEMS-8037)   These selections are earlier than those you inquired to the list about, = but I found the recording to be quite good musically as well as conceptually interesting. The producer tried to match up compositions with organs = built in the same regions and at the same time as each particular piece.   Happy hunting, Tim Newby  
(back) Subject: RE: werk-prinzp From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:16:26 +0100   Hello,   Well....erm....yes....erm.....but "werkprinzip" grew out of a study of = ....erm.....werkprinzip organs surely? "They" didn't tell us anything = new.   I didn't want to bash out an entire breakdown of what constitutes the = "classical organ".   However, Wayne is quite right about the origin of the actual term = "werkprinzip".   I DID offer to send far more detail if required....the thing is a bit = beyond short postings to "pipechat"   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK            
(back) Subject: RE: Solemnity of Corpus Christi (X-posted) From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:47:41 -0400   Dear Bud:   Have you ever heard of a hymn (in the loose sense of the term) called = "Clear vault of heaven"? No one remembers who wrote either the text or the = music, so the bulletin calls it "traditional". I would guess it dates from the early 20th century.   We sing this love song to the Sacrament at S. Clement's every year on = Corpus Christi, and I always look forward to it even though the music (in 6/8 = time) is, in a childlike way, *very* schmaltzy. It's probably the most out of keeping with the general tenor of the music program of anything we do all year. During the annual "torchlit reception in the garden" after Corpus Christi evening mass, the new assistant organist, a friend, said that (although I'm sure he likes it, too) it reminds him of something you might hear at a skating rink; and someone else recalls that a few years ago, = when we had an interim organist not quite so talented as Peter Richard Conte, = it came out sounding like the music from a carousel. Perhaps the key to getting it right is a slow tempo. Nevertheless it is a favorite of every Clementine I know. In fact, it's one of the few hymns that usually move me to tears. Funny thing, the melody soars up to F in the refrain, higher = than a congregation is supposed to be able to sing, but one doesn't feel that = it is too high and it comes out amazingly effortless.   I managed to snag a copy of the music and would be glad to send a = photocopy to you if you are interested (or even curious).   Paul Emmons    
(back) Subject: RE: Pat & Ian....the differences! From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:56:54 -0400   >So organ builders increased the "scale" of the pipes; especially the bass pipes.   But wasn't the romantic period characterized by slower halving ratios-- in other words, relatively larger scaling of the trebles, in service of a melody-accompaniment concept at the expense of a contrapuntal concept?   You mentioned Vogler as an apostle of romantic rather than classical tonal ideals. It seems to me that we could also name Johann Sebastian Bach. = With him, I'm sure he took classical ideals in general for granted (although = not totally doctrinaire about the Werkprinzip) and wouldn't want to see them surrendered as they would be a century and a half after his death. But he was very fond of a few things that characterized romantic organs more than classical, such as string stops.    
(back) Subject: RE: Pat & Ian....the differences! From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:04:06 -0400   >I belive that it is possible to create a romantic or French type organ from a theatre organ more easily than create a "Romantic" or symphony = organ from a classically voiced or classical stop organ. I feel that the theatre organ without trems and the proper stop choice could pass for a French romantic organ much easier.   Hector Olivera proved exactly this at Henderson High School in Delaware about a year ago. This auditorium houses a very successful organ of some fifty ranks, which is basically a theatre organ, although it is fleshed = out with resources like a full diapason chorus to mixture on the great. = Hector and many others would, consequently, object to the instrument's being = called a theatre organ in the sense of being only that. Hector's program this = time included a lot of classical repertoire such as Bach, Franck, and Vierne, = as well as a lengthy improvisation. You knew you weren't at S. Clothilde, = but it was an exciting program.   Paul  
(back) Subject: Baroque v Romantic scaling etc From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:41:13 +0100   Hello,   I will have to give this some thought, but I think the exact opposite is = true. Romantic instruments usually have smaller trebles and quicker = progressions surely? It is often said that Willis diapason trebles are` = more akin to string pipes than diapasons, and blown quite hard.   The use of an "addition constant" usually ensured that trebles did not = become too small as the scales halved.   The "Topfer straight line Scaling" popular in early German Romanticism = was, if anything, a little too quick to avoid thin, scratchy trebles. To = overcome this, very generous bass-end diameters were used.....hence the = huge scales of Schulze basses.   The comment about Bach "strings" is interesting.....the early strings = associated with the Thuringian area in which Bach lived, were very nild = strings in the gentle Salicional mould. It took the invention of the = "freine harmonique" before very narrow string pipes could be made to = speak properly. For that, we must be grateful to the Fair Organ maker, = Gavioli et Cie (Paris)....a long time after Bach's death.   Perhaps the most "romantic" element in Bach is the regional familiarity = with powerful 16ft pleno choruses....the richness of Thuringian organs = which, long before true romanticism, had great grandeur and gravity.   A far cry from the organs of Schnitger!   We also know that Bach admired the organs of Silbermann; nothing more = than French Organs with a proper pedal chorus. So Bach would certainly = have enjoyed the cvolourful solo possibilities of mutations and = wide-scaled flutes.   The problem is, to fully investigate what Paul stated, I would have to = plough through a lot of archive stuff to achieve very little....are = there any pipe-scale experts who could help us out on this one please?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   -----Original Message----- From: "pipechat@pipechat.org" <pipechat@pipechat.org> on behalf of = "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Sent: 03 June 2002 15:56 To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: RE: Pat & Ian....the differences!   >So organ builders increased the "scale" of the pipes; especially the = bass pipes.=20   But wasn't the romantic period characterized by slower halving ratios-- = in other words, relatively larger scaling of the trebles, in service of a melody-accompaniment concept at the expense of a contrapuntal concept?   You mentioned Vogler as an apostle of romantic rather than classical = tonal ideals. It seems to me that we could also name Johann Sebastian Bach. = With him, I'm sure he took classical ideals in general for granted (although = not totally doctrinaire about the Werkprinzip) and wouldn't want to see them surrendered as they would be a century and a half after his death. But = he was very fond of a few things that characterized romantic organs more = than classical, such as string stops.     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Atlantic City: Stephen Smith's Book, at last! From: "William T. Van Pelt" <bill@organsociety.org> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:17:32 -0400   Congratulations to Stephen D. Smith and the Atlantic City Convention Hall Organ Society on the publication of "Atlantic City's Musical Masterpiece, The Story of the World's Largest Pipe Organ."   We received our first shipment of the book today and it is impressive. I can't wait to read its 523 pages (hardbound). But, business first: it is now available for immediate shipment at http://www.ohscatalog.org on the opening page, $46.   Bill    
(back) Subject: Magnificat & Nunc Dimittis; Great Cathedral Anthems From: "William T. Van Pelt" <bill@organsociety.org> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:34:43 -0400   Over several years the British Priory label has produced 21 CDs containing settings in the Anglican tradition of the Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis in = a series of the same name. Now, all 21 CDs are available in a box for $147. They're also available singly for $12.98. One of the CDs is recorded at = St. Thomas Church, New York; the rest are in famous British cathedrals and churches. Almost all of the settings have organ accompaniment, of course.   Priory has also done the same thing with their wonderful series of 12 CDs = in the Great Cathedral Anthems series. The box is $89.98. Priory's box of 10 CDs of the Psalms of David has a newly lowered price of $75.   All are under "ChoralCDs" at http://www.ohscatalog.org    
(back) Subject: JOKE... From: "Marika E. Buchberger, LRPS" <marika57@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:29:15 -0400   Give Us This Day Our Daily Chicken   The CEO of Tyson Foods manages to arrange a meeting with the Pope at the Vatican. After receiving the papal blessing, he whispers, "Your eminence, we have an offer for you. Tyson Foods is prepared to donate $100 million dollars to the church if you change the Lord's Prayer from 'give us this day our daily bread' to 'give us this day our daily chicken.'   The Pope responds, "That is impossible. The Prayer is the word of the Lord - it must not be changed."   "Well," says the Tyson man, "we anticipated your reluctance. For this reason, we will increase our offer to $300 million dollars. All we require is that you change the Lord's Prayer from 'give us this day our daily bread' to 'give us this day our daily chicken.' Again, the Pope replies, "That, my son, is impossible. For the prayer is the word of the Lord and it must not be changed."   Finally, the Tyson guy says, "Your Holiness, we at Tyson Foods respect your adherence to your faith, but we do have one final offer. We will donate $500 million dollars - that's half a billion dollars - to the great Catholic Church if you would only change the Lord's Prayer from 'give us this day our daily bread' to 'give us this day our daily chicken.' Please consider it." And he leaves.   The next day the Pope convenes the College of Cardinals. "There is some good news," he announces, "and some bad news."   "The good news is that the Church has come into $500 million dollars."   "And the bad news, your eminence?" asks a Cardinal.   "We're losing the Wonderbread account."       -- ***************************************************** Healthcare references for everyone. "Recipient of the year 2000 Featured Site Award at healthAtoZ.com" http://home.earthlink.net/~marika57/m_erika.html   Internet Safety Lessons. Must reading for everyone. http://home.earthlink.net/~marika57/safetylessons.html *****************************************************      
(back) Subject: Re: here is the address to Church Crawling From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:49:12 -0400   On 6/2/02 10:00 PM, "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:   > http://members.aol.com/pmdraper10/homepage.htm >=20 >=20 > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 5/24/2002 >=20 >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >=20 Phil Draper:   I want to thank you for the construction of this wonderful site! I LOVED it. It' visited most of the churches you recommended, and it was a delight to see them reviewed by you. I'd change your references to "ritual" and "actual" to "liturgical" and "geographical" but that may be a linguistic convention that is between the UK and the USA (the disadvantage of which is that it "opposes" "ritual" and "reality"--I'd prefer to oppose "liturgical" with "geographical." Each is legitimate.   If you get back there, please do the Oscar Church, and Gustavus Adolphus Church;, and, in S=F6rmalm, the Norwegian Church and the Seamen's Church (or is my memory failing me on that one?).   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: JOKE... From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 20:03:45 -0400   On 6/3/02 7:29 PM, "Marika E. Buchberger, LRPS" <marika57@earthlink.net> wrote:   > "And the bad news, your eminence?"   "Holiness"?   > asks a Cardinal. > > "We're losing the Wonderbread account." > Anyway, a good story. Taken in the spirit offered. Thanks.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: ChurchCrawling From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:54:13 -0500   I visited this church in Caernarvon back in 1968, was and very interested = in the collection of organs. The eighteenth-century George Pyke chamber = organ was the gift of the Marquess of Anglesey, and was then located in a vestry or choir room off the west end of the church. It is of considerable historical interest. The Walker organ was in playing condition in those days. I am glad to hear that at least some parts of these instruments survive -- I was afraid they had gone altogether.   John Speller   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 8:57 PM Subject: ChurchCrawling     > Here is a link to A Church somewhere over in England, I came accross = this on > the Church Crawling page. > Check it out > It shows a Chancel Organ ravaged by woodworm ,and an 18th century Chamber > organ and another Walker Organ > pretty interesting > Check out the site, maybe even join it, there is occasionally Organs on the > Church Picture chat list > http://www.northwales.org.uk/ccc/pictures.htm >      
(back) Subject: NZAO Congress From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:26:40 +1200   In NZ here we have all gone home from the annual NZ Assoc. of Organists annual Congress, held from last Friday night through till about midday Monday (a three-day weekend as NZ celebrates the official Queen's Birthday state holiday on the Monday). There were about 80 of us from all over NZ, and this was the first time since the mid-1960s that the Congress has been held in the Napier/Hastings area. It was a great time not only to renew friendships, but also to make new friends. Many of us have been to Congresses since they began some 40 years ago. The Congress was formally based on Napier Cathedral, but there were plenty of side trips to organs all over the area. Musically, the Congress was one of the best ever. Not only did we have the Napier Cathedral choir under the expert direction of Gary Bowler (who also organised much of the congress) but also the Wellington Cathedral choir under Andrew Cantrill. The latter choir is soon to tour the United = Kingdom, and the UK will marvel. Absolutely wonderful choirs, both of them, and = both Gary and Drew are immensely capable organists as well. Other brilliant organists playing at the Congress included John Wells, Barry Brinson and Thomas Wilson. A feast of sheer excellence. John Wells, by the way, has been recording Bach's entire 48 on the organ = and his lecture about this was, as always with him, both very instructive, = easy to listen to, and of great musical interest. Roy Tankersley got us up to date with where he and others are in producing an educational video on the organ for use in schools. It promises to be = very very useful. The students' competition proved that there are at least several very fine young musicians playing the organ still. For most us, it was not only the Cathedral organ (19thC TCLewis rebuilt several times, last in the 1970s) that was a star attraction, but also the smaller instruments around about. Too, most of us had not seen the recent rebuild and great enlargement at Hastings Anglican by Ken Aplin of a 1907 (about then) Norman & Beard 2-m&P. Nor George Deans's uniting and enlargement of two not-very-good old unit organs into one good 2-m&P instrument at the new Roman Catholic Church in Hastings. All of us could find fault with every organ we play, but these days it is wonderful to see churches still finding the money for rebuilds and new instruments at all. Our NZ Organ Preservation Trust, which seeks to classify and protect = worthy instruments in NZ, and is at least partly under the wing of the NZAO (as mentioned above) also had its AGM. Progress is being made at getting an accurate Gazetteer of all NZ organs, though there are still a number of details to be verified or put right. At the NZAO AGM both John Wells and Paul Ellis were made Fellow of the = NZAO, making the number of Fellows just four, so it's an acknowledged = distinction amongst us here. One of the highlights (I can't list them in order as that would be impossible and invidious) was Choral Mattins on Monday morning, to = celebrate the Queen's Jubilee (50 years on the throne). We sang Handel's Zadok the Priest, lots of Stanford, grand noble hymns etc.etc. By "we" I mean about = 48 choristers of the combined Napier and Wellington Cathedrals choirs, plus another couple of dozen volunteers from the Congress. There was a large congregation as well. Napier Cathedral is only about 40 years old, but it has very good acoustics and the whole place rang with excellent singing. Of course there were other delights, like the many Art Deco buildings in superb condition in Napier and Hastings, having meals at the local = eateries, walking along the magnificent marine parade just a couple of hundred yards from the Cathedral, the usual formal/informal dinner, and so on. Even the weather kept pretty good, considering it's now winter here. Anyone I've left, it does not imply criticism of them, not at all.   It was a great Congress and next year's will be in Christchurch if folk = from overseas would like to join us.   Regards, Ross