PipeChat Digest #2907 - Friday, June 14, 2002
 
Re: Digital "voicing"
  by "Cheryl C Hart" <info@copemanhart.co.uk>
Re: Sampling versus real-time - another approach?
  by "Cheryl C Hart" <info@copemanhart.co.uk>
Re: WOV, LBW, and Luth. Liturgical Music as a Whole
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: With One Voice clarification
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: With One Voice clarification
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: With One Voice clarification
  by <DrB88@aol.com>
Re: Good, useful, fabulous, most wonderful organ websites
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: Cavaille-Coll
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: With One Voice clarification
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
RE: The Essentials of a Small Organ -  one persons's opinion
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
RE: Good, useful, fabulous, most wonderful organ websites
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: essential small organ
  by "Bruce  Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk>
re: good, useful,fabulous...
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Re: Sampling versus real-time - another approach?
  by "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com>
Kicking out the pastor (v. Long)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Digital "voicing" From: "Cheryl C Hart" <info@copemanhart.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:39:55 +0100   At 21:53 12/06/02 +0100, Colin wrote:   >This raises an interesting point.....is the digital organ actually >potentially BETTER than we give it credit for? May it be that there are = a >number of cloth-eared fools involved in certain digital organs? Indeed, >are we merely perpetuating the chronic failures of "voicers" over the >centuries; few of whom seemed to actually know what they were doing? > >Certainly, my own personal experience includes an interesting afternoon >spent at a "celebrated" digital organ makers, where it soon became >apparent that the "voicer" hadn't a clue. So I helped him to get a better =   >sound........we both learned much that day, but he really was incapable = of >"thinking out" a sound for himself and then making the organ into what he =   >wanted. > >So it rather struck me very forcibly that, irrespective of the sampled >sounds, the clever technology and sampling rates, only a good tonal = artist >can really get the results. Equally, only a true tonal artist can deliver =   >the musical goods when using pipes. > >Are they such a rare breed of people that we only ever acknowledge a >hanfdul in our own time? > >Regards, > >Colin Mitchell >UK   Colin, I wholeheartedly endorse what you say. Your questions may have = been rhetorical - but the answer to all of them can be nothing other than yes.   Best wishes,   Cheryl       http://www.copemanhart.co.uk    
(back) Subject: Re: Sampling versus real-time - another approach? From: "Cheryl C Hart" <info@copemanhart.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:40:07 +0100   Adrian, that sounds really impressive, and I'd like to hear your work.   I know from EORG-L that there are a lot of organ enthusiasts throughout = the world working with PCs and soundfonts to create their own organs because they cannot afford to buy one. If you have not already subscribed to EORG-L, then I would recommend that you do -   EORG-L: A discussion List for electronic organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.gulfcst.com/eorg-l List: mailto:eorg-l@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:EORG-LAdmin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   It's been a bit quiet over there of late, and your news would certainly = gee things up a bit.   Best wishes,   Cheryl       http://www.copemanhart.co.uk    
(back) Subject: Re: WOV, LBW, and Luth. Liturgical Music as a Whole From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:13:21 -0400   On 6/13/02 11:29 AM, "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> wrote:   > Of course, congregations vary and some are more amenable > to variety and challenge than others-- but when they take new hymns = without > complaint, what would keep them from trying a new service setting once = every > year or two? > > Do you think that rotating settings weekly is important to foster this > admirable attitude, or would it be maintained just as well by changing > monthly or with the liturgical season? > Paul:   I like (and I think most of our congregation likes) what we do from the = LBW. Third setting in Advent and Lent; second setting from September through Pentecost, with the exception of boring First Setting in boring Green seasons. In addition, lots of other variants, e.g., our cantor composes settings of the Preface, acclamations, Sanctus, etc. Boredom is the LAST thing we have to worry about. And we use a variety of other instruments: strings, woods, brass, percussion, as the budget and available talent permit.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: With One Voice clarification From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:27:48 -0400   On 6/13/02 11:18 PM, "REEDSTOP@prodigy.net" <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> wrote:   >> Sure, but the pastor of my church refuses to lead; >> he's told me several >> times all he wants is to keep his job. "Let's not >> rock the boat": his >> precise words. So you think I should step into the >> breach and risk mine? > > Wow...is it that easy for an ELCA pastor to be > removed? I know in the LCMS it takes a majority vote > by the Voters to remove a pastor, and they'd better > have good cause to do so. I would be shocked to hear > that it's easier to do so in the ELCA church. Alan?? > Removing a pastor excerpt for moral turpitude or false doctrine is not something that's come up in my acquaintance for along time (decades at the very least). Or even FOR those reasons! I think it would take a lot more than a "majority vote." I think the pastor spoken of is either paranoid = or gutless or both.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: With One Voice clarification From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:32:05 -0400   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3106891925_1808517 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   On 6/14/02 12:12 AM, "DrB88@aol.com" <DrB88@aol.com> wrote:   > Was it Garrison Keillor who said that one "needed to be an octopus to be = =3D an > Episcoplian"??!! I loved that line!! :-) >=3D20 The way I heard that quote, David, was that he was Episcopalian for a = while=3D , but went back to being a Lutheran because he just wasn=3DB9t ambidextrous = enoug=3D h to be an Episcopalian. (I heard it from the pulpit just last Sunday, from = =3D a pastor of major Minnesota roots.)   Alan   --B_3106891925_1808517 Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: With One Voice clarification</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman">On 6/14/02 12:12 AM, = &quot;DrB88@aol.com&quot;=3D &lt;DrB88@aol.com&gt; wrote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial">Was it = Garrison Keillo=3D r who said that one &quot;needed to be an octopus to be an = Episcoplian&quot;=3D ??!! &nbsp;I loved that line!! &nbsp;:-)<BR> <BR> </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial">The = way I hear=3D d that quote, David, was that he was Episcopalian for a while, but went = back=3D to being a Lutheran because he just wasn&#8217;t ambidextrous enough to = be =3D an Episcopalian. &nbsp;(I heard it from the pulpit just last Sunday, from = a =3D pastor of major Minnesota roots.)<BR> <BR> Alan</FONT></FONT> </BODY> </HTML>     --B_3106891925_1808517--    
(back) Subject: Re: With One Voice clarification From: <DrB88@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:57:02 EDT     --part1_6f.28f177c1.2a3b502e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Thanks for the clarification, Alan!!   David   --part1_6f.28f177c1.2a3b502e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Thanks for the clarification, Alan!!<BR> <BR> David</FONT></HTML>   --part1_6f.28f177c1.2a3b502e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Good, useful, fabulous, most wonderful organ websites From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:33:01 -0500   HTTP://www.imagin.net/~rredman   DarrylbytheSea@aol.com wrote:   > Hi, Y'all! > > I've been asked to provide the handout on the organ-related internet = websites > for the Rochester POE in July. David Scribner has shared his very = excellent > handout from the recnet Pipes, Pizza, etc., event in Little Rock, but I > thought perhaps you might have others I'm not aware of. Perhaps a list = exists > somewhere "out there" in cyberworld. > > If you send the names to me privately (or not so privately!) I'll make = an > electronic compilation to share with the lists. > > As always, I'm in your debt! > > Yours, > > Darryl by the Sea > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Cavaille-Coll From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:41:38 -0400   on 6/13/02 11:28 PM, Jim Hailey at jhaileya10@charter.net wrote:   > Cavaille-Coll > > How about one heck of an organ? > > Jim H   Oui, oui, oui!     Randy Runyon runyonr@muohio.edu Department of French and Italian Miami University (Oxford, OH 45056, USA)    
(back) Subject: Re: With One Voice clarification From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:54:30 -0400   on 6/14/02 9:27 AM, Alan Freed at acfreed0904@earthlink.net wrote:   > On 6/13/02 11:18 PM, "REEDSTOP@prodigy.net" <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> = wrote: > >>> Sure, but the pastor of my church refuses to lead; >>> he's told me several >>> times all he wants is to keep his job. "Let's not >>> rock the boat": his >>> precise words. So you think I should step into the >>> breach and risk mine? >> >> Wow...is it that easy for an ELCA pastor to be >> removed? I know in the LCMS it takes a majority vote >> by the Voters to remove a pastor, and they'd better >> have good cause to do so. I would be shocked to hear >> that it's easier to do so in the ELCA church. Alan?? >> > Removing a pastor excerpt for moral turpitude or false doctrine is not > something that's come up in my acquaintance for along time (decades at = the > very least). Or even FOR those reasons! I think it would take a lot = more > than a "majority vote." I think the pastor spoken of is either paranoid = or > gutless or both. > > Alan   Alan, are you speaking from a LCMS perspective, or an ELCA one? I've only been at this church for one year, and I don't yet know how tenuous an ELCA pastor's post may be. I'm only going by what my pastor told me. This church has a history of strife over the past decade that they are trying = to put behind them, so everyone is concerned about losing more members. They lost about a third or more five or six years ago when the music director = and the pastor (not the current pastor--nor the current music director, obviously) had a fight and the music director left for the LCMS church across town, taking all those members with him. So I also don't want to = get in a fight with my pastor, though I would not disagree with your characterization of him (hope nobody's reading this!). At present he and = I get along pretty well, keeping our distance.   The church council recently decided to hire a guest preacher one Sunday a month because the pastor needed more time to write his sermons. What does that tell you? He was raised a Catholic, and began his theological education in a Catholic seminary, so he has probably never heard a real sermon in his life. Please don't take offense, my RC brothers and = sisters, but historically excellent preaching has been a Protestant thing.   Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: RE: The Essentials of a Small Organ - one persons's opinion From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:06:39 -0500   Rick: I love this design. Very suitable for hymns and liturgy, plenty of = options for solo work. In a nice room, it would be just right. Peter   -----Original Message----- From: RMaryman@aol.com [mailto:RMaryman@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:48 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: The Essentials of a Small Organ - one persons's opinion     In a message dated 6/13/2002 11:24:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Oboe32@aol.com writes:         500 Seat Church Acoustic of about 1 to 2 seconds Space for about 12 to 14 ranks. 15 voice choir   Lets see some stoplists...           OK... here goes...   Great Division (Expressive, if possible) 8' Principal 8 Gedeckt 8' Dulciana 4' Octave 4' Hohl Flute 2' Blockflote Mixture ll (1 1/3 and 1' breaks at appropriate places) Swell to GT 16 and 8   Swell Division 8 Viola 8 Viola Celeste 8 Flute (stoppered, perhaps a Rohr Flute, but different character from Gt. Gedeckt) 4' Spitz Principal 4 Harmonic Flute 2 2/3 Nazard (NOT a unit borrow, MUST be an independant rank) 2 Flute (could be an extension of 8' Flute but would prefer seperate rank if space/$$ permits) 8 Trompette   Pedal Division   16 Bourdon 16 Leiblich Gedeckt (12 notes ext from either gt or sw flute) 8 Octave (from Gt Principal) 8 Viola (from Swell) 8 Flute(from either Gt or Sw, depending) 4 Choral Bass 4 Flute (from gt or swell, depending) 16 Trompette(from Swell, 12 note ext.) 4 Clarion (from Swell Trompette)   SW and GT to Ped   Comments: this organ could play about anything, tho granted it is not "authentic" anything, it could be voiced with a germanic or french = "accent" and would suffice to lead congregational singing and accompany most choral anthems. I prefer to have a smallish organ under total (but seperate) expression, but great could be cantilevered from a gallery if must be for space requirements with some basses offset to the side(s) of the swell chamber in a gallery.   Rick in VA    
(back) Subject: RE: Good, useful, fabulous, most wonderful organ websites From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:55:47 -0400   Dear Darryl:   Here are a couple URLs that you probably won't want to miss:   http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/   http://www.dur.ac.uk/simon.fitzgerald/ (a member of the organ web ring)   http://www.adevnet.fr/mdupre/ (L'Association des Amis de l'Art de Marcel Dupre)   http://pseudo-poseidonios.net/tournemire/ (a site about Tournemire)   http://christian.ohn.free.fr/organ/index.html   http://www.virgilfox.com/ (why .com and not .org???)   http://www.cavaille-coll.com/   http://www.culture.fr/culture/cavaille-coll/fr/    
(back) Subject: Re: essential small organ From: "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:17:58 +0100   I see no mention of that all-purpose multi-use reed, the Cornopean, an essential component of the village organ in many UK churches. Enclosed, of course, and often the only reed. A good one can (with just a bit of imagination) do duty as everything from a Trumpet to an Oboe.   Whatever the swell contains, that it really works and does shut down to at least pp, is essential.   A celeste is, I think a luxury.   My favourite (15 stops) is the one I play every Sunday (on my website) - = it has two 4ft flutes on the Great !!   Bruce Miles     mail to:- bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk website:- http://www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk    
(back) Subject: re: good, useful,fabulous... From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:29:32 -0300     --------------69C5B65BB18B4323F156AB02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi, list!   In my bookmarks I found this URLs   Regards http://www.orgel.com/vlm/mus-e.html (Historical Organ Cases of Europe)   http://perso.club-internet.fr/smcj/bureau/biblio/   http://www.orgel.com/lib/lib-e.html   ("INSIDE ORGANS" Some illustrations/photos of historical interest )   http://musique.baroque.free.fr/constantes.html   http://musicaetmemoria.ovh.org   http://www.orgel.com/links-e.html   Regards   Domitila   --------------69C5B65BB18B4323F156AB02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> &nbsp;Hi, list! <p>In my bookmarks I found this URLs <p>Regards <br>&nbsp;<a = href=3D"http://www.orgel.com/vlm/mus-e.html">http://www.orgel.com/vlm/mus-e= .html</a>&nbsp; (Historical Organ Cases of Europe) <p>&nbsp;<a = href=3D"http://perso.club-internet.fr/smcj/bureau/biblio/">http://perso.clu= b-internet.fr/smcj/bureau/biblio/</a> <p>&nbsp;<A = HREF=3D"http://www.orgel.com/lib/lib-e.html">http://www.orgel.com/lib/lib-e= .html</A> <p>("INSIDE ORGANS" Some illustrations/photos of historical interest )<a = href=3D"http://musique.baroque.free.fr/constantes.html"></a> <p><a = href=3D"http://musique.baroque.free.fr/constantes.html">http://musique.baro= que.free.fr/constantes.html</a> <p>&nbsp;<a = href=3D"http://musicaetmemoria.ovh.org/prix-rome-1880-1889.htm">http://musi= caetmemoria.ovh.org</a><a = href=3D"http://musicaetmemoria.ovh.org/prix-rome-1880-1889.htm"></a> <p><a = href=3D"http://musicaetmemoria.ovh.org/prix-rome-1880-1889.htm">http://www.= orgel.com/links-e.html</a><a = href=3D"http://musicaetmemoria.ovh.org/prix-rome-1880-1889.htm"></a> <p>Regards <p>Domitila</html>   --------------69C5B65BB18B4323F156AB02--    
(back) Subject: Re: Sampling versus real-time - another approach? From: "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:06:26 -0500   > Adrian Nash wrote a rather lengthy response to Cheryl at Copeman Hart: > > It is astounding just how powerful a 2GHz PC is these days. The main > limitation seems to be the operating system rather than sheer processing > power in these real-time applications. Even so, Windows doesn't do too = bad > a job considering I can download my email or my wife writes a letter in > "Word" whilst I am playing my heart out with all the stops drawn - = through > headphones you understand, my wife is tolerant but not *that* tolerant! > > This is a "home grown" project borne out of an interest in this kind of > thing and a lack of budget for a really good digital organ. I've found > like many subscribers, the cheaper end of the digital organ market just > doesn't cut the mustard but yet, who has upwards of $10,000 to buy a = really > good one? Not me! I would be very interested in others comments and > suggestions. > >   Adrian I'm curious about a number of things. From what you describe you = model the synthesis to match what you sample. I don't see how that is = significantly different from sampling, you just use a different route to = get the same result.   I have a Yamaha synthesizer that does virtual modelling. It has models of = Saxophone or trumpet and then calculates what it would sound like with = variables for breath pressure and lip pressure. It's fairly realistic but = the resulting sound is very raw, imagine a Sax at 1 foot. It can be = softened by mixing in a sample and/or adding ambience. I'm a bit of a = perfectionist on reverbs because my end result is a recording not just = personal enjoyment. Really good reverbs are very processor intensive.   I also wondered if your synthesis included velocity response and attempted = to model tracker action? That would seem pretty cool, but I'd have no idea = of how to do it.   Thanks for your post it was very interesting.   Steve Chandler    
(back) Subject: Kicking out the pastor (v. Long) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:45:12 -0400   On 6/14/02 10:54 AM, "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote:   > Alan, are you speaking from a LCMS perspective, or an ELCA one?   Reasonable question. I'm ELCA, previously ALC and ELC (Norwegian, etc.) = but with some LCMS roots and sympathies. No acquaintance with the constitutions/bylaws of either organization. Saint Luke's (where I am) is an ELCA congregation, but has been served by LCMS clergy, Saint Louis-trained) exclusively for 152 years--only six pastors in all those years, so we're not in the habit of tossing them out. Saint Luke's was an "Independent" congregation until about 15 years ago, when we finally (with pastor's encouragement) decided it was time to "take a stand." It was = GOOD to be independent, because we became de facto neutral territory for = housing such inter-synodical activities as Lutheran Immigration & Refugee Service, American Lutheran Publicity Bureau, and (in wartime) Lutheran Military Service Persons' centers. It's been good.   > I've only > been at this church for one year, and I don't yet know how tenuous an = ELCA > pastor's post may be. I'm only going by what my pastor told me. This > church has a history of strife over the past decade that they are trying = to > put behind them, so everyone is concerned about losing more members. = They > lost about a third or more five or six years ago when the music director = and > the pastor (not the current pastor--nor the current music director, > obviously) had a fight and the music director left for the LCMS church > across town, taking all those members with him. So I also don't want to = get > in a fight with my pastor, though I would not disagree with your > characterization of him (hope nobody's reading this!). At present he = and I > get along pretty well, keeping our distance.   It's shameful that there should be such factionalization. I know of one case locally where the bishop sacked a pastor because of a sex problem = with a lady 30 years ago. There was strong and obvious resentment of the bishop's action among Synod clergy, and his congregation left the Synod (joining a splinter group) and re-called their pastor of quite a few = years. And (conventional wisdom among the clergy and layfolk too) the bishop was specifically because of that unelected at the next election. Our present bishop was JUST last week re-elected, and first one re-elected here in the life of the ELCA. > > The church council recently decided to hire a guest preacher one Sunday = a > month because the pastor needed more time to write his sermons.   Pathetic. At the very MOST they should of "offered" to hire a guest once = a month, if pastor wished. They've called him to preach; if he's a lousy preacher, (1) they should have known that when they called him; (2) they should just live with it; (3) it's not grounds for such action.   > What does that tell you?   > He was raised a Catholic, and began his theological > education in a Catholic seminary, so he has probably never heard a real > sermon in his life. Please don't take offense, my RC brothers and = sisters, > but historically excellent preaching has been a Protestant thing. > Five or six years ago we had a vicar (third-year seminarian out on internship preceding final year at seminary) who had previously been an RC nun. Fine lady. Now a pastor in Michigan, and I have no doubt an = excellent one. She and I were and are great pals. And she wasn't bad in the = pulpit, either. But, you know, she had VERY little acquaintance with Lutheran culture or ethos or whatever it is. She had NO acquaintance with Luther's Small Catechism, which just runs in my/our blood constantly; I quote it to myself or others every DAY! Luther's explanations of the three articles = of the Apostles' Creed rank with the finest Christian writing since 8000 = B.C.!   Next year, we got a new vicar, of course. Solid (well . . . ) Lutheran background from the Deep South. From our seminary in South Carolina. But easily as ignorant of Lutheranism (its theology, its liturgy, its music) = as Sister Rosanne had been. In fact, as a good RC, she was more of a Lutheran than a properly raised Lutheran from Georgia was. Her intellectual gifts certainly exceeded his. Now he's pastor of a parish in Washington, D.C. And I have no reason to doubt that he's a good one (not much of a = preacher, and not much of a liturgist either; but perhaps he's a giant in some other departments). Each person has his/her gifts, and his/her weaknesses, I guess.   'Nother story. An RC organization (but to some degree ecumenical) in Washington is the Liturgical Conference. (I might have the name wrong.) Fine group. Back in the 50s, they fought for liturgical reform, etc. = Head cat was the amazing Fr. Bob Hovda in those days. Along came Vatican II, pressing for better music, strong preaching, vernacular masses (the whole Lutheran reformation redux, right?). Took the wind out of LitConf sails. But OK: They jumped strongly onto social justice causes, etc. And they began to publish a "Homily Service" to which RC clergy by the zillion subscribed. Homily Service gave a bit of exegesis, and a sermon for each Sunday. You weren't supposed to just stand in the pulpit and read it, = but, as you might expect, that happened a lot. Who wrote the sermons? Several Roman priests, several Lutheran pastors, and surely some others whom I = don't recall. One prominent homilist was Richard John Neuhaus (an EXCELLENT preacher, who much later swam the Tiber and became an RC priest himself). He was a LitConf board member then. One Lutheran homily-writer was an employee of LitConf, now a semi-retired Lutheran pastor in San Francisco, and close friend of mine for now 49 years. SO: I conclude that most of = the best sermons preached in zillions of RC parishes all over the US and = Canada were written by Lutheran pastors.   Enough with this old man's memoirs.   Alan